Carry cash out of Thailand - Implications?

[ripstanley]

None because the limit is US$ 20,000 (or equilivent) before reporting is required.

Oh! I thought the limit was $US10,000. Then I just have to get it converted before I leave and make no declaration, in Thailand at least. Thankyou.

To my knowledge there still is a declaration of over $10k entering or leaving the US. The 20k limit is Thailand's limit...

The op is travelling to AUSTRALIA not USA. The amount for the declaration to be made when arriving in AUSTRALIA is currency epuivelent to AUS$10,0000.00 or over.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Your questions should be researched by a competent, licensed, highly recommended law firm if you are transporting a large sum of money.

The answers should be in writing.

Then confirmed by customs in Thailand and customs in the country you are going to.

Current laws and policies regarding currency change like the direction of the wind now with the current worldwide financial situation.

By depending on a forum, you are putting your money at risk.

If the sum you are transporting is over the limit you risk losing part of it, even all of it, and or being detained and paying large fines.

You want the answers in writing because if the money was ceased, your defense would be the letter from the law firm. You could also file a claim with their errors and omissions, professional liability Insurance carrier to recover lost funds if they provided incorrect information.

A bit of overkill don't you think? The amounts in question are probably in the range of US $ 10-20k...hardly allot of money for most people.

I am sure the law on bring in or out of Australia is clearly spelled out on the countries customs web site, For currency in/out of the USA is:

Travelers leaving or entering the U.S. are required to report negotiable monetary instruments (i.e. currency or endorsed checks) valued at $10,000 or more on a "Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments" form FinCEN 105.

Want to carry more money, use legal tender gold coins issued by various national treasuries. American gold Eagles have a face value of US$ 50 but a "real" value of about $1250 at current gold prices. Want to bring in/out 20k without reporting buy 16 Eagles with a legal tender value of US$ 800.

[jacksam]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Have you and others suggesting using ATMs to access cash looked at the poor exchange rate and also bank charges for making ATM withdrawal.

I recently returned from visit to my home country AU. I withdrew 30kaud and travelled into los. Changed it at super rich. At that time got about almost one baht more than banks on offer here and perhaps more if I had used bank transfer from my AU bank to my Thai bank account.

That's about 30k baht. Or 4 months rent here.

[Time Traveller]

Why carry cash at all?

Keep it in your bank and use an ATM when you need some.

Easier and much safer than having a lot of cash on you when you travel.

Yes, it's safer until you lose your card, or card gets skimmed and acct siphoned or if the bank decides to freeze your account or if you need a large sum to pay for some major purchase and don't want to do 30 withdrawals with 30 ATM fees eating away at the balance. Apart from that totally safe.

[hawker9000]

Why carry cash at all?

Keep it in your bank and use an ATM when you need some.

Easier and much safer than having a lot of cash on you when you travel.

Well, to answer the question, one word - fees!

It's actually an oft-discussed topic around here; 'surprised to even see the question asked. (It is possible to open a Thai bank account, but then again - fees, as in wire xfr fees.)

[rapom]

None because the limit is US$ 20,000 (or equilivent) before reporting is required.

Oh! I thought the limit was $US10,000. Then I just have to get it converted before I leave and make no declaration, in Thailand at least. Thankyou.

To my knowledge there still is a declaration of over $10k entering or leaving the US. The 20k limit is Thailand's limit...

The op is travelling to AUSTRALIA not USA. The amount for the declaration to be made when arriving in AUSTRALIA is currency epuivelent to AUS$10,0000.00 or over.

I always proofread before I send a post.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Why carry cash at all?

Keep it in your bank and use an ATM when you need some.

Easier and much safer than having a lot of cash on you when you travel.

Yes, it's safer until you lose your card, or card gets skimmed and acct siphoned or if the bank decides to freeze your account or if you need a large sum to pay for some major purchase and don't want to do 30 withdrawals with 30 ATM fees eating away at the balance. Apart from that totally safe.

One call to the bank freezes and cancels a lost card and a replacement can be issued. 25 years of using ATM cards and no skims...so chance of being a victim minimal. In any case, easy to set low daily withdrawl limits and set up SMS/email transaction notifications to detect immediately any unauthorized card use. What are you buying that you need 30 max. withdrawls...a wife?

