Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

[boomerangutang]

I read a statistic a few days ago: It's estimated 1% of all Chinese are employed in Beijing's many-armed propaganda machine.

It's already known that China spends more on policing internal security than on its armed forces. Sounds like East Germany on steroids.

1 out of every 100 Chinese, ......that's a whole heck of a lot of folks. Many of them are required to write to blogs all day - in order to put forth Beijing's twisted views. I wouldn't be surprised if currently, the main attacking point is casting aspersions at the 5-member tribunal of maritime-law experts who came forth with the recent SCS finding.

It sounds like they're reading from the same game plan as Trump: If you can't beat them with facts and can't abide-by-laws, ....then; attack the judges.

If Trump was caught shoplifting, he would verbally attack the security guard who arrested him. He would attack the court. He would attack the law itself. He would attack the jurisdiction of the court. That's the same mentality as Beijing's politburo heads.

[Publicus]

CCP Dictators in Beijing are at it again...

China Announces South China Sea Military Exercises

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS JULY 18, 2016,

BEIJING — China is closing off a part of the South China Sea for military exercises this week, the government said Monday, days after an international tribunal ruled against Beijing's claim to ownership of virtually the entire strategic waterway.

The announcement of the drills came in the middle of a three-day visit to China by the U.S. Navy's top admiral, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson, to discuss the South China Sea dispute and ways to boost interactions between the two militaries.

In a further development, Chinese air force spokesman Shen Jinke was quoted by state media as saying that air force fighters and bombers had recently conducted patrols over the South China Sea and would make that "a regular practice" in future

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/07/18/world/asia/ap-as-south-china-sea-china-wargames.html?_r=0

We recall both Washington and Manila said Scarborough Shoal which is 147 miles from Manila and US military forces in the Philippines is a no-go area. CCP missiles launched from bases in Scarborough could reach Manila in several minutes, while PLA Air Force fighter jets could arrive in fewer than 20 minutes.

Chinese Nuclear-Capable Bomber Buzzes Philippines’ Scarborough Shoal

July 18, 2016

A Chinese H-6K bomber flies over Scarborough Shoal, which the Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled on Tuesday belongs to the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone. The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) released the photo on their Weibo social media account two days after the ruling. PLAAF

The effect of the release on the Weibo social media account belonging to the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) should be interpreted as an attempt to signal to the Philippines and the U.S. that China is serious about its South China Sea claim, as delineated by the 9-dash line. The claim includes Scarborough Shoal, far to the north of most of the occupied islands of the Spratlys and Paracels.

According to retired Captain James Fanell, former Director of Intelligence and Information Operations for U.S. Pacific Fleet, “My cut is that this flight is indeed a direct and intentional strategic signal that is in keeping with China’s post-PCA [Permanent Court of Arbitration] ruling statements that they neither acknowledge nor accept the court’s verdict.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/2016/07/17/chinese-bomber-buzzes-philippines-scarborough-shoal-in-latest-salvo-of-u-s-china-signalling-war/#3a089377ef24

If CCP possesses the Paracel Islands off Vietnam, the Spratly rocks sprawled from the Phils to Malaysia/Singapore, and Scarborough Shoal, it can claim a 200 nm EEZ and national sovereignty from each of the three groups to encompass all of the SCS.

The United States would not accept this because SCS is an international waterway under the UNCLOS.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

US Chief of Naval Operations Admiral John Richardson is remaining publicly silent during his present three day visit to Beijing despite the bluster and belligerent statements by PLA Navy admirals and other PLA generals.

Everyone is expecting more USN Freedom of Navigation Operations in the disputed islands and rocks of SCS given the ruling of the PCA that CCP have no claims whatsoever in the Sea. Beijing meanwhile and however, is doubling down to insist it is right and the world is wrong....

China admiral warns freedom of navigation patrols could end 'in disaster'

Mon Jul 18, 2016

Speaking behind closed doors at a forum in Beijing on Saturday evening, Sun Jianguo, an admiral and Deputy Chief of the Joint Staff Department of the powerful Central Military Commission, said the freedom of navigation issue was bogus and one that certain countries repeatedly hyped up.

"China consistently opposes so-called military freedom of navigation which brings with it a military threat, and which challenges and disrespects the international law of the sea," Sun said.

"This kind of military freedom of navigation is damaging to freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, and it could even play out in a disastrous way," he added, without elaborating.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-ruling-idUSKCN0ZY0FJ

During a hearing in Congress retired Admiral Dennis Blair, former commander of the US Armed Forces Pacific Command, said the US should be willing to use force against China in case of "aggression" at Scarborough Shoal. Both Washington and Manila have maintained throughout the SCS controversies the Scarborough Shoal is a no-go area to the CCP.

