Palestinian car driver shot dead by Israeli soldiers

[Happy Grumpy]

the Israeli soldiers are trained to kill .

I think you will find that's a global epidemic.

Killing is generally what soldiers are trained to do.

[MisterTee]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

The term ​irredentist ​only applies to the Palestinian factions who claim the entire territory of the state of Israel.

It has nothing to do with the indigenous inhabitants of occupied Palestine.

Giving these people the ​"...alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity" ​i​s what the hard-core Zionists intend to do, but they are too dishonest to say it straight out.

[Morch]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

The term ​irredentist ​only applies to the Palestinian factions who claim the entire territory of the state of Israel.

It has nothing to do with the indigenous inhabitants of occupied Palestine.

Giving these people the ​"...alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity" ​i​s what the hard-core Zionists intend to do, but they are too dishonest to say it straight out.

So...the "Palestinian factions who claim the entire territory of the state of Israel"...they aren't Palestinians? They do not represent a significant part of Palestinian society?

What you call "hard core Zionists" (or probably more correctly, hard core right wing religious Zionists), do say that straight out. But somehow they aren't taken to be a "faction", rather as representing Israel and Israelis.

Guessing the topic will now be derailed with the usual nonsense involving pseudo-historical accounts, "learned" opinions about Zionism and "informed" views on Palestinian positions.

[Galactus]

the Israeli soldiers are trained to kill .

I think you will find that's a global epidemic.

Killing is generally what soldiers are trained to do.

soldiers are bound to kill according to laws, both domestic and international.

just bc you are a soldier, it does not mean you can murder innocent people extra judicially.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Galactus

[Morch]

the Israeli soldiers are trained to kill .

I think you will find that's a global epidemic.

Killing is generally what soldiers are trained to do.

soldiers are bound to kill according to laws, both domestic and international.

just bc you are a soldier, it does not mean you can murder people extra judicially.

Preached the poster who sees Palestinian violence as exempt from any moral standard.

[Daniel666]

1. "A TERRORIST was neutralized after performing terrorist act against innocent civilians". A more accurate header would prevent unnecessary questions.

2. Those that mentioned that its inapropriate to attack people only because of ther religion.... well it works both ways. Actually this is the whole muslim philosophy. All non muslims have no right of existance, by all means. And this is openly expressed in all media.

3. Those who claimed her foot slipped from the pedal... well everyone knows bad driving is dangerous. It can get you killed! She should invest more in her driving skills. However, accident or not, is not for us to judge. There were people officially assigned for this matter and they reacted on the spot. Whoever disagree welcome to sue them by international law.

4. Was there a minor damage or big, does not change the fact. TERROR ACTS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH ZERO TOLERANCE!

5. Those who claim the license plates were palestinian... WRONG. They are Israeli. Probably a stolen car.

6. And last but not least.... all the last part of the article regarding the " palestinian furstration for 48 years of occupation...." so, officially this is a recognized state of Israel and not a kind of occupied territory. Second If they choose to express their "furstration" by killing innocent people, they should be ready to pay the price.

If you pray for the rain, be ready to deal with the mud!

[Galactus]

the Israeli soldiers are trained to kill .

I think you will find that's a global epidemic.

Killing is generally what soldiers are trained to do.

soldiers are bound to kill according to laws, both domestic and international.

just bc you are a soldier, it does not mean you can murder people extra judicially.

Preached the poster who sees Palestinian violence as exempt from any moral standard.

you see it as violence but see every israeli violence as a 'mistake' or rightful!

i see it as resistance like many on earth.

[Morch]

I think you will find that's a global epidemic.

Killing is generally what soldiers are trained to do.

soldiers are bound to kill according to laws, both domestic and international.

just bc you are a soldier, it does not mean you can murder people extra judicially.

Preached the poster who sees Palestinian violence as exempt from any moral standard.

you see it as violence but see every israeli violence as a 'mistake' or rightful!

i see it as resistance like many on earth.

