So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Khun Han]

I read it ysterday, and found it utterly slanted and largely bereft of supporting evidence for it's myriad of contentious suppositions and assumptions. But it plays quite wittily to the Remainer crowd.

Supporting evidence and Brexit(eer) don't go well together,

To Add:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/brexit-vote-wreaks-havoc-on-u-k-economy-flash-estimates-show

As opposed, I suppose, to the apocalyptic scaremongering predictions that didn't happen and are not going to happen any time soon. Sterling was quickly going to go below parity with the Euro, then the US Dollar, the banks were going to pull out of London, the economy was going to tank, France was going to send all it's refugees to Dover, and,and,and.....none of it happening.

It is a hallmark of so many Brexiteers' stupidity that they failed to actually listen to any of the arguments put forward just as we see the deliberate misinterpretation by the above post. I suppose they also believed their own rhetoric and are now expecting 350 million per week boost to the NHS?

It would have been helpful if you had actually replied to the very straightforward point I made, instead of using my post as a nominal reference point to post personal insults. Deliberate misinterpretation indeed .

Edited July 22, 2016 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

I read it ysterday, and found it utterly slanted and largely bereft of supporting evidence for it's myriad of contentious suppositions and assumptions. But it plays quite wittily to the Remainer crowd.

Supporting evidence and Brexit(eer) don't go well together,

To Add:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/brexit-vote-wreaks-havoc-on-u-k-economy-flash-estimates-show

As opposed, I suppose, to the apocalyptic scaremongering predictions that didn't happen and are not going to happen any time soon. Sterling was quickly going to go below parity with the Euro, then the US Dollar, the banks were going to pull out of London, the economy was going to tank, France was going to send all it's refugees to Dover, and,and,and.....none of it happening.

The day is young and this whole business is only just now getting started, keep your eye on Sterling, the banks and the economy over the next six months.

At least you replied to my point, unlike a couple of bad-mannered clowns (a common hallmark of Remainers). My own view is that six years is a better timescale in which to make a judgement.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

An interesting article on the subject of leaving (or perhaps not):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-its-time-to-accept-the-fact-that-brexit-may-never-actually-happen-a7148816.html

The article argues that it's almost impossible that we will leave and lists valid 10 reasons why, underlying them are the following:

• The EU will not give the UK a deal in which Britain gets access to the single market but opts out of the "freedom of movement" requirement that lets EU migrants into the country. In fact, the EU cannot give this deal to the UK because it would represent an existential threat to the EU itself: If one country gets access to the single market while controlling its own immigration borders, then every country in the EU will want to do the same.
• Leaving the EU will cause such massive damage to the UK economy that it might be political suicide for any government to actually leave despite the fact that a majority of people voted Leave in the EU Referendum.

This quote from the same article is not quite true.

"On those assumptions, May's government is heavily incentivised to drag its feet over the Leave negotiations. It would be much easier for the Tories to be seen to be negotiating an exit, while not actually exiting, than actually leaving Europe. Especially when 2020 comes around."

Extending the negotiating period over 2 years would require an agreement from the EU, that is highly unlikely so all credibility will hinge on Article 50.

"The form of any withdrawal agreement would depend on the negotiations and there is therefore no guarantee the UK would find the terms acceptable. The EU Treaties would cease to apply to the UK on the entry into force of a withdrawal agreement or, if no new agreement is concluded, after two years, unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiating period.

During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal. On the EU side, the agreement would be negotiated by the European Commission following a mandate from EU ministers and concluded by EU governments acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. This means that the European Parliament would be an additional unpredictable factor in striking a deal."

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

there is of course one major problem here whatever the scenario - the UK doesn't actually have any negotiators.

There is also the perverse logic of our negotiating situation. Cameron went to EU and basically said if they didn't give UK certain things, they'd leave. He didn't get and they've left.........

Now they've got to turn round and say..Ok, so how about those things again?

Excuse me, what has the UK got to negotiate with? They've already done that....

Once brexit is triggered, we will have a huge amount with which to negotiate. Just the trade balance alone dictates that it's far more in the EU's (and Germany's in particular, who call all the EU shots anyway) interest to negotiate with us than it is ours to negotiate with them.

