New Law,need A Degree To Get A Wp?

[Jonson83]

Since i dont have a degree,this news has got me worrying a bit.

Whats everyone make of this?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=91224&st=0

edit:Dont ask me where those 'As' in the title came from

Edited November 3, 2006 by Jonson83

[richard10365]

I was teaching and this is one of the reasons I quit. I will try to get my degree at Payap in Chiang Mai.

[Loaded]

I was teaching and this is one of the reasons I quit. I will try to get my degree at Payap in Chiang Mai.

Don't they only do a Masters in TESOL for 'foreigners'?

Edited November 4, 2006 by Loaded

[PeaceBlondie]

At least up until now, you could sometimes get a WP without a degree. Maybe this is a change. It may not be a law, or a new law. It usually depends on the relationship between your employer and the provincial MoE.

Maybe it's just a flash in the pan that will quickly disappear. Or maybe many farang TEFLers will quickly disappear.

[toptuan]

Our home countries wouldn't allow us to teach without a teacher's certificate much less without a post-high-school degree. Why should we offer Thailand any less?

Thailand is getting more sophisticated and is waking up to the fact that any farang who presents himself as an educator may not necessarily be so. It takes the occasional John Karr situations to hit home the point.

Are you a natural teacher but without the degree or certificates to back you up? If you're serious about education, and really care for your students, you'd get it. Whatever the sacrifice. My God, it's your career and the lives of hundreds of young people. Those who don't follow through are thinking only of themselves, and how to make a baht while semi-retired.

Let's put our best foot forward as English native-speaker guests/teachers in this country...and in the process, make it easier on all the qualified/documented teachers who are trying to do it right.

Edited November 4, 2006 by toptuan

[richard10365]

I was teaching and this is one of the reasons I quit. I will try to get my degree at Payap in Chiang Mai.

Don't they only do a Masters in TESOL for 'foreigners'?

Yes they do.

[Loaded]

I was teaching and this is one of the reasons I quit. I will try to get my degree at Payap in Chiang Mai.

Don't they only do a Masters in TESOL for 'foreigners'?

Yes they do.

I think one of the entry (MoE) requirements for Payap's MA is a first degree.

[richard10365]

I was teaching and this is one of the reasons I quit. I will try to get my degree at Payap in Chiang Mai.

Don't they only do a Masters in TESOL for 'foreigners'?

Yes they do.

I think one of the entry (MoE) requirements for Payap's MA is a first degree.

Sorry Loaded, I misread your original comment. I really do need to go back to school.

They have 4 BA programs and 4 MA programs. TESOL is one of the MA programs. I plan on taking the BA program in English Communication.

I'm kinda old to go back to school (41) so I hope I succeed.

[Ijustwannateach]

The new rules are almost impossible to understand at the moment- but I don't believe they are making degrees compulsory for those who are only doing TEFL. I will do my best to figure out what's going on. Anyone have any real official word?

[Jonson83]

The new rules are almost impossible to understand at the moment- but I don't believe they are making degrees compulsory for those who are only doing TEFL. I will do my best to figure out what's going on. Anyone have any real official word?

Thats great IJWT.If any more news comes your way, please share it here.Its so hard to keep track of whats going on when you live thousands of miles away Saying that, i have contacted 'SEE' in Chiang mai to see what they think of the current situation.

Toptuan,

I have seen your posts in the other thread m8,i dont want to get into that debate.But to say that someone with a degree is a better teacher than someone who doesnt is absolute rubbish and a view held by a only minority from what i have read here.Ill be going to thailand next year with a friend who has got a degree.We will hopefully gain our TEFL certificate in Chiang mai.But neither of us has any teaching experience.

Are you telling me that because my friend has a degree he will be a better teacher than me or that theres more chance of me being a 'peedo' or an 'undesirable'??? ...my friend that didnt even get english lang/lit A-C GCSE???

If i have to,i will go out of my way to get a degree.Im not looking to retire in thailand.I am 23 years old for gods sake! Lets say i get this degree.All of a sudden do i become a wonder teacher? well? Give me a break.

[PeaceBlondie]

It's one thing for us farang to argue about "good teacher without degree" versus "bad teacher with degree" or with certified credentials, etc.

But it's another thing for the Thai government to tell us what they want. This is their country, their education ministry, etc. Their own Thai teachers in govt. schools have degrees, and they think degrees are important. But if you get a job without a degree (honestly) and do well, the school will usually move mountains to keep you. Well, usually.

[Jonson83]

It's one thing for us farang to argue about "good teacher without degree" versus "bad teacher with degree" or with certified credentials, etc.

But it's another thing for the Thai government to tell us what they want. This is their country, their education ministry, etc. Their own Thai teachers in govt. schools have degrees, and they think degrees are important. But if you get a job without a degree (honestly) and do well, the school will usually move mountains to keep you. Well, usually.