Pathetic Lies.

I never said any and all Israeli violence is a "mistake", and surely not "rightful".

Resisting an occupying force does not imply a free pass for wanton violence or absolution for all deeds.

Troll harder.

[Galactus]

1. "A TERRORIST was neutralized after performing terrorist act against innocent civilians". A more accurate header would prevent unnecessary questions.

2. Those that mentioned that its inapropriate to attack people only because of ther religion.... well it works both ways. Actually this is the whole muslim philosophy. All non muslims have no right of existance, by all means. And this is openly expressed in all media.

3. Those who claimed her foot slipped from the pedal... well everyone knows bad driving is dangerous. It can get you killed! She should invest more in her driving skills. However, accident or not, is not for us to judge. There were people officially assigned for this matter and they reacted on the spot. Whoever disagree welcome to sue them by international law.

4. Was there a minor damage or big, does not change the fact. TERROR ACTS SHOULD BE TREATED WITH ZERO TOLERANCE!

5. Those who claim the license plates were palestinian... WRONG. They are Israeli. Probably a stolen car.

6. And last but not least.... all the last part of the article regarding the " palestinian furstration for 48 years of occupation...." so, officially this is a recognized state of Israel and not a kind of occupied territory. Second If they choose to express their "furstration" by killing innocent people, they should be ready to pay the price.

If you pray for the rain, be ready to deal with the mud!

1. terror for you and resistance for some. that header you want can be seen at pro zionist fascist media outlets in israel.

2. there is no such muslim philosophy. again a muslim hater with hate rhetoric therefore you are partial. what i hear, fascist pro zionist (for most but not all) philosophy is to kill every muslim there as an ethnic cleansing and steal the rest of the land. is this true?

3. bad driving can get you killed in israel especially if you wear a head scarf as a muslim lady? thanks for confessing it! that is the confession i wanted! hope those murderer soldiers do not kill innocent israelis for their bad driving skills mistakenly!

4. again, terror act for the brainwashed muslim haters.

5. so? does it change the fact that someone murdered by idf soldier?

6. please read some history. c'mon no time for brainwashed ignorance! israel everyday steals more land and support thief settlers.

[dexterm]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Edited June 26, 2016 by dexterm

[Johpa]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?

Not in the least. I too support the BDS movement as a legitimate non-violent action to support a cause. But I am always baffled by the silence on so many other similar situations or the silence against the atrocities of the Saudi government. There is a somewhat alarming lack of balance with so many stridently on the bandwagon of one situation involving oppression and such silence regarding other situations. I have long been involved with groups concerned about human rights issues in Burma and we were always lucky to get maybe 10 people involved while the local BDS Israel activists could count on large and very vocal crowds for any event. The local Burma group gets a little bit of crossover support from the local and only slightly larger Free Tibet movement, but absolutely no support from the local BDS Israel supporters. Your mileage may vary.

[Galactus]

this toddler will grow up without a mother after this murder by IDF soldiers. sad indeed:(

just look at this photo whoever you are and whatever you are supporting and say, is this child deserving it? she will never see or even remember her mom:(

[dexterm]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?

Not in the least. I too support the BDS movement as a legitimate non-violent action to support a cause. But I am always baffled by the silence on so many other similar situations or the silence against the atrocities of the Saudi government. There is a somewhat alarming lack of balance with so many stridently on the bandwagon of one situation involving oppression and such silence regarding other situations. I have long been involved with groups concerned about human rights issues in Burma and we were always lucky to get maybe 10 people involved while the local BDS Israel activists could count on large and very vocal crowds for any event. The local Burma group gets a little bit of crossover support from the local and only slightly larger Free Tibet movement, but absolutely no support from the local BDS Israel supporters. Your mileage may vary.

