Raja Ferry Safety Sucks

[mosquitoman]

Im sure we are all aware of what scant regard Raja Ferries has for passenger welfare and safety.

I took these pictures on my journeys to and from the mainland last week.

These pictures of the inflatable liferaft service forms clearly show the company can not even get its act together to have there liferafts inspected or serviced on shedule

None of there liferafts I looked at had been inspected for 2 1/2 years or more and all were 1 1/2 years beyond there service date.

Furthermore these liferafts were manafactured almost 30 years ago, I would imagine that there must be some sought of "sell by date" whereby to meet maritime regs Raja should invest in new liferafts.

I wonder what there insurance company would make of all this?

MM

[pumpuiman]

Amazing, I am a ships captain by proffession, this is scary. Next time you are aboard, point it out to the captain,let him know he can lose his licence for this. Perhaps he will then bring it to the owners attention.

[mosquitoman]

Amazing, I am a ships captain by proffession, this is scary. Next time you are aboard, point it out to the captain,let him know he can lose his licence for this. Perhaps he will then bring it to the owners attention.

Even more astounding is that these are fairly large passenger ferries carrying up to say 250 people (women and children included) on 2 1/2 hour journeys.

I am to scared to starting pointing these things out to the captain or crew of the ferries, I live on Koh Pha Ngan and am worried about possible reprisals, if I were to start "rocking the boat"

MM

Edited November 10, 2006 by mosquitoman

[pumpuiman]

well I suggest bringing a lifejacket then.

[LaoPo]

Very scary stuff you wrote here.

If I were you I would send a letter to the appropriate authorities, like TAT, or even better, send a letter to the English newspapers in LOS, and if possible to the Thai- as well.

Complaining on this board, however very usefull info, doesn't really help or change the situation.

Publicity in the media helps!

LaoPo

[Master of the court]

Im sure we are all aware of what scant regard Raja Ferries has for passenger welfare and safety.

I took these pictures on my journeys to and from the mainland last week.

These pictures of the inflatable liferaft service forms clearly show the company can not even get its act together to have there liferafts inspected or serviced on shedule

None of there liferafts I looked at had been inspected for 2 1/2 years or more and all were 1 1/2 years beyond there service date.

Furthermore these liferafts were manafactured almost 30 years ago, I would imagine that there must be some sought of "sell by date" whereby to meet maritime regs Raja should invest in new liferafts.

I wonder what there insurance company would make of all this?

MM

Ha ha......welcome to Thailand.....then you should have experienced thailand 20 years ago !!

By the way, last time (may) I got on bangkok airways....to of the tires on the aircraft ATR 72 had no more rubber left.........

[Berty]

At least you've got lifeboats, I was on the boat to Koh Chang the other week, all the life jackets, we're bundled up and tied together on the roof of the snack bar, very useful!!!

Safety is always an after thought here!

[womble]

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

[mosquitoman]

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Edited November 11, 2006 by mosquitoman

[womble]

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Hmm ok, Although I think in general they are better are they not? Are the bigger companies such as Grand sea tours and pecharat not offering life jackets now and a little less overcrowding?

[highdiver]

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Hmm ok, Although I think in general they are better are they not? Are the bigger companies such as Grand sea tours and pecharat not offering life jackets now and a little less overcrowding?

Yes! the bigger companies like Petcherat marina are offering trained captains,life jackets and safty standards. they have allways offerd this standard and they count every person on the boat as to not to acceedd saftey limits. and that is why they charge more money.600 baht reurn

They are very frustrated as many tourists and locals seem to prefer the smaller non liscenced companies that charge 300-400 baht return. the only way for those companies that use 1 or 2 boats to make profit is by over crowding the boat and cutting down on safety. the same company that had the boat capcised last year is still running and still overcrowding the boats.

The state of the life boats on the ferry above and the FMP safety are shocking..

i hope that all those concerned with the wellfare of tourists will make meetings, voice out,even protest this shocking conditions. After all it is peoples lives.

Maybe the same ones who are so concerned with bangkok airways price increase.....will rally infront of the ferry and infront of those speed boat comapnies that are disregarding safety.

sorry Womble but you left yourself wide open for theat one....

[girlx]

i was never scared of boats until i was on the had rin queen from samui to phangan about 7 years ago. we hit some weird tropical storm halfway across and got really really jostled around. people were holding on for dear life, praying, crying. waves were coming over the boat. the lifejackets were in a locked trunk at the back.