[chiang mai]

Supporting evidence and Brexit(eer) don't go well together,

To Add:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/brexit-vote-wreaks-havoc-on-u-k-economy-flash-estimates-show

As opposed, I suppose, to the apocalyptic scaremongering predictions that didn't happen and are not going to happen any time soon. Sterling was quickly going to go below parity with the Euro, then the US Dollar, the banks were going to pull out of London, the economy was going to tank, France was going to send all it's refugees to Dover, and,and,and.....none of it happening.

The day is young and this whole business is only just now getting started, keep your eye on Sterling, the banks and the economy over the next six months.

At least you replied to my point, unlike a couple of bad-mannered clowns (a common hallmark of Remainers). My own view is that six years is a better timescale in which to make a judgement.

There is very little doubt that in ten years time, UK Plc will have returned close to "normal", the question then will be, on reflection, was all the pain worth it considering what we have/have not gained, even if we say six years, that's a very long time, death by a thousand cuts comes to mind. Look for the pollsters at some future point to survey satisfaction of the populous, did you get what you wanted, was it what you expected, are you satisfied with the outcome, being key questions, the answers will surprise many who voted for Brexit, I think.

[Orac]

An interesting article on the subject of leaving (or perhaps not):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-its-time-to-accept-the-fact-that-brexit-may-never-actually-happen-a7148816.html

The article argues that it's almost impossible that we will leave and lists valid 10 reasons why, underlying them are the following:

• The EU will not give the UK a deal in which Britain gets access to the single market but opts out of the "freedom of movement" requirement that lets EU migrants into the country. In fact, the EU cannot give this deal to the UK because it would represent an existential threat to the EU itself: If one country gets access to the single market while controlling its own immigration borders, then every country in the EU will want to do the same.
• Leaving the EU will cause such massive damage to the UK economy that it might be political suicide for any government to actually leave despite the fact that a majority of people voted Leave in the EU Referendum.

This quote from the same article is not quite true.

"On those assumptions, May's government is heavily incentivised to drag its feet over the Leave negotiations. It would be much easier for the Tories to be seen to be negotiating an exit, while not actually exiting, than actually leaving Europe. Especially when 2020 comes around."

Extending the negotiating period over 2 years would require an agreement from the EU, that is highly unlikely so all credibility will hinge on Article 50.

"The form of any withdrawal agreement would depend on the negotiations and there is therefore no guarantee the UK would find the terms acceptable. The EU Treaties would cease to apply to the UK on the entry into force of a withdrawal agreement or, if no new agreement is concluded, after two years, unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiating period.

During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal. On the EU side, the agreement would be negotiated by the European Commission following a mandate from EU ministers and concluded by EU governments acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. This means that the European Parliament would be an additional unpredictable factor in striking a deal."

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

there is of course one major problem here whatever the scenario - the UK doesn't actually have any negotiators.

There is also the perverse logic of our negotiating situation. Cameron went to EU and basically said if they didn't give UK certain things, they'd leave. He didn't get and they've left.........

Now they've got to turn round and say..Ok, so how about those things again?

Excuse me, what has the UK got to negotiate with? They've already done that....

Once brexit is triggered, we will have a huge amount with which to negotiate. Just the trade balance alone dictates that it's far more in the EU's (and Germany's in particular, who call all the EU shots anyway) interest to negotiate with us than it is ours to negotiate with them.

Though important, the trade is somewhere over 40% of UK exports against around 6% from the EU to UK so any barriers that are erected will do far more harm to the UK than Europe. The one that always gets mentioned is cars but most of the big manufacturers are based here partly so they can sell into the EU and will need to reevaluate their investment strategy should we not have full access to the free market. The german carmakers will suffer but will get by since most of their products are high ticket value and less sensitive to price increases.

[GuestHouse]

An interesting article on the subject of leaving (or perhaps not):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-its-time-to-accept-the-fact-that-brexit-may-never-actually-happen-a7148816.html

The article argues that it's almost impossible that we will leave and lists valid 10 reasons why, underlying them are the following:

• The EU will not give the UK a deal in which Britain gets access to the single market but opts out of the "freedom of movement" requirement that lets EU migrants into the country. In fact, the EU cannot give this deal to the UK because it would represent an existential threat to the EU itself: If one country gets access to the single market while controlling its own immigration borders, then every country in the EU will want to do the same.
• Leaving the EU will cause such massive damage to the UK economy that it might be political suicide for any government to actually leave despite the fact that a majority of people voted Leave in the EU Referendum.