You can't save the world all in one hit (wish we could)....but you've got to start somewhere. I believe Israel gets so much attention because it is savable. It's right on Europe's door step just half an hour away from the nearest EU country. And many of its Jewish citizens (clearly not all) share the common values of decency and what is right with the countries from which they emigrated.

It claims be a modern democratic country. I want it to ditch the hypocrisy and be one. We can then work on its neighbors, who may take note of the civilized country next door. At the moment some of them use Israel to point out US and global double standards.

Edited June 27, 2016 by dexterm

[Galactus]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?

Not in the least. I too support the BDS movement as a legitimate non-violent action to support a cause. But I am always baffled by the silence on so many other similar situations or the silence against the atrocities of the Saudi government. There is a somewhat alarming lack of balance with so many stridently on the bandwagon of one situation involving oppression and such silence regarding other situations. I have long been involved with groups concerned about human rights issues in Burma and we were always lucky to get maybe 10 people involved while the local BDS Israel activists could count on large and very vocal crowds for any event. The local Burma group gets a little bit of crossover support from the local and only slightly larger Free Tibet movement, but absolutely no support from the local BDS Israel supporters. Your mileage may vary.

this thread is about a Palestinian 19 years old mother murdered for nothing by rogue IDF soldiers. not about Saudis etc.

if there is a thread opened about atrocities of Saudi government or about other oppressors, i criticize them too harshly there.

we cannot open threads at World News section as you might know.

and according to the rules of this forum, we need to stay off topic and we cannot jump branch to branch.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Galactus

[soc]

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

If such is the case & you are not lying to me or trolling then l have mis-judged you.

You initially seemed to me to be in the "muslims can do no wrong" brigade.

A particular type of Political Correctness that makes me want to vomit.

Or perhaps even a recent convert. l have had unpleasant dealings with those creatures & their lies also.

l have seen what some(a lot)of muslims can do & l realise that lslam is incompatible with our way of life.

l lost my future lndonesian sister-in-law, when she was burnt to death in a church fire started by muslims.

She was a lovely woman, kind & compassionate & it left my brother absolutely devastated.

You can imagine how he feels now about the "religion of peace".

And the both of us were neutral about it before.

You cannot deny that muslims cause a lot of trouble in the world.

l also despise oppression.

[Galactus]

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

If such is the case & you are not lying to me or trolling then l have mis-judged you.

You initially seemed to me to be in the "muslims can do no wrong" brigade.

A particular type of Political Correctness that makes me want to vomit.

Or perhaps even a recent convert. l have had unpleasant dealings with those creatures & their lies also.

l have seen what some(a lot)of muslims can do & l realise that lslam is incompatible with our way of life.

l lost my future lndonesian sister-in-law, when she was burnt to death in a church fire started by muslims.

She was a lovely woman, kind & compassionate & it left my brother absolutely devastated.

You can imagine how he feels now about the "religion of peace".

And the both of us were neutral about it before.

You cannot deny that muslims cause a lot of trouble in the world.

l also despise oppression.

sorry for your bad experience with muslim. sad indeed:(

i personally hate all devout, bigot, brainwashed believers of all religions. those religions are just a tool for the powerful to keep their rant, suck more blood, let people kill each other and get gains out of it.

my country of origin is a muslim one although very liberal and only secular muslim country and although my family a generation above or two are mostly agnostic at best and atheist at worst still i dont like being there. i cannot stand devout bigot muslim too but there are many good muslim around this world such as there are many good christians, judaists, hindus etc. who are not believing a religion in a bigot way. that is something else.

you need to learn how to differentiate them. just bc you had a bad experience from some bigot and ignorant muslim, it does not mean all of them are bad.

and all believers of religious oppressed each other throughout history.

some muslim can claim his son or daughter is killed by jews and hate them too or a hindu whose son is killed my muslim.

religions are plaguing our world for many millenniums unfortunately. religions are pushing our world down and they mostly brought/bring devastation, bigotry, discrimination to this world.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Galactus

[RuamRudy]

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

If such is the case & you are not lying to me or trolling then l have mis-judged you.

