Urgent weird engine problem!

[cheeryble]

Suzuki Vitara 1999 1600cc 16v

Much loved car has been running fine.

I pulled into fill the gas from near empty at CMU petrol station......1000 baht.

Drove off OK about 800m had to wait at the lights a minute then turned right down Huay Kaew about another 800m was approaching my goal, Maya.

I noticed hearing what sounded like a quite sharp pinking (knocking) though I wasn't certain it was that.

As I pulled in and headed for the downstairs car park and started making low rev manoeuvres to park the engine stalled.

I turned the key and it was a bit as if I had a low battery and it wouldn't start.Tried three times and stopped doing it.

Waited three minutes and tried again, got a start and pulled into the space.

Had my dinner meeting and came out perhaps an hour later.

Started fine. No noise.

Went a km to the Ram to see the wife at work. Engine a bit weird as I parked.

15 minutes later took off again car ran normally at first was heading for a foot massage and after I'd driven perhaps a mile or two trying to keep the revs highish, which seemed to hold off the knocking noise, got to a junction.

I let the revs get too low and it stalled.

Luckily a friendly cop and a tub tsk driver helped me get it off the road a bit.

We discussed, and as I had had success after a wait before I went for a half hour foot massage (yes really).

Went out, the car started immediately and I drove home nearly 20km, but was careful to avoid stopping at lights etc so cruised most of the way and got a hint of the knocking when I went to say fifth gear so stayed in fourth most of the time and third in slower areas.

SO, what's happening?

Is it conceivable the gas station gave me low octane and do the symptoms including the "nearly dead battery" feel and stalling fit this?

I said gao neung neung pan baht quite clearly I think (that's always gasohol now right? Same as i've had for years)......but didn't watch him pour but he wasn't an idiot it was a guy I've chatted to before.

Would say E85 cause these symptoms?

Am I heading down the wrong track with petrol?

What are the other possibilities bearing in mind it seems normal on startup?.....and BTW the Temp needle is in it's normal place mid range

The noise seemed to be initiated by throttle down, just like knocking.

Would be grateful for all advice!

(ps battery is quite new.)

Edited May 9, 2016 by cheeryble

[lostinisaan]

Went a km to the Ram to see the wife at work. ( just to check on her.)

15 minutes later took off again car ran normally at first was heading for a foot massage ( a foot massage with a happy ending, as you need to tell your mates' something,right?.)

We discussed, and as I had had success after a wait before I went for a half hour foot massage (yes really). ( Oh god, are you making fun of us? Having problems with your car and going for a fool massage() Sure, thate makes perfect sense.

Luckily a friendly cop and a tub tsk driver helped me get it off the road a bit.( I hope to thanked them with a "Wai" for doing so..)

I pulled into fill the gas from near empty at CMU petrol station......1000 baht Is it conceivable the gas station gave me low octane and do the symptoms including the "nearly dead battery" feel and stalling fit this?

Did you buy gas, or bezine?

I said gao neung neung pan baht quite clearly Let's assume that "gao" is nine, then nueng nueng pan baht wouldn't be understood, by anybody, because that's neither Thai, nor Isaan slang.

Nine- one- one- thousand baht is what you've said. .

And I hope that your gas will never end. But please never start to blame somebody else when you can't speak a languege.

But to get on topic: Buy a new car that's working, but please do not bash Thai people. Cheers -

" Phom Au Naam Mann Gao Sip Et,- Nueng Phann baht", na khrap, is what you should have said. Try it next time, please.

Low quality bezine/gas/ Diesel oil can't be the culprit for your almost dead? battery. Once the voltage is too low some electronic stuff stops working as it should.

If you check with a voltmeter and the voltage in under 12 volts, when the engine isn't running, your battery seems to be fragged up.

If you start the engine and go to let's say 2,000 RPM idling speed, you should read around 13.8 Volts on your ( Volt) meter.

If it only shows 12 volt when the engine is running then, you've got an alternator problem. ( or a cable connection problem from battery to alternator)

If the voltage at your battery drops down to 12 volt and less atfer you switched off your engine, the battery seems to need replacement.

You can easily look it up on youtube.