This quote from the same article is not quite true.

"On those assumptions, May's government is heavily incentivised to drag its feet over the Leave negotiations. It would be much easier for the Tories to be seen to be negotiating an exit, while not actually exiting, than actually leaving Europe. Especially when 2020 comes around."

Extending the negotiating period over 2 years would require an agreement from the EU, that is highly unlikely so all credibility will hinge on Article 50.

"The form of any withdrawal agreement would depend on the negotiations and there is therefore no guarantee the UK would find the terms acceptable. The EU Treaties would cease to apply to the UK on the entry into force of a withdrawal agreement or, if no new agreement is concluded, after two years, unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiating period.

During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal. On the EU side, the agreement would be negotiated by the European Commission following a mandate from EU ministers and concluded by EU governments acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. This means that the European Parliament would be an additional unpredictable factor in striking a deal."

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

there is of course one major problem here whatever the scenario - the UK doesn't actually have any negotiators.

There is also the perverse logic of our negotiating situation. Cameron went to EU and basically said if they didn't give UK certain things, they'd leave. He didn't get and they've left.........

Now they've got to turn round and say..Ok, so how about those things again?

Excuse me, what has the UK got to negotiate with? They've already done that....

Once brexit is triggered, we will have a huge amount with which to negotiate. Just the trade balance alone dictates that it's far more in the EU's (and Germany's in particular, who call all the EU shots anyway) interest to negotiate with us than it is ours to negotiate with them.

A significant part of the trade the UK does with the rest of the EU is not actually trade - its portioned transactions designed to dodge taxes.

By example: Buy coffee from Amazon, hand over your two pounds, be receive your coffee in the UK, but buy intellectual property rights for the use of the Starbucks logo from an entity in the Netherlands, the licence to use the Starbucks cup design from Ireland. the license to use the term 'Tall Americano' from Luxembourg.

The same goes for transactions with almost any high street multinational, for online stores like Avis, airlines, car hire companies &c.,

This 'Trade with the EU' is costing the UK billions, and because it goes on elsewhere in the EU costing EU nations Billions.

The EU are currently working on reframing EU wide tax laws to remove the loopholes that corporations use to do business in the EU without paying tax - That is do business in the UK without paying tax in the UK - To end the parasitic behaviour of the international corporations.

Not much discussion of this point by Brexit - perhaps because the people funding Brexit are the tax dodgers.

The very 'Elite' Brexit said it was fighting against.

[sandyf]

An interesting article on the subject of leaving (or perhaps not):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-its-time-to-accept-the-fact-that-brexit-may-never-actually-happen-a7148816.html

The article argues that it's almost impossible that we will leave and lists valid 10 reasons why, underlying them are the following:

• The EU will not give the UK a deal in which Britain gets access to the single market but opts out of the "freedom of movement" requirement that lets EU migrants into the country. In fact, the EU cannot give this deal to the UK because it would represent an existential threat to the EU itself: If one country gets access to the single market while controlling its own immigration borders, then every country in the EU will want to do the same.
• Leaving the EU will cause such massive damage to the UK economy that it might be political suicide for any government to actually leave despite the fact that a majority of people voted Leave in the EU Referendum.

This quote from the same article is not quite true.

"On those assumptions, May's government is heavily incentivised to drag its feet over the Leave negotiations. It would be much easier for the Tories to be seen to be negotiating an exit, while not actually exiting, than actually leaving Europe. Especially when 2020 comes around."

Extending the negotiating period over 2 years would require an agreement from the EU, that is highly unlikely so all credibility will hinge on Article 50.

"The form of any withdrawal agreement would depend on the negotiations and there is therefore no guarantee the UK would find the terms acceptable. The EU Treaties would cease to apply to the UK on the entry into force of a withdrawal agreement or, if no new agreement is concluded, after two years, unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiating period.

During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal. On the EU side, the agreement would be negotiated by the European Commission following a mandate from EU ministers and concluded by EU governments acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. This means that the European Parliament would be an additional unpredictable factor in striking a deal."