[mosquitoman]

i was never scared of boats until i was on the had rin queen from samui to phangan about 7 years ago. we hit some weird tropical storm halfway across and got really really jostled around. people were holding on for dear life, praying, crying. waves were coming over the boat. the lifejackets were in a locked trunk at the back.

I wonder about the Haad Rin Queen sometimes, she is a fine boat, but it strikes me that she needs more ballast in her as she rolls an awfull lot even in relatively light seas.

MM

Edited November 11, 2006 by mosquitoman

[womble]

Yes and it always takes a tradgedy to get things sorted.

It took a boat to sink and lives lost for the FMP speed boats to be sorted, many of us had been saying for years it was only a matter if time.

The FMP speedboats are not sorted, they still get hoplessly over crowded most FMP especially during the small hours of the morning.

A friend of mine counted 39 people getting of a speedboat (sunset pier Haad Rin) that was licensed for 26 passengers during August FMP.

MM

Hmm ok, Although I think in general they are better are they not? Are the bigger companies such as Grand sea tours and pecharat not offering life jackets now and a little less overcrowding?

Maybe the same ones who are so concerned with bangkok airways price increase.....will rally infront of the ferry and infront of those speed boat comapnies that are disregarding safety.

sorry Womble but you left yourself wide open for theat one....

So there's a selection of operators charging from between 300 and 600 baht.

Isn't that just slightly different to the monopoly that bangkok air are running and over charging on?

And no I will not be one of those to Rally as it's not something wise for a foriegner to do in Thailand. Those who do though will have my moral support and I shall no doubt toot my horn at them as I drive past to show my support.

Instead of Rallying I shall vote with my feet and on all occasions where I am forced to take the most expensive class of seat I will fly from Surrat taking the ferry and then driving. There was an advert on Tv with flights with Air Asia for as low as 50 baht! I expect these are hard to get, but I know flights for 499 and 999 are not so hard to get. Whatever it is it will be considerably cheaper than bkk air, and I simply will not pay over 10,000 per person rtn out of principle.

[pumpuiman]

Someone should inform the Thai coast guard, as they are in charge of marine inspections. Perhaps an anonymous phone call or letter would suffice. Enclose those photo's as well.

[Rooo]

I think you should send the pics,with an explantion to Community newspaper & see if they have the guts to do a follow up & print a story.

It's printed in english & Thai, should cause a few red faces with the authorities.

[LaoPo]

I think you should send the pics,with an explantion to Community newspaper & see if they have the guts to do a follow up & print a story.

It's printed in english & Thai, should cause a few red faces with the authorities.

Agree !

Like I wrote in post 5:

Publicity in the media helps!

But it's not just about 'red faces', it's about safety for the passengers, day-in-day-out.

LaoPo

[highdiver]

I think you should send the pics,with an explantion to Community newspaper & see if they have the guts to do a follow up & print a story.

It's printed in english & Thai, should cause a few red faces with the authorities.

Agree !

Like I wrote in post 5:

Publicity in the media helps!

But it's not just about 'red faces', it's about safety for the passengers, day-in-day-out.

LaoPo

the local media ie: samui comunity and oter news magazines have a problem printing such stories as they rely on the same business to purchase advertising from them.

Its not different from any other country.

see if any media will run a story about coca cola or any other big advertiser.

.

The paper makes income from advertisers. A big advertiser will stop purchasing space in the news paper and the news paper will loose income

[womble]

I think you should send the pics,with an explantion to Community newspaper & see if they have the guts to do a follow up & print a story.

It's printed in english & Thai, should cause a few red faces with the authorities.

Agree !

Like I wrote in post 5:

Publicity in the media helps!

But it's not just about 'red faces', it's about safety for the passengers, day-in-day-out.

LaoPo

the local media ie: samui comunity and oter news magazines have a problem printing such stories as they rely on the same business to purchase advertising from them.

Its not different from any other country.

see if any media will run a story about coca cola or any other big advertiser.

.

The paper makes income from advertisers. A big advertiser will stop purchasing space in the news paper and the news paper will loose income

Ah but........

It's the advertisers who are running things properly. These cheaper companys do not advertise, they overcrowd the boats and they employ unqualified staff. This means they can charge 300 baht.

The larger companies on the other hand advertise, have qualified captains and have a certain degree of safety, you pay 600 baht, but your trip is infinatley safer.

I have seen an interview with Petcharat in community before and they moaned about the other companies. I think it would be quite easy to do an interview again with them or all of the better companies, let them do the finger pointing. That way the editor of the mag doesn't get into trouble with the law breakers, and anyone who starts a fight with petcharat better have lots of backup.