You initially seemed to me to be in the "muslims can do no wrong" brigade.

A particular type of Political Correctness that makes me want to vomit.

Or perhaps even a recent convert. l have had unpleasant dealings with those creatures & their lies also.

l have seen what some(a lot)of muslims can do & l realise that lslam is incompatible with our way of life.

l lost my future lndonesian sister-in-law, when she was burnt to death in a church fire started by muslims.

She was a lovely woman, kind & compassionate & it left my brother absolutely devastated.

You can imagine how he feels now about the "religion of peace".

And the both of us were neutral about it before.

You cannot deny that muslims cause a lot of trouble in the world.

l also despise oppression.

I was lucky enough at a young age to join an industry that allowed me to travel and work with many people of different cultures, including many Muslims, some totally devout, some observant when being observed, and some who would happily share a plate of ribs with me. What I learnt was that when you put all the labels and cultural differences to one side, the person beneath them was no different to me. We shared the same aspirations and concerns, got frustrated by the same types of issues and heartened by the same accomplishments. Essentially, I learnt to see them as no different to me, and certainly I was never challenged or threatened because I am an infidel. Of course, that doesn't diminish the horrendous act that was visited upon your brother, but I believe that in order for such attrocities to stop, we need to look beyond the barriers.

[Morch]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Had a child, hence this is was not an a deliberate attack. Perfect "logic". Palestinian media outlets routinely claim eyewitnesses. There's a clip, though. And this being the entrance to an illegal settlement, not that likely Palestinians would be loitering about, convenient as it may be for the story. Further, how would any eyewitness could "confirm" (they do not, by the way, just a weasel word) it was an accident? Were they in the car? Perhaps reading her mind?

The Palestinians also routinely claim denied medical care. Again, hardly likely that they would rush to a scene considering the location. Pictures and clips available show an Israeli medic unit on location. All of the above is claimed while disregarding previous posts alleging she was killed on the spot.

The original reports by Palestinian media did not mention medical care denied, nor eyewitnesses. These are later additions. And no real support is offered to substantiate them.

[Morch]

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?

Not in the least. I too support the BDS movement as a legitimate non-violent action to support a cause. But I am always baffled by the silence on so many other similar situations or the silence against the atrocities of the Saudi government. There is a somewhat alarming lack of balance with so many stridently on the bandwagon of one situation involving oppression and such silence regarding other situations. I have long been involved with groups concerned about human rights issues in Burma and we were always lucky to get maybe 10 people involved while the local BDS Israel activists could count on large and very vocal crowds for any event. The local Burma group gets a little bit of crossover support from the local and only slightly larger Free Tibet movement, but absolutely no support from the local BDS Israel supporters. Your mileage may vary.

You can't save the world all in one hit (wish we could)....but you've got to start somewhere. I believe Israel gets so much attention because it is savable. It's right on Europe's door step just half an hour away from the nearest EU country. And many of its Jewish citizens (clearly not all) share the common values of decency and what is right with the countries from which they emigrated.

It claims be a modern democratic country. I want it to ditch the hypocrisy and be one. We can then work on its neighbors, who may take note of the civilized country next door. At the moment some of them use Israel to point out US and global double standards.

Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries. Even when considering the countries Israelis (or their ancestors) emigrated from - many do not represent the height of democratic tradition (Middle Eastern & North African countries, Russia & the former USSR, for example).

The eagerness in which some posters claim to uphold democratic and humanistic values somehow fails to be applied when discussing such issues relating to Palestinian society, and the future Palestinian state advocated.

Democracies are not all similar, and the degree of adherence exhibited to ideals differs. This is only denied by those repeatedly airing talking points.

[Morch]

this thread is about a Palestinian 19 years old mother murdered for nothing by rogue IDF soldiers. not about Saudis etc.

if there is a thread opened about atrocities of Saudi government or about other oppressors, i criticize them too harshly there.

we cannot open threads at World News section as you might know.

and according to the rules of this forum, we need to stay off topic and we cannot jump branch to branch.

