Eyewitness: Truck slams into crowd in Nice

[FinChin67]

To stop the carnage, it has to be put right at source - then allow a couple of generations.

I'm interested.

1. How exactly you put it "right at the source"? Does your "solution" have anything to do with islam?

2. During these "couple of generations" how many people killed by these terrorists is acceptable to you? Can you put a number on that?

[mopar71]

Fantastic point. Some people just don't get it. They blame the West's "meddling" in the Middle East or bad stereotyping of Muslims. But each of those are myths, distractions. in Iraq the terrorists killed 350 other Muslims who didn't invade Iraq, attack Libya or try to ban Muslims from entering the country.

And it doesn't have anything to to with Iraq being left in a state of complete lawless chaos after being freed from Saddam Hussein, or does it?

These are the worms from the can, precisely.

You might have a point if Islamic extremists didn't exist before the Iraq invasion.

[tomacht8]

There is no way to completely stop these attacks, only mechanisms for lessening the risk, limiting the death toll. This guy worked out how to cause maximum damage with minimal equipment and no one was there to stop it. If this happened in an area that had been closed to traffic and was pedestrian only ( as seems to be the case) then that looks like a failure of security: presumably there was some barricade to prevent vehicular access, it didn't work and he drove 2 kilometres and even then seems to have stopped not through the intervention of security but for some other reason.

But the soft targets cannot be protected: from Tokyo to Taipei to Australia , Paris, Orlando, Brussels, London, Bangkok. Whatever the motive/cause: terrorist, criminal, mental health ...it's not going to stop, it can't be stopped (sadly).

Mechanisms to lessen the risk will never work either, they simply ratchet up the tension, which both disrupts everyone's normal life and itself incites more atrocities - the point is to spread terror, after all.

I've read this whole thread and I think no one understands the situation. Everyone is taking proximate for ultimate causation. The real reason for what is happening is deep-rooted, fairly subconscious - too big for most people to even recognise. It takes big perspective to see the wood rather than the trees.

Immigration, religion, or ethnicity are easy to blame on the surface, and everyone is falling into that trap. Those things are involved but they are not the ultimate cause. For one thing, division is necessary to human society, and to evolution. People will create division out of nothing (for the sake of competition) if sufficient division doesn't already exist. Therefore it is facile to simply blame religion for this - one might as well just blame human nature.

The ultimate cause involves psychology and is this: bitterness due to loss of pride and esteem, and a sense of inferiority. There is also a crisis of identity. Note, for example, that the perpetrators often are physically displaced people. Their aggression is a deranged attempt to establish meaning in their existence. Yes, it's subtle, but it does have traceable roots. To stop the carnage, it has to be put right at source - then allow a couple of generations.

I've read this whole thread and I think no one understands the situation.

Good, you are the only one here who has the understanding.

Sorry you deliver not a single concrete proposal to solve the problem.

[manarak]

You don't learn do you?

The guy was FRENCH!

Some words I will not write come to me when I think about your evident lack of brain!

the guy had French citizenship, but was not of French nationality.

I know that for people adhering to the "republican pact" there is no difference between citizenship and nationality, and this stance has also been endorsed by French Law.

but you could try and research what distinction other national legislations make between citizenship and nationality.

Reports say a Tunisian living in France...legally or not isn't know yet or whether he slipped in during the recent "refugee" flows.

the media reported a "franco-tunisian" meaning he has two passports.

[darren84310]

Hey guys!

I just want to say thank you for bombing my country in the 90's to protect innocent Albanians.

This is the thanks you get from the religion of peace.

Laterz!

This has nothing to do with any religion.This is the fallacy used by terrorists and western govts to get the hate game going.Forget religion anyway,it is just a tool to control the masses and suck money out of them.

This has got absolutely everything to do with religion.... Yet you seem to get the last part right..... Are you confused or just trying to confuse everyone else?

[ddavidovsky]

To stop the carnage, it has to be put right at source - then allow a couple of generations.