It certainly is their country and they make the rules.I havent said one thing against this 'law' for that very reason.From what i have seen on these forums.It is ther people with degrees that are kicking up the most fuss.As they know just how hard it is to get a WP in the LOS.

[Thaiboxer]

From what I understand, it's not a requirement to have a degree to obtain a work permit. However, if you plan to teach, you need a degree not for the work permit but for the teacher's license which is required for your work permit to teach. I wouldn't worry too much. Sure, the laws are strict compared to just a few years ago but there are plenty of teachers without degrees who are working with work permits and getting along just fine. You have to laugh at all these schools who are demanding qualifications like Western schools demand yet they pay peanuts. Government schools are some of the easiest ones to get into and get a work permit from as they have the connections plus you don't need a teacher's license...the authorities just put a stamp in your passport that says you're a teacher for that school. You may also consider doing some private teaching...it's not easy to keep a consistent schedule but at least it will give you some money to start off with and you may opt to continue with private students after you get a job as that will give you some extra income. Good luck!

[Ron Holms]

The regulation is passed, but it seems soft. They're still hearing by way of a formal committee. sadly, I don't think Thailand's current salary level for teachers can support the regulation. A good start would be checking references from prior schools to weed out the teachers who take their crappy work history from their home country on the road to Thailand.

[Tarragona]

Are you telling me that because my friend has a degree he will be a better teacher than me or that theres more chance of me being a 'peedo' or an 'undesirable'??? ...my friend that didnt even get english lang/lit A-C GCSE???

If i have to,i will go out of my way to get a degree.Im not looking to retire in thailand.I am 23 years old for gods sake! Lets say i get this degree.All of a sudden do i become a wonder teacher? well? Give me a break.

I think you completely miss the point about having a degree. A degree is not meant to show whether you are going to be a good teacher or not. It shows that you have reached a level of maturity, responsibility and academic achievement that is considered necessary for a teacher - no reflection on potential teaching ability. In Thailand, where teachers are still given an elevated status, it is considered important that they have this symbol of that status. Often, the higher the degree, the higher the status. I have no idea of the situation in the UK these days but I'd guess it's still difficult to become a teacher without having a degree. Why do you think it should be different in Thailand?

What is probably needed is for a distinction to be made between the formal education system and language schools. Especially when there is a shortage of language teachers, those without degrees but holding a language teaching qualification should be able to work in language schools but perhaps not in the formal education system.

Again, if anyone could provide some up-to-date information from the UK, I'd be interested to hear the hiring policies of accredited language schools over there and also for Esol courses in further education colleges.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Tarragona

[richard10365]

Are you telling me that because my friend has a degree he will be a better teacher than me or that theres more chance of me being a 'peedo' or an 'undesirable'??? ...my friend that didnt even get english lang/lit A-C GCSE???

If i have to,i will go out of my way to get a degree.Im not looking to retire in thailand.I am 23 years old for gods sake! Lets say i get this degree.All of a sudden do i become a wonder teacher? well? Give me a break.

I think you completely miss the point about having a degree. A degree is not meant to show whether you are going to be a good teacher or not. It shows that you have reached a level of maturity, responsibility and academic achievement that is considered necessary for a teacher - no reflection on potential teaching ability. In Thailand, where teachers are still given an elevated status, it is considered important that they have this symbol of that status. Often, the higher the degree, the higher the status. I have no idea of the situation in the UK these days but I'd guess it's still difficult to become a teacher without having a degree. Why do you think it should be different in Thailand?

What is probably needed is for a distinction to be made between the formal education system and language schools. Especially when there is a shortage of language teachers, those without degrees but holding a language teaching qualification should be able to work in language schools but perhaps not in the formal education system.

Again, if anyone could provide some up-to-date information from the UK, I'd be interested to hear the hiring policies of accredited language schools over there and also for Esol courses in further education colleges.

Although I agree with what you feel a degree means, I don't believe degree's mean that much when it comes to farang teachers teaching English here in Thailand. The fact that any degree, no matter what it is, qualifies you to teach English is somewhat absurd.

I think if Thailand wanted to make sense of their request for all farangs to have a BA degree , then they would require farang English teachers to have an English degree and not a BA degree in auto mechanics or some other off the wall, fly by night degree that has nothing to do with English.

The requirement to have a degree might as well not exist. I know all teachers in the Europe and the USA have degrees, but how many auto shop teachers are teaching English in American high schools? Even the Thai Chinese teachers have to have a degree in Chinese to teach Chinese in Thai schools.

So if the auto shop teacher should be able to teach English in Thailand, so should the high school graduate who never went to college. It makes the same amount of sense.