Edited July 20, 2016 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Publicus]

USN is continuing to keep its eye on things CCP in the SCS...as always.

A U.S. Navy Northrop Grumman E-2C Hawkeye (BuNo 165812) from Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron 115 (VAW-115) "Liberty Bells" makes an arrested landing on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) in the South China Sea, July 10th. Ronald Reagan, the Carrier Strike Group Five (CSG-5) flagship, was on patrol in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E-2C_Hawkeye_of_VAW-115_lands_on_USS_Ronald_Reagan_(CVN-76)_in_July_2016.JPG

[SheungWan]

We can certainly accuse the hypocritical CCP of the one thing they accuse others of, namely 'picking quarrels and provoking disputes'.

[boomerangutang]

We can certainly accuse the hypocritical CCP of the one thing they accuse others of, namely 'picking quarrels and provoking disputes'.

I agree. Psychology 101: Very often the people who are most vociferous in blaming/condemning others for something, are the people who are clandestinely doing the same naughty things they accuse others of doing.

some examples:

>>> Bible thumpers preaching in the pulpit about the abomination of sexual predation - are often the people who do it most intensely.

>>> Trump wailing that a group of young men should be executed for raping a young woman in Central Park. Trump took out a full page ad in the NY Times advocating harsh punishments. The men were, after many years in prison, later found innocent. Concurrent to shouting about harsh treatment of rapists, Trump was (allegedly, according to court documents) having forced sex (four times) with a 13 year old runaway girl that his convicted pedophile buddy found in a bus station. The girl's 13 yr old friend, Maria, has been missing since those raucous sex parties in NYC penthouses. Where is the other girl?

>>> China strutting around name-calling US Navy for violations - which Chinese themselves are doing. US Navy has thus far just been hanging in the region, ready to assist Fils if needed.

[Publicus]

We can certainly accuse the hypocritical CCP of the one thing they accuse others of, namely 'picking quarrels and provoking disputes'.

I agree. Psychology 101: Very often the people who are most vociferous in blaming/condemning others for something, are the people who are clandestinely doing the same naughty things they accuse others of doing.

some examples:

>>> Bible thumpers preaching in the pulpit about the abomination of sexual predation - are often the people who do it most intensely.

>>> Trump wailing that a group of young men should be executed for raping a young woman in Central Park. Trump took out a full page ad in the NY Times advocating harsh punishments. The men were, after many years in prison, later found innocent. Concurrent to shouting about harsh treatment of rapists, Trump was (allegedly, according to court documents) having forced sex (four times) with a 13 year old runaway girl that his convicted pedophile buddy found in a bus station. The girl's 13 yr old friend, Maria, has been missing since those raucous sex parties in NYC penthouses. Where is the other girl?

>>> China strutting around name-calling US Navy for violations - which Chinese themselves are doing. US Navy has thus far just been hanging in the region, ready to assist Fils if needed.

The Chinese themselves have the old saying, "It is the thief who is the first to shout 'stop thief'."

[Publicus]

Admiral Richardson delivered the US position to his counterpart who is head of the PLA Navy so let's hope the CCP are clear about it.

PLA Navy Admiral Wu publicly lectured and scolded in classic Chinese Central Kingdom fashion. Adm. Richardson said his piece privately and then made his public statement sans bluster and or any overdone statements.

US Won't Back Down on South China Sea, Navy's Top Officer Says

U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson, left, and Commander of the Chinese navy, Adm.

Wu Shengli shake hands at the Chinese Navy Headquarters in Beijing, Monday, July 18, 2016.

(AP Photo/Ng Han Guan, Pool)

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson used a visit to the port city of Qingdao on Wednesday to push back against Chinese bluster and deliver a message that the U.S. will continue to oppose China's artificial islands and military buildup in the region.

"This will not change," said Richardson, who visited the Chinese North Sea Fleet headquarters in Qingdao and met with fleet commander Vice Adm. Yuan Yubai, the Navy said.

"The U.S. Navy will continue to conduct routine and lawful operations around the world, including in the South China Sea, in order to protect the rights, freedoms and lawful uses of sea and airspace guaranteed to all," he said.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/20/us-wont-back-down-on-south-china-sea-navys-top-officer-says.html

CCP needs to get clear-eyed about the fact this is the 21st century, which means that as the big fish fix their eyes on the little fish, there is now the law of the sea and that there's a police force that shows up to defend and enforce it.

