National Park Fees

[jumnien]

times do change..

and it seems like more and more Parks have adopted the 400 baht fee as well as not accepting anything other than a Thai National ID card for entrance at the 1/10th rate.

If you wish to discuss the racism charge, it necessitates you reading why people have made it, particularly since its a valid one.

Again, the national park entrance fee is based on citizenship, not on race. Thai citizens are a vast diversity of races. Likewise, people of Thai heritage, who are not Thai citizens are charged the higher price. I'm not sure where you see the policy as having a racial component.

As for the various comments on racism in Thai culture, they are interesting, but have no connection with the topic of National Park entrance fees.

[toptuan]

Again, the national park entrance fee is based on citizenship, not on race. Thai citizens are a vast diversity of races. Likewise, people of Thai heritage, who are not Thai citizens are charged the higher price. I'm not sure where you see the policy as having a racial component.

As for the various comments on racism in Thai culture, they are interesting, but have no connection with the topic of National Park entrance fees.

It's apparent you haven't read all the posts. If you look Asian, you get in for the lower rate. If you're white-skinned, leuk-krueng (half Thai/half westerner) you pay through the nose. No one has ever asked for my citizenship at the gate, nor have they asked the Japanese and Koreans who were with me (and they looked VERY un-Thai!).

Wake up, racism is alive and well in SE Asia (as every where else).

Edited November 21, 2006 by toptuan

[jumnien]

Again, the national park entrance fee is based on citizenship, not on race. Thai citizens are a vast diversity of races. Likewise, people of Thai heritage, who are not Thai citizens are charged the higher price. I'm not sure where you see the policy as having a racial component.

As for the various comments on racism in Thai culture, they are interesting, but have no connection with the topic of National Park entrance fees.

It's apparent you haven't read all the posts. If you look Asian, you get in for the lower rate. If you're white-skinned, leuk-krueng (half Thai/half westerner) you pay through the nose. No one has ever asked for my citizenship at the gate, nor have they asked the Japanese and Koreans who were with me (and they looked VERY un-Thai!).

Wake up, racism is alive and well in SE Asia (as every where else).

I did read all the posts and I just have a different experience and perspective than you. Personally, I have never noticed this deep racial bond that compels the Thais to treat the Koreans and Cambodians as their own brothers while denigrating the "white foreign devil".

I side with those who see this policy as a Thai vs non-Thai issue; very similar to how Thai university students are charged tens of thousands of dollars more for their tuition in California over what California residents pay. It might be unfair, it might be a bad idea, but it is hard to justify calling it racist.

[dog412]

Again, the national park entrance fee is based on citizenship, not on race. Thai citizens are a vast diversity of races. Likewise, people of Thai heritage, who are not Thai citizens are charged the higher price. I'm not sure where you see the policy as having a racial component.

As for the various comments on racism in Thai culture, they are interesting, but have no connection with the topic of National Park entrance fees.

It's apparent you haven't read all the posts. If you look Asian, you get in for the lower rate. If you're white-skinned, leuk-krueng (half Thai/half westerner) you pay through the nose. No one has ever asked for my citizenship at the gate, nor have they asked the Japanese and Koreans who were with me (and they looked VERY un-Thai!).

Wake up, racism is alive and well in SE Asia (as every where else).

I did read all the posts and I just have a different experience and perspective than you. Personally, I have never noticed this deep racial bond that compels the Thais to treat the Koreans and Cambodians as their own brothers while denigrating the "white foreign devil".

I side with those who see this policy as a Thai vs non-Thai issue; very similar to how Thai university students are charged tens of thousands of dollars more for their tuition in California over what California residents pay. It might be unfair, it might be a bad idea, but it is hard to justify calling it racist.

yes, california residents. all other U.S. citizens also pay a higher rate. now, the question is, is the rate higher for non U.S. citizens than the out of staters?

[jumnien]

Again, the national park entrance fee is based on citizenship, not on race. Thai citizens are a vast diversity of races. Likewise, people of Thai heritage, who are not Thai citizens are charged the higher price. I'm not sure where you see the policy as having a racial component.

As for the various comments on racism in Thai culture, they are interesting, but have no connection with the topic of National Park entrance fees.

It's apparent you haven't read all the posts. If you look Asian, you get in for the lower rate. If you're white-skinned, leuk-krueng (half Thai/half westerner) you pay through the nose. No one has ever asked for my citizenship at the gate, nor have they asked the Japanese and Koreans who were with me (and they looked VERY un-Thai!).

Wake up, racism is alive and well in SE Asia (as every where else).

I did read all the posts and I just have a different experience and perspective than you. Personally, I have never noticed this deep racial bond that compels the Thais to treat the Koreans and Cambodians as their own brothers while denigrating the "white foreign devil".

I side with those who see this policy as a Thai vs non-Thai issue; very similar to how Thai university students are charged tens of thousands of dollars more for their tuition in California over what California residents pay. It might be unfair, it might be a bad idea, but it is hard to justify calling it racist.

yes, california residents. all other U.S. citizens also pay a higher rate. now, the question is, is the rate higher for non U.S. citizens than the out of staters?

Yes, of course. Out of State US residents pay far less than foreign citizens. But, as is the case with the entrance fee policy at Thai national parks, race is of no concern.

[dog412]

i will have to look into the state university tuition policies. that being said, as long as identification is required by all those entering the national parks here, that would identify each entrant and "racism" would not be applicable. however, price gouging might be a applicable term.

[dog412]

mdeland, having taken a look at the U.C.california tuition requirements, i can see no difference in fees of a non resident of Ca. and international applicants. if you have other facts to the contrary it would be most helpful. cheers.

[jumnien]

mdeland, having taken a look at the U.C.california tuition requirements, i can see no difference in fees of a non resident of Ca. and international applicants. if you have other facts to the contrary it would be most helpful. cheers.

I attended University of California Santa Cruz in 1977-1982 (the reefer slowed me down) and my Japanese girlfriend at the time paid exhorbitantly more than fellow dorm mates from other states. I would expect that the pricing policies may have changed in 25 years. Regardless, The UC system, similar to the Thai National Park entrances, had no DNA testing for race; in fact, the tuition, like the entrance fee, could be completely determined by one's legal residency and citizenship. Of course, some races faired better with admissions and scholarships based solely on racial backround, and that was considered legal at the time, and perhaps still is.

We don't want to drift too far from the original topic which is that many of us feel resentment at times when we pay more than Thais for entering the Natonal Parks. We don't need to justify our resentment by absurdly labelling the policy 'racist'. When you pay more than someone else for a product, privelege, or service it is very human to resist. But don't let it ruin your whole day.

Several posters have implied that the Thais have a strong racial affinity with other Asians. I suppose that the Thai-Korean and Thai-Cambodian children are given much more respect here in Thailand than the Thai-farang (luk krung) kids because of this. But honestly, I haveln't seen this. I'll try to open my eyes and see this phenomenon in action.

Busloads of Japanese tourists paying 20 baht just because of the racial commonality? Honestly, haven't seen it!

[Neeranam]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

People remember me which used to be a bad thing when I was a 'naughty boy' Now it is an advantage. Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty superior being!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

Any of us can become Thais if we want.

N N

[toptuan]

Great post, Neeranam. Despite my bitching, it is for the reasons that you mentioned, that I stay. The trade-offs are worth it.

[jumnien]

Thanks Neeranaam, wish I could put it so elegantly!