This really does need to be out in the open.

Lives are at stake!!!!!

[sbk]

Someone should inform the Thai coast guard, as they are in charge of marine inspections. Perhaps an anonymous phone call or letter would suffice. Enclose those photo's as well.

Incorrect, the port authority is in charge of marine inspections at the pier.

Mosquitoman, take your picture into their office and make an official complaint. The port authority office is the small building on the new pier opposite the seatrans/catamaran offices. If you are looking out to the sea, it is on the left.

You might also mention the overcrowded boats to them, they are in charge of inspecting the boats on full moon night.

[LaoPo]

Someone should inform the Thai coast guard, as they are in charge of marine inspections. Perhaps an anonymous phone call or letter would suffice. Enclose those photo's as well.

Incorrect, the port authority is in charge of marine inspections at the pier.

Mosquitoman, take your picture into their office and make an official complaint. The port authority office is the small building on the new pier opposite the seatrans/catamaran offices. If you are looking out to the sea, it is on the left.

You might also mention the overcrowded boats to them, they are in charge of inspecting the boats on full moon night.

SBK, with due respect, you should know better.

A Farang complaining to Thai port-authorities.....and you think that will help ? I don't think so.

'Authorities' who, most likely, know the owners of these ferries, the captains/crew and see/talk to them day in day out and probably close their eyes to the dangerous situations on these same boats.

Maybe in return for some favours....who knows ?

And they would listen to a single Farang coming in with a complaint and a photo ?

Accidents with ferries and speedboats happened before with many dead/drowned and nothing has changed.

The only thing which helps is big publicity in the press.

LaoPo

[mosquitoman]

Mosquitoman, take your picture into their office and make an official complaint. The port authority office is the small building on the new pier opposite the seatrans/catamaran offices. If you are looking out to the sea, it is on the left.

You might also mention the overcrowded boats to them, they are in charge of inspecting the boats on full moon night.

Dear SBK

With greatest respect

As a resident on Koh Pha Ngan, I dont think I will be doing myself any favours if I were to go in the Port Authority office and start making official complaints about the boats on which alot of the local population work and depend on for an income.

MM

[pumpuiman]

Someone should inform the Thai coast guard, as they are in charge of marine inspections. Perhaps an anonymous phone call or letter would suffice. Enclose those photo's as well.

Incorrect, the port authority is in charge of marine inspections at the pier.

Mosquitoman, take your picture into their office and make an official complaint. The port authority office is the small building on the new pier opposite the seatrans/catamaran offices. If you are looking out to the sea, it is on the left.

You might also mention the overcrowded boats to them, they are in charge of inspecting the boats on full moon night.

You will have to excuse my lack of local knowledge here......but can this be correct? What happens to a vessel when it travels to different ports? Do local port authority's then take over inspections? As an employee of one of the largest marine transportation autorities in the U.S , and a licenced captain, I am very familiar with the inspection process here. The authority has to answer to the coast guard here......are you absolutely sure that inspections/ certifications are performed by the local authority ? If this is the case....then there is your problem, no checks and balances.

I recall speaking with the captain of the ferry to Samui about the similarities in determining tonnage with Thai and U.S vessels, he seemed to have to adhere to a set of international standards, as I do. This would seem counter your claim.

I cant seem to find any info on the net.....tbk.....where did you get your info? I am intrigued.

[Beachedwhale]

Someone should inform the Thai coast guard, as they are in charge of marine inspections. Perhaps an anonymous phone call or letter would suffice. Enclose those photo's as well.

Incorrect, the port authority is in charge of marine inspections at the pier.

Mosquitoman, take your picture into their office and make an official complaint. The port authority office is the small building on the new pier opposite the seatrans/catamaran offices. If you are looking out to the sea, it is on the left.

You might also mention the overcrowded boats to them, they are in charge of inspecting the boats on full moon night.

You will have to excuse my lack of local knowledge here......but can this be correct? What happens to a vessel when it travels to different ports? Do local port authority's then take over inspections? As an employee of one of the largest marine transportation autorities in the U.S , and a licenced captain, I am very familiar with the inspection process here. The authority has to answer to the coast guard here......are you absolutely sure that inspections/ certifications are performed by the local authority ? If this is the case....then there is your problem, no checks and balances.