CCP Dictators in Beijing know that before they can become a global power they must first become a regional power. However, this is impossible due to the fact CCP cannot penetrate the regional democracies who are powers in their own right. There are Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, most of Asean, Australia/NZ to include India. All of 'em supported by the law, global opinion, and the United States.

Edited July 23, 2016 by metisdead

[Publicus]

CCP suddenly removing this battery of anti-aircraft missiles of the PLA Air Force is a significant de-escalation of the military situation in the SCS by Xi Jinping. CCP in February had placed the ground to air missiles on Woody Island in the Paracels in the Vietnam EEZ.

It comes ahead of Xi meeting Monday in Beijing with US National Security Advisor Susan Rice in a hastily arranged meeting between the two after the PCA Tribunal shot down all of CCP's arguments to possess 90% of the South China Sea.

Imagery shows Chinese HQ-9 battery being removed from Woody Island

IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, 21 July 2016

Defence and Space imagery showing the removal of HQ-9 strategic SAM components from Woody Island. The TELs and engagement and acquisition radars are no longer present at the deployment site. Source: ©CNES 2016, Distribution Airbus DS / ©2016 IHS

Satellite imagery captured on 10 July shows an HQ-9 strategic surface-to-air missile (SAM) battery on Woody Island in the process of being taken off the island on board a Chinese naval vessel.

The Airbus Defence and Space image revealed that the battery had been removed from its deployment site along the northern coast of Woody Island in the Paracels, a move that coincided with the conclusion of military exercises in the area that took place prior to the Permanent Court of Arbitration's (PCA's) 12 July ruling on the South China Sea dispute.

On 10 July, subsequent imagery showed a column of vehicles, including probably HQ-9 TELs, parked on a road adjacent to the island's southern harbour.

http://www.janes.com/article/62442/imagery-shows-chinese-hq-9-battery-being-removed-from-woody-island

So despite all the fierce rhetoric out of Beijing about Chinese sovereignty and its sacred historical territory, almost all of which rightfully belongs to others, CCP Dictators in Beijing had in fact begun to de-escalate their military presence in the South China Sea.

Good on them that the Dictators are scaling down the rhetoric and their actions. Wise too. It is quite the climb down actually.

Moreover, CCP have taken no new aggressive actions in the SCS since the PCA rulings. CCP has for instance given no indication they would arbitrarily declare an air or sea Defense Interception Zone on or over the SCS, or at the parts of the SCS Beijing does possess, namely the Paracel Islands off Vietnam and the Spratly rocks in the southeast SCS claimed by several countries to include CCP.

Admiral John Richardson who is chief of US Naval Operations and sits for the Navy on the Pentagon Joint Chiefs of Staff had visited Beijing Wednesday and Thursday to meet with Admiral Wu Shengli who is chief of the PLA Navy. The two top admirals had a rough meeting as the stern Admiral Wu lectured and scolded the USA for its presence in the SCS. However, Admiral Richardson blew it off by remaining casual throughout. We begin to see why.

Edited July 23, 2016 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[keemapoot]

^Yup, just as I predicted this would be the effect. I'm surprised they have acted so fast though, I expected many months of posturing, face-saving, belligerence, etc.. I wonder what precipitated such fast action?

[Publicus]

Haven't had time to contribute to this thread much as too busy exploiting the natives in Burma, but on the eve of the Hague ruling, it's hotting up. BBC journalist, Bill Hayton, who published a book on the subject was recently interviewed by the Atlantic, and has some interesting and sweeping views as he sees it from both a Chinese perspective and otherwise. He seems to think China will eventually, after a long interlude of belligerent actions, come around to the negotiating in the SCS based on the ruling in the Hague (though of course never acknowledging it for face-saving purposes).

A good read if you have time.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/south-china-sea-hague/490760/

I guess we'll have lots to discuss tomorrow.

Heya Keemapoot !

Enjoy Burma...I'm in Laos now and Hong Kong next exploiting more business deals but the natives here are tenacious :-) :-)

The moderates and trade will win out...it will cost about 50-100 billion but the Chinese will pay to Philippines and the warmongers here have to sulk in another corner and wait for another news thread to demonise china again.

Instead of all these war links, one should try to get the recent air traffic of Chinese officials heading to Manila for business talks and "secret " negotiations ....stay at the new Conrad Manila by the bay...it's lovely and the bayside Clounge there is a stunning place to talk business. That's a better indication where it is going and not the dumb rhetorics on media for the buzz feel.

History in recent years favour the Chinese ....the Chinese want no fight, just trade and the policy will prevail.