She was not murdered. Even if it would be proven (and it wasn't) that her actions were not a deliberate attack. Not all deaths are tagged as "murder". Doubt this will get through, though.

Keep that "off topic" reference in mind next time you compare Israel with unsavory countries and regimes. Then go on one when it will be pointed out.

[SgtRock]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Had a child, hence this is was not an a deliberate attack. Perfect "logic". Palestinian media outlets routinely claim eyewitnesses. There's a clip, though. And this being the entrance to an illegal settlement, not that likely Palestinians would be loitering about, convenient as it may be for the story. Further, how would any eyewitness could "confirm" (they do not, by the way, just a weasel word) it was an accident? Were they in the car? Perhaps reading her mind?

The Palestinians also routinely claim denied medical care. Again, hardly likely that they would rush to a scene considering the location. Pictures and clips available show an Israeli medic unit on location. All of the above is claimed while disregarding previous posts alleging she was killed on the spot.

The original reports by Palestinian media did not mention medical care denied, nor eyewitnesses. These are later additions. And no real support is offered to substantiate them.

I do not know why you bother Morch.

The poster has no knowledge of terrorist MO's

S/He has no knowledge of Military MO's

Has no knowledge of R of E.

Is quite happy to believe unsubstantiated reports and is unwilling to believe what is seen in a video of the incident.

And to cap it all, the woman had a child so there is no way she could possibly have been a terrorist.

It is probably not allowed but I could provide a long list of female terrorists, and most of them had children.

[Morch]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Had a child, hence this is was not an a deliberate attack. Perfect "logic". Palestinian media outlets routinely claim eyewitnesses. There's a clip, though. And this being the entrance to an illegal settlement, not that likely Palestinians would be loitering about, convenient as it may be for the story. Further, how would any eyewitness could "confirm" (they do not, by the way, just a weasel word) it was an accident? Were they in the car? Perhaps reading her mind?

The Palestinians also routinely claim denied medical care. Again, hardly likely that they would rush to a scene considering the location. Pictures and clips available show an Israeli medic unit on location. All of the above is claimed while disregarding previous posts alleging she was killed on the spot.

The original reports by Palestinian media did not mention medical care denied, nor eyewitnesses. These are later additions. And no real support is offered to substantiate them.

I do not know why you bother Morch.

The poster has no knowledge of terrorist MO's

S/He has no knowledge of Military MO's

Has no knowledge of R of E.

Is quite happy to believe unsubstantiated reports and is unwilling to believe what is seen in a video of the incident.

And to cap it all, the woman had a child so there is no way she could possibly have been a terrorist.

It is probably not allowed but I could provide a long list of female terrorists, and most of them had children.

I have no idea how posters are familiar with Palestinian society. The likelihood of a 18-19yo woman, and a young mom at that, driving around without being escorted is a bit of stretch, though. There would usually be a male companion (always family), or an older female chaperon.

EDIT - that's without getting into issues such as car ownership etc...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Morch

[SgtRock]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Had a child, hence this is was not an a deliberate attack. Perfect "logic". Palestinian media outlets routinely claim eyewitnesses. There's a clip, though. And this being the entrance to an illegal settlement, not that likely Palestinians would be loitering about, convenient as it may be for the story. Further, how would any eyewitness could "confirm" (they do not, by the way, just a weasel word) it was an accident? Were they in the car? Perhaps reading her mind?

The Palestinians also routinely claim denied medical care. Again, hardly likely that they would rush to a scene considering the location. Pictures and clips available show an Israeli medic unit on location. All of the above is claimed while disregarding previous posts alleging she was killed on the spot.

The original reports by Palestinian media did not mention medical care denied, nor eyewitnesses. These are later additions. And no real support is offered to substantiate them.

I do not know why you bother Morch.