Edited May 9, 2016 by lostinisaan

[seedy]

Flaming post Removed

[surangw]

blocked exhaust system?

[Ace of Pop]

Diesel not Benzine perhaps.

[lj cm]

If the tank was almost empty, it could be dirt from the fuel tank. Especially on an old car.

Check the fuel filter (and battery). Sometimes multiple problems happens at the same time.

[Wiggy]

If not the battery as suggested, the answer could be in the "near empty" part of your post. When a tank gets really low it can collect 'sludge' (flakes of rust and/or small debris from years of use) from the bottom of the tank. This in turn maybe blocking the filter a little and restricting the flow of fuel to the engine. Or, some has made it past the filter and is blocking the needle valve in your carburetor (assuming it's not fuel injected) or an injector. This would cause the sluggishness and stalling as the engine is being starved of fuel. You may need to have the fuel system cleaned (start with the carburetor) if you can't find out what else it might be. Also, check the colour of the fuel if you can. I understand each type is a different colour, although I'm not sure what they are. This might tell you what was put in.

[worgeordie]

But please never start to blame somebody else when you can't speak a languege.

or even spell it !, it seems, and you are a teacher !

regards worgeordie

P.S. Cheeryble You must likely have shit or even water from the bottom of the tank,

by waiting till the tank was nearly empty,blocking your fuel filter ,an

easy fix, good luck.

[Tywais]

They may have pulled up some water at the gas station...

Also check the radiator water level as you will get very similar symptoms if nearly dry and overheats. Been there done that.

[cheeryble]

Went a km to the Ram to see the wife at work. ( just to check on her.)

15 minutes later took off again car ran normally at first was heading for a foot massage ( a foot massage with a happy ending, as you need to tell your mates' something,right?.)

We discussed, and as I had had success after a wait before I went for a half hour foot massage (yes really). ( Oh god, are you making fun of us? Having problems with your car and going for a fool massage() Sure, thate makes perfect sense.

Luckily a friendly cop and a tub tsk driver helped me get it off the road a bit.( I hope to thanked them with a "Wai" for doing so..)

I pulled into fill the gas from near empty at CMU petrol station......1000 baht Is it conceivable the gas station gave me low octane and do the symptoms including the "nearly dead battery" feel and stalling fit this?

Did you buy gas, or bezine?

I said gao neung neung pan baht quite clearly Let's assume that "gao" is nine, then nueng nueng pan baht wouldn't be understood, by anybody, because that's neither Thai, nor Isaan slang.

Nine- one- one- thousand baht is what you've said. .

And I hope that your gas will never end. But please never start to blame somebody else when you can't speak a languege.

But to get on topic: Buy a new car that's working, but please do not bash Thai people. Cheers -

" Phom Au Naam Mann Gao Sip Et,- Nueng Phann baht", na khrap, is what you should have said. Try it next time, please.

Low quality bezine/gas/ Diesel oil can't be the culprit for your almost dead? battery. Once the voltage is too low some electronic stuff stops working as it should.

If you check with a voltmeter and the voltage in under 12 volts, when the engine isn't running, your battery seems to be fragged up.

If you start the engine and go to let's say 2,000 RPM idling speed, you should read around 13.8 Volts on your ( Volt) meter.

If it only shows 12 volt when the engine is running then, you've got an alternator problem. ( or a cable connection problem from battery to alternator)

If the voltage at your battery drops down to 12 volt and less atfer you switched off your engine, the battery seems to need replacement.

You can easily look it up on youtube.

I believe i ordered in the same manner I have been ordering for years.

I'm not blaming anyone ,,,,,i just want to fix my car.

Edited May 10, 2016 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

blocked exhaust system?

Any reason to think so Surang?

[cheeryble]

Diesel not Benzine perhaps.

Will a petrol car run on diesel....it needs high compression doesn't it?

[Ace of Pop]

Diesel not Benzine perhaps.

Will a petrol car run on diesel....it needs high compression doesn't it?

it runs a bit till the diesel reaches the engine, plus a few more splutterin meters then stops.

[cheeryble]

They may have pulled up some water at the gas station...

Also check the radiator water level as you will get very similar symptoms if nearly dry and overheats. Been there done that.