As for those who mock the classics in Chinese literature, it shows a dimwit mind that has an inability to read the languages....the Chinese classics are filled with critique of the courts cleverly written not to reference the Emperor or powerful officials to avoid execution and persecution....now if only the recent HK brethen was as intelligent as that. The smart readers could discern the meaning of the words used and the thinly veiled attacks...reading it transports one to an ancient world and anyone that appreciates languages and history should view it as such and not CCP propaganda....that's just being narrow minded and dumb in worldly appreciation of things history.

The moderates and trade will win out...it will cost about 50-100 billion but the Chinese will pay to Philippines and the warmongers here have to sulk in another corner and wait for another news thread to demonise china again.

Instead of all these war links, one should try to get the recent air traffic of Chinese officials heading to Manila for business talks and "secret " negotiations ....stay at the new Conrad Manila by the bay...it's lovely and the bayside Clounge there is a stunning place to talk business. That's a better indication where it is going and not the dumb rhetorics on media for the buzz feel.

CCP are the aggressor here as the entire region knows and recognises and as the world knows. Everyone is now spending a lot of time looking for the peaceful rise of China as it becomes increasingly elusive to the point of vanishing.

CCPs flying to the Phils aren't alone. US diplomats were there already, to include State Department Counselor Kristie Kennedy, former ambassador to the Phils and also Thailand, who flew in to meet with the new FM Perfecto Yasay.

While CCPs were cooling their heels at the pool of the Conrad Manila By The Bay, US diplomats and members of the US Senate and the US House accompanied State Department officials and the US Ambassador to the Phils in meeting with President Duterte.

Now CCP will not get to negotiate with the Phils bilaterally unless CCP recognises the ruling of the Tribunal in The Hague. The PCA ruling must form the basis of any bilateral negotiations between CCP and the Phils. President Duterte said so himself.

Duterte and US officials discuss West Philippine Sea ruling

After the meeting, US Senator Chris Murphy tweets and claims Duterte assured them he has no plans to negotiate with China over the West Philippine Sea

July 19, 2016

DUTERTE AND AMERICA. President Rodrigo Duterte meets with US Ambassador Philip Goldberg.

Photo by Kiwi Bulaclac/PND

MANILA, Philippines – A US delegation composed of US Ambassador to the Philippines Philip Goldberg and US lawmakers paid Duterte a visit in Malacañang Palace.

Senator Chris Murphy tweeted after the meeting that Duterte gave his assurances that he would not surrender the Philippines' claim to China, despite the Asian giant's aggressive rhetoric. In another tweet, Murphy claimed Duterte said he would not negotiate with China over the West Philippine Sea.

"In Manila - just out of meeting w new Philippines President Duterte. Assured us he has no plans to negotiate w China over islands dispute," read Murphy's tweet.

http://www.rappler.com/nation/140279-duterte-us-officials-west-philippine-sea-ruling

The meeting btw between Duterte and the US delegation was also attended by Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr, Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon Jr, Finance Secretary Sonny Dominguez, and Trade Secretary Ramon Lopez.

Yasay to raise South China Sea issue in ASEAN

July 22, 2016

This comes after Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr also discussed the South China Sea dispute at the recently concluded Asia-Europe Meeting

MANILA, Philippines – Philippine Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr is set to raise the South China Sea issue before his counterparts at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said.

The 49th ASEAN Foreign Ministers’ Meeting and Related Meetings in Vientiane, Laos, from Saturday to Tuesday, July 23 to 26, will be Yasay’s first ASEAN Ministerial Meeting.

This, too, will be Yasay’s second international meeting. Earlier in July, Yasay attended the 11th Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) in Mongolia, where he also discussed the dispute over the South China Sea.

'Game of diplomats' begins in West Philippine Sea

No doubt CCP will drop big bucks in the Phils too, especially for the rail lines Duterte wants in his home province of Mindanao and for other projects that will benefit the Phils. However, unless CCP agrees that the PCA rulings are the bases of any bilateral negotiations, the CCP's bucks will be strictly a most generous donation to the people of the Phils.

Edited July 23, 2016 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[LawrenceChee]

^Yup, just as I predicted this would be the effect. I'm surprised they have acted so fast though, I expected many months of posturing, face-saving, belligerence, etc.. I wonder what precipitated such fast action?

the business interests won out ...although the next part coming may surprise some...

[LawrenceChee]

The new Conrad by the bay is very nice Comrade P....try the suite rooms....it's a different experience all together and there are lots of good food options at the MOA attached next door.

[keemapoot]

^Yup, just as I predicted this would be the effect. I'm surprised they have acted so fast though, I expected many months of posturing, face-saving, belligerence, etc.. I wonder what precipitated such fast action?

the business interests won out ...although the next part coming may surprise some...

Hey, come on, give us a little taste. You are the guy at the meetings. We promise not to broadcast it.