[RBOP]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Slightly off topic but just a heads up for everyone. I took a friend to open an account at Bangkok Bank last week. He asked for an ATM card that could be used in an ATM overseas. He was told that Bangkok Bank was now only issuing cards that could be used in Bangkok Bank ATM's in Thailand and could not be used at all in other countries from now on. The reason stated was security. My old Bkk Bank card still works in other ATM's and outside the country but after it expires, the new one will not work in anything other than a Bkk Bank ATM in Thailand.

I highly doubt the veracity of this report...it doesn't make any sense. The only recent change regarding debit cards is they are only issuing "chipped" cards now. You and your friend must have been confused by what the bank told you. One of the purposes of these new chip cards is to conform to international banking and ATM/POS machine standards,

About a year and half ago when I asked Bangkok Bank about the new chip ATM card working in other countries they said not yet. Only Thailand and not many atm's yet either. Last week I asked the bank if the chip atm card was set up yet to work in other countries. They said yes. Tehri website says "Be1st Visa Debit card you can use it to make purchases at stores in Thailand and in 200 countries worldwide displaying the VISA sign". But I think they said it wasn't set up yet to work in the US and some other countries.

[eeeya]

why not convert your money to diamonds. and just bring them in your pocket.

any tuk tuk should be able to direct you where to buy

[Robm579]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Slightly off topic but just a heads up for everyone. I took a friend to open an account at Bangkok Bank last week. He asked for an ATM card that could be used in an ATM overseas. He was told that Bangkok Bank was now only issuing cards that could be used in Bangkok Bank ATM's in Thailand and could not be used at all in other countries from now on. The reason stated was security. My old Bkk Bank card still works in other ATM's and outside the country but after it expires, the new one will not work in anything other than a Bkk Bank ATM in Thailand.

I highly doubt the veracity of this report...it doesn't make any sense. The only recent change regarding debit cards is they are only issuing "chipped" cards now. You and your friend must have been confused by what the bank told you. One of the purposes of these new chip cards is to conform to international banking and ATM/POS machine standards,

I was told the same by Bkk in chaing Mai... That their ATM cards would not work abroad... I had to take cash .. No other option for withdrawing cash in Taiwan...

[OMGImInPattaya]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Slightly off topic but just a heads up for everyone. I took a friend to open an account at Bangkok Bank last week. He asked for an ATM card that could be used in an ATM overseas. He was told that Bangkok Bank was now only issuing cards that could be used in Bangkok Bank ATM's in Thailand and could not be used at all in other countries from now on. The reason stated was security. My old Bkk Bank card still works in other ATM's and outside the country but after it expires, the new one will not work in anything other than a Bkk Bank ATM in Thailand.

I highly doubt the veracity of this report...it doesn't make any sense. The only recent change regarding debit cards is they are only issuing "chipped" cards now. You and your friend must have been confused by what the bank told you. One of the purposes of these new chip cards is to conform to international banking and ATM/POS machine standards,

I was told the same by Bkk in chaing Mai... That their ATM cards would not work abroad... I had to take cash .. No other option for withdrawing cash in Taiwan...

Thai banks often have different types of ATM cards...it's not like in more developed countries where banks generally have just one type that works everywhere.

Thai banks have cards that are only for domestic use and ones that can be used both in Thailand and internationally. There are different prices for the cards, with the international ones costing more. With foreigners, bank staff will usually automatically sell you an international card but it is good to verify, if you need one, that your card is an international one. Ask them: "Is this an inter-card?"

[DrDave]

why not convert your money to diamonds. and just bring them in your pocket.

any tuk tuk should be able to direct you where to buy

Very risky to try to get around currency import restrictions by converting currency to other assets.

Converting Baht to gold, diamonds or the like, then carrying them on a flight will attract significant duty charges and possibly fines if discovered by customs on arrival. Even if declared, duty will be charged for the value in excess of the free allowance. If not declared, or under-declared there are additional potentially severe penalties.

[OMGImInPattaya]

why not convert your money to diamonds. and just bring them in your pocket.

any tuk tuk should be able to direct you where to buy

Very risky to try to get around currency import restrictions by converting currency to other assets.

Converting Baht to gold, diamonds or the like, then carrying them on a flight will attract significant duty charges and possibly fines if discovered by customs on arrival. Even if declared, duty will be charged for the value in excess of the free allowance. If not declared, or under-declared there are additional potentially severe penalties.

But not, as i suggested, for gold, silver, or other precious metal bullion coins with low face values that are legal tender in the issuing countries. That's why there is no sales or capital gains tax on the purchase or sale of these items...because they are legal currency.