I recall speaking with the captain of the ferry to Samui about the similarities in determining tonnage with Thai and U.S vessels, he seemed to have to adhere to a set of international standards, as I do. This would seem counter your claim.

I cant seem to find any info on the net.....tbk.....where did you get your info? I am intrigued.

I know the Farang owner of a local samui boat charter operation and discussed this with him. He told me that the process of getting the annual paperwork is done through the local samui harbourboard who undertake the survey which must be done before the vessel can be licensed and used for charter. The insurance requirement is that the vessel must have this survey and license for the insurance to be valid.

He told me that the last 2 surveys were done in a local restaurant over a few coffees and lunch etc. Now he was not sure whether this is the usual process or whether it was because it is well known that his vessels are up to standard, have all of the required safety equipment etc and therefore no need to do much checking.

He also stated that now and again the local samui marine police do come aboard just to check that the paperwork is in order, but they certainly do not check any of the equipment.

After the speed boat accident where a large number of people died, all boat operators were called to a meeting with the main message being that the skippers should not be drunk when driving and should not be speeding at night and should not overload ... and that there should be enough orange coloured lifejackets on board for the passengers. My friend said this last one could have been a nuisance to him as all of his lifejackets were a mixture of flourescent colours depending on the size of the jacket, but he has not ever had any or the survey team or marine police ake him to task over it.

[pumpuiman]

Incredible! I guess the answer would be the local media....try to stir the pot. The current system is a recipe for disaster.

[LaoPo]

Incredible! I guess the answer would be the local media....try to stir the pot.

The current system is a recipe for disaster.

Yes... it's just a matter of time. Nobody can deny it happened before, also in Thailand, although I couldn't find it on the next list.

Maybe there weren't enough deaths to make it to this list....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disas...ferry_disasters

LaoPo

[limbos]

One of the wooden ferries went down about 9 or 10 years ago, it may have been a night ferry between ST and Samui. It was during a storm AFAIK and people died.

Local divers were asked to help out, bringing the perished passengers who were stuck in the ferry back to the surface.

[sbk]

About 25 years ago the night boat to Koh Phangan sank, quite a few people died. Then about 14 years ago the Songserm express boat sank between Surat and Koh Samui, supposedly only two people died. Then the night boat to Koh Tao sank a few years ago, again a few people died. Then the speed boat between Samui and Phangan sank and quite a few people died.

I have never heard of a car ferry sinking in all the years I have lived here.

As for the Port Authority, well a friend of mine used to work for them which is how I know they are responsible for inspecting the boats that run out of Phangan, mainly they have been inspecting the speed boats since the accident.

And I do believe that nobody would actually get fired if you complained to the Port Authority, the responsibility of maintaining safety lies with the main office, certainly not with anyone on Koh Phangan. Most likely the Raja Ferry gets inspected on the mainland, not here.

[taxexile]

I have never heard of a car ferry sinking in all the years I have lived here.

and lets hope it stays that way.

those car ferries are called ro-ro boats , roll on - roll off , after the method of loading and unloading them.

huge doors at either end of the boat enable quick loading and unloading.

those doors and the lack of bulkheads in the parking area means that should a large amount of water enter , either due to encountering a storm , or due to faulty closure of the doors , then the cargo area could become awash with a foot or so of water , this water sloshing around could easily capsize the boat.

disasters with these types of ferries in europe ( the estonia , the spirit of free enterprise disasters) have claimed many lives and resulted in tightening of safety regulations for ro-ro boats.

they were cynically renamed ro-ro-ro boats ( roll on , roll off , roll over)

the samui ferries seem to be second hand boats , about 20 years old from japan or taiwan.

i have been on them in rough weather and never spotted more than a trickle of water coming through the doors when hitting a heavy swell.

does anybody know if these boats are operated and inspected professionally and within international regulations ?

or is it just a coffee and a beer with the inspectors.

[mosquitoman]

does anybody know if these boats are operated and inspected professionally and within international regulations ?

I think not

Here is what the british embassy says on the subject:

Sea Safety

There have been a number of passenger boat sinkings, apparently due to overloading. In January 2005, four British nationals were among 18 people who died near Koh Samui when a speedboat bringing passengers back from the full moon party on Koh Pha Ngan sank. During the full moon party speedboats to and from Koh Pha Ngan are often severely overloaded. You should exercise care at all times when travelling by passenger ferry or speedboat and avoid travel on vessels that are clearly overloaded or in poor condition. You should also ensure that life jackets are available.

Raja Ferries passenger ferries are clearly in a poor condition

MM