[Publicus]

Former President Fidel Ramos accepted Pres. Duterte's weeks long plea to become special envoy to the CCP China to try to find some common ground in the SCS disputes between the two.

Ramos who is 88 and uses a heart pacemaker had said he couldn't do it, but Ramos finally reneged and agreed, just today, a few hours ago. Ramos remains respected by all sides for his competence and his professionalism.

He is chairman, Ramos Peace and Development (RPDEV) Foundation; Chairman, Boao Forum for Asia; Trustee, International Crisis Group (ICG); Member, Advisory Group, UN University for Peace; Honorary Director, General Douglas MacArthur Foundation, among many memberships none of which are associated with the CCP China.

CCP btw took tremendous heat last week at the Asia-Europe Meeting in Mongolia and has the present negotiations going on in Laos of Asean Foreign Ministers, Asean Regional Forum, with Asean Leaders Conference coming up along with the G-20 meeting in CCP in September and so much more.

CCP has to get back into the mainstream and quick.

[LawrenceChee]

Former President Fidel Ramos accepted Pres. Duterte's weeks long plea to become special envoy to the CCP China to try to find some common ground in the SCS disputes between the two.

Ramos who is 88 and uses a heart pacemaker had said he couldn't do it, but Ramos finally reneged and agreed, just today, a few hours ago. Ramos remains respected by all sides for his competence and his professionalism.

He is chairman, Ramos Peace and Development (RPDEV) Foundation; Chairman, Boao Forum for Asia; Trustee, International Crisis Group (ICG); Member, Advisory Group, UN University for Peace; Honorary Director, General Douglas MacArthur Foundation, among many memberships none of which are associated with the CCP China.

CCP btw took tremendous heat last week at the Asia-Europe Meeting in Mongolia and has the present negotiations going on in Laos of Asean Foreign Ministers, Asean Regional Forum, with Asean Leaders Conference coming up along with the G-20 meeting in CCP in September and so much more.

CCP has to get back into the mainstream and quick.

There is actually a whole group saying China should just slow down and not do anything now....this whole thing really would blow over in a few years and there is a lot of bargains with Brexit right now and refocusing on Europe could help China take the focus off ASEAN for a while...

In the south...the weekly papers focus on long term gains vs short term dominance ....it's borrowing an old classes from the journals of the Zheng He...if one could read the classics, there is a lot of a good thought processing there from someone who understood diplomacy and dominance in trade interests for the Chinese emperors of those days....well worth a read.

Getting back into the mainstream too quickly means a huge step later to climb back financially....and we all know the Chinese are a tight fisted bunch that count our pennies and become rich...

Big scale negotiations are not for everyone especialyl if you have no experience at the governance level...could make one look really naive and silly when one thinks only one point only.

[Publicus]

^Yup, just as I predicted this would be the effect. I'm surprised they have acted so fast though, I expected many months of posturing, face-saving, belligerence, etc.. I wonder what precipitated such fast action?

the business interests won out ...although the next part coming may surprise some...

Indeed.

Cambodia is still basking in the US$ 500,000,000 soft loan from the CCP Boyz in Beijing.

Or should I say the Hun Sen family enterprises inc which Cambodia is in fact. It was in 2012 while Cambodia was Asean chairman and hosted the meeting at which CCP tore up the SCS Code of Conduct while Hun Sen told everyone to relax at the pool instead.

Best tyrant in the region that money can buy.

Cambodia Says No Strings Attached in Recent Chinese Aid http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2012/09/06/cambodia-says-no-strings-attached-in-recent-chinese-aid/

[boomerangutang]

If it's true that Chinese military has removed some advanced weapons systems from islands in that region, THAT'S GOOD NEWS !

De-militarization is a great way to go. Now, if we could get some environmental husbandry in the mix, I might quit being such a China cynic.

Edited July 23, 2016 by boomerangutang

[Publicus]

Former President Fidel Ramos accepted Pres. Duterte's weeks long plea to become special envoy to the CCP China to try to find some common ground in the SCS disputes between the two.

Ramos who is 88 and uses a heart pacemaker had said he couldn't do it, but Ramos finally reneged and agreed, just today, a few hours ago. Ramos remains respected by all sides for his competence and his professionalism.

He is chairman, Ramos Peace and Development (RPDEV) Foundation; Chairman, Boao Forum for Asia; Trustee, International Crisis Group (ICG); Member, Advisory Group, UN University for Peace; Honorary Director, General Douglas MacArthur Foundation, among many memberships none of which are associated with the CCP China.