The poster has no knowledge of terrorist MO's

S/He has no knowledge of Military MO's

Has no knowledge of R of E.

Is quite happy to believe unsubstantiated reports and is unwilling to believe what is seen in a video of the incident.

And to cap it all, the woman had a child so there is no way she could possibly have been a terrorist.

It is probably not allowed but I could provide a long list of female terrorists, and most of them had children.

I have no idea how posters are familiar with Palestinian society. The likelihood of a 18-19yo woman, and a young mom at that, driving around without being escorted is a bit of stretch, though. There would usually be a male companion (always family), or an older female chaperon.

EDIT - that's without getting into issues such as car ownership etc...

All valid points which I had not considered.

I looked at the articles, video's and considered the incident from a terrorist / Military perspective.

[dexterm]

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?

Not in the least. I too support the BDS movement as a legitimate non-violent action to support a cause. But I am always baffled by the silence on so many other similar situations or the silence against the atrocities of the Saudi government. There is a somewhat alarming lack of balance with so many stridently on the bandwagon of one situation involving oppression and such silence regarding other situations. I have long been involved with groups concerned about human rights issues in Burma and we were always lucky to get maybe 10 people involved while the local BDS Israel activists could count on large and very vocal crowds for any event. The local Burma group gets a little bit of crossover support from the local and only slightly larger Free Tibet movement, but absolutely no support from the local BDS Israel supporters. Your mileage may vary.

You can't save the world all in one hit (wish we could)....but you've got to start somewhere. I believe Israel gets so much attention because it is savable. It's right on Europe's door step just half an hour away from the nearest EU country. And many of its Jewish citizens (clearly not all) share the common values of decency and what is right with the countries from which they emigrated.

It claims be a modern democratic country. I want it to ditch the hypocrisy and be one. We can then work on its neighbors, who may take note of the civilized country next door. At the moment some of them use Israel to point out US and global double standards.

Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries. Even when considering the countries Israelis (or their ancestors) emigrated from - many do not represent the height of democratic tradition (Middle Eastern & North African countries, Russia & the former USSR, for example).

The eagerness in which some posters claim to uphold democratic and humanistic values somehow fails to be applied when discussing such issues relating to Palestinian society, and the future Palestinian state advocated.

Democracies are not all similar, and the degree of adherence exhibited to ideals differs. This is only denied by those repeatedly airing talking points.

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now? Yet despite all the waves of Jewish immgration and locally born Sabras, Palestinians still form the majority in Israeli controlled territory.

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

Edited June 27, 2016 by dexterm

[Galactus]

The 18 year old was the mother of a young child. Another reason to believe this was a pure accident, as eyewitnesses below confirm.

Again the wounded woman was denied medical help, and possibly allowed to bleed to death, as we have seen in several recent incidents.

"Palestinian medics rushed to the scene, but the soldiers prevented them from approaching al-Khdour, and closed the entire area after declaring it a closed military zone. Although the army is alleging she was shot dead after deliberately ramming Israelis, eyewitnesses said the incident appeared to be a traffic accident after she lost control of her car, and crashed into the settlers vehicle."

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/palestinian-repeatedly-occupation/#sthash.OAlBQNtM.dpuf

Had a child, hence this is was not an a deliberate attack. Perfect "logic". Palestinian media outlets routinely claim eyewitnesses. There's a clip, though. And this being the entrance to an illegal settlement, not that likely Palestinians would be loitering about, convenient as it may be for the story. Further, how would any eyewitness could "confirm" (they do not, by the way, just a weasel word) it was an accident? Were they in the car? Perhaps reading her mind?

The Palestinians also routinely claim denied medical care. Again, hardly likely that they would rush to a scene considering the location. Pictures and clips available show an Israeli medic unit on location. All of the above is claimed while disregarding previous posts alleging she was killed on the spot.

The original reports by Palestinian media did not mention medical care denied, nor eyewitnesses. These are later additions. And no real support is offered to substantiate them.

