Gen Prawit hopes Ms Yingluck gave factual information to European Parliament

[rubl]

My apologies, I didn't realize what a profound and terrifying impression her statement must have made on you.....

Not terrifying, only profound. It's always interesting to see such Amply Rich figures forget that they are not 'we', that they want a return to rule-of-law when they are asked to show the accountability which goes with their "being in charge", their "being responsible".

Anything else about the EP commission on Foreign Affairs asking Ms. Yingluck about democracy as she sees it?

"Not terrifying, only profound."

What??? The empty air head mouthpiece for Lord Voldemort Na Dubai (aka the criminal fugitive and origin of sin) has said something profound?

Are you developing a soft spot for her? Out with it!

"Criminal fugitive" - you missed out "convicted". You must put in "convicted". He is a "convicted criminal fugitive", you see, it gives you a nice warm feeling, knowing he is "convicted" which dulls the occasional pangs of conscience which some may get for so enthusiastically supporting a regime which has taken away the peoples political, electoral and legal rights, and is busily suppressing their rights of freedom of speech and association, a style of government more at home in cold war South America than a developing country in the C21 which had an established, albeit far from perfect but none the less functioning democracy. So never forget - "convicted"!

He forgot to use 'corrupt' as well, 'Corrupt' is one of those emotive words that impress easily-fooled people. Essential to use it at every opportunity if you are an easily-fooled people.

Winnie

You are mistaken, Ms. Yingluck is not accused of corruption, but of negligence. Personally I doubt she corrupt as in accepting payment for services. Maybe more allowing others to profit, but that would fit in with 'negligence'.

Anyway, really looking forward to the 24th of May meeting of the EP commission for Foreign Affairs. At least I hope they'll mention this really important meeting where Ms. Yingluck gave her view on democracy and how it died when she was asked to show accountability.

[Winniedapu]

"Not terrifying, only profound."

What??? The empty air head mouthpiece for Lord Voldemort Na Dubai (aka the criminal fugitive and origin of sin) has said something profound?

Are you developing a soft spot for her? Out with it!

"Criminal fugitive" - you missed out "convicted". You must put in "convicted". He is a "convicted criminal fugitive", you see, it gives you a nice warm feeling, knowing he is "convicted" which dulls the occasional pangs of conscience which some may get for so enthusiastically supporting a regime which has taken away the peoples political, electoral and legal rights, and is busily suppressing their rights of freedom of speech and association, a style of government more at home in cold war South America than a developing country in the C21 which had an established, albeit far from perfect but none the less functioning democracy. So never forget - "convicted"!

He forgot to use 'corrupt' as well, 'Corrupt' is one of those emotive words that impress easily-fooled people. Essential to use it at every opportunity if you are an easily-fooled people.

Winnie

You are mistaken, Ms. Yingluck is not accused of corruption, but of negligence. Personally I doubt she corrupt as in accepting payment for services. Maybe more allowing others to profit, but that would fit in with 'negligence'.

Anyway, really looking forward to the 24th of May meeting of the EP commission for Foreign Affairs. At least I hope they'll mention this really important meeting where Ms. Yingluck gave her view on democracy and how it died when she was asked to show accountability.

"You are mistaken,"

No, you miss the point. Gawd, it's sad when you have to explain gentle mockery as simple as this.

Winnie

[rubl]

"Criminal fugitive" - you missed out "convicted". You must put in "convicted". He is a "convicted criminal fugitive", you see, it gives you a nice warm feeling, knowing he is "convicted" which dulls the occasional pangs of conscience which some may get for so enthusiastically supporting a regime which has taken away the peoples political, electoral and legal rights, and is busily suppressing their rights of freedom of speech and association, a style of government more at home in cold war South America than a developing country in the C21 which had an established, albeit far from perfect but none the less functioning democracy. So never forget - "convicted"!

He forgot to use 'corrupt' as well, 'Corrupt' is one of those emotive words that impress easily-fooled people. Essential to use it at every opportunity if you are an easily-fooled people.

Winnie

You are mistaken, Ms. Yingluck is not accused of corruption, but of negligence. Personally I doubt she corrupt as in accepting payment for services. Maybe more allowing others to profit, but that would fit in with 'negligence'.

Anyway, really looking forward to the 24th of May meeting of the EP commission for Foreign Affairs. At least I hope they'll mention this really important meeting where Ms. Yingluck gave her view on democracy and how it died when she was asked to show accountability.

"You are mistaken,"

No, you miss the point. Gawd, it's sad when you have to explain gentle mockery as simple as this.

Winnie

Oh, you mean it's allowed to mention 'criminal fugitive' and 'corrupt' as gentle mockery. Mind you, I normally only use it when applicable.