This only applies to coinage and not commemorative medals, medallions, or rounds/bars of metals issued by treasuries from time to time.

Edited May 31, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[aussiep]

Definitely do not carry the money as Thai baht to Australia, or any other country. Otherwise, you'll lose a lot of money with the very poor exchange rate.

Hi if the rate is the best it's been for over a year...

Your going home and coming back in 6 months.

smart, take home about 20,000 thb...

when you come back..don't have to worry about changing money for a few days.

The rate maybe better when you come back...But......

With the AUD going up and down.......who knows...

aussiep

[Naam]

why not convert your money to diamonds. and just bring them in your pocket.

any tuk tuk should be able to direct you where to buy

Very risky to try to get around currency import restrictions by converting currency to other assets.

Converting Baht to gold, diamonds or the like, then carrying them on a flight will attract significant duty charges and possibly fines if discovered by customs on arrival. Even if declared, duty will be charged for the value in excess of the free allowance. If not declared, or under-declared there are additional potentially severe penalties.

But not, as i suggested, for gold, silver, or other precious metal bullion coins with low face values that are legal tender in the issuing countries. That's why there is no sales or capital gains tax on the purchase or sale of these items...because they are legal currency.

This only applies to coinage and not commemorative medals, medallions, or rounds/bars of metals issued by treasuries from time to time.

the United States Internal Revenue Service (aka IRS) does not agree with your theories and that applies to other tax and customs authorities in various countries/juridictions too.

in short... the legal tender story is nothing but a fairy tale.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Naam

[DrDave]

But not, as i suggested, for gold, silver, or other precious metal bullion coins with low face values that are legal tender in the issuing countries. That's why there is no sales or capital gains tax on the purchase or sale of these items...because they are legal currency.

This only applies to coinage and not commemorative medals, medallions, or rounds/bars of metals issued by treasuries from time to time.

the United States Internal Revenue Service (aka IRS) does not agree with your theories and that applies to other tax and customs authorities in various countries/juridictions too.

in short... the legal tender story is nothing but a fairy tale.

That's the same conclusion I came to after looking at the US Customs and Border Patrol website.

While there's no duty on currency (including coins), the value still must be declared upon entry for "tracking" purposes.

Coins can only be considered currency, however, if they are in circulation, and are customarily accepted as a medium of exchange. I doubt that $100 Gold Eagles would pass the "currency" test using face value, and would thus be subject to duty based upon the real value of the coins, not the face value.

I wouldn't risk it.

[OMGImInPattaya]

But not, as i suggested, for gold, silver, or other precious metal bullion coins with low face values that are legal tender in the issuing countries. That's why there is no sales or capital gains tax on the purchase or sale of these items...because they are legal currency.

This only applies to coinage and not commemorative medals, medallions, or rounds/bars of metals issued by treasuries from time to time.

the United States Internal Revenue Service (aka IRS) does not agree with your theories and that applies to other tax and customs authorities in various countries/juridictions too.

in short... the legal tender story is nothing but a fairy tale.

That's the same conclusion I came to after looking at the US Customs and Border Patrol website.

While there's no duty on currency (including coins), the value still must be declared upon entry for "tracking" purposes.

Coins can only be considered currency, however, if they are in circulation, and are customarily accepted as a medium of exchange. I doubt that $100 Gold Eagles would pass the "currency" test using face value, and would thus be subject to duty based upon the real value of the coins, not the face value.

I wouldn't risk it.

If you are a UK citizen they are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/10446575/Why-investing-in-gold-coins-rather-than-funds-cuts-your-tax-bill.html

In any case, unlike paper financial assets, there are no government reporting requirements for purchases or sales (amounts or prices) by either the seller/dealer or the buyer [except for sales of 25 or more oz at a time], so for all practical purposes there is no capital gains tax.

[lensta]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Slightly off topic but just a heads up for everyone. I took a friend to open an account at Bangkok Bank last week. He asked for an ATM card that could be used in an ATM overseas. He was told that Bangkok Bank was now only issuing cards that could be used in Bangkok Bank ATM's in Thailand and could not be used at all in other countries from now on. The reason stated was security. My old Bkk Bank card still works in other ATM's and outside the country but after it expires, the new one will not work in anything other than a Bkk Bank ATM in Thailand.