[mbkudu]

Richard, what you say makes sense, but it is not practical for Thailand. If your ideas were put into action, the classrooms at many schools, especially language schools, here would have no or very few foreign teachers. By the way, I know a Chinese teacher with a law degree from a Chinese university who teaches Mandarin in a Thai private school. Thailand takes what it can get, but tries to keep some face on the front of it.

[bluebear]

If i have to,i will go out of my way to get a degree.Im not looking to retire in thailand.I am 23 years old for gods sake! Lets say i get this degree.All of a sudden do i become a wonder teacher? well? Give me a break.

Have you considered that the process of learning and aquiring more skills with a degree might make you a better teacher?

Have you considered that a degree may take you further in life than you can without a degree?

23 years old and you seem to know everything. What a great teacher you must be in all your subjects.

hmm, now that I think about it. you dont come from bournemouth do you?

[Scott]

We have a Thai lady who is the liason person between the school and the Immigration and Labour Department--she handles all the paper work. She's on very good terms with everyone. I met with her to find out what we need to do for recruitment. Here's what she told me.

First of all, for all the people who are already employed and have a work permit and teacher's license, even though they don't have a regular degree, don't worry. The regulations at this point are being applied to new teachers.

To get the Non-immigrant B visa, the school must first submit a copy of the degree and the passport to the Ministry of Education (MOE). There also needs to be a letter to the University requesting authentication of the degree--in short, that the degree is real. They will then send a letter to the Embassy or Consulate where the non-immigrant visa is to be issued, requesting the embassy to issue it (or attesting to the authenticity of the request). Without this from the MOE, the embassy probably won't give the visa.

The person then must have a copy of their contract, a letter from the school, and a copy of the schools registration to get the non-immigrant B.

Once the employee has the visa, the school can apply for the Teachers License and Work Permit. These, however, will not be issued, until there is a reply from the University that the degree is authentic.

And yes, you must hve a Bachelors degree.

This is all I know at this point. I am currently working on getting all this done for a new teacher. I'll try to keep it posted if I find changes.

In the past, the non-immigrant B visa was continually extended by the immigration department as long as we showed them that the application for the WP was made. This is no longer the case. The employee will have the 90 days to get the WP and then they will have to leave the country for 90 days (and/or apply for a visa at an embassy). This is a big change, since it means the paperwork has to be done quickly.

Please remember, it's not always exactly what the law says, but how it is interpreted that makes the big difference.

[Casanundra]

"First of all, for all the people who are already employed and have a work permit and teacher's license, even though they don't have a regular degree, don't worry. The regulations at this point are being applied to new teachers."

- So what happens when the school bins the teacher or a teacher resigns?. Does the teacher suddenly become a new teacher again and therefore the rules apply? if so then teachers without degrees are merely delaying the inevitable.

"Once the employee has the visa, the school can apply for the Teachers License and Work Permit. These, however, will not be issued, until there is a reply from the University that the degree is authentic."

- So who wants to bet that many of these will be fabricated then? Who is it that is checking the checkers? Is there a sample check done for authenticity?

As always there seems to be flaws in the process and for sure these will be exploited.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Casanundra

[Loaded]

To get the Non-immigrant B visa, the school must first submit a copy of the degree and the passport to the Ministry of Education (MOE). There also needs to be a letter to the University requesting authentication of the degree--in short, that the degree is real. They will then send a letter to the Embassy or Consulate where the non-immigrant visa is to be issued, requesting the embassy to issue it (or attesting to the authenticity of the request). Without this from the MOE, the embassy probably won't give the visa.

The person then must have a copy of their contract, a letter from the school, and a copy of the schools registration to get the non-immigrant B.

Once the employee has the visa, the school can apply for the Teachers License and Work Permit. These,

This of course only applies if you apply for your non-immB in Penang or Laos. There's been no changes to the requirements at Thai Consulates or Embassies in your home country if that's where you apply for your non-immB.

But if the above is enforced just think about it for a moment: the teacher will need to wait a few months for his degree to be authenticated before he can go on a visa run to Penang or Vietianne to obtain his non-immB. If he's to obtain the non-immB before the academic year begins schools will need to start recruiting now, and that isn't feasible. Plus a letter needs to be sent from the MoE to Penang or Laos. If you've lived in Thailand a while you'll know that the letter won't be sent, or if it is, there will be no record of it when you arrive at the consulate or there be a spelling error. Absolute chaos. After a couple of days Thais will revert to their default machanism of ignoring the rules. IMO

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Loaded. The last matayom school I worked at, my boss had been there her entire 25 year career, and she was literally incapable of getting her boss, the Director, to sign a paper on letterhead. Or maybe she was just scared sh*tless of the guy. They didn't have a clue, and had been in business 75 years.

[Jonson83]

To get the Non-immigrant B visa, the school must first submit a copy of the degree and the passport to the Ministry of Education (MOE). There also needs to be a letter to the University requesting authentication of the degree--in short, that the degree is real. They will then send a letter to the Embassy or Consulate where the non-immigrant visa is to be issued, requesting the embassy to issue it (or attesting to the authenticity of the request). Without this from the MOE, the embassy probably won't give the visa.