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

there is of course one major problem here whatever the scenario - the UK doesn't actually have any negotiators.

There is also the perverse logic of our negotiating situation. Cameron went to EU and basically said if they didn't give UK certain things, they'd leave. He didn't get and they've left.........

Now they've got to turn round and say..Ok, so how about those things again?

Excuse me, what has the UK got to negotiate with? They've already done that....

Once brexit is triggered, we will have a huge amount with which to negotiate. Just the trade balance alone dictates that it's far more in the EU's (and Germany's in particular, who call all the EU shots anyway) interest to negotiate with us than it is ours to negotiate with them.

One cannot fault your logic but in reality does it really mean a great deal.

At the end of the day the exit negotiations must be approved by the European Parliament so will the MEPs vote in line with the EU recommendations, or take instructions from their own government.

There is no precedent on this one and the EU certainly has the upper hand.

[Khun Han]

^ It's a good point. But what's the European parliament going to do? Refuse to allow the UK to exit? The UK would just exit anyway, and there would be a huge mess. But I strongly suspect that, when that time comes, the EU will be in a big mess anyway from a whole raft of it's own issues, and will not be looking to create more problems.

[chiang mai]

A friend believes that the UK should cater to both groups, Remainers should occupy the southern part of England whilst Brexiteers should be moved as far from the cinque ports as possible and occupy all the land North of say Sheffield. A wall could be built across the country, from Blackpool to Hull and this would mirror Hadrians Wall further North. Now admittedly the Remainers would loose the Lake District but it seems like a fairly responsible proposition to me.

[Khun Han]

Based on the map of voting patterns, wouldn't a wall around Greater London be more appropriate?

Edited July 23, 2016 by Khun Han

[Jip99]

A friend believes that the UK should cater to both groups, Remainers should occupy the southern part of England whilst Brexiteers should be moved as far from the cinque ports as possible and occupy all the land North of say Sheffield. A wall could be built across the country, from Blackpool to Hull and this would mirror Hadrians Wall further North. Now admittedly the Remainers would loose the Lake District but it seems like a fairly responsible proposition to me.

Smart thinking

Straight out of the Nicola Sturgeon book of sensible proposals.

[brexiteer]

Brexit Vote Update (from Better off Out)

One month on from the historic vote to leave the inward looking, protectionist and backward European Union, the British people are already reaping the rewards.

Since the vote, we've seen UK unemployment decrease, wages rise, mortgage lending increase, retail sales surge and UK borrowing slow. On the markets, the FTSE 100 is up and the FTSE 250 is still near its pre-Brexit record high. Interest rates have been held at 0.5% and the Bank of England has said that Brexit has not caused a sharp slowdown in the British economy. Indeed, the IMF has even admitted that the UK's economy is due to outgrow both France and Germany's and the new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has confessed that there is no need for an emergency budget. Despite the recent PMI numbers, the evidence is overwhelmingly positive - including factory export growth at a two year high.

The UK has already been preparing itself for the opportunities that we will have post-Brexit. The new Prime Minister, Theresa May, has appointed a new Cabinet and created new departments including one dedicated to achieving Brexit and another to frame international trade deals. These departments, alongside the FCO and Number 10, will be influential in defining the course of the UK in the years to come.

All this confounds the doom / fear mongering and fear-mongers that were talking Britain down throughout the EU referendum campaign with claims the British people - knowing that they were being taken for fools - saw straight through.

The UK now has a golden opportunity to embrace a new outward looking, global future - and the new departments headed up by Liam Fox and David Davis will play an integral role in that. In another post Brexit vote positive, the UK aims to secure free trade deals with 12 countries, including the US and Australia, with deals worth billions to the UK economy. We wish them well in this and are delighted that a long-standing Better Off Out supporter, Stewart Jackson, has been appointed to work with David Davis on Brexit.

The Better Off Out campaign has long sought to explain why the UK would be better off outside the EU but now, with the concerns over what arrangements the UK will have with the world, the campaign will concentrate on explaining how we can be better off when we leave. Over the coming weeks and months ahead, the campaign will be holding the Government's feet to the fire over Brexit to help ensure that the UK gets the best possible outcome. Work has already begun and we will let you know more in due course. In the meantime, we should just take a moment to remember what a magnificent thing the people of the UK did last month - and how all those fear-mongers have melted away.