I'm interested.

1. How exactly you put it "right at the source"? Does your "solution" have anything to do with islam?

2. During these "couple of generations" how many people killed by these terrorists is acceptable to you? Can you put a number on that?

Of course it has to do with Islam inasmuch as the perpetrators are Muslim - they are the ones with damaged pride/esteem/sense of inferiority/loss of identity, as mentioned. Islam is not to blame for that though - I hope I'm making that distinction clear.

You have to trace the origin of this problem back to its source. I gave some intuition on this in an earlier post in this thread but it was removed by the mods - despite that it had some likes - so I guess some people don't want to hear it. I think there is one central cause (for the UN to sort out) that has caused a proliferation of others (for the imams to sort out), including that of identity. On the latter, there is surely some cognitive dissonance between the historial traditions of Islam, and life in the modern world, which Muslims are struggling with.

Your question 2 is presumably cynical, but it's similar to asking: if we are to have motor cars in the world, how many road deaths are acceptable? Ask the politicians.

[mesterm]

when, if ever, will we see sanity return to mankind.

shooting and killing so many innocent people is not ordained

in any religion.

All non-followers are considered infidels according to a certain religion.

[OMGImInPattaya]

You don't learn do you?

The guy was FRENCH!

Some words I will not write come to me when I think about your evident lack of brain!

the guy had French citizenship, but was not of French nationality.

I know that for people adhering to the "republican pact" there is no difference between citizenship and nationality, and this stance has also been endorsed by French Law.

but you could try and research what distinction other national legislations make between citizenship and nationality.

Reports say a Tunisian living in France...legally or not isn't know yet or whether he slipped in during the recent "refugee" flows.

the media reported a "franco-tunisian" meaning he has two passports.

It may mean that or it may be just a description of his origin and current domicile. In any case, he had a string of past criminal infractions in France (though not terrorism related) and if he had been deported at the first instance as an undesirable alien at least 84 people would be alive, and hundreds more not injured both physically and psychologically.

However, I guess it's more important to social justice activists, and their political patrons, that immigrants be welcomed and then coddled when they commit anti-social acts than the native populations of countries to live in safety and security.

[Thaiwine]

A start would be not to give citizenship to any migrants, they are citizens of their original countries

Any children they bear should be dual nationals parents origin countries and host country

Grandchildren could become full nationals of host country.

Deportation and witdrawal of residency rights to first two groups for criminal activity.

[Ulysses G.]

when, if ever, will we see sanity return to mankind.

shooting and killing so many innocent people is not ordained

in any religion.

Not correct. Islam is OK with getting rid of everyone who is not a Muslim.

[Wilsonandson]

Image attentat en France a Nice !

Trucde Dingue

Type this in and watch the video!

Horrific!

Worst violence ever seen on tape.

Disturbing!

RIP

[JHolmesJr]

There needs to be some sort of investigation into lax French security as well.

Normally when you have a street parade of sorts, the roads are closed off to traffic, with police presence at both the points where traffic is diverted.

How this guy managed to drive 1 1/2 miles on what should be a closed off road is mind boggling.

[balo]

Trump is ready now , to fight the muslims . Get ready for the final war on terrorism.

[Dagnabbit]

There is no way to completely stop these attacks, only mechanisms for lessening the risk, limiting the death toll. This guy worked out how to cause maximum damage with minimal equipment and no one was there to stop it. If this happened in an area that had been closed to traffic and was pedestrian only ( as seems to be the case) then that looks like a failure of security: presumably there was some barricade to prevent vehicular access, it didn't work and he drove 2 kilometres and even then seems to have stopped not through the intervention of security but for some other reason.

But the soft targets cannot be protected: from Tokyo to Taipei to Australia , Paris, Orlando, Brussels, London, Bangkok. Whatever the motive/cause: terrorist, criminal, mental health ...it's not going to stop, it can't be stopped (sadly).