The person then must have a copy of their contract, a letter from the school, and a copy of the schools registration to get the non-immigrant B.

Once the employee has the visa, the school can apply for the Teachers License and Work Permit. These,

This of course only applies if you apply for your non-immB in Penang or Laos. There's been no changes to the requirements at Thai Consulates or Embassies in your home country if that's where you apply for your non-immB.

But if the above is enforced just think about it for a moment: the teacher will need to wait a few months for his degree to be authenticated before he can go on a visa run to Penang or Vietianne to obtain his non-immB. If he's to obtain the non-immB before the academic year begins schools will need to start recruiting now, and that isn't feasible. Plus a letter needs to be sent from the MoE to Penang or Laos. If you've lived in Thailand a while you'll know that the letter won't be sent, or if it is, there will be no record of it when you arrive at the consulate or there be a spelling error. Absolute chaos. After a couple of days Thais will revert to their default machanism of ignoring the rules. IMO

True loaded,ive been in contact with 'SEE' and they have confirmed this.The Consulate in Hull has issued a statement saying that this new law will not apply to those applying for a NON-Im B visa from their consulate.I assume the other consulates in England are doing the same.

Btw,thanks a lot for suggesting them.They have been very helpful(visa..).Im going to enroll with 'Siam educational experience' tomorrow.

bluebear,

????

If you want to lecture people about degrees.Go do it on the other forum linked in my first post.

[makavelithedon]

Scott,

You appear quite knowledgeable on the subject (or you and the lady from your school do) so I would appreciate if you could give me your opinion on the upcoming visa merry go round!

A friend of mine works at a government school with only a TEFL teaching training certificate. He has a marriage visa and work permit from the school but I know he doesn't have a teacher license. He is very happy in the job (been teaching 3 years or more) and the school are very pleased with his work.

So when it comes for renewal of his work permit and extention of stay, how is it different in that he will have been at the school for over 2 years with what he has to submit, than if he was a new teacher just starting at the same school?

I would also appreciate if you could answer this for me! I work alongside him and have to extend my WP soon by visiting the Employment office after an initial 6 month WP option maturing. I also have an extention of stay with 2 dates one up in december the other next April which will be the end of the school year which I don't really understand. I have the non Ed qualifications and the Thai teacher license (luckily by the sound of it with test and G#d knows what else in the pipeline) but just want to know where it's different/easier in regard extention rather than renewal?

Anyone else who has some knowledge of this by all means chip in, I find all this new stuff a little much to keep up with!!

I'm just hoping my friend is going to be able to hold his position because he isn't moving schools!

Regards and thanks in advance

Mak

Edited November 10, 2006 by makavelithedon

[Loaded]

A friend of mine works at a government school with only a TEFL teaching training certificate. He has a marriage visa and work permit from the school but I know he doesn't have a teacher license. He is very happy in the job (been teaching 3 years or more) and the school are very pleased with his work.

As I understand it all that is required to obtain a wp from a government school is a TEFL qualification. You don't need a tl or degree. A private school it's necesary to have a tl and to obtain the tl you normally need a degree; however, I know many teachers in private schools without degrees but with wps. Johhny Walker Black Label is a common tax (paid by the school).

[seykota]

The Korean Government requires transcripts sent directly from the university, these must be in unopened envelopes with the university's seal or stamp across the envelope seal. All legitimate universities have a web site and have a section for alumni to apply for their official transcript. This usually involves printing the application form, filling it out and signing it (plus your credit card details forn the appropriate fee).

Most universities advise a 5 day "processing" period, so add the time in the postal service, the transcript should arrive within 2 weeks. In Korea the transcript is ususlly sent directly to the school, university, academy etc and then taken to the goverment department with the other requirements for example passport, degree or certified copy. If a certified copy is used, the certification must be made by a Korean Consulate only.

The main differences between the Korean and Thai situatons are that most foreign teachers working in Korea do not have any form of TESOL/TESL qualification and the pay is substantially more with accomodation is provided in Korea. It is true that the cost of living is higher but not nearly by the same percentage as the pay difference.

However, the quality of life in Thailand compared to Korea is a "no brainer" , beaurcratic hassles aside, Thailand is a far better place to live.

Warm regards

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks for the posts, ladies and gentlemen, but in accordance with our recent temporary policy in this subforum to close threads asking if a degree is required "for anything," I am closing this thread. Too much paranoia and too little information at the moment.

If you wish to continue flogging a dead degree/no degree/WP/no WP/teacher's license/no teacher's license horse with little reliable info available, please click here.

Otherwise please hang on until more reliable information becomes available. There are too many inconsistent rumours and there is too little reliable information at present.

"Steven"