CCP btw took tremendous heat last week at the Asia-Europe Meeting in Mongolia and has the present negotiations going on in Laos of Asean Foreign Ministers, Asean Regional Forum, with Asean Leaders Conference coming up along with the G-20 meeting in CCP in September and so much more.

CCP has to get back into the mainstream and quick.

There is actually a whole group saying China should just slow down and not do anything now....this whole thing really would blow over in a few years and there is a lot of bargains with Brexit right now and refocusing on Europe could help China take the focus off ASEAN for a while...

In the south...the weekly papers focus on long term gains vs short term dominance ....it's borrowing an old classes from the journals of the Zheng He...if one could read the classics, there is a lot of a good thought processing there from someone who understood diplomacy and dominance in trade interests for the Chinese emperors of those days....well worth a read.

Getting back into the mainstream too quickly means a huge step later to climb back financially....and we all know the Chinese are a tight fisted bunch that count our pennies and become rich...

Big scale negotiations are not for everyone especialyl if you have no experience at the governance level...could make one look really naive and silly when one thinks only one point only.

You're showing your ignorance and incompetence Lawrence, on the final point especially in the post.

Have a nice day.

[LawrenceChee]

Actually being a teacher means in all credit...your internet research is all well done and very well presented for one side of the view....I wont be able to teach ...no patience for it.

However until you have closed out deals at the government levels involving millions, there may always be a gulf in the difference in views on these things concerning trade. And I don't mean this in a bad way...just the practical side of things.

Have a good day too.

[LawrenceChee]

^Yup, just as I predicted this would be the effect. I'm surprised they have acted so fast though, I expected many months of posturing, face-saving, belligerence, etc.. I wonder what precipitated such fast action?

the business interests won out ...although the next part coming may surprise some...

Indeed.

Cambodia is still basking in the US$ 500,000,000 soft loan from the CCP Boyz in Beijing.

Or should I say the Hun Sen family enterprises inc which Cambodia is in fact. It was in 2012 while Cambodia was Asean chairman and hosted the meeting at which CCP tore up the SCS Code of Conduct while Hun Sen told everyone to relax at the pool instead.

Best tyrant in the region that money can buy.

Cambodia Says No Strings Attached in Recent Chinese Aid http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2012/09/06/cambodia-says-no-strings-attached-in-recent-chinese-aid/

On this rare point I agree with Hun Sen...

But what can the west do for Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Brunei, Philippines and Indonesia...the days of proving soft loans is almost over as the west has enough economic issues on their own to waste any extra cash in ASEAN.

Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore while in a slightly better place is very volatile to external trade pressures and almost always have their own agendas that may not always fully aligned to ASEAN.

[Publicus]

Thread and topic are...

Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

Yet another 'for instance' of being on topic is as follows, from the South China Morning Post....

China removed missiles from South China Sea islands ahead of UN verdict

Hong Kong July 23 -- China has removed its new generation surface-to-air missiles from a disputed island in the South China Sea after US withdrew its aircraft carrier ahead of a landmark verdict by an UN-backed tribunal, a media report said on Saturday.

The Post quoted Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie as saying the possible removal of the HQ-9s [July 10] could be a response to the Pentagon’s decision to withdraw its USS John C Stennis carrier from the South China Sea on July 5, showing both Beijing and Washington were keen to reduce the risk of military confrontation.

“The Chinese military needed to show a friendly gesture after the Pentagon withdrew the USS John Stennis to Hawaii,” Li said.

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/world-news/china-removed-missiles-from-south-china-sea-islands-ahead-of-un-verdict-2931652/

US Navy Pacific 7th Fleet continues to operate the USS Ronald Reagan Aircraft Carrier Strike Group 15 in the South China Sea. The Stennis and the Reagan had been engaged in rare joint carrier strike group exercises in SCS since April. The Reagan carrier group is based in Japan.

Quid pro quo is good. In English, cooperation.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Yes staying on thread...it is certainly good to see.

Reading the article above. If the USA removes its carriers reducing the unnecessary military presence and removing the tension from the region which is basically diplomatic and about trade. the Chinese would remove theirs in response as there is reduced military threat from an interfering foreign power.

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

BTW, I don't see the USA brining in their snipers and tanks into Germany / Europe to counter the lone wolf terrorists. Those are real threats harming real people. If they used their hardware where it is needed, perhaps USA could be applauded more in their foreign policy of assistance and frankly resolve some of the mess they created themselves thru Syria.

On a side note, I am sure the boys were happy returning to Hawaii shopping in Walmart, Ross and getting some real pizza....those western joints in Shanghai were far far more expensive than what their usual salary could afford. Good for them

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as some personal bickering posts.