[Rayk]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

So I guess it's time for a quick lesson in facts and history as well as learning that much as you keep trying you can't rewrite history because people will correct you ok Popit.

"And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is?"

News flash, Yingluk democratically elected leader, followed the law to dissolve government, followed the law to hold elections with in 60 days.

fact 1. The EP requested a meeting with Yingluk and were granted it.

fact 2. The junta wanted a meeting with the EP to "clarify" Thailand's political situation

fact 3. The Junta leader said democracy will never die in Thailand as he is a democratic leader.

fact 4. The junta leader said that military courts never violate human rights.

fact 5. The junta leader gave himself and his mate an amnesty of past present and future crimes.

fact 6. The junta leader publicly stated that if reporters do not tell (the truth) (party line) will be executed.

fact 7. The junta leader said if he wanted to use his full powers he could have people taken out and shot.

fact 8. The junta lead has the people that investigations into his family's wealth will not be tolerated.

fact 9. The junta leader promised there would be no coup. and then promised election and reneged each time.

fact 10. You fan boy's just hate it when facts are pointed out to you, but it's ok now Popit lesson over.

OOpp's just one more little nugget for ya mate, The junta leader was not democratically elected but self imposed.

And that's checkmate.

Game over.

Well said.

[sjaak327]

I guess the visit came to be in place of the outstanding invitation to Ms. Yingluck, the one from October last year. At least The Nation mentions Werner Langen.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Only-inclusive-reform-will-pave-the-way-to-democra-30286278.html

No, as this particular meeting was mentioned as well back then.

Cannot find a reference to that. Please help me.

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

[rubl]

I guess the visit came to be in place of the outstanding invitation to Ms. Yingluck, the one from October last year. At least The Nation mentions Werner Langen.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Only-inclusive-reform-will-pave-the-way-to-democra-30286278.html

No, as this particular meeting was mentioned as well back then.

Cannot find a reference to that. Please help me.

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

[Winniedapu]

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

[rubl]

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

Read again, my dear Winnie. The government didn't forbid a meeting, the government did not give Ms. Yingluck permission to travel as she's expected in court. Surely all those admirers who always wait for her to arrive at court would be mightily disappointed if she didn't show up.

[Winniedapu]

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

Read again, my dear Winnie. The government didn't forbid a meeting, the government did not give Ms. Yingluck permission to travel as she's expected in court. Surely all those admirers who always wait for her to arrive at court would be mightily disappointed if she didn't show up.

Rubi, Rubi. Have you not learned from serial metaphorical kickings in this and other forums, that you cannot dissemble like this and expect to retain some semblance of credibility. Are you so much a junta fanboi that you are prepared day after day, to subject yourself to ridicule? Or is it that you genuinely don't know you are being ridiculed?

The junta never forbade Yingluck from meeting the European Parliament at their invitation. They only prevented her from travelling to do so.

Dear God, If someone else said that, you'd laugh in derision. At least I hope you would because only a complete dolt would think it a reasonable statement to make.

Winnie

Edited May 22, 2016 by Winniedapu

[sjaak327]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

[Eric Loh]

Use search ? There was at least one topic on here about it, and you participated in that discussion, probably without actually reading the OP, or short memory.

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

Read again, my dear Winnie. The government didn't forbid a meeting, the government did not give Ms. Yingluck permission to travel as she's expected in court. Surely all those admirers who always wait for her to arrive at court would be mightily disappointed if she didn't show up.

Between the subpoena and the prosecutors putting together the charge and the appointment of judges; plenty of time and really no legal reasons as to why the junta cannot let her go. But as the junta PM said "she can't even go out to eat a bowl of noodles without his permission", we certainly see the abuse of power.

[Winniedapu]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

And the same document makes it clear that the junta *did* in fact block YL from attending the requested European meeting, though I'm sure no thanks will accrue for reminding the junta-huggers of that fact.\

Besides, if she were prevented from travelling because of a court hearing, why did the court not issue an order to that effect. YL had guaranteed a return for the court hearing since the meeting in Europe and the date of the court hearing did not conflict.

So any defence of the junta by Rubi or whoever is completely bogus. More ridicule.

Winnie

[sjaak327]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

And the same document makes it clear that the junta *did* in fact block YL from attending the requested European meeting, though I'm sure no thanks will accrue for reminding the junta-huggers of that fact.\

Besides, if she were prevented from travelling because of a court hearing, why did the court not issue an order to that effect. YL had guaranteed a return for the court hearing since the meeting in Europe and the date of the court hearing did not conflict.

So any defence of the junta by Rubi or whoever is completely bogus. More ridicule.

Winnie

The sad fact is that the junta doesn't need a court order, they can and did prevent her from travelling.