You hit the nail on the head!

Rad level was terrible I filled two or there large kettles of water and saw water coming out underneath.

I have identified a little squirting leak in a junction off the lower hose.

I tried the engine for a few seconds and it started like normal!

Amazed I haven't wrecked the engine driving all that way last night and hoping to hell it's not permanently damaged.....and glad I put synthetic oil in last time. Amazed i got home.

obviously the engine was tightening up which is why the battery seemed sluggish when slow.

Guess all I can do is get the bad bit replaced or otherwise fixed and hope for the best.

Question is do I fill up water and drive to my mechanic Pro-Auto....about 8-10 km......I'lll call him and ask.

In fact Suzuki on the ring road is nearer and may not cost much more as the part is not an expensive one, maybe go there.

OTOH ProAuto speak English.

ps guess the water was below the engine temp indicator sensor so it looked kinda normal.

Edited May 10, 2016 by cheeryble

[Bung]

Glad you found a problem. Keep ordering your fuel as you do. Its perfectly fine to ask an attendant that way, they hear it like that all day and I say it exactly the same for 20 years without a issue. Saying Pom ow first is ridiculous. You may as well be waiing them as you ask.

[cheeryble]

Glad you found a problem. Keep ordering your fuel as you do. Its perfectly fine to ask an attendant that way, they hear it like that all day and I say it exactly the same for 20 years without a issue. Saying Pom ow first is ridiculous. You may as well be waiing them as you ask.

Thanks for support and agreed about language if anything I would would start more politely with "kor" but it ain't necessary especially as I'm almost pals with the attendant having chatted with him.

[Bung]

Looks like you have overheated your engine and may have done some damage. Commonly it will damage your head gasket so keep an eye on your water level after fixing the leak and check the dipstick to see if the oil goes milky coloured.

[Tywais]

Looks like you have overheated your engine and may have done some damage. Commonly it will damage your head gasket so keep an eye on your water level after fixing the leak and check the dipstick to see if the oil goes milky coloured.

Also run the engine with the radiator cap off and look for bubbles coming up which could indicate a gasket failure or warped head.

[cheeryble]

Looks like you have overheated your engine and may have done some damage. Commonly it will damage your head gasket so keep an eye on your water level after fixing the leak and check the dipstick to see if the oil goes milky coloured.

Also run the engine with the radiator cap off and look for bubbles coming up which could indicate a gasket failure or warped head.

They will certainly be doing that to check after fixing the leak

[cheeryble]

Don't drive it, get someone round to replace the hose, even worth paying a main dealer to do it, it will be peanuts in the difference in cost to a warped head fix.....Trust me...

Gonna try to get a local place to give me a tow with a pick up.....if not will take a big tankard of water and stop halfway wait ten minutes and top up.

[HooHaa]

Had similar issue with carribian, problem was water on top of the gas that would separate, then get agitated in once car was moving.

[cheeryble]

Had similar issue with carribian, problem was water on top of the gas that would separate, then get agitated in once car was moving.

No its a visible water leak I will post photo tonight maybe I sent it to Pro Auto to give him the exact story

ps manual trans

Edited May 10, 2016 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

I couldn't get a tow easily and did three sections to get to

ProAuto with stopping, waiting for some cooling, and topping up with (a lot of) water.

I watched the temp indicator and believe I didn't let the water go below its sensor.

Anyway I got there and we are crossing fingers as the oil ain't got an emulsion in it and the water when topped up shows no film on top.

They will change the part tomorrow and do anything to the radiator which is pretty grotty looking inside.

Below a pic shows a needle like jet of water discovered by yours truly from the metal junction on the bottom hose. The jet is just visible inside the red circle and starts still the brownish stain and heads rights at about 70 degrees to the vertical....

I post this as you guys have been decent enough to try to help and deserve to see some outcome from which we all learn.

Edited May 10, 2016 by cheeryble

[keeniau96]

Have had the same, did same with can of extra water to get to shop about 1 km away (good luck for short distance). Did have a oil film on of water overflow tank but all seems OK, keeping a close eye on it.

[billphillips]

Went a km to the Ram to see the wife at work. ( just to check on her.)