Mechanisms to lessen the risk will never work either, they simply ratchet up the tension, which both disrupts everyone's normal life and itself incites more atrocities - the point is to spread terror, after all.

I've read this whole thread and I think no one understands the situation. Everyone is taking proximate for ultimate causation. The real reason for what is happening is deep-rooted, fairly subconscious - too big for most people to even recognise. It takes big perspective to see the wood rather than the trees.

Immigration, religion, or ethnicity are easy to blame on the surface, and everyone is falling into that trap. Those things are involved but they are not the ultimate cause. For one thing, division is necessary to human society, and to evolution. People will create division out of nothing (for the sake of competition) if sufficient division doesn't already exist. Therefore it is facile to simply blame religion for this - one might as well just blame human nature.

The ultimate cause involves psychology and is this: bitterness due to loss of pride and esteem, and a sense of inferiority. There is also a crisis of identity. Note, for example, that the perpetrators often are physically displaced people. Their aggression is a deranged attempt to establish meaning in their existence. Yes, it's subtle, but it does have traceable roots. To stop the carnage, it has to be put right at source - then allow a couple of generations.

This really is total nonsense.

The cause is not displaced people. Sure - many attacks in the West are from people living in Mulsim enclaves.

But who 'displaced' them? In the main they came of their own volition and these communities made a decision not to assimilate. Mostly because many sects of Islam think Westerners are dirt.

Sure - young men growing up in these non-assimilated communities find it hard to find jobs. This is what happens when you set yourself apart from the world around you. They also get to listen to psychopathic Mullahs brainwashing them.

The reason your displacement theory is nonsense is not this, though.

The reason is that Islam is clearly the cause.

Just last month, Islamic terrorists in Iraq killed 250 people. Most of them families out breaking their fast. A nice family meal out. Their sin? Being the WRONG KIND of Mulsim.

So seriously - cut the amateur psycho-babble. It's leftist tripe.

Muslims are killing far more Muslims than Westerners. They do so in the Middle East, they do so in non-Middle Eastern Africa - these are not displaced people. They are displeased people. They simply despise people that have a different world view. They were not born that way, they were brainwashed.

The answer is simple. Zero tolerance for hate speaking Mullahs, countries that sponsor Islamic terrorism and places of worship that preach hatred.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[JHolmesJr]

A start would be not to give citizenship to any migrants, they are citizens of their original countries

Any children they bear should be dual nationals parents origin countries and host country

Grandchildren could become full nationals of host country.

Deportation and witdrawal of residency rights to first two groups for criminal activity.

Doesn't really deter anyone who has already blown himself up along with 100 innocent people.

[Jingthing]

Trump is ready now , to fight the muslims . Get ready for the final war on terrorism.

Sarcasm?

[MJP]

Trump is ready now , to fight the muslims . Get ready for the final war on terrorism.

Sarcasm?

[Thaiwine]

A start would be not to give citizenship to any migrants, they are citizens of their original countries

Any children they bear should be dual nationals parents origin countries and host country

Grandchildren could become full nationals of host country.

Deportation and witdrawal of residency rights to first two groups for criminal activity.

Doesn't really deter anyone who has already blown himself up along with 100 innocent people.

I hear wat you are saying,

In this case the perp would /should have been deported before the act, as he had previous

Like many have said how do you stop this happening? I don't see that we can, perhaps minimize

Just deporting all muslims is not the answer however much it appeals to many.

[darhut]

when, if ever, will we see sanity return to mankind.

shooting and killing so many innocent people is not ordained

in any religion.

I'm guessing you have never read the quran and hadiths then.

Maybe your point is islam is not a religion.

[ScotBkk]

Before all you truck haters go getting off, remember: people kill people not trucks. Should we limit the size of trucks, reduce fuel capacity, more in depth background checks on truck drivers... just what is the solution? Will France allow truck ownership to carry on this way?[/quote)

Trucks

Who mentioned Trucks - only you ? You an ex-truck driver with a chip on your shoulder. Stick to the post this is a horrendous attack on innocent people and I for one have pure unadulterated hate for these scum who terrorise our people around the world for whatever goal they're trying prove.