The fact that she is accused, but not yet convicted of "negligence" has nothing at all to do with the reason for the Junta preventing Yingluck from attending. And other then some of the Junta supporters, the members of the EP are fully aware of that fact...

Oh and isn't it refreshing that at least the members of the EP kept their word AND in the stated year as well !

Now maybe Prayuth and co can learn from that ? Elections in 2015 2016, 2017 rinse and repeat..

Edited May 22, 2016 by sjaak327

[Winniedapu]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

And the same document makes it clear that the junta *did* in fact block YL from attending the requested European meeting, though I'm sure no thanks will accrue for reminding the junta-huggers of that fact.\

Besides, if she were prevented from travelling because of a court hearing, why did the court not issue an order to that effect. YL had guaranteed a return for the court hearing since the meeting in Europe and the date of the court hearing did not conflict.

So any defence of the junta by Rubi or whoever is completely bogus. More ridicule.

Winnie

The sad fact is that the junta doesn't need a court order, they can and did prevent her from travelling.

The fact that she is accused, but not yet convicted of "negligence" has nothing at all to do with the reason for the Junta preventing Yingluck from attending. And other then some of the Junta supporters, the members of the EP are fully aware of that fact...

Oh and isn't it refreshing that at least the members of the EP kept their word AND in the stated year as well !

Now maybe Prayuth and co can learn from that ? Elections in 2015 2016, 2017 rinse and repeat..

Call me a cynic, but ever since Prayuth said there would be an election in June 2017 (which somehow morphed into 'sometime in 2017' and then to 'late 2017' and now to 'when we finish another draft if this draft is rejected'), I have believed him and all his acolytes to be lying in their teeth.

The reason for the desperate rescheduling of elections is that the army is waiting for a certain event because they distrust a certain person and want to be in position with sufficient power and authority (even if that is only guns and tanks) to make sure the interests of their sponsors are preserved, precisely because they do not trust that business will be taken care of in the time-honoured way.

I am in no doubt whatever that the coup was the culmination of a long conspiracy, and when the YL government tried, inadvisedly, to give people, including Thaksin an amnesty, the perfect opportunity presented itself, as the conspirators well knew would appear one day. The conspiracy certainly involved not only Suthep and his drones, the Democrats and their drones, the Permanent Secretaries, the courts, the election commission and other NGO's and many others. It was breathtakingly large and it came as no surprise whatever when Suthep bragged that he and Prayuth had been conspiring for years to bring about the conditions where a coup could be rationalised. It would certainly have taken years to manage that scale of conspiracy.

Certain documents sent to certain people had already been written, which on it's own gives the lie to Prayuth when he said it was a spur of the moment decision to seize power. Sorry, but that tale is only for children and crack-heads.

Unfortunately, all the conspiracy in the world will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and neither will it make an army general widely considered to have assets from corruption that he does not want public scrutiny of, into a competent manager of a country.

It is clear from his speeches after the coup, that he believed he was the saviour of Thailand and was a genius who could see and would solve all of it's problems. Predictably, he is not and never could be, he is (in my qualified view) an unstable personality with at least 2 of the dark triad contributors, which together make him an extremely dangerous man. Thailand has had dangerous leaders before, Suchinda is perhaps the most memorable, and interestingly, Suchinda was supported and contributed to by many of the same people that Prayuth has gathered around him.. Notable Meechai, who apparently also drafted a constitution for him.

It is the emerging obvious failure of this combination of treason, wishful thinking and delusions of grandeur that bring us to where we are today. Putin is not a fool. There is no doubt in my mind that he sees through this clown with all the ease and clarity that I and many others do, including representatives of the USA, China and the EU.

Incompetence, combined with arrogance and a messiah complex will bring this clown down. I believe that if the real power behind him (Prawit/Prem etc) also see this, then he will be thrown under the bus, perhaps as a consequence of being unable to get the referendum passed, I don't know. If not, it's because he knows where bodies are buried, and I have no doubt he is paranoid enough to have kept documents showing exactly who was involved in the treasonous conspiracy and when and for how long. It's a time-bomb if true, and will shake Thailand to its core if it ever gets out. That may yet save him from being a sacrificial goat, but it may well bring Thailand to the brink of ruin or beyond.

Their have been other machinations overseas since the year that saw Thaksin ousted, to bring about a failed state or a civil war in order to allow the problems contributing to the current position to be addressed. Knock it down and start again appears to be the only course left, because in my opinion, Thailand is already finished, already irredeemable - irreparable.