15 minutes later took off again car ran normally at first was heading for a foot massage ( a foot massage with a happy ending, as you need to tell your mates' something,right?.)

We discussed, and as I had had success after a wait before I went for a half hour foot massage (yes really). ( Oh god, are you making fun of us? Having problems with your car and going for a fool massage() Sure, thate makes perfect sense.

Luckily a friendly cop and a tub tsk driver helped me get it off the road a bit.( I hope to thanked them with a "Wai" for doing so..)

I pulled into fill the gas from near empty at CMU petrol station......1000 baht Is it conceivable the gas station gave me low octane and do the symptoms including the "nearly dead battery" feel and stalling fit this?

Did you buy gas, or bezine?

I said gao neung neung pan baht quite clearly Let's assume that "gao" is nine, then nueng nueng pan baht wouldn't be understood, by anybody, because that's neither Thai, nor Isaan slang.

Nine- one- one- thousand baht is what you've said. .

And I hope that your gas will never end. But please never start to blame somebody else when you can't speak a languege.

But to get on topic: Buy a new car that's working, but please do not bash Thai people. Cheers -

" Phom Au Naam Mann Gao Sip Et,- Nueng Phann baht", na khrap, is what you should have said. Try it next time, please.

Low quality bezine/gas/ Diesel oil can't be the culprit for your almost dead? battery. Once the voltage is too low some electronic stuff stops working as it should.

If you check with a voltmeter and the voltage in under 12 volts, when the engine isn't running, your battery seems to be fragged up.

If you start the engine and go to let's say 2,000 RPM idling speed, you should read around 13.8 Volts on your ( Volt) meter.

If it only shows 12 volt when the engine is running then, you've got an alternator problem. ( or a cable connection problem from battery to alternator)

If the voltage at your battery drops down to 12 volt and less atfer you switched off your engine, the battery seems to need replacement.

You can easily look it up on youtube.

I believe i ordered in the same manner I have been ordering for years.

I'm not blaming anyone ,,,,,i just want to fix my car.

I think you ordered the fuel in much the same way as I and many others do ..... 91, 1000 baht. It's as clear as can be stated in Thai with no frills and provokes no further questions from the staff.

The engine problem you described is almost certainly an overheating issue. The sluggish battery turn over could be caused by a heat seize that resolves itself after a cooling down period. The battery can't cause pinking nor can it turn over the engine once discharged / faulty / unserviceable etc. However overheating does cause pinking, check that the cooling fan is working if it's an electric one because your longer drive home (with free flowing air) didn't recreate the problem.

[cheeryble]

Amazing final result!

Replaced the odd shaped metal 3 way junction which was in bad condition as well as the hole, and replaced three rubber hoses and the radiator cap.

There was no water in the oil, and no oil in the water

No sign of gases entering the cooling water.

I reckon I must have driven that car dry of water about 20 minutes non stop. Seems impossible.

The oil feels normal no sign of burning.

I got away with a relative pittance whereas if the head had warped or even just a blown head gasket or god knows what else seizing it could have been a rally painful bill and time waste.

Instead I had the car back to drive by teatime today and it is just like normal.

TIP:

A friend suggested that being in the situation of having a leak and refilling to get somewhere DON'T put the filler cap on as it will pressurise the water and blow it out faster.

Makes sense.

Edited May 11, 2016 by cheeryble

[Lancashirelad]

You've got away very lucky that it didn't do the head gasket. The pinking was because the engine was hot. The flat battery effect was because, as you OP suggested, it was so hot it was starting to tighten up. Good idea to run without pressure cap once leak discovered. I know you said you waited (a bit) for it to cool down, NEVER put cold water in a hot engine. It will either boil it & blow it straight out (very possibly all over you) and/or crack the head.

Drawing up crud, rust etc. into the fuel system from a near empty tank is a bit of an old wives tales. Most tanks are plastic these day. Fuel is not drawn from the bottom, but from a stack pipe which enters the tank, often along with the sender unit & float, from the top or sometimes the side. That feed pipe often has a filter on the end of it and ends slightly above the tank floor. So it is always drawing from near the floor of the tank, no matter the fuel level. In other words, if you were to drive the car until it stopped due to running out of fuel, there will still be some fuel in the tank, but beyond the reach of the feed pipe.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Lancashirelad

[cheeryble]

Amazing final result!