I do not know why you bother Morch.

The poster has no knowledge of terrorist MO's

S/He has no knowledge of Military MO's

Has no knowledge of R of E.

Is quite happy to believe unsubstantiated reports and is unwilling to believe what is seen in a video of the incident.

And to cap it all, the woman had a child so there is no way she could possibly have been a terrorist.

It is probably not allowed but I could provide a long list of female terrorists, and most of them had children.

I have no idea how posters are familiar with Palestinian society. The likelihood of a 18-19yo woman, and a young mom at that, driving around without being escorted is a bit of stretch, though. There would usually be a male companion (always family), or an older female chaperon.

EDIT - that's without getting into issues such as car ownership etc...

please no generalizations. i have been through many countries including many muslim one.

not all muslim countries are bigot Saudi Arabia with no respect for women and you know it.

Women cannot drive car only in Saudi Arabia as a muslim country legally and some very bigot reactionary muslim ones unofficially.

and they dont need to be escorted usually by a man apart from Saudi Arabia and some bigot muslim countries.

Typical generalization propaganda.

instead, you gave to ask yourself, why on earth a 19 years old women who has a toddler wants to do such action?

or is it fair for her toddler as she will never see her mom again or remember?

and what about women in Israel? Can they drive alone in occupied land??

[SgtRock]

Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries. Even when considering the countries Israelis (or their ancestors) emigrated from - many do not represent the height of democratic tradition (Middle Eastern & North African countries, Russia & the former USSR, for example).

The eagerness in which some posters claim to uphold democratic and humanistic values somehow fails to be applied when discussing such issues relating to Palestinian society, and the future Palestinian state advocated.

Democracies are not all similar, and the degree of adherence exhibited to ideals differs. This is only denied by those repeatedly airing talking points.

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now?

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

You are out of line.

There is NO trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

There was an incident in which the written word in the OP and subsequent video's clearly show why the actions of the car driver resulted in her death.

[Galactus]

Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries. Even when considering the countries Israelis (or their ancestors) emigrated from - many do not represent the height of democratic tradition (Middle Eastern & North African countries, Russia & the former USSR, for example).

The eagerness in which some posters claim to uphold democratic and humanistic values somehow fails to be applied when discussing such issues relating to Palestinian society, and the future Palestinian state advocated.

Democracies are not all similar, and the degree of adherence exhibited to ideals differs. This is only denied by those repeatedly airing talking points.

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now?

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

You are out of line.

There is NO trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

There was an incident in which the written word in the OP and subsequent video's clearly show why the actions of the car driver resulted in her death.

strange, you can see and some of us cannot.

to me it looks like a traffic accident and even if she was trying to ram into another car, it does not mean trigger happy fascist and rogue IDF soldiers can execute her without mercy.

Israelis look like taking traffic issues very seriously! even a fender bender can get you killed there:)) wow, what a country!

Edited June 27, 2016 by Galactus

[SgtRock]

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now?

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

You are out of line.

There is NO trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

There was an incident in which the written word in the OP and subsequent video's clearly show why the actions of the car driver resulted in her death.

strange, you can see and some of us cannot.

to me it looks like a traffic accident and even if she was trying to ram into another car, it does not mean trigger happy fascist and rogue IDF soldiers can execute her without mercy.

Israelis look like taking traffic issues very seriously! even a fender bender can get you killed there:)) wow, what a country!

Perhaps you can state your Military and Anti Terrorism experience.

It would help us gain an insight to how you actually view the video.

[Morch]

You can't save the world all in one hit (wish we could)....but you've got to start somewhere. I believe Israel gets so much attention because it is savable. It's right on Europe's door step just half an hour away from the nearest EU country. And many of its Jewish citizens (clearly not all) share the common values of decency and what is right with the countries from which they emigrated.