I suppose we'll see. If either scenario eventuates, then Thais will need all of their resourcefulness because there will be serious changes. Looking carefully at Prawit, Paochinda, Paiboon - particularly Paiboon, and of course Udomdej and Prayuth, I believe theree are signs that they they can already see the wheels beginning to fall off and to smell their own demise. If I'm right then I can foresee increasingly desperate action in the lead-up to and in the aftermath of the referendum in August, whatever the result. If the draft constitution does not pass, then all bets are off, the government will have been called out and the shit will interface with the fan. If the referendum does pass, the army will take that as carte-blanche approval from the people to do whatever is necessary to ensure the feudal barons stay in power. I think we can look to military rule for another 20 years if that is the case, and there will be no elections (the government is likely to claim that a mandate from the people will have already been gained via the referendum). At that time, I suspect the international sanctions against Thailand which are pending will happen. The perfect storm.

In my personal opinion.

And to cap it all, serious floods in Bangkok this autumn.

Happy days...

Winnie

Edited May 22, 2016 by Winniedapu

[phoenixdoglover]

I would commend to everyone a look at the youtube videos available for recent FCCT (Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand) events.

There is a distinct difference between the expressions (choice of words) used by foreign correspondents and Thai journalists. At times, the halting, strangled words and body language of the Thai journalists, shows the internal conflict they are experiencing.

In their defense, I am impressed by the editorials in BP. They are critical of the current government. It is a shame we do not get these items posted to TVF.

Also, as a related matter the latest FCCT video reveals that 20 foreign journalists have been denied visas to work in Thailand since the Junta introduced new restrictions. It is clear the agenda is to reduce the number of outsiders and to keep the Thai press relatively compliant.

Of course no government is required to accept foreign journalists especially when from countries which give the impression to be as negative as their representatives here on this forum.

BTW it would seem every country has different rules. The Belgium Government site has

"Are you eligible to apply for a temporary press card from FPS Foreign Affairs?

YES

• You are not of Belgian nationality and you work for a foreign media organisation.
• Journalism is your main professional activity and is how you earn a living in Belgium."
• http://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/Newsroom/journalists_corner/accreditation

Of course with such requirements only journalists ALREADY working in the country could get a press card.

America also has certain rules and regulations.

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/employment/media.html

So, for the time being we rely on facebook pages like the one with "democracy died this day"

No, rubl, you do not understand what you are reading. The regulation requires that you be a professional journalist: which applies to your main activity, and your source of income while in Belgium.

By the way, you are the only one on this thread who seems to think what Yingluck said back when she was impeached by the Junta-appointed Parliament as relevant to the discussions she had recently with the EU Parliament reps.

For all those wondering, she posted this on Facebook in January 2015: “Democracy has died in Thailand today, along with the rule of law. That move to destroy me is still ongoing and I face it now."

I personally take that statement as poetic, but essentially factual.

And for those who want the more complete understanding of the EP delegates' areas of focus on their visit to Thailand, here is one account from The Nation

"The European Parliament delegation yesterday called on Thailand to come up with inclusive reform for democracy to ensure smooth relations with the European Union (EU).

The process includes allowing open debates among all stakeholders to make way for the public referendum and the government's road map to democracy, said Werner Langen, chair of the Delegation for Relations with the Countries of Southeast Asia and Asean.

Langen stressed that a return to democratic structures and free and fair elections were "important conditions" for the future development of Thai-EU relations"

more at

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Only-inclusive-reform-will-pave-the-way-to-democra-30286278.html

"Journalism is your main professional activity and is how you earn a living in Belgium"

'how you earn' is not the same as 'how you will earn'. Of course Belgians are NNES.

BTW although I seem the only one going on about 'democracy died', in your latest reply you seem to agree with me that that statement was really relevant. Of course Ms. Yingluck was a bit expansive in including rule of law and 'out to destroy me' in the same message, but that's what you have with Amply Rich elite people, they take being asked to show accountibility so personal.

Let's take your salient points one by one:

1. 'how you earn' is not the same as 'how you will earn'.

I am happy that you know the difference between present tense and future tense. However, you misunderstood the Belgian press visa rules, interpreting them to mean that they excluded journalists that were not already working in Belgium. In fact, Brussels is considered a press center for Europe because of the EU presence, and their visa rules clearly permit a wide variety of journalists to come and go on a temporary basis. Had you researched the matter more thoroughly, you would have come to this understanding.

2. Of course Belgians are NNES.

I have no idea what that means.

3. you seem to agree with me that that statement was really relevant

No, I do not agree, and I do not see how you could infer that from my comments.

4. Ms. Yingluck was a bit expansive in including rule of law and 'out to destroy me' in the same message

I do not agree.