[boomerangutang]

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

Right, if a gang comes to take over a house and then calls it their own house. They would like it if, when a strong friend of the house owner showed up, all he wanted to talk about was the price of sugar and how many bananas were in the cupboard.

No, sorry LC, the friend of Fils is showing up to help his friends. Uncle Sam doesn't particularly want to talk about trade issues. The Chinese-made problems in the SCS are not so much about trade issues. They're mainly about a country commandeering territories of other countries.

[LawrenceChee]

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

Right, if a gang comes to take over a house and then calls it their own house. They would like it if, when a strong friend of the house owner showed up, all he wanted to talk about was the price of sugar and how many bananas were in the cupboard.

No, sorry LC, the friend of Fils is showing up to help his friends. Uncle Sam doesn't particularly want to talk about trade issues. The Chinese-made problems in the SCS are not so much about trade issues. They're mainly about a country commandeering territories of other countries.

Don't want to be rude boomer..

But if you were in the same meeting as the Filipinos ...you will know they are asking for trade & export concessions, roads , railways, construction equipment , farming equipment ...they have stopped asking the USA for a while now as they know that house and that good friend is frankly broke....and being a friend is very nice but you still need money to buy the above....that's the harsh reality of governance...if not you will lose the next vote / election.

[Publicus]

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

Right, if a gang comes to take over a house and then calls it their own house. They would like it if, when a strong friend of the house owner showed up, all he wanted to talk about was the price of sugar and how many bananas were in the cupboard.

No, sorry LC, the friend of Fils is showing up to help his friends. Uncle Sam doesn't particularly want to talk about trade issues. The Chinese-made problems in the SCS are not so much about trade issues. They're mainly about a country commandeering territories of other countries.

Don't want to be rude boomer..

But if you were in the same meeting as the Filipinos ...you will know they are asking for trade & export concessions, roads , railways, construction equipment , farming equipment ...they have stopped asking the USA for a while now as they know that house and that good friend is frankly broke....and being a friend is very nice but you still need money to buy the above....that's the harsh reality of governance...if not you will lose the next vote / election.

For the umteenth time, topic and thread are:

Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

Trade is not the topic of the thread nor is it related to Beijing conducting military exercises or activities in the South China Sea. Presumptuous lectures on trade and governance belong elsewhere.

[LawrenceChee]

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

Right, if a gang comes to take over a house and then calls it their own house. They would like it if, when a strong friend of the house owner showed up, all he wanted to talk about was the price of sugar and how many bananas were in the cupboard.

No, sorry LC, the friend of Fils is showing up to help his friends. Uncle Sam doesn't particularly want to talk about trade issues. The Chinese-made problems in the SCS are not so much about trade issues. They're mainly about a country commandeering territories of other countries.

Don't want to be rude boomer..

But if you were in the same meeting as the Filipinos ...you will know they are asking for trade & export concessions, roads , railways, construction equipment , farming equipment ...they have stopped asking the USA for a while now as they know that house and that good friend is frankly broke....and being a friend is very nice but you still need money to buy the above....that's the harsh reality of governance...if not you will lose the next vote / election.

For the umteenth time, topic and thread are:

Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

Trade is not the topic of the thread nor is it related to Beijing conducting military exercises or activities in the South China Sea. Presumptuous lectures on trade and governance belong elsewhere.

That's between me and boomer or are you trying to stifle free speech and being all prussy about rules... ? We can start another thread....but who are you to tell us what to do ? USA again ? :-) It's sunday be happy mate !

[Publicus]

China is a communist state and national pride has been on the agenda for all communist states.

This makes the North Korean co-ordinated parade flashcards such a great show to watch....minus the pun, it's an amazing display of co-ordination when they flips the pictures and I always wonder how they do it.

As such,. some media will be reporting this as a nationalistic thing to rise up to so that the groups who are ultra hardliners can be pleased and the moderates on the south continue with our WSJ, NYT,. FT, SMCP etc and vpns to access alternative viewpoints and there will be those who are wont care what this ruling means especially for those in the Yunnan mountains areas where they don't see any ocean shorelines at all. If the mountains are moving, they will be worried...some small islands they could not care less.

So while the warmongers make it sound like the entire 1.4 billion Chinese are fed on one drip being brainwashed with the same ideas...the reality on the ground is the diversity of opinions ranges from the crazy to the indifferent.

In about 6 months, this will be news that nothing has happen or changed....that's when it becomes interesting ...not the present moment.

In about 6 months, this will be news that nothing has happen or changed....that's when it becomes interesting ...not the present moment.