Something has to pulled out of a hat so we can defend our lives from these murderous Bastards.

[FinChin67]

Before all you truck haters go getting off, remember: people kill people not trucks. Should we limit the size of trucks, reduce fuel capacity, more in depth background checks on truck drivers... just what is the solution? Will France allow truck ownership to carry on this way?[/quote)

Trucks

Who mentioned Trucks - only you ? You an ex-truck driver with a chip on your shoulder. Stick to the post this is a horrendous attack on innocent people and I for one have pure unadulterated hate for these scum who terrorise our people around the world for whatever goal they're trying prove.

Something has to pulled out of a hat so we can defend our lives from these murderous Bastards.

Perhaps pull out quran and use it for guidance ?

[mcfish]

Before all you truck haters go getting off, remember: people kill people not trucks. Should we limit the size of trucks, reduce fuel capacity, more in depth background checks on truck drivers... just what is the solution? Will France allow truck ownership to carry on this way?[/quote)

Trucks

Who mentioned Trucks - only you ? You an ex-truck driver with a chip on your shoulder. Stick to the post this is a horrendous attack on innocent people and I for one have pure unadulterated hate for these scum who terrorise our people around the world for whatever goal they're trying prove.

Something has to pulled out of a hat so we can defend our lives from these murderous Bastards.

Newt Gingrich has the right idea yesterday saying among other things that mosques need to be monitored because they are the root of the problem and the place where radicalization occurs. I guess you could stick a security camera in them and shut them down if tampered with

[FinChin67]

Do you think ISIS gives two pins for your pathetic hashtags, prayers and candles? Stop waiting to be slaughtered and demand our leaders DO something!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691973/Do-think-ISIS-gives-two-pins-pathetic-hash-tags-prayers-candles-Stop-waiting-slaughtered-demand-leaders-something.html

[dexterm]

14 pages so far of the usual redneck Muslim bashing that now seems to be the norm on this forum despite rule #11.

You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards ...any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

and despite the fact that the OP perp was not a practising Muslim; he ate pork, drank alcohol, took drugs, never went to a mosque or observed Ramadan.

[FinChin67]

14 pages so far of the usual redneck Muslim bashing that now seems to be the norm on this forum despite rule #11.

You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards ...any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

and despite the fact that the OP perp was not a practising Muslim; he ate pork, drank alcohol, took drugs, never went to a mosque or observed Ramadan.

Why he shouted allahu akbar then?

Nice Terror Attack: What They're NOT Telling You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp4znSQ3WM

Edited July 16, 2016 by FinChin67

[Kiwiken]

14 pages so far of the usual redneck Muslim bashing that now seems to be the norm on this forum despite rule #11.

You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards ...any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

and despite the fact that the OP perp was not a practising Muslim; he ate pork, drank alcohol, took drugs, never went to a mosque or observed Ramadan.

Why he shouted allahu akbar then?

Nice Terror Attack: What They're NOT Telling You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp4znSQ3WM

It is possible he was part of some Plot by Extremists. It is also possible he was just some sad Demented person. Who realising he had failed in life decided he would commit suicide in a grandiose way taking as many of the Haves as he saw it in revenge for the life he could not. As to what he is said to have said Maybe he said or people think he yelled it. We do not know. That is all for the authorities to determine.

[FinChin67]

Why he shouted allahu akbar then?

Nice Terror Attack: What They're NOT Telling You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp4znSQ3WM

It is possible he was part of some Plot by Extremists. It is also possible he was just some sad Demented person. Who realising he had failed in life decided he would commit suicide in a grandiose way taking as many of the Haves as he saw it in revenge for the life he could not. As to what he is said to have said Maybe he said or people think he yelled it. We do not know. That is all for the authorities to determine.

