Beach bans on the burkini in France sparks widespread debate

[dageurreotype]

44 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

There are many activities associated with a beach that requires a mandatory wearing of safety equipment, including helmets.

 

Totally separate issue.

 

Something else to think on. 2016 and you are just hearing about a burkini in this article. Now why would that be ? Perhaps because it was never an issue before 2016.

 

I would hope that your beach drop in full jump gear was not for nefarious activities. Which cannot be said for head coverings of a certain type that have been used many times for nefarious activities, not always associated with beaches.

 

Good point. Any takers?

[farcanell]

53 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

There are many activities associated with a beach that requires a mandatory wearing of safety equipment, including helmets.

 

Totally separate issue.

 

Something else to think on. 2016 and you are just hearing about a burkini in this article. Now why would that be ? Perhaps because it was never an issue before 2016.

 

I would hope that your beach drop in full jump gear was not for nefarious activities. Which cannot be said for head coverings of a certain type that have been used many times for nefarious activities, not always associated with beaches.

 

Totally innocent..... Cross my heart and promise not to jump off any balconies

[GuestHouse]

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Listen, lets get something straight here and now before you even attempt to twist any more of my words.

 

I made no claim whatsoever as to when the burkini turned up in France.

 

Except for the glaringly obvious FACT that you did make a the following statement.

 

 

21 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 This burkini has only made an appearance in France since the French banned full face coverings. Read into that what you will.

 

Either you wrote statement or someone has hacked your account.

 

Either way we must assume that any claims you make are i) very likely to be disconnected from reality or ii) statements made by someone else who has hacked your account.

 

Nobody needs to twist what you say, we all of us need only compare what you say with verifiable reality.

 

You perhaps might have spent a little less time on 'suspect recognition' and a little more time trying recognizing reality.

 

Either way - two statements from you above that completely contradict each other.

 

Own up or be owned.

 

[GuestHouse]

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Something else to think on. 2016 and you are just hearing about a burkini in this article. Now why would that be ? Perhaps because it was never an issue before 2016.

 

 

Hello ..... Perhaps because it was not banned on beaches before 2016... and its in the news so..... guess what.... people are talking about it.

 

Doh!

 

If you can tell me today what we will be hearing in the news on 19 August 2017, I'll be more than pleased ... especially any news on share prices.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by GuestHouse

[Galactus]

totally support France for banning burkas, and such religious wear from public beaches( including other religions too) hope they make it stronger and ban burkas and all religious clothes from all public places.

and hope all over Europe. but again, not only for muslim but for all religions. i hate seeing burka and of course i dont like seeing a man in black priest or a closed nun around too!

 

[greenchair]

21 hours ago, SABloke said:

 

Culture Police? Da fuq you smoking man

You obviously haven't been in Thailand. 

There is actually a branch of culture police. They come out at songkran and make everyone dresses in line with thai cultural modesty. 

I shit you not. 

[SgtRock]

18 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Except for the glaringly obvious FACT that you did make a the following statement.

 

 

 

Either you wrote statement or someone has hacked your account.

 

Either way we must assume that any claims you make are i) very likely to be disconnected from reality or ii) statements made by someone else who has hacked your account.

 

Nobody needs to twist what you say, we all of us need only compare what you say with verifiable reality.

 

You perhaps might have spent a little less time on 'suspect recognition' and a little more time trying recognizing reality.

 

Either way - two statements from you above that completely contradict each other.

 

Own up or be owned.

 

 

 You are either drunk, smoking illegal substances or not playing with a full deck.

 

I will refer you to post 131 where I answered this in its entirety.

 

Quote

Again, if you watch the link. You will see it is the French Mayor, who makes it abundantly clear that this burkini nonsense was not an issue until the face covering ban came into effect.

 

Now I would suggest that instead of opening your butt cheeks and letting your belly rumble. You actually watch the French Mayor at the link provided, it will save you from bashing your keyboard to death and minimise your stress levels.

[SgtRock]

17 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Hello ..... Perhaps because it was not banned on beaches before 2016... and its in the news so..... guess what.... people are talking about it.

 

Doh!

 

If you can tell me today what we will be hearing in the news on 19 August 2017, I'll be more than pleased ... especially any news on share prices.

 

 

 

Doh.

 

Perhaps you could take that up with the poster I responded to. It might stop you looking like coco when you try and apportion the comment to me.