I highly doubt the veracity of this report...it doesn't make any sense. The only recent change regarding debit cards is they are only issuing "chipped" cards now. You and your friend must have been confused by what the bank told you. One of the purposes of these new chip cards is to conform to international banking and ATM/POS machine standards,

I agree it is crazy but my wife (Thai) asked the girl opening the account and she confirmed that this was the case. If you highly doubt it, I suggest that you try opening an acc at Bkk Bank and report back.

[Naam]

If you are a UK citizen they are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/10446575/Why-investing-in-gold-coins-rather-than-funds-cuts-your-tax-bill.html

In any case, unlike paper financial assets, there are no government reporting requirements for purchases or sales (amounts or prices) by either the seller/dealer or the buyer [except for sales of 25 or more oz at a time], so for all practical purposes there is no capital gains tax.

this thread is not about taxes when buying or selling but "moving value". pertaining to this specific problem is my comment "legal tender nominal value = fairy tale".

besides that, some countries, e.g. the U.S. of A., levies taxes on bullion capital gains whether ingots or legal tender. the U.S. has also established a reporting system and that applies to several European countries, e.g. France, Germany and Italy, too.

[Naam]

But not, as i suggested, for gold, silver, or other precious metal bullion coins with low face values that are legal tender in the issuing countries. That's why there is no sales or capital gains tax on the purchase or sale of these items...because they are legal currency.

This only applies to coinage and not commemorative medals, medallions, or rounds/bars of metals issued by treasuries from time to time.

the United States Internal Revenue Service (aka IRS) does not agree with your theories and that applies to other tax and customs authorities in various countries/juridictions too.

in short... the legal tender story is nothing but a fairy tale.

That's the same conclusion I came to after looking at the US Customs and Border Patrol website.

While there's no duty on currency (including coins), the value still must be declared upon entry for "tracking" purposes.

Coins can only be considered currency, however, if they are in circulation, and are customarily accepted as a medium of exchange. I doubt that $100 Gold Eagles would pass the "currency" test using face value, and would thus be subject to duty based upon the real value of the coins, not the face value.

I wouldn't risk it.

reporting applies to EU countries including UK and of course to Thailand no matter what misleading information can be found.

[OMGImInPattaya]

What are you talking about. ? Nearly all ATMs in OZ &, NZ, Singapora, Malaysia, Indo, Lao & Burma accept both my Thai ATM cards

Slightly off topic but just a heads up for everyone. I took a friend to open an account at Bangkok Bank last week. He asked for an ATM card that could be used in an ATM overseas. He was told that Bangkok Bank was now only issuing cards that could be used in Bangkok Bank ATM's in Thailand and could not be used at all in other countries from now on. The reason stated was security. My old Bkk Bank card still works in other ATM's and outside the country but after it expires, the new one will not work in anything other than a Bkk Bank ATM in Thailand.

I highly doubt the veracity of this report...it doesn't make any sense. The only recent change regarding debit cards is they are only issuing "chipped" cards now. You and your friend must have been confused by what the bank told you. One of the purposes of these new chip cards is to conform to international banking and ATM/POS machine standards,

I agree it is crazy but my wife (Thai) asked the girl opening the account and she confirmed that this was the case. If you highly doubt it, I suggest that you try opening an acc at Bkk Bank and report back.

I don't have too, I already have Siam Commercial and Krungsri international ATM Visa debit cards. I've used them on travels to Cambodia, Indonesia, and Singapore to withdraw money without incident. I guess this page on the opening page of Bangkok Bank's website is incorrect them...I always understood "worldwide" to mean outside Thailand. Silly me ?

Feel free to report back after you've notified Bangkok Bank that their website is out of date.

[OMGImInPattaya]

If you are a UK citizen they are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/10446575/Why-investing-in-gold-coins-rather-than-funds-cuts-your-tax-bill.html

In any case, unlike paper financial assets, there are no government reporting requirements for purchases or sales (amounts or prices) by either the seller/dealer or the buyer [except for sales of 25 or more oz at a time], so for all practical purposes there is no capital gains tax.

this thread is not about taxes when buying or selling but "moving value". pertaining to this specific problem is my comment "legal tender nominal value = fairy tale".

besides that, some countries, e.g. the U.S. of A., levies taxes on bullion capital gains whether ingots or legal tender. the U.S. has also established a reporting system and that applies to several European countries, e.g. France, Germany and Italy, too.

Incorrect.

[chainarong]

Whenever we carry more than $10k into Australia we split it up. The declaration is just a formality, but why attract attention?

U will if U tried for 20 grand on your own.