[brexiteer]

Based on the map of voting patterns, wouldn't a wall around Greater London be more appropriate?

I think you make a very good point.

But since when has Chiang Mai and his fellow Remoaners dealt in fact and reality ?

[chiang mai]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

Edited July 23, 2016 by chiang mai

[brexiteer]

As well as the Lake District it looks like you have lost most of the Chilterns .................. but we are stuck with the Lincolnshire Wolds and Barnsley

[chiang mai]

As well as the Lake District it looks like you have lost most of the Chilterns .................. but we are stuck with the Lincolnshire Wolds and Barnsley

You missed the word, "moved" when reading that post, "Brexiteers should be moved", typical I suppose.

[Khun Han]

Brexit Vote Update (from Better off Out)

One month on from the historic vote to leave the inward looking, protectionist and backward European Union, the British people are already reaping the rewards.

Since the vote, we've seen UK unemployment decrease, wages rise, mortgage lending increase, retail sales surge and UK borrowing slow. On the markets, the FTSE 100 is up and the FTSE 250 is still near its pre-Brexit record high. Interest rates have been held at 0.5% and the Bank of England has said that Brexit has not caused a sharp slowdown in the British economy. Indeed, the IMF has even admitted that the UK's economy is due to outgrow both France and Germany's and the new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has confessed that there is no need for an emergency budget. Despite the recent PMI numbers, the evidence is overwhelmingly positive - including factory export growth at a two year high.

The UK has already been preparing itself for the opportunities that we will have post-Brexit. The new Prime Minister, Theresa May, has appointed a new Cabinet and created new departments including one dedicated to achieving Brexit and another to frame international trade deals. These departments, alongside the FCO and Number 10, will be influential in defining the course of the UK in the years to come.

All this confounds the doom / fear mongering and fear-mongers that were talking Britain down throughout the EU referendum campaign with claims the British people - knowing that they were being taken for fools - saw straight through.

The UK now has a golden opportunity to embrace a new outward looking, global future - and the new departments headed up by Liam Fox and David Davis will play an integral role in that. In another post Brexit vote positive, the UK aims to secure free trade deals with 12 countries, including the US and Australia, with deals worth billions to the UK economy. We wish them well in this and are delighted that a long-standing Better Off Out supporter, Stewart Jackson, has been appointed to work with David Davis on Brexit.

The Better Off Out campaign has long sought to explain why the UK would be better off outside the EU but now, with the concerns over what arrangements the UK will have with the world, the campaign will concentrate on explaining how we can be better off when we leave. Over the coming weeks and months ahead, the campaign will be holding the Government's feet to the fire over Brexit to help ensure that the UK gets the best possible outcome. Work has already begun and we will let you know more in due course. In the meantime, we should just take a moment to remember what a magnificent thing the people of the UK did last month - and how all those fear-mongers have melted away.

Most of the high profile fear-mongers have faded away, but their acolytes seem unable to work out how to 'change the record'.

[Khun Han]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

Six months/the new year is the most ridiculous time imaginable to assess the situation. Article 50 will have just been/about to be triggered, and many things will be in temporary limbo. A sensible short-term assessment can be done once the UK has left the EU and has been functioning under it's new arrangements long enough for them to have an effect.

[chiang mai]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

Six months/the new year is the most ridiculous time imaginable to assess the situation. Article 50 will have just been/about to be triggered, and many things will be in temporary limbo. A sensible short-term assessment can be done once the UK has left the EU and has been functioning under it's new arrangements long enough for them to have an effect.

Oh I see, so next review in six or ten years then!

[Jip99]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

I think that a 6 month breathing space in which to cease hostilities is a bl00dy good idea. I am not sure that some of your fellow Remainers on Thai Visa have the ability to follow your example but, here's hoping.

In 6 months time one of us can be smug and the will have to learn to accept defeat - by then you have got used to the latter...

[happy Joe]

Once brexit is triggered, we will have a huge amount with which to negotiate. Just the trade balance alone dictates that it's far more in the EU's (and Germany's in particular, who call all the EU shots anyway) interest to negotiate with us than it is ours to negotiate with them.

Yes.

With the departure of Britain the EU should lose between 0.1 and 0.2 points of growth.