 

Just a little thought that you might try and feed into the space invader 

[GuestHouse]

40 minutes ago, Galactus said:

totally support France for banning burkas, and such religious wear from public beaches( including other religions too) hope they make it stronger and ban burkas and all religious clothes from all public places.

and hope all over Europe. but again, not only for muslim but for all religions. i hate seeing burka and of course i dont like seeing a man in black priest or a closed nun around too!

 

 

The topic of discussion is banning of Burqini's on French beaches - not Burqas, though you are not the first person to mistake the two.

 

And for the record, I agree entirely with banning the Burqa in public spaces in France, they should do likewise in the UK.

 

But there is no sensible argument for banning the Burqini and every argument put forward in this thread in support of its banning has been demonstrated to be unfounded nonsense.

 

[Zendo]

2 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

The topic of discussion is banning of Burqini's on French beaches - not Burqas, though you are not the first person to mistake the two.

 

And for the record, I agree entirely with banning the Burqa in public spaces in France, they should do likewise in the UK.

 

But there is no sensible argument for banning the Burqini and every argument put forward in this thread in support of its banning has been demonstrated to be unfounded nonsense.

 

 

unfounded nonsense. ?!  if you SAY so.. it might be true then, but let people read and think by themselves, I know many muslims who believe that all theses stupids girls shouldn't wear that.. and if they don't want to understand and remains provocative, then they want it to be banned by the law, to restore peace for a while and focus on serious subjects, religion is for yourself, don't force share it to others.. specially on sensitive times, because it's a provocation !

 

Also, many muslims women don't want to be forced to wear that one day.. they fear that it will become more and more a sign for GOOD women, and if you don't want to wear it.. that means you'll got problems with males and agressive-extremists women sooner or later, or you'll avoid beaches fearing that someone will recognize you without burkanis !

 

SO opinions differs, does it make more sense ?

 

[farcanell]

28 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Doh.

 

Perhaps you could take that up with the poster I responded to. It might stop you looking like coco when you try and apportion the comment to me.

 

Just a little thought that you might try and feed into the space invader 

 

Was that a response to my post, saying I'd never heard of a burkini before ( despite it being an Australian design concept, even)?

 

in which case I'm happy to respond.... By saying... what he said.

 

but I think it was actually daguerreotype who put it out as a wee challenge, requoting an aside in sgt's post at 151

 

either way.... I think it's obvious why I'd not heard of it before... If not... Per sgt's post... Wherein he answered his own question ( which is why I thought it needed no response)

 

Question/ Now why would that be? ..... Followed immediately by own Answer/ perhaps because it was never an issue before 2016.

 

the entire paragraph, however, might warrant a comment... But I think zyxle at 123 nailed that already

 

When the law of the land is changed, and equally enforced, forbidding clothing denoting religion, (of any type) and even the wearing of religious iconory, such as a crucifix.... I will fully support that, too.... Although I will be disappointed that these freedoms would be lost.

 

if they tried to change the laws in Australia... I would immediately join any political movement to prevent this type of repression (other than as it pertains to national security.... Ie... Facial covering)... But once laws are changed or enacted, then that's it... Obey the law or suffer the consequence

 

 

[SgtRock]

Quote

Was that a response to my post, saying I'd never heard of a burkini before ( despite it being an Australian design concept, even)?

 

No

 

It was a response to the wise guy in post 156, who yet again tried to twist my words into a totally different narrative.

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, dageurreotype said:

 

It's odd that I don't find anything offensive about the pictured burkini'd woman, though do agree with the poster who said if they (muslims) find being scantily clad offensive, why are they at a Western beach? And also don't think twice about being served in my local 7/11 or market place here in a muslim majority area of Phuket, but do take umbrage a the hordes of 'letterboxes' and 16th century white robed men in Londonistan. Perhaps it's a question of everything having it's place. And a murder of crows on Wapping High Street isn't one of them.

 

Glad your one off those that don't find the burkini offensive. ... But I don't think any of the burkini clad women are complaining about the scantily clad women on the western beaches beside them.... They are on the beach to ENJOY themselves.

 

Although I did read a comment somewhere, were a burkini wearer claimed that if others chose to wear little or nothing in public, why could they not choose to wear a burkini..., which is a fair and reasonable comment

 

that said... To save Zendo repeating himself ( see... I'm listening) at this place and point in time, it can be (and seems to be) seen as a provocation