- Regarding 'rule of law', Yingluck was impeached by the Junta appointed NLA. This undermines the rule of law on two points: Firstly, under the last extant Constitution (2007) there is no provision for impeaching an ex-official; impeachment is for removal from office, and applies to officials who are in office. Secondly, the only way the NLA would have authority to impeach an ex-official (a nonsensical action, but there it is) would be for a law to be created to fit the situation and the person; in direct contravention of the rule of law. Of course, this is how the Junta is managing the law at present.

- Regarding 'out to destroy me', it is clear from the evidence at hand; impeachment, a ban from politics for 5 years, administrative rulings regarding money owed (sort of forgotten for the moment); a Supreme Court case. Whether these are justified actions by the State is a separate question. Whether they are designed to inflict grievous damage on Yingluck is without question.

5. that's what you have with Amply Rich elite people, they take being asked to show accountibility so personal

When Yingluck made the comments on Facebook, she had just been impeached by the appointed NLA. The NLA was not 'asking' her to 'show accountability', they were invoking a procedure to impose accountability (by removing her from office; an office she already was removed from by actions of the Court and the Junta) according to their reasons. Obviously, Yingluck considered the action unjustified, so a personal reaction was entirely appropriate, irrespective of her status or wealth.

As an aside, in another thread, you have suggested that the frequent use of "labels" undermines the credibility of the person who does that. Your use of the label "amply rich" is a good example of that. It is a lazy pejorative design to condition people to a point of view, in lieu of evidence or argument.

Edited May 22, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[rubl]

Of course no government is required to accept foreign journalists especially when from countries which give the impression to be as negative as their representatives here on this forum.

BTW it would seem every country has different rules. The Belgium Government site has

"Are you eligible to apply for a temporary press card from FPS Foreign Affairs?

YES

• You are not of Belgian nationality and you work for a foreign media organisation.
• Journalism is your main professional activity and is how you earn a living in Belgium."
• http://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/Newsroom/journalists_corner/accreditation

Of course with such requirements only journalists ALREADY working in the country could get a press card.

America also has certain rules and regulations.

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/employment/media.html

So, for the time being we rely on facebook pages like the one with "democracy died this day"

No, rubl, you do not understand what you are reading. The regulation requires that you be a professional journalist: which applies to your main activity, and your source of income while in Belgium.

By the way, you are the only one on this thread who seems to think what Yingluck said back when she was impeached by the Junta-appointed Parliament as relevant to the discussions she had recently with the EU Parliament reps.

For all those wondering, she posted this on Facebook in January 2015: “Democracy has died in Thailand today, along with the rule of law. That move to destroy me is still ongoing and I face it now."

I personally take that statement as poetic, but essentially factual.

And for those who want the more complete understanding of the EP delegates' areas of focus on their visit to Thailand, here is one account from The Nation

"The European Parliament delegation yesterday called on Thailand to come up with inclusive reform for democracy to ensure smooth relations with the European Union (EU).

The process includes allowing open debates among all stakeholders to make way for the public referendum and the government's road map to democracy, said Werner Langen, chair of the Delegation for Relations with the Countries of Southeast Asia and Asean.

Langen stressed that a return to democratic structures and free and fair elections were "important conditions" for the future development of Thai-EU relations"

more at

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Only-inclusive-reform-will-pave-the-way-to-democra-30286278.html

"Journalism is your main professional activity and is how you earn a living in Belgium"

'how you earn' is not the same as 'how you will earn'. Of course Belgians are NNES.

BTW although I seem the only one going on about 'democracy died', in your latest reply you seem to agree with me that that statement was really relevant. Of course Ms. Yingluck was a bit expansive in including rule of law and 'out to destroy me' in the same message, but that's what you have with Amply Rich elite people, they take being asked to show accountibility so personal.

Let's take your salient points one by one:

1. 'how you earn' is not the same as 'how you will earn'.

I am happy that you know the difference between present tense and future tense. However, you misunderstood the Belgian press visa rules, interpreting them to mean that they excluded journalists that were not already working in Belgium. In fact, Brussels is considered a press center for Europe because of the EU presence, and their visa rules clearly permit a wide variety of journalists to come and go on a temporary basis. Had you researched the matter more thoroughly, you would have come to this understanding.

2. Of course Belgians are NNES.

I have no idea what that means.

3. you seem to agree with me that that statement was really relevant

No, I do not agree, and I do not see how you could infer that from my comments.

4. Ms. Yingluck was a bit expansive in including rule of law and 'out to destroy me' in the same message

I do not agree.

- Regarding 'rule of law', Yingluck was impeached by the Junta appointed NLA. This undermines the rule of law on two points: Firstly, under the last extant Constitution (2007) there is no provision for impeaching an ex-official; impeachment is for removal from office, and applies to officials who are in office. Secondly, the only way the NLA would have authority to impeach an ex-official (a nonsensical action, but there it is) would be for a law to be created to fit the situation and the person; in direct contravention of the rule of law. Of course, this is how the Junta is managing the law at present.