Rinse and repeat. Dementia seems to target muslims or what?

11-22 March 2012 Shooting 7 5 Toulouse and Montauban shootings, murdering three French paratroopers, a French Rabbi and three French schoolchildren (aged eight, six and three) carried out over a period of 11 days by Mohammed Merah.[1]

23 May 2013 Stabbing 0 1 2013 La Défense attack by an Islamist knifeman against a French soldier in the Paris suburb of La Défense.

20 December 2014 Stabbing 0 3 2014 Tours police station stabbing. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" attacked a police office in Joué-lès-Tours with a knife. He was killed and 3 police officers were injured.

21 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 0 11 2014 Dijon attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 11 pedestrians with his vehicle.

22 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 1 10 2014 Nantes attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 10 pedestrians with his vehicle, killing one, then attempted suicide.

7-9 January 2015 Shooting 20 22 January 2015 Île-de-France attacks, a mass shooting at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo office in Paris, carried out by Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, two Islamist gunmen who identified themselves as belonging to Al-Qaeda in Yemen.[1] During this period, a third Islamist gunman and close friend of the Kouachi brothers,Amedy Coulibaly was responsible for two shootings and an hostage taking at a Hypercacher kosher market. He said he synchronized his attacks with the Kouachi brothers. Coulibaly had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

3 February 2015 Stabbing 0 3 3 military men, guarding a Jewish community center in Nice, are attacked by Moussa Coulibaly (not related to the January Coulibaly attacks).

19 April 2015 Shooting 1 0 Unsuccessful attack against 2 churches in Villejuif by an Algerian jihadist. He killed a woman probably when trying to steal her car but accidentally shot himself in the leg, putting an end to his plans.[22]

26 June 2015 Beheading 1 2 Saint-Quentin-Fallavier attack. An Islamist delivery driver probably linked to ISIS decapitated a man and rammed a company van into gas cylinders at the Air Products gas factory in an attempt to blow up the building.

21 August 2015 Shooting and stabbing 0 4 2015 Thalys train attack. An attempted mass shooting occurred on a train traveling from Amsterdam to Paris. Four people were injured, including the assailant who was subdued by other passengers.[23]

13-14 November 2015 Shootings, hostage taking and suicide bombings 130 352 November 2015 Paris attacks. The single deadliest terrorist attack in French history.

1 January 2016 Vehicle ramming 0 2 A man rammed his car twice into 4 soldiers protecting a mosque in Valence. He said he wanted to kill troops and jihadi propaganda images were found on his computer.[25]

7 January 2016 Stabbing 0 1 January 2016 Paris police station attack, a jihadist wearing a fake explosive belt attacked police officers in the Goutte d'Or district in Paris with a meat cleaver, while shouting "Allahu Akbar".

13 June 2016 Stabbing 2 0 2016 Magnanville stabbing, a police officer and his wife, a police secretary, were stabbed to death in their home in Magnanville by a jihadist. ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack.

14 July 2016 Vehicle ramming 84 202 2016 Nice attack, a terrorist used a truck to run over people celebrating the 2016 Bastille Day.

[SgtRock]

14 pages so far of the usual redneck Muslim bashing that now seems to be the norm on this forum despite rule #11.

and despite the fact that the OP perp was not a practising Muslim; he ate pork, drank alcohol, took drugs, never went to a mosque or observed Ramadan.

Perhaps he was just a whackjob who idolised Abu Mohammed al Adnani

The so-called Islamic State urged its followers to attack French people with vehicles well before the deadly attack in Nice.

A speech two years ago from the jihadists' spokesman, Abu Mohammed al Adnani, encouraged devotees to turn to more basic methods of terrorism if they could not obtain guns or explosives.

"If you are not able to find a bomb or a bullet, then smash his head with a rock, or slaughter him with a knife, or crush him with your car, or throw him down from a high place, or choke him, or poison him," he said.

http://news.sky.com/story/is-urged-vehicle-ramming-attacks-in-2014-10502688

[up2u2]

Looks like the Right Wing war mongers are out of luck on this one.