The more time that passes, after six months for instance, the more CCP Dictators will need to accept the ruling of the UNCLOS Tribunal in The Hague. Time is not on the side of the CCP Klutzes in Beijing as they only sink deeper into it.

In September CCP Boyz will host the G-20 in Hangzhou on the East Sea so they're currently on their best SCS behavior. CCP's best SCS behavior is to be their normal bully but to speak more quietly, less often, and to keep the knife at the Philippines' throat.

Philippines lead lawyer at the Tribunal Paul Reichler of the Washington-Boston firm Foley Hoag said that over time Beijing will need to recognise the ruling and that it necessarily will need to comply...

He predicted China would face pressure to abide by the ruling from other rival claimants, including Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia. "It may be that in time ... the Chinese will come to realize that they have more to lose than to gain from creating a chaotic, lawless situation," he said.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/06/30/16/china-risks-outlaw-status-if-it-rejects-south-china-sea-ruling-lawyer

Former Phils prez Fidel Ramos can do only so much as the special envoy to Beijing to try to work out trade deals, which is what Prez Rodrigo Duterte has appointed the 88 year old brain dead Ramos to do (Ramos suffers from a decreased flow of blood to the brain and has a heart pacemaker). (Duterte's brain is not in such a good shape either.)

Ramos however may well be wasting his time.

Phils Solicitor General Jose Calido says no trade deals can be made that impact the Tribunal's ruling unless and until CCP recognise the Tribunal and its decisions. The civil servant Calido says Ramos as special envoy appointed by Duterte has no constitutional authority to negotiate with China on EEZ or territorial sea issues while Beijing is in violation of the Convention.

Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay says also that any negotiations on trade or in any other matters that impact the issues addressed by the Tribunal as brought by the Phils must be based on CCP accepting the Tribunal and its rulings. Yasay also says to do otherwise would be "unconstitutional and a violation of sovereignty." Yasay said the same thing to FM Wang Yi at the Asian-Europe Meeting in Mongolia last week.

Phils Supreme Court Justice Antionio Carpio who is the Phils law heavyweight said the same thing. Justice Carpio said the Duterte two-step negotiation proposal in fact requires Beijing to recognise the Tribunal and its ruling in step two, or it would be unconstitutional. Step one is for Ramos to negotiate informally; step two is for formal open discussions and formal signings of agreements. Justice Carpio says this is where the two step process breaks down, i.e., if Beijing does not recognise or accept the PCA and its decisions, the signed formal agreements on trade or anything else related to the EEZ et al will be unconstitutional.

In short, time is not on the side of the Dictators in Beijing.

Prez Duterte has also agreed to take to congress the proposal of the military chiefs to increase the total armed forces by 10,000 and to increase military spending.

Duterte last week accepted the gift from the USA of a Hamilton-class coast guard cutter from the US reserve fleet, which brings to three the Hamilton-class cutters US has donated to the Phils navy from its reserve fleet in the past two years.

Prez Trump Duterte has other matters with CCP Boyz in Beijing too...

Duterte to confront China on illegal drugs trade

President Rodrigo Duterte is wondering why many Chinese nationals are linked to the illegal drug trade in the country and he plans to ask the Chinese government directly. Duterte also alleged that many of the drug suspects killed are Chinese nationals. "Why is this the situation? Why is it that your... but most of the guys that come here do drugs, they are even inside," he said.

http://www.rappler.com/nation/140065-duterte-china-illegal-drugs-trade

Since assuming office last month Duterte has ordered police to shoot drug dealers on sight...all of 'em...every one of 'em. Which is what the Phils police have been doing -- with enthusiasm.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Publicus

[craigt3365]

Yes staying on thread...it is certainly good to see.

Reading the article above. If the USA removes its carriers reducing the unnecessary military presence and removing the tension from the region which is basically diplomatic and about trade. the Chinese would remove theirs in response as there is reduced military threat from an interfering foreign power.

So back to the baseline of it...if the USA came to the table and negotiated trade instead of only bringing military hardware to every problem, this will greatly reduce unnecessary tension leading to win-win.

BTW, I don't see the USA brining in their snipers and tanks into Germany / Europe to counter the lone wolf terrorists. Those are real threats harming real people. If they used their hardware where it is needed, perhaps USA could be applauded more in their foreign policy of assistance and frankly resolve some of the mess they created themselves thru Syria.

On a side note, I am sure the boys were happy returning to Hawaii shopping in Walmart, Ross and getting some real pizza....those western joints in Shanghai were far far more expensive than what their usual salary could afford. Good for them

I believe the military hardware was put there by the US AFTER China started their encroachment. Which included Chinese military hardware. Place the blame properly.

As has been mentioned before, don't deflect. Stay on topic.