- Regarding 'out to destroy me', it is clear from the evidence at hand; impeachment, a ban from politics for 5 years, administrative rulings regarding money owed (sort of forgotten for the moment); a Supreme Court case. Whether these are justified actions by the State is a separate question. Whether they are designed to inflict grievous damage on Yingluck is without question.

5. that's what you have with Amply Rich elite people, they take being asked to show accountibility so personal

When Yingluck made the comments on Facebook, she had just been impeached by the appointed NLA. The NLA was not 'asking' her to 'show accountability', they were invoking a procedure to impose accountability (by removing her from office; an office she already was removed from by actions of the Court and the Junta) according to their reasons. Obviously, Yingluck considered the action unjustified, so a personal reaction was entirely appropriate, irrespective of her status or wealth.

As an aside, in another thread, you have suggested that the frequent use of "labels" undermines the credibility of the person who does that. Your use of the label "amply rich" is a good example of that. It is a lazy pejorative design to condition people to a point of view, in lieu of evidence or argument.

Of course I only use "Amply Rich" in connection with people who are associated with Amply Rich Investment shell company based in the British Virgin Islands, not as a label for others.

Now as for the EP commission on Foreign Affairs coming to Thailand to hear Ms. Yingluck''s view on democracy, that's hilarious. Ms. Yingluck's facebook page with "democracy died today" posted on the day she was impeached and asked to show accountability regarding her 500++ billion Baht losing 'self-financing' RPPS should be enough even for MEPs.

[rubl]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

And the same document makes it clear that the junta *did* in fact block YL from attending the requested European meeting, though I'm sure no thanks will accrue for reminding the junta-huggers of that fact.\

Besides, if she were prevented from travelling because of a court hearing, why did the court not issue an order to that effect. YL had guaranteed a return for the court hearing since the meeting in Europe and the date of the court hearing did not conflict.

So any defence of the junta by Rubi or whoever is completely bogus. More ridicule.

Winnie

bogus: "not genuine or true; fake"

Luckily I do not need nor am I defending a junta otherwise I could feel offended by your insult.

[ravip]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And it seems there's a lot of politicians here at TVF too.

[rubl]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

Read again, my dear Winnie. The government didn't forbid a meeting, the government did not give Ms. Yingluck permission to travel as she's expected in court. Surely all those admirers who always wait for her to arrive at court would be mightily disappointed if she didn't show up.

Between the subpoena and the prosecutors putting together the charge and the appointment of judges; plenty of time and really no legal reasons as to why the junta cannot let her go. But as the junta PM said "she can't even go out to eat a bowl of noodles without his permission", we certainly see the abuse of power.

Ms. Yingluck asked for permission to go to Japan as she had promised to show her son around and when she was there she dropped him with friends and had a nice long chat with her brother.

So, Ms. Yingluck remaining in Thailand and lots of people like that as it gives them a chance to condemn the junta again.

[rubl]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

Ah ja, the press report explaining the "importance of having an exchange of views with Ms. Yingluck at the earliest" and suggesting an 'open debat in European Parliament'. They meant in the building of course, not 'with' EP.

The last sentence also seems to suggest they will come back yet another time as they didn't meet parliament, government representatives, civil society and opposition leaders. Probably lack of time, busy those EP commission members.

Anyway the commission had their 'exchange of views', Ms. Yingluck no longer needs to go to Europe.

Edited May 22, 2016 by rubl

[rubl]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

Which the junta, terrified that the EU would hear something other than their lies, forbade.

Winnie

Read again, my dear Winnie. The government didn't forbid a meeting, the government did not give Ms. Yingluck permission to travel as she's expected in court. Surely all those admirers who always wait for her to arrive at court would be mightily disappointed if she didn't show up.

Rubi, Rubi. Have you not learned from serial metaphorical kickings in this and other forums, that you cannot dissemble like this and expect to retain some semblance of credibility. Are you so much a junta fanboi that you are prepared day after day, to subject yourself to ridicule? Or is it that you genuinely don't know you are being ridiculed?

The junta never forbade Yingluck from meeting the European Parliament at their invitation. They only prevented her from travelling to do so.

Dear God, If someone else said that, you'd laugh in derision. At least I hope you would because only a complete dolt would think it a reasonable statement to make.

Winnie

Well, the commission did come here and was allowed an 'exchange of views' with Ms. Yingluck on their own.

And no I do not laugh in derision, I leave that to those who have a need for such to bolster their own standing.

[Your Thainess]

This thread should is remarkable for one reason. The worst, most asinine quoting (whether done properly or not) I have ever witnessed, and hardly a clever or insightful word spoken. Well done, guys.