Catastrophe !

So all countries of Union are going to drag the feet of his Majesty Columbia in the vain hope that it deigns to grant them a little of its prestigious expertise.

[chiang mai]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

I think that a 6 month breathing space in which to cease hostilities is a bl00dy good idea. I am not sure that some of your fellow Remainers on Thai Visa have the ability to follow your example but, here's hoping.

In 6 months time one of us can be smug and the will have to learn to accept defeat - by then you have got used to the latter...

I'm perfectly OK with six months but others are less so, and if in six months the economy is looking decent I'll know I can rely on the Thai Visa clan to rub my nose in that fact, repeatedly. But if god forbid it is not, I will simply remind you, politely, that much of the alleged scaremongering was in fact, fact, so best start making up your excuses now.

[Khun Han]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

Six months/the new year is the most ridiculous time imaginable to assess the situation. Article 50 will have just been/about to be triggered, and many things will be in temporary limbo. A sensible short-term assessment can be done once the UK has left the EU and has been functioning under it's new arrangements long enough for them to have an effect.

Oh I see, so next review in six or ten years then!

That all depends on whether you are interested in looking at the short-term turmoil during a UK - EU divorce, or the actual results of that divorce .

[Jip99]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

I think that a 6 month breathing space in which to cease hostilities is a bl00dy good idea. I am not sure that some of your fellow Remainers on Thai Visa have the ability to follow your example but, here's hoping.

In 6 months time one of us can be smug and the will have to learn to accept defeat - by then you have got used to the latter...

I'm perfectly OK with six months but others are less so, and if in six months the economy is looking decent I'll know I can rely on the Thai Visa clan to rub my nose in that fact, repeatedly. But if god forbid it is not, I will simply remind you, politely, that much of the alleged scaremongering was in fact, fact, so best start making up your excuses now.

Presumably the cease-fire starts at Midnight ?

It just gives me time to remind you that I have a copy of your prediction that Sterling would slump by 20%.

Obviously if the GBP/THB rate is anything over 40, the reminder will be on me!

[chiang mai]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

Six months/the new year is the most ridiculous time imaginable to assess the situation. Article 50 will have just been/about to be triggered, and many things will be in temporary limbo. A sensible short-term assessment can be done once the UK has left the EU and has been functioning under it's new arrangements long enough for them to have an effect.

Oh I see, so next review in six or ten years then!

That all depends on whether you are interested in looking at the short-term turmoil during a UK - EU divorce, or the actual results of that divorce .

Let's be clear KH: pre referendum, several things were pointed out regarding the economy and the associated pain and those things were all labelled scaremongering. Today, I think those chickens are coming home to roost and if in six months they're laying eggs, I'll be rubbing you and yours noses in that fact, if not I'll be eating humble pie. But in no way shape or form are you going to even successfully hint that we should wait six or ten years before assessing where we are, even a stopped clock is correct twice a day and we all know that in ten years, things will have normalised. The point of highlighting risks pre referendum was to say, there will be much much pain if we Brexit, not that we'll never heal from that pain. so six months it is and then after that perhaps another six months.

[chiang mai]

You guys crack me up, reality indeed, there's a new word in the Brexit dictionary!

But look, let's not fight and simply exchange barbs, let's wait and see what the landscape looks like in six months and then we can all comment sensible - you'll be able to say, god but this is a mess and we'll be able to say, we told you so.

See you around the new year sometime.

I think that a 6 month breathing space in which to cease hostilities is a bl00dy good idea. I am not sure that some of your fellow Remainers on Thai Visa have the ability to follow your example but, here's hoping.

In 6 months time one of us can be smug and the will have to learn to accept defeat - by then you have got used to the latter...

I'm perfectly OK with six months but others are less so, and if in six months the economy is looking decent I'll know I can rely on the Thai Visa clan to rub my nose in that fact, repeatedly. But if god forbid it is not, I will simply remind you, politely, that much of the alleged scaremongering was in fact, fact, so best start making up your excuses now.

Presumably the cease-fire starts at Midnight ?

It just gives me time to remind you that I have a copy of your prediction that Sterling would slump by 20%.

Obviously if the GBP/THB rate is anything over 40, the reminder will be on me!