It claims be a modern democratic country. I want it to ditch the hypocrisy and be one. We can then work on its neighbors, who may take note of the civilized country next door. At the moment some of them use Israel to point out US and global double standards.

Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries. Even when considering the countries Israelis (or their ancestors) emigrated from - many do not represent the height of democratic tradition (Middle Eastern & North African countries, Russia & the former USSR, for example).

The eagerness in which some posters claim to uphold democratic and humanistic values somehow fails to be applied when discussing such issues relating to Palestinian society, and the future Palestinian state advocated.

Democracies are not all similar, and the degree of adherence exhibited to ideals differs. This is only denied by those repeatedly airing talking points.

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now? Yet despite all the waves of Jewish immgration and locally born Sabras, Palestinians still form the majority in Israeli controlled territory.

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

As predicted in an earlier post, when nothing of substance to add, some can be trusted to turn any topic into a platform for airing their whole agenda.

One way or another, your rigid definitions and interpretations spell that in your eyes, most of the Israelis cannot be considered partners for peace. Apparently, this holds until the majority of Israelis will adopt your own views. No middle ground. And somehow, that the Palestinians exhibit similar trends, albeit more pronounced, does not bother you the least. But do go on about spins.....

You are the one who brought supposed Israeli roots as a basis for claiming that they are a better fit for suggested social engineering. Seems that even pointing out this is factually incorrect is auto rejected and used for another spin. When can't make a point, dodge to another issue.

What liberal views were "imported" by Jewish immigrants from Middle Eastern countries, North African countries, Russia (and the former USSR) ?

And as usual, the "hence" which does not follow. "Racist" how? "trigger happy" how? The car carried Israeli plates. A car heading his way at full speed will be considered a valid threat.

[Galactus]

>>Says the poster asserting that most Israeli Jews are racist,

..if any Israeli Jew believes in an exclusive Jewish State and exclusive Jewish only immigration, then they are racists.No other words for it.

>>, and therefore not proper material for peacemaking.

...That's an example of your usual spin, and not what I have said. Peace can still be made, and opinions turned around just as they have been in other troubled regions, when people come to realize the benefits of a peace agreement.

>>Many, if not most, Israelis were born in Israel, rather than "emigrated" from other countries.

...your "many Israelis" have been born since the ethnic cleansing of Partition and 49 years of illegal Occupation. Their parents and grandparents came from elsewhere to disposses the resident Palestinian population who were the majority at the time. Israel has a habit of creating facts on the grounds, then saying how can we possibly change this now?

There is a danger that the younger Israeli generations have been brutalized and indoctrinated so much by Israel's constant belligerence that they may have lost some of their parents'and grandparents' more liberal views.

Hence the trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

You are out of line.

There is NO trigger happy, racist IDF in the OP.

There was an incident in which the written word in the OP and subsequent video's clearly show why the actions of the car driver resulted in her death.

strange, you can see and some of us cannot.

to me it looks like a traffic accident and even if she was trying to ram into another car, it does not mean trigger happy fascist and rogue IDF soldiers can execute her without mercy.

Israelis look like taking traffic issues very seriously! even a fender bender can get you killed there:)) wow, what a country!

Perhaps you can state your Military and Anti Terrorism experience.

It would help us gain an insight to how you actually view the video.

sorry sergeant! i was not aware of the fact that we have some former - or current? - soldiers here.

were you an IDF soldier?

i have paid my way out to be exempt from military service. no way i could be part of any army! i always felt like being part of an army which they train you to kill and obey without questions asked is self disrespect for a human being.

and it is a brainless environment depending mostly on muscle and muscle memory. did not want to hold any gun too! hate guns.

regarding anti terrorism experience, i am coming from a country with a lot of terrorist acts, bombs, killings throughout history etc so yes, i have a bit experience for that.

usually, man is chosen for such attacks and rarely see a 19 years old lady with new born toddler doing such action.

and if terrorist attacks, they are mostly done by bombs, guns etc.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Galactus