[Your Thainess]

... With the exception of Winnie's comments, my apologies

[phoenixdoglover]

Of course I only use "Amply Rich" in connection with people who are associated with Amply Rich Investment shell company based in the British Virgin Islands, not as a label for others.

Now as for the EP commission on Foreign Affairs coming to Thailand to hear Ms. Yingluck''s view on democracy, that's hilarious. Ms. Yingluck's facebook page with "democracy died today" posted on the day she was impeached and asked to show accountability regarding her 500++ billion Baht losing 'self-financing' RPPS should be enough even for MEPs.

Of course I only use "Amply Rich" in connection with people who are associated with Amply Rich Investment shell company based in the British Virgin Islands, not as a label for others.

Of course. Not that it lends any credence to your comments. With similar justification, I could label you in every reply as "The Parrot Rubl", given your documented propensity on this forum of repeating the same phrases over and over again as non-responsive rejoinders (see above). But my use of that label would not lend any weight to my arguments, and would cast me as a petty, uncreative troll. Do you see how that works? It is offensive to our shared intelligence, which we try to create through this written conversation.

Good Night.

Edited May 22, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[phycokiller]

Call me a cynic, but ever since Prayuth said there would be an election in June 2017 (which somehow morphed into 'sometime in 2017' and then to 'late 2017' and now to 'when we finish another draft if this draft is rejected'), I have believed him and all his acolytes to be lying in their teeth.

The reason for the desperate rescheduling of elections is that the army is waiting for a certain event because they distrust a certain person and want to be in position with sufficient power and authority (even if that is only guns and tanks) to make sure the interests of their sponsors are preserved, precisely because they do not trust that business will be taken care of in the time-honoured way.

I dont think its that they distrust someone, they just want to be sure the public accepts the new situation, because theres a good chance a lot wont

[sjaak327]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

Ah ja, the press report explaining the "importance of having an exchange of views with Ms. Yingluck at the earliest" and suggesting an 'open debat in European Parliament'. They meant in the building of course, not 'with' EP.

The last sentence also seems to suggest they will come back yet another time as they didn't meet parliament, government representatives, civil society and opposition leaders. Probably lack of time, busy those EP commission members.

Anyway the commission had their 'exchange of views', Ms. Yingluck no longer needs to go to Europe.

Yingluck IS opposition of course, as stated in the linked letter. Reading reading.

[dageurreotype]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

And the EU, a bunch of non elected self serving plutocrats talking about democracy? Please

[sjaak327]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

And the EU, a bunch of non elected self serving plutocrats talking about democracy? Please

Maybe you should not comment on matters you know nothing about ? All members of the EP are elected by the general population.

[dageurreotype]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

And the EU, a bunch of non elected self serving plutocrats talking about democracy? Please

Maybe you should not comment on matters you know nothing about ? All members of the EP are elected by the general population.

The POSTER said the 'UE' which I assume is a mistake, and if you need further information on that little cartel you could watch 'Brexit, The Movie' and educate yourself.

[Plutojames88]

There was a discussion on Ms. Yingluck being invited for 'talks' in Brussels or Strasbourg at her convenience. And a second letter explaining that Ms. Yingluck's presence was urgently requested since it was important. Nothing more.

So, this visit comes in place of Ms. Yingluck's trip to Europe.

No it does not.

a little reminder:https://issuu.com/neweuropenewspaper/docs/press_release_invitation_ys

The last sentence of linked letter, specifically talks about the visit we are now discussing.

Reading IS an art some people haven't yet mastered

And the same document makes it clear that the junta *did* in fact block YL from attending the requested European meeting, though I'm sure no thanks will accrue for reminding the junta-huggers of that fact.\

Besides, if she were prevented from travelling because of a court hearing, why did the court not issue an order to that effect. YL had guaranteed a return for the court hearing since the meeting in Europe and the date of the court hearing did not conflict.

So any defence of the junta by Rubi or whoever is completely bogus. More ridicule.

Winnie

The sad fact is that the junta doesn't need a court order, they can and did prevent her from travelling.

The fact that she is accused, but not yet convicted of "negligence" has nothing at all to do with the reason for the Junta preventing Yingluck from attending. And other then some of the Junta supporters, the members of the EP are fully aware of that fact...

Oh and isn't it refreshing that at least the members of the EP kept their word AND in the stated year as well !

Now maybe Prayuth and co can learn from that ? Elections in 2015 2016, 2017 rinse and repeat..

Call me a cynic, but ever since Prayuth said there would be an election in June 2017 (which somehow morphed into 'sometime in 2017' and then to 'late 2017' and now to 'when we finish another draft if this draft is rejected'), I have believed him and all his acolytes to be lying in their teeth.