Replaced the odd shaped metal 3 way junction which was in bad condition as well as the hole, and replaced three rubber hoses and the radiator cap.

There was no water in the oil, and no oil in the water

No sign of gases entering the cooling water.

I reckon I must have driven that car dry of water about 20 minutes non stop. Seems impossible.

The oil feels normal no sign of burning.

I got away with a relative pittance whereas if the head had warped or even just a blown head gasket or god knows what else seizing it could have been a rally painful bill and time waste.

Instead I had the car back to drive by teatime today and it is just like normal.

TIP:

A friend suggested that being in the situation of having a leak and refilling to get somewhere DON'T put the filler cap on as it will pressurise the water and blow it out faster.

Makes sense.

It can also blow the water out of the rad with no cap...

PS. If the 3 way thingy was corroded it is because it did not have "anti-freeze" or not enough in the system... It is very important to have the stuff in to stop alloy corrosion...

Agreed this has made me think about water additive I'm going to check on it.

[lj cm]

Amazing final result!

Replaced the odd shaped metal 3 way junction which was in bad condition as well as the hole, and replaced three rubber hoses and the radiator cap.

There was no water in the oil, and no oil in the water

No sign of gases entering the cooling water.

I reckon I must have driven that car dry of water about 20 minutes non stop. Seems impossible.

The oil feels normal no sign of burning.

I got away with a relative pittance whereas if the head had warped or even just a blown head gasket or god knows what else seizing it could have been a rally painful bill and time waste.

Instead I had the car back to drive by teatime today and it is just like normal.

TIP:

A friend suggested that being in the situation of having a leak and refilling to get somewhere DON'T put the filler cap on as it will pressurise the water and blow it out faster.

Makes sense.

It can also blow the water out of the rad with no cap...

PS. If the 3 way thingy was corroded it is because it did not have "anti-freeze" or not enough in the system... It is very important to have the stuff in to stop alloy corrosion...

Agreed this has made me think about water additive I'm going to check on it.

At the moment, I have to wait 2 month for a new Radiator for my 16 year old car. It's completely clogged up.

It cost 13,000 Baht and I regret not having used an additive to keep rust and dirt away.

[cheeryble]

Amazing final result!

Replaced the odd shaped metal 3 way junction which was in bad condition as well as the hole, and replaced three rubber hoses and the radiator cap.

There was no water in the oil, and no oil in the water

No sign of gases entering the cooling water.

I reckon I must have driven that car dry of water about 20 minutes non stop. Seems impossible.

The oil feels normal no sign of burning.

I got away with a relative pittance whereas if the head had warped or even just a blown head gasket or god knows what else seizing it could have been a rally painful bill and time waste.

Instead I had the car back to drive by teatime today and it is just like normal.

TIP:

A friend suggested that being in the situation of having a leak and refilling to get somewhere DON'T put the filler cap on as it will pressurise the water and blow it out faster.

Makes sense.

It can also blow the water out of the rad with no cap...

PS. If the 3 way thingy was corroded it is because it did not have "anti-freeze" or not enough in the system... It is very important to have the stuff in to stop alloy corrosion...

Agreed this has made me think about water additive I'm going to check on it.

At the moment, I have to wait 2 month for a new Radiator for my 16 year old car. It's completely clogged up.

It cost 13,000 Baht and I regret not having used an additive to keep rust and dirt away.

Regret to hear that ljcm

it occurs to me that as the rad was clogging up wouldn't the engine temp have started to rise over a long period?

If not an unacceptably high temperature wondering if there's a chance a proper chemical flush might be done......this is quite an extended procedure but if done properly would clean the rest of the engine.......check out Youtube.

In any case make sure the cooling ports in the block are cleared and if by chance you have a heater the matrix may be as bad.

When refilling there's some good reason to use distilled water......don't ask me what may be just to stop light deposits in future.

Well worth cleaning out the inside of the top up bottle which is likely to have become brown/opaque

Edited May 17, 2016 by cheeryble