Unable to stop Syria's war, US offers Russia new partnership

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

> Hearing some of the renter's thoughts

> Spreading them as a government level policy

Russia is interested in cooperating with USA in anything as long as USA keep it fair

You guys are full of stereotypes and prejudices . . . My wife has a bachelors and a speciality degree (MBA equivalent) from Novosibirsk University, an MBA from Yake and is an investment banker with Merrill Lynch BofA Global Investment Markets. Lol, I rent from her . . .

She is pretty tied in to big Russia $$$ in Moscow and St. Petersburg and deals with the heavy players over there, but I am sure you do as well.

My comments, however, are based on my perceptions and knowledge. While the average or common Russians are truly struggling nightly right now, they support Putin 100% and view Obama as a joke as does Putin. Putin would be fine with a closed economy and returning to the days of a USSR type status (as would most Russians right now) provided he accomplishes his objectives in Syria and can supply his oil to Europe.

Edited July 15, 2016 by F430murci

[Credo]

The US has very little interests in Syria. There is has been almost no relationship between the two countries since Assad Sr. was in power. The Assad's have been low-level enemies of the US but have never risen to the level of a worthy opponent requiring any kind of action. Assad was also an enemy of Iraq and used the same passive-aggressive tactics in undermining Saddam Hussein.

The US has no military or strategic interests in the area, so any involvement directly in Syria is going to be tangential. The instability in Syria has an effect on neighboring countries in which the US does have an interest. The US has no military bases, no boots on the ground and no reason for an direct involvement in Syria. Russia does. Russia has something to lose, the US does not, except to protect the interests of neighboring countries, including a NATO ally.

An end to the conflict would go a long way to ending the hemorrhaging of refugees. That requires the cooperation of Russia.

As long as Assad is in power he will continue, as he and his father did, provide a low-level ground breeding ground for groups opposed to the interest of the US and neighboring countries.

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

Like Putin and Russia are good judges of character....

Loll, boy did that one fly over your hard!

Got the wrong part of the body there.

All the same President Obama has led EU to put the Russian economy and the rubble ruble in the tank while oil prices crashing down have greased the energy based Russian existence down the chute. That's because of Putin's crimes in Ukraine so Vlad the Chekist doesn't want a replay in Syria.

Putin's GDP went minus five percent last year while Putin has had to slash the government's energy dependent budget by 50%. Russia now has to use its sovereign funds to cover budget shortfalls which will empty the Reserve Fund by the end of next year, and the Wealth Fund in another three years. (It's no wonder your Russian friends et al are at your house every day and no doubt in a good appetite and thirst!)

Putin's pal Brazil has gone bust as Brics themselves are defunct cause Russia is also shriveling while India wised up to split and join the United States. (CCP China is watching its economy go straight south -- and South Africa is anyway almost as far south as one can get and still be on a continent.)

Putin moreover can't afford any more time fighting in Syria as evidenced by his radically shrinking economic base and the fact he's recalled all fighter planes that had been in Syria since September cause their parts are dropping out of the sky from the ones that can still get off the ground.

The Putin fanboyz are missing a lot here. No surprise however. Kind of you also to take care of those Russians daily btw. (To say nothing of the Ukranians.)

Yep, and if you recall . . . I am the one that said the Obama and OPEC would team up to drive oil prices and crash Russia's economy when Russia would not stop its aggression in the Ukraine and Crimea. I said this about 2 months before it actually happened and I also said very early on what Russia would do to to combat the decrease in oil prices and just how low the Ruble would go.

. . . You are just telling me stuff I already know and knew would happen long ago. You don't get Russia, Russians, Russian through processes, understand Russian core beliefs or what their end game is here and apparently Obama doesn't either. It is pretty comical to read that upon which you continue to focus.

We had an Ukrainian/Russian couple over (he is from Odessa and she is from Moscow) for dinner the other night. He just returned from Odessa. He was saying that most Eastern European's are of the opinion that Syria has zero to do with anything but how Russia gets its oil through Syria and who owns it right after it enters Syria and before it leaves Syria to make its way to Europe. He described what was actually a pretty complex transaction, how US reneged, how Putin refused to cave and used Assad, and magically appears ISIS . . . all carrying US weapons and driving US vehicles . . . as US's apparent response.

There is end game and you my friend only rattle on about the obvious, collateral damage that the big players could seem to care less about and apparently has zero to do with the end game . . . and I am far, far from a conspiracy nut bagger type and ridicule those websites and the people that view them.

Even my wife who lived in Russia and was 11 years-old when USSR imploded, stood in the food lines. experienced hyperinflation, experienced the rebound and good life that Putin created for Russians and now has been in the US for 13 years paving a tremendously prosperous path for herself and living the good life . . . even she thinks Russia needs, should and would be better off going closed economy and becoming more like the USSR of old . . .

They don't want crap from the US and could frankly give a crap less what US thinks. US cannot really do any more harm to them, but they can hurt us now a lot more than we can hurt them because we Americans are soft and extremely spoiled and could not begin to deal with the hardships Russians can endure without batting an eye.

[F430murci]

The US has very little interests in Syria. There is has been almost no relationship between the two countries since Assad Sr. was in power. The Assad's have been low-level enemies of the US but have never risen to the level of a worthy opponent requiring any kind of action. Assad was also an enemy of Iraq and used the same passive-aggressive tactics in undermining Saddam Hussein.