The reason for the desperate rescheduling of elections is that the army is waiting for a certain event because they distrust a certain person and want to be in position with sufficient power and authority (even if that is only guns and tanks) to make sure the interests of their sponsors are preserved, precisely because they do not trust that business will be taken care of in the time-honoured way.

I am in no doubt whatever that the coup was the culmination of a long conspiracy, and when the YL government tried, inadvisedly, to give people, including Thaksin an amnesty, the perfect opportunity presented itself, as the conspirators well knew would appear one day. The conspiracy certainly involved not only Suthep and his drones, the Democrats and their drones, the Permanent Secretaries, the courts, the election commission and other NGO's and many others. It was breathtakingly large and it came as no surprise whatever when Suthep bragged that he and Prayuth had been conspiring for years to bring about the conditions where a coup could be rationalised. It would certainly have taken years to manage that scale of conspiracy.

Certain documents sent to certain people had already been written, which on it's own gives the lie to Prayuth when he said it was a spur of the moment decision to seize power. Sorry, but that tale is only for children and crack-heads.

Unfortunately, all the conspiracy in the world will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and neither will it make an army general widely considered to have assets from corruption that he does not want public scrutiny of, into a competent manager of a country.

It is clear from his speeches after the coup, that he believed he was the saviour of Thailand and was a genius who could see and would solve all of it's problems. Predictably, he is not and never could be, he is (in my qualified view) an unstable personality with at least 2 of the dark triad contributors, which together make him an extremely dangerous man. Thailand has had dangerous leaders before, Suchinda is perhaps the most memorable, and interestingly, Suchinda was supported and contributed to by many of the same people that Prayuth has gathered around him.. Notable Meechai, who apparently also drafted a constitution for him.

It is the emerging obvious failure of this combination of treason, wishful thinking and delusions of grandeur that bring us to where we are today. Putin is not a fool. There is no doubt in my mind that he sees through this clown with all the ease and clarity that I and many others do, including representatives of the USA, China and the EU.

Incompetence, combined with arrogance and a messiah complex will bring this clown down. I believe that if the real power behind him (Prawit/Prem etc) also see this, then he will be thrown under the bus, perhaps as a consequence of being unable to get the referendum passed, I don't know. If not, it's because he knows where bodies are buried, and I have no doubt he is paranoid enough to have kept documents showing exactly who was involved in the treasonous conspiracy and when and for how long. It's a time-bomb if true, and will shake Thailand to its core if it ever gets out. That may yet save him from being a sacrificial goat, but it may well bring Thailand to the brink of ruin or beyond.

Their have been other machinations overseas since the year that saw Thaksin ousted, to bring about a failed state or a civil war in order to allow the problems contributing to the current position to be addressed. Knock it down and start again appears to be the only course left, because in my opinion, Thailand is already finished, already irredeemable - irreparable.

I suppose we'll see. If either scenario eventuates, then Thais will need all of their resourcefulness because there will be serious changes. Looking carefully at Prawit, Paochinda, Paiboon - particularly Paiboon, and of course Udomdej and Prayuth, I believe theree are signs that they they can already see the wheels beginning to fall off and to smell their own demise. If I'm right then I can foresee increasingly desperate action in the lead-up to and in the aftermath of the referendum in August, whatever the result. If the draft constitution does not pass, then all bets are off, the government will have been called out and the shit will interface with the fan. If the referendum does pass, the army will take that as carte-blanche approval from the people to do whatever is necessary to ensure the feudal barons stay in power. I think we can look to military rule for another 20 years if that is the case, and there will be no elections (the government is likely to claim that a mandate from the people will have already been gained via the referendum). At that time, I suspect the international sanctions against Thailand which are pending will happen. The perfect storm.

In my personal opinion.

And to cap it all, serious floods in Bangkok this autumn.

Happy days...

Winnie

I agree with what I consider to be an insightful assessment above ....but might add more grimmer outcome in the event of a yes .

Which I think can be "" manufactured""

Even if in fact it is not even that .

( a mandate)

A coup within a coup is not altogether impossible .

At the very least I see the peace and calm of Thailand dramatically ended within a two year period possibly sooner.

And on a scale where people residing they now would not wish to experience.

The place is a powder Keg with the appearence of a carnival .

Politically it's safety net is gone.

Internationally sanctions are less than 12 months out.

I see Thailand lurching violently as the military sense as suggested their own demise.

And power plays are launched.

The whole landscape of players is very much in play.

It's a false sense of security to think all is well.

I believe a manufactured Yes will be obtained.

And within months a destabilising time begin.

Expats need to develop an exit plan even if its never put into action.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Plutojames88