You will need to post a link to that "prediction" because I don't believe any such thing exists plus we are now all well aware of your propensity to tell, ahem, porkies!

[Jip99]

I think that a 6 month breathing space in which to cease hostilities is a bl00dy good idea. I am not sure that some of your fellow Remainers on Thai Visa have the ability to follow your example but, here's hoping.

In 6 months time one of us can be smug and the will have to learn to accept defeat - by then you have got used to the latter...

I'm perfectly OK with six months but others are less so, and if in six months the economy is looking decent I'll know I can rely on the Thai Visa clan to rub my nose in that fact, repeatedly. But if god forbid it is not, I will simply remind you, politely, that much of the alleged scaremongering was in fact, fact, so best start making up your excuses now.

Presumably the cease-fire starts at Midnight ?

It just gives me time to remind you that I have a copy of your prediction that Sterling would slump by 20%.

Obviously if the GBP/THB rate is anything over 40, the reminder will be on me!

You will need to post a link to that "prediction" because I don't believe any such thing exists plus we are now all well aware of your propensity to tell, ahem, porkies!

................. and yet you cite no evidence for that accusation ?

A common characteristic for a Remoaner.

[ljd1308]

Having followed this thread quite a bit and contributed a couple of times, I find it interesting that every(i may have missed one or 2 posts,sorry if so) person who supports exiting still cannot give a definitive, qualified reason as to what has or will improve....

The best people seem to come up with is that it will not be disastrous....Is not being a disaster a good thing?

Is the FTSE 250 being "close" to what it was a good thing?

It doesn't matter if the market does or does not crash, it won't improve and I don't think anyone anywhere has claimed that. In fact a strong proponent of leaving has just made a bet on here that the pound won't drop 20%....so if it drops 10%9as it has) is that a win?

People have voted blindly without any real idea what will happen and just using best guess work, atleast the people who wanted to remain knew what they were getting.

When I was a kid, my parents always taught me to check the depth of a pool I was diving into prior to diving, I guess people who voted Brexit have a much greater chance of a broken neck.

If I was to vote to leave it would be because it would improve most things about Britain....but it seems people who did vote to leave would be happy if every metric used to judge remained the same. Could someone tell me something they can back up that will definitely improve?

[Khun Han]

Six months/the new year is the most ridiculous time imaginable to assess the situation. Article 50 will have just been/about to be triggered, and many things will be in temporary limbo. A sensible short-term assessment can be done once the UK has left the EU and has been functioning under it's new arrangements long enough for them to have an effect.

Oh I see, so next review in six or ten years then!

That all depends on whether you are interested in looking at the short-term turmoil during a UK - EU divorce, or the actual results of that divorce .

Let's be clear KH: pre referendum, several things were pointed out regarding the economy and the associated pain and those things were all labelled scaremongering. Today, I think those chickens are coming home to roost and if in six months they're laying eggs, I'll be rubbing you and yours noses in that fact, if not I'll be eating humble pie. But in no way shape or form are you going to even successfully hint that we should wait six or ten years before assessing where we are, even a stopped clock is correct twice a day and we all know that in ten years, things will have normalised. The point of highlighting risks pre referendum was to say, there will be much much pain if we Brexit, not that we'll never heal from that pain. so six months it is and then after that perhaps another six months.

Who gave you the authority to set the agenda for judgement dates? And the anti-brexit scaremongering was 'Permanent damage with no recovery. Think of your children and the future'.

[chiang mai]

I'm perfectly OK with six months but others are less so, and if in six months the economy is looking decent I'll know I can rely on the Thai Visa clan to rub my nose in that fact, repeatedly. But if god forbid it is not, I will simply remind you, politely, that much of the alleged scaremongering was in fact, fact, so best start making up your excuses now.

Presumably the cease-fire starts at Midnight ?

It just gives me time to remind you that I have a copy of your prediction that Sterling would slump by 20%.

Obviously if the GBP/THB rate is anything over 40, the reminder will be on me!

You will need to post a link to that "prediction" because I don't believe any such thing exists plus we are now all well aware of your propensity to tell, ahem, porkies!

................. and yet you cite no evidence for that accusation ?

A common characteristic for a Remoaner.

Come on Jip, Guesthouse owns you and soon I will too unless you prove what you say, where's the link, you said you have a copy?