The US has no military or strategic interests in the area, so any involvement directly in Syria is going to be tangential. The instability in Syria has an effect on neighboring countries in which the US does have an interest. The US has no military bases, no boots on the ground and no reason for an direct involvement in Syria. Russia does. Russia has something to lose, the US does not, except to protect the interests of neighboring countries, including a NATO ally.

An end to the conflict would go a long way to ending the hemorrhaging of refugees. That requires the cooperation of Russia.

As long as Assad is in power he will continue, as he and his father did, provide a low-level ground breeding ground for groups opposed to the interest of the US and neighboring countries.

??? Oil makes the world go around and who owns and profits off Russian oil as it potentially makes it way through Syria to Europe . . . nah, US, SA and no one cares about that at all.

Lol, I would imagine that Putin is horribly heart broken by the Syrian refuge crisis, the strain it is putting on the entire world and the instability of EU.

If a deal is struck, what do you want to bet that ISIS will mellow, Syria will mellow, Russia will starting piping massive amounts of oil through Syria and retain ownership of it. The problem here is SA.

The US is just a pawn in the middle a shit storm trying to figure out whose butt to kiss results in the less dire consequences.

And then today the 9/11 Saudi connection tapes were released . . . Interesting timing so perhaps kissing Putins butt leaves a less horrible taste than continuing to kiss Saudi butt.

Edited July 15, 2016 by F430murci

[LomSak27]

Looks like the trolls are all here, and spreading tales of gas, oil pipelines ... Rothschilds, illumanati, US, Saudi conspiracies

The funny thing, this is not big or any news in US and international papers. It is not the US war to stop .... its Syrias. I would imagine that they would be happy to have Syria dismembered. Then have the Soviets and the ISIS deal with each other. Chechnia is so close do you want them to regnite that trash fire?

Lets go trolls! I think you need to connect this up to the Ukraine and the man in Dubai. You are getting lazy these days

[F430murci]

Looks like the trolls are all here, and spreading tales of gas, oil pipelines ... Rothschilds, illumanati, US, Saudi conspiracies

The funny thing, this is not big or any news in US and international papers. It is not the US war to stop .... its Syrias. I would imagine that they would be happy to have Syria dismembered. Then have the Soviets and the ISIS deal with each other. Chechnia is so close do you want them to regnite that trash fire?

Lets go trolls! I think you need to connect this up to the Ukraine and the man in Dubai. You are getting lazy these days

Lol, you must be pretty new around here because I am the one that gives all of the infowars, global research, zero hedge, Daniel Ivandjiski types around here a really hard time.

[Kiwiken]

I have never seen so many anti Russian Posters. Pet McArthy style reds under the beds lamentations. I have Russian and Ukrainian Friends hard working people. What others say to those I know from Russia is they support Putin and a strong Russia. As others have said the Russian is hardy and is used to many hardship unlike those of us in the west who burst into tears when Our Smart phone Battery goes flat. Russia has had a long term treaty with Syria as it has with India.

What never ceases to amaze me how so many of you degenerate to name calling and idioms. I can imagine you as a small child throwing your toys out of the Sand pit when you missed your turn. The World is complex . People are complex. The answers to the Worlds problems are simple. But We make them hard by making the questions complex.

Your view may be no more right than my view. But within it may be some valid points as may mine.

Co operating achieves more than competing. And the person with a level head moves more than the hot head

Have a nice day ladies and Gentlemen

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

All the same President Obama has led EU to put the Russian economy and the rubble ruble in the tank while oil prices crashing down have greased the energy based Russian existence down the chute. That's because of Putin's crimes in Ukraine so Vlad the Chekist doesn't want a replay in Syria.

Putin's GDP went minus five percent last year while Putin has had to slash the government's energy dependent budget by 50%. Russia now has to use its sovereign funds to cover budget shortfalls which will empty the Reserve Fund by the end of next year, and the Wealth Fund in another three years. (It's no wonder your Russian friends et al are at your house every day and no doubt in a good appetite and thirst!)

Putin's pal Brazil has gone bust as Brics themselves are defunct cause Russia is also shriveling while India wised up to split and join the United States. (CCP China is watching its economy go straight south -- and South Africa is anyway almost as far south as one can get and still be on a continent.)

Putin moreover can't afford any more time fighting in Syria as evidenced by his radically shrinking economic base and the fact he's recalled all fighter planes that had been in Syria since September cause their parts are dropping out of the sky from the ones that can still get off the ground.

The Putin fanboyz are missing a lot here. No surprise however. Kind of you also to take care of those Russians daily btw. (To say nothing of the Ukranians.)

Yep, and if you recall . . . I am the one that said the Obama and OPEC would team up to drive oil prices and crash Russia's economy when Russia would not stop its aggression in the Ukraine and Crimea. I said this about 2 months before it actually happened and I also said very early on what Russia would do to to combat the decrease in oil prices and just how low the Ruble would go.

. . . You are just telling me stuff I already know and knew would happen long ago. You don't get Russia, Russians, Russian through processes, understand Russian core beliefs or what their end game is here and apparently Obama doesn't either. It is pretty comical to read that upon which you continue to focus.