Seems the culprit was just a guy whose world has had the wheels fall off it.

Broken marriage, no future, isolated from society and family, untreated mental illness.

[ddavidovsky]

But the soft targets cannot be protected: from Tokyo to Taipei to Australia , Paris, Orlando, Brussels, London, Bangkok. Whatever the motive/cause: terrorist, criminal, mental health ...it's not going to stop, it can't be stopped (sadly).

Mechanisms to lessen the risk will never work either, they simply ratchet up the tension, which both disrupts everyone's normal life and itself incites more atrocities - the point is to spread terror, after all.

I've read this whole thread and I think no one understands the situation. Everyone is taking proximate for ultimate causation. The real reason for what is happening is deep-rooted, fairly subconscious - too big for most people to even recognise. It takes big perspective to see the wood rather than the trees.

Immigration, religion, or ethnicity are easy to blame on the surface, and everyone is falling into that trap. Those things are involved but they are not the ultimate cause. For one thing, division is necessary to human society, and to evolution. People will create division out of nothing (for the sake of competition) if sufficient division doesn't already exist. Therefore it is facile to simply blame religion for this - one might as well just blame human nature.

The ultimate cause involves psychology and is this: bitterness due to loss of pride and esteem, and a sense of inferiority. There is also a crisis of identity. Note, for example, that the perpetrators often are physically displaced people. Their aggression is a deranged attempt to establish meaning in their existence. Yes, it's subtle, but it does have traceable roots. To stop the carnage, it has to be put right at source - then allow a couple of generations.

This really is total nonsense.

The cause is not displaced people. Sure - many attacks in the West are from people living in Mulsim enclaves.

But who 'displaced' them? In the main they came of their own volition and these communities made a decision not to assimilate. Mostly because many sects of Islam think Westerners are dirt.

Sure - young men growing up in these non-assimilated communities find it hard to find jobs. This is what happens when you set yourself apart from the world around you. They also get to listen to psychopathic Mullahs brainwashing them.

The reason your displacement theory is nonsense is not this, though.

The reason is that Islam is clearly the cause.

Just last month, Islamic terrorists in Iraq killed 250 people. Most of them families out breaking their fast. A nice family meal out. Their sin? Being the WRONG KIND of Mulsim.

So seriously - cut the amateur psycho-babble. It's leftist tripe.

Muslims are killing far more Muslims than Westerners. They do so in the Middle East, they do so in non-Middle Eastern Africa - these are not displaced people. They are displeased people. They simply despise people that have a different world view. They were not born that way, they were brainwashed.

The answer is simple. Zero tolerance for hate speaking Mullahs, countries that sponsor Islamic terrorism and places of worship that preach hatred.

I was hoping for a better quality discussion from someone.

The reasons for the displacement is irrelevant. True, it is often self-imposed - economic migrants turn up in the west with idealistic expectations and many find the reality is quite different - their sense of inferiority is made worse, and disillusionment only makes them more bitter than ever.

I'll say again, Islam is only the surface cause, not the ultimate cause. And again: people seek division. Groups need to make themselves different and will create divisions for the sake of competition - it's built into human evolution. Similar things have happened in the history of Christianity (wars and attempted genocides against other religions, brutal suppressions of one sect by another) only we've had centuries to grow out of it. Yes, you could say Islam is centuries behind, but simply to blame religion is to blame human nature and doesn't help.

As I said, this is partly for the imams to deal with, and somehow the imams need to be controlled by the state (we agree on that), so that is a political issue. The real solution though - and the only solution - is to reduce the bitterness, to restore stability and self-esteem in the Islamic world. Entire states need to be rebuilt, borders redrawn in some cases. I would give a particular example - the primary example - that would help a great deal, but apparently it is taboo to mention it in this thread.