We had an Ukrainian/Russian couple over (he is from Odessa and she is from Moscow) for dinner the other night. He just returned from Odessa. He was saying that most Eastern European's are of the opinion that Syria has zero to do with anything but how Russia gets its oil through Syria and who owns it right after it enters Syria and before it leaves Syria to make its way to Europe. He described what was actually a pretty complex transaction, how US reneged, how Putin refused to cave and used Assad, and magically appears ISIS . . . all carrying US weapons and driving US vehicles . . . as US's apparent response.

There is end game and you my friend only rattle on about the obvious, collateral damage that the big players could seem to care less about and apparently has zero to do with the end game . . . and I am far, far from a conspiracy nut bagger type and ridicule those websites and the people that view them.

Even my wife who lived in Russia and was 11 years-old when USSR imploded, stood in the food lines. experienced hyperinflation, experienced the rebound and good life that Putin created for Russians and now has been in the US for 13 years paving a tremendously prosperous path for herself and living the good life . . . even she thinks Russia needs, should and would be better off going closed economy and becoming more like the USSR of old . . .

They don't want crap from the US and could frankly give a crap less what US thinks. US cannot really do any more harm to them, but they can hurt us now a lot more than we can hurt them because we Americans are soft and extremely spoiled and could not begin to deal with the hardships Russians can endure without batting an eye.

they can hurt us now a lot more than we can hurt them because we Americans are soft and extremely spoiled and could not begin to deal with the hardships Russians can endure without batting an eye.

We know, we know.

Russians are tough, hard bitten, long suffering survivalists who put soft bourgeois and prosperous eazy-chair Americans to shame...survival of the fittest and of the toughest and all of that. The people who are toughest for the longest with the nastiest and most brutish leader will endure and prevail. Not.

How quickly they forget over there the 'socialism in one country' USSR collapsed of its own isolated dead weight and that the Chekist Vladimir Putin carries that forward into the 21st century.

Meanwhile Russians keep clamoring and demanding to hit 'em harder with more economic hardship, shortages, casualties, deprivation and the like, cause the Russian people are tough and they can take it. Hit me again! Kick me harder! More punishment over here! I can take it. We're tough so shat on us yet more cause there's no amount of suffering and misery we Russians can't take.

[keemapoot]

@430: partially quoting you in redacted, relevant part: Even my wife who lived in Russia and was 11 years-old when USSR imploded, stood in the food lines. experienced hyperinflation, . . . even she thinks Russia needs, should and would be better off going closed economy and becoming more like the USSR of old . . .

I too was living in Russia when the USSR imploded, for a year or two before, and for a number of years after. I was very immersed in Russia & FSU and traveled widely during that period. What you describe is accurate, and that theme of nostalgia for a return to the USSR among locals has been a recurring theme from then until now to some degree. Pretty hard to get over losing superpower status, even if you had to elbow your way in half-day bread lines. At least they had their image. Combined with a study of their history, they are indeed seemingly impervious to economic hardship and for sure tougher than Americans in most respects...I said tougher, not smarter.

With respect to the Russian character in terms of end-game and Syria, I agree with you. They are among the toughest, most determined people I've met on this globe, and also have very flexible morals by and large. Those flexible morals means they are some of the biggest cheaters I've seen too, and they will always find a way around things. Very few American leaders have really understood the Russian bear.

Flexible morals also makes for entertaining social activities.

[Boon Mee]

This guy gets it. Watch the whole thing

Quinn from Homeland Understands the Problem

An excerpt:

"CIA official: What else? What else would make a difference?

Peter Quinn: Hit reset.

CIA official: Meaning what?

Peter Quinn: Meaning pound Raqqa (ISIS’s stronghold) into a parking lot."

That's basically it boys...

[F430murci]

@430: partially quoting you in redacted, relevant part: Even my wife who lived in Russia and was 11 years-old when USSR imploded, stood in the food lines. experienced hyperinflation, . . . even she thinks Russia needs, should and would be better off going closed economy and becoming more like the USSR of old . . .

I too was living in Russia when the USSR imploded, for a year or two before, and for a number of years after. I was very immersed in Russia & FSU and traveled widely during that period. What you describe is accurate, and that theme of nostalgia for a return to the USSR among locals has been a recurring theme from then until now to some degree. Pretty hard to get over losing superpower status, even if you had to elbow your way in half-day bread lines. At least they had their image. Combined with a study of their history, they are indeed seemingly impervious to economic hardship and for sure tougher than Americans in most respects...I said tougher, not smarter.

With respect to the Russian character in terms of end-game and Syria, I agree with you. They are among the toughest, most determined people I've met on this globe, and also have very flexible morals by and large. Those flexible morals means they are some of the biggest cheaters I've seen too, and they will always find a way around things. Very few American leaders have really understood the Russian bear.

Flexible morals also makes for entertaining social activities.

What Publicus seems to realize, but I am sure you do . . . is the importance and strength of Russian pride. It is not very overt, but man its strong and runs very deep.

My mother-in-law is over here staying with us until October 25th. Man, that woman is as strong a frickin ox . . ., but holy cow.

While I was typing this, the neighbors rang my door bell at 10:00 p.m. to tell me that two young girls had an older Russian women who could not speak English. I thought she had gone to bed and was asleep, but she went for a walk and got lost. I showed up and they had the fire apartments, police departs and about 10 people standing around in the lobby of an assisted living facility about 1 1/2 miles away and my wife was out a a friends . . . Just went a retrieved her. 3 months and 12 days to go . . .

[F430murci]

<<snip>>

All the same President Obama has led EU to put the Russian economy and the rubble ruble in the tank while oil prices crashing down have greased the energy based Russian existence down the chute. That's because of Putin's crimes in Ukraine so Vlad the Chekist doesn't want a replay in Syria.

Putin's GDP went minus five percent last year while Putin has had to slash the government's energy dependent budget by 50%. Russia now has to use its sovereign funds to cover budget shortfalls which will empty the Reserve Fund by the end of next year, and the Wealth Fund in another three years. (It's no wonder your Russian friends et al are at your house every day and no doubt in a good appetite and thirst!)

Putin's pal Brazil has gone bust as Brics themselves are defunct cause Russia is also shriveling while India wised up to split and join the United States. (CCP China is watching its economy go straight south -- and South Africa is anyway almost as far south as one can get and still be on a continent.)

Putin moreover can't afford any more time fighting in Syria as evidenced by his radically shrinking economic base and the fact he's recalled all fighter planes that had been in Syria since September cause their parts are dropping out of the sky from the ones that can still get off the ground.

The Putin fanboyz are missing a lot here. No surprise however. Kind of you also to take care of those Russians daily btw. (To say nothing of the Ukranians.)

Yep, and if you recall . . . I am the one that said the Obama and OPEC would team up to drive oil prices and crash Russia's economy when Russia would not stop its aggression in the Ukraine and Crimea. I said this about 2 months before it actually happened and I also said very early on what Russia would do to to combat the decrease in oil prices and just how low the Ruble would go.

. . . You are just telling me stuff I already know and knew would happen long ago. You don't get Russia, Russians, Russian through processes, understand Russian core beliefs or what their end game is here and apparently Obama doesn't either. It is pretty comical to read that upon which you continue to focus.

We had an Ukrainian/Russian couple over (he is from Odessa and she is from Moscow) for dinner the other night. He just returned from Odessa. He was saying that most Eastern European's are of the opinion that Syria has zero to do with anything but how Russia gets its oil through Syria and who owns it right after it enters Syria and before it leaves Syria to make its way to Europe. He described what was actually a pretty complex transaction, how US reneged, how Putin refused to cave and used Assad, and magically appears ISIS . . . all carrying US weapons and driving US vehicles . . . as US's apparent response.

There is end game and you my friend only rattle on about the obvious, collateral damage that the big players could seem to care less about and apparently has zero to do with the end game . . . and I am far, far from a conspiracy nut bagger type and ridicule those websites and the people that view them.

Even my wife who lived in Russia and was 11 years-old when USSR imploded, stood in the food lines. experienced hyperinflation, experienced the rebound and good life that Putin created for Russians and now has been in the US for 13 years paving a tremendously prosperous path for herself and living the good life . . . even she thinks Russia needs, should and would be better off going closed economy and becoming more like the USSR of old . . .

They don't want crap from the US and could frankly give a crap less what US thinks. US cannot really do any more harm to them, but they can hurt us now a lot more than we can hurt them because we Americans are soft and extremely spoiled and could not begin to deal with the hardships Russians can endure without batting an eye.

they can hurt us now a lot more than we can hurt them because we Americans are soft and extremely spoiled and could not begin to deal with the hardships Russians can endure without batting an eye.

We know, we know.

Russians are tough, hard bitten, long suffering survivalists who put soft bourgeois and prosperous eazy-chair Americans to shame...survival of the fittest and of the toughest and all of that. The people who are toughest for the longest with the nastiest and most brutish leader will endure and prevail. Not.

How quickly they forget over there the 'socialism in one country' USSR collapsed of its own isolated dead weight and that the Chekist Vladimir Putin carries that forward into the 21st century.

Meanwhile Russians keep clamoring and demanding to hit 'em harder with more economic hardship, shortages, casualties, deprivation and the like, cause the Russian people are tough and they can take it. Hit me again! Kick me harder! More punishment over here! I can take it. We're tough so shat on us yet more cause there's no amount of suffering and misery we Russians can't take.

Lol, you don't get or understand a thing about Russians and your sarcasm reflects ignorance.

I am American and defend and will stand behind my country 100%, but we are not without our vulnerabilities and we currently have huge vulnerabilities over seas.

Obama fails miserably at trying to prevent those vulnerabilities from being exploited because he is viewed as weak and none respects him.

Example: Even Saudi Arabia recently treated him like their little B**ch. US and SA got together and drove oil prices down by releasing reserves and increasing production when supply was already exceeding demand. After depressing prices to the point that Russia was selling at a losse, Obama was like "c'mon man, that's low enough, cut production" to the Saudis because price got so low a lot of US companies were now in the red. SA thumbed their nose at Obama, continued driving prices down and put a lot of US oil companies out of business and US oil workers out of work.

End result, OPEC win. Obama let OPEC crush iUS's up-and-coming ability to become oil independent and OPEC hurt Russia's economy and reserves. Putin, however, came out better than the US long term. Putin simply devalued his currency to partially hedge losses and his economy got trimmed to the point it can function closed again.

Putin still has his billions and is still perhaps the richest man in the world. Russians still support him. So who really got hurt? Obama's credibility and a lot of US companies and workers in the oil industry.

[Publicus]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

[keemapoot]

To accuse those who deeply understand Russian mentality, speak Russian fluently, and understand the ways in which Putin has prevailed over Obama and the US in matters of Syria or otherwise as being 'Putin fanboys' is about as accurate as saying that those who similarly understand Communist Chinese mentality are Chinese commie fanboys. There is a trend here. A trend by those who may have read at Oxford (or lesser), but whose experience with the Kremlin is largely defined as having their photo taken in front of St. Peter's Basilica. .

[Publicus]

To accuse those who deeply understand Russian mentality, speak Russian fluently, and understand the ways in which Putin has prevailed over Obama and the US in matters of Syria or otherwise as being 'Putin fanboys' is about as accurate as saying that those who similarly understand Communist Chinese mentality are Chinese commie fanboys. There is a trend here. A trend by those who may have read at Oxford (or lesser), but whose experience with the Kremlin is largely defined as having their photo taken in front of St. Peter's Basilica. .

There is a trend here

Those who know Putin and Russia and that are their champions are married to Russia the mother.

Those who know CCP and are their critics are not married to the CCP or to the Chinese. We are not the champions of the CCP.

Both countries' economies are in the tank and the civil society of each is a crime against humanity. Their leaders are authoritarian and corrupt klutzes who have the loyalty of their like-minded people.

Beijing's saving grace to date is that it does cooperate on some big projects, such as the climate change agreement with the USA. Putin cooperates on nothing, zero, ziltch. (Putin's cooperation on the Iran nuclear deal was as a part of the P-5+1 and nothing more than that.)

In Syria Putin is not looking to cooperate but is instead looking for a win-lose equation which is all Putin knows, and which is why USA and EU have economic sanctions on Russia individually and together, sanctions over Ukraine that will run through 2017 and very likely beyond that, until Putin is reduced along with the Russian economy and the Russian quality of life. If the Russian people want and revel in suffering then they are being obliged accordingly. (May as well keep 'em happy in their down on the farm misery.)

Until recently economic sanctions against CCP China had been inconceivable but now one can see the thought bubble of sanctions forming and taking a shape.

The trends are indeed unmistakable.

[Kiwiken]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

I am always pleased to see your unbiased and level comments. I am sure you yourself are and excellent Chess Player thanks to your training at Langley. Well Done

[Publicus]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

I am always pleased to see your unbiased and level comments. I am sure you yourself are and excellent Chess Player thanks to your training at Langley. Well Done

I received no training at Langley or anything of the sort.

I did work in the Congress in Washington as professional staff and I did do graduate work at a private university in Washington DC but nothing of the kind you seem to suggest.

So why don't those of you who can't argue the merits of the topic keep on trying cause sooner or later you'll type a valid thought and point. Then take it from there...

[mrwebb8825]

Maybe some of you foreign policy experts can explain something to me. Looking at the map: https://www.google.co.th/maps/@43.8525872,-12.8611109,3z

Why does Russia want/need to build a pipeline South/Southwest crossing Turkey, Iran, Iraq and a couple of other smallish places to go through Syria whose borders are no where near Europe to get it's oil pumped to Europe which lies basically directly West?

I'm not an engineer nor have I ever traversed the terrain nor do I know exactly where the oil fields of Russia are located, but looking at the map it seems like circling the forest to get to the trees.

If they want to pipe something from Russia to Europe, why not go through Belarus and Poland?

Forgive me if I sound geographically challenged

[Kiwiken]

Maybe some of you foreign policy experts can explain something to me. Looking at the map: https://www.google.co.th/maps/@43.8525872,-12.8611109,3z

Why does Russia want/need to build a pipeline South/Southwest crossing Turkey, Iran, Iraq and a couple of other smallish places to go through Syria whose borders are no where near Europe to get it's oil pumped to Europe which lies basically directly West?

I'm not an engineer nor have I ever traversed the terrain nor do I know exactly where the oil fields of Russia are located, but looking at the map it seems like circling the forest to get to the trees.

If they want to pipe something from Russia to Europe, why not go through Belarus and Poland?

Forgive me if I sound geographically challenged

I think they want it to pump the non existent Syrian Oil and Gas. But then I too am not expert just obviously a Chekist/Tsarist tool

[AlexStepashkin]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

> Hearing some of the renter's thoughts

> Spreading them as a government level policy

Russia is interested in cooperating with USA in anything as long as USA keep it fair

You guys are full of stereotypes and prejudices . . . My wife has a bachelors and a speciality degree (MBA equivalent) from Novosibirsk University, an MBA from Yake and is an investment banker with Merrill Lynch BofA Global Investment Markets. Lol, I rent from her . . .

She is pretty tied in to big Russia $$$ in Moscow and St. Petersburg and deals with the heavy players over there, but I am sure you do as well.

My comments, however, are based on my perceptions and knowledge. While the average or common Russians are truly struggling nightly right now, they support Putin 100% and view Obama as a joke as does Putin. Putin would be fine with a closed economy and returning to the days of a USSR type status (as would most Russians right now) provided he accomplishes his objectives in Syria and can supply his oil to Europe.

You're telling that Russians are full of stereotypes and prejudices,

while talking about Putin's thoughts of Obama based on some of your friends story.

Doesn't it looks like contradiction to you?...

Maybe it's more like someone's opinion? Why taking it as country-wide policy?

I can't agree that they take USA as clowns and dirt. They would like to cooperate if there wouldn't be any gotchas behind for Russian interests, because previously there were times when Russia dedicated some friendship/trust, and had suffered from it. If there would be guarantees of transparent and friendly process, there wouldn't be any "use each other".

Ofcource some people (people, not government) has opinion that USA are clowns and dirt. The same some fellas think about Russia. It's more like someone subjective world view, than a global ideology, and IMHO it's not correct to use only this experience for 100% stats. There are 100% patriotic people, ofcource, but not everyone of them act this way. I'm sure some people in USA share own patriotic "russia is evil, usa is the best" ideas too. It's not correct to say that whole USA thinks that way. =]

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

> Hearing some of the renter's thoughts

> Spreading them as a government level policy

Russia is interested in cooperating with USA in anything as long as USA keep it fair

You guys are full of stereotypes and prejudices . . . My wife has a bachelors and a speciality degree (MBA equivalent) from Novosibirsk University, an MBA from Yake and is an investment banker with Merrill Lynch BofA Global Investment Markets. Lol, I rent from her . . .

She is pretty tied in to big Russia $$$ in Moscow and St. Petersburg and deals with the heavy players over there, but I am sure you do as well.

My comments, however, are based on my perceptions and knowledge. While the average or common Russians are truly struggling nightly right now, they support Putin 100% and view Obama as a joke as does Putin. Putin would be fine with a closed economy and returning to the days of a USSR type status (as would most Russians right now) provided he accomplishes his objectives in Syria and can supply his oil to Europe.

You're telling that Russians are full of stereotypes and prejudices,

while talking about Putin's thoughts of Obama based on some of your friends story.

Doesn't it looks like contradiction to you?...

Maybe it's more like someone's opinion? Why taking it as country-wide policy?

I can't agree that they take USA as clowns and dirt. They would like to cooperate if there wouldn't be any gotchas behind for Russian interests, because previously there were times when Russia dedicated some friendship/trust, and had suffered from it. If there would be guarantees of transparent and friendly process, there wouldn't be any "use each other".

Ofcource some people (people, not government) has opinion that USA are clowns and dirt. The same some fellas think about Russia. It's more like someone subjective world view, than a global ideology, and IMHO it's not correct to use only this experience for 100% stats. There are 100% patriotic people, ofcource, but not everyone of them act this way. I'm sure some people in USA share own patriotic "russia is evil, usa is the best" ideas too. It's not correct to say that whole USA thinks that way. =]

What I hear comes very a cross section of Russian culture from Industrial, simple, common people in cities such as Novosibirsk to comments from those who are extremely wealthy living in progressive Moscow and St.Petersburg.

My wife is an investment banker for BofA in Global Capital Markets and Global Corporate & Investment Banking that handles large European accounts. Its her job/life to monitor and register the political, social, micro and macro economic pulse in that region to protect large blocks of institutional investment $$$. She remains in constant communication with wealthy/powerful individuals in the region, many of whom are her former classmates selected to obtain a Speciality Degree in Stock Market at Novosibirsk University.

Unlike Americans, the general public in Russia tend to have similar outlooks on global issues such as this because of the limitations of, censorship in and strict control over that which they are exposed.

If you wanna believe that Putin does not view Obama as a complete joke and that Russians generally view Obama as very weak, cool by me. I, however, would be extremely surprised, no shocked, if you could find 10 Russian living within a 1 mile radius anywhere in Russia that would say Putin is weak and Obama is a stronger leader that Putin.

[F430murci]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

Haha, lets get real here. 3 years or so when Snowden and Obama's little red line issue first started making this world news section buzz about US v. Russia relations, you knew about zilch regarding Russia, Russian politics or Russian people. Your entire base of knowledge regarding Russia and many topics on here seems to come from your time spent on here reading various topics and arguing about those topics by Googling for information about the topic.

You now say the same things over and over which are nothing more than US liberal main stream media talking points which many times are about as ridiculous or as-onesided as the nutty stuff individuals like Midas posts from Global Research, Info Wars and Zero Hedge . . . Although there is actually some truth and genius to Zero Hedge as Ivandjiski is a smart fricken dude . . . he just has an extreme agenda.

Edited July 16, 2016 by F430murci

[F430murci]

So for all of those that think Obama stands on equal footing with Putin from a power perspective, I will give you a few examples starting with the Syrian Conflict where Putin made Obama his b**ch. Give me a few examples where Obama made Putin his b**ch:

Russian jets not afraid to buzz US naval ships . . . Can you imagine what Putin would do if a US war plane did the same to one of his ships. He would shoot it the f*** down because he knows Obama would do anything about and he could call it US aggression to get away with it.

Obama, use of Chemical Weapons will be the red line for US involvement in Syria . . . Putin, don't you dare, send massive arms and sophisticated GtoA missile defense systems and Obama bakes down and looks like a clown.

Snowden: Putin really embarrassed Obama by granting Snowden free passage and said thank you very much for the massive amount of free intel.

Ukraine . . . do I even need to say more . . .

Iran: Putin totally forced Obama's hand to strike a bad and dangerous deal with Iran simply by threatening to arm Iran with very sophisticated missile defense systems and assist Iran with their nuclear development. Putin could care less about either, but made Obama jump and cut a bad deal creating a huge rift between US and Israel.

Syrian refugee crisis: Putin loving that because he realizes the West is dumb enough to get overwhelmed by the situation.

Syria now: Obama completely impotent to do anything and the situations spins out of control as a result of ISIS and refugee crisis so Obama no gives in and is Putin, please tell my boy Kerry what to do because we (US, France, Italy, Germany, UK et al.) cannot take it any more and Germany has to be upset because it little EU pet project is in jeopardy given the current situation . . .

[Publicus]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

Haha, lets get real here. 3 years or so when Snowden and Obama's little red line issue first started making this world news section buzz about US v. Russia relations, you knew about zilch regarding Russia, Russian politics or Russian people. Your entire base of knowledge regarding Russia and many topics on here seems to come from your time spent on here reading various topics and arguing about those topics by Googling for information about the topic.

You now say the same things over and over which are nothing more than US liberal main stream media talking points which many times are about as ridiculous or as-onesided as the nutty stuff individuals like Midas posts from Global Research, Info Wars and Zero Hedge . . . Although there is actually some truth and genius to Zero Hedge as Ivandjiski is a smart fricken dude . . . he just has an extreme agenda.

...you...Your...your...You...

Time I see to turn it around to you...to say you need to focus on the topic and the thread instead of trying to personalise the issues with another poster who you'd never met and read as it pleases you to read. (I think I counterbalanced the use of 'you' in all of this )

Your long distance diagnosis is wrong counselor so let's try to focus on the topic and the thread without falling into the trap of trying to project personalised mischaracterisations and misimpressions to the other anonymous poster.

The saying originated with lawyers or so I'm told, that, when you have the facts pound on the facts...when you don't have the facts pound on the table. No poster here is your table, this one least of all.

The wife has an impressive resume/cv btw and I know this cause I've read it here at least two dozen times. Maybe three dozen times.

[F430murci]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

Haha, lets get real here. 3 years or so when Snowden and Obama's little red line issue first started making this world news section buzz about US v. Russia relations, you knew about zilch regarding Russia, Russian politics or Russian people. Your entire base of knowledge regarding Russia and many topics on here seems to come from your time spent on here reading various topics and arguing about those topics by Googling for information about the topic.

You now say the same things over and over which are nothing more than US liberal main stream media talking points which many times are about as ridiculous or as-onesided as the nutty stuff individuals like Midas posts from Global Research, Info Wars and Zero Hedge . . . Although there is actually some truth and genius to Zero Hedge as Ivandjiski is a smart fricken dude . . . he just has an extreme agenda.

...you...Your...your...You...

Time I see to turn it around to you...to say you need to focus on the topic and the thread instead of trying to personalise the issues with another poster who you'd never met and read as it pleases you to read. (I think I counterbalanced the use of 'you' in all of this )

Your long distance diagnosis is wrong counselor so let's try to focus on the topic and the thread without falling into the trap of trying to project personalised mischaracterisations and misimpressions to the other anonymous poster.

The saying originated with lawyers or so I'm told, that, when you have the facts pound on the facts...when you don't have the facts pound on the table. No poster here is your table, this one least of all.

The wife has an impressive resume/cv btw and I know this cause I've read it here at least two dozen times. Maybe three dozen times.

My point is that you make generalized derogatory comments about Russians and base your opinion on no first-hand experience having never been to Russia and probably don't even personally know any Russians currently residing in Russia.

Both my wife and I once were Obama fans and I even was dumb enough to vote for him in 2008. I did not vote in 2012, but would have voted for him as I hated Romney. We both now think Obama is the biggest disgrace and joke of a President we have ever had. Russians think he is a clown and a disgrace. Putin think he is a joke and I am not entirely convinced he is just a bad person . . . either that or is very stupid and blinded by his own deep seeded prejudices.

[keemapoot]

^As much as the lawyer and the academic want to make this about Obama vs. Putin, we really should focus on Hilary or Trump vs. Putin as that is the next reality. In that respect, Trump is a strongman, but as I'm sure Putin reasons an idiot strongman who knows little about foreign policy and even less about Russia. So, if I were Putin, I would be flattering Trump and encouraging his election because Trump is truly someone Putin can spin even worse than Obama.

Regarding Hilary, Putin will get the normal dose of hawkish, experienced, old-fashioned American leader, with the normal competent, credentialed Kremlinologists, Sovietologists, and Russianologists in the state department as normal. I do believe she will be perceived by Putin as a much more formidable opponent that Trump, and again, with some pedigree, that is in the form of Bill Clinton, who has maintained his back channels, similar to the back channels to China.

So, the Syrian issue will not be solved in Obama's term, and maybe not in Clinton's term (assuming she is elected), but whatever the solution is, Putin will be involved. Period....

[Credo]

Part of the Obama legacy will be his ability to keep the US out of armed conflict. It's very easy to go charging in with a big military and get into one heck of a mess. Sometimes it's not possible to avoid, but it takes a lot more effort to stay out of a conflict than it does to get in one.

Any confrontation with Russia is not going to end well and it certainly shouldn't occur over a place like Syria, where the US has no interest.

The US has military alliances with a number of countries, that is where the focus belongs.

Conversely, we can return to the era of endless, needless and unpredictable military misadventures.

[Publicus]

My posts are about Russian so-called pride. Russian toughness. Russians being as strong as an ox and just as smart as one. Russian hubris. The Putin fanboy posts miss anything and everything critical of Putin, especially the facts as I'd presented them in a post to the thread.

Putin and a strong Russia are inconsistent, contradictory thoughts...absurd. Russians need to read some Greek tragedies apart from the Chekist Putin and his leftover USSR mindset.

Russia has been good for nothing and no one for a hundred years...unless you're Assad and his family and cronies or now the CCP Dictators in Beijing. Eastern Europe is finally free of the Soviet Russians and they want to stay free of the Russians which is why they rushed to join EU and Nato.

Putin fanboyz keep missing the obvious in their adoration of the guy who's never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned. Etc.

Haha, lets get real here. 3 years or so when Snowden and Obama's little red line issue first started making this world news section buzz about US v. Russia relations, you knew about zilch regarding Russia, Russian politics or Russian people. Your entire base of knowledge regarding Russia and many topics on here seems to come from your time spent on here reading various topics and arguing about those topics by Googling for information about the topic.

You now say the same things over and over which are nothing more than US liberal main stream media talking points which many times are about as ridiculous or as-onesided as the nutty stuff individuals like Midas posts from Global Research, Info Wars and Zero Hedge . . . Although there is actually some truth and genius to Zero Hedge as Ivandjiski is a smart fricken dude . . . he just has an extreme agenda.

...you...Your...your...You...

Time I see to turn it around to you...to say you need to focus on the topic and the thread instead of trying to personalise the issues with another poster who you'd never met and read as it pleases you to read. (I think I counterbalanced the use of 'you' in all of this )

Your long distance diagnosis is wrong counselor so let's try to focus on the topic and the thread without falling into the trap of trying to project personalised mischaracterisations and misimpressions to the other anonymous poster.

The saying originated with lawyers or so I'm told, that, when you have the facts pound on the facts...when you don't have the facts pound on the table. No poster here is your table, this one least of all.

The wife has an impressive resume/cv btw and I know this cause I've read it here at least two dozen times. Maybe three dozen times.

My point is that you make generalized derogatory comments about Russians and base your opinion on no first-hand experience having never been to Russia and probably don't even personally know any Russians currently residing in Russia.

Both my wife and I once were Obama fans and I even was dumb enough to vote for him in 2008. I did not vote in 2012, but would have voted for him as I hated Romney. We both now think Obama is the biggest disgrace and joke of a President we have ever had. Russians think he is a clown and a disgrace. Putin think he is a joke and I am not entirely convinced he is just a bad person . . . either that or is very stupid and blinded by his own deep seeded prejudices.

This is not about me nor is it about you and it certainly is not about your wife.

The point made by the poster poot is valid and applicable, i.e., it's necessary and practical at this point to focus forward rather than (to hang on to) the past (and the grudges) that attend personal disappointment. (The points made by the poster Credo are salient, except that USA and Russia will not engage directly, so there is no concern of that occurring.)

Further, time and time again, month after month and year after year, your posts focus not on the topic, but rather, on this poster, and on who you think and believe this poster to be...or not to be; and, why this poster is deserving of contempt. Repeatedly, consistently, regularly. Your head is clouded counselor. It has been so for a long time of many posts to this poster. (It's in your record of posts so perhaps a look back would provide or revive some absent-minded perspective of the personalised nature of your posts.)

As to Russia and Putin, he continues in his Chekist mindset of no cooperation with the USA or the West under any circumstances or for any reason. Putin continues to believe there is a cold war going on and that cooperation in something -- anything -- is necessarily not even on the table.

If Putin could bring himself to cooperate in something, it might create a new basis of relations between for instance, Nato governments and Putin's government. Cooperate on gas, oil, environment, EU issues, resolving Ukraine to some satisfaction of all parties etc -- anything of some significance. But no. Putin the Chekist still has the cold war mentality. One wonders whether Putin has only fear and loathing in him. Not to mention envy.

[tonbridgebrit]

Please note that the Nusra Front is Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria.


From the OP, "Capt. Abdelsalam Abdurrazek, a spokesman for Nur al-Din Zenki, a CIA-screened rebel entity fighting near Aleppo, decried the U.S. for offering "to support an ally of the Syrian regime and an enemy of the Syrian people." He said his group would continue fighting alongside Nusra."

Okay, so, there is a CIA-screened rebel group, and they are criticizing the US. And they are going to continue fighting alongside Nusra. Note, they're not fighting against Nusra.






And also, from the OP, "The new offer represents a new recognition by the U.S. that Nusra must be defeated to end the fighting."

Oh, so Washington now accepts that Nusra (Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria) must be defeated ? Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria is dangerous ?

[Pakboong]

Anyone interested in reading the US proposal, here it is:

//drive.google.com/file/d/0ByibNV3SiUoocmtBYXN0cDhoNVlrbG45UU9LcFY0TE5lT2Mw/view?pli=1

that link doesn't look active, here is the parent document:

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-usa-springs-a-trap-russia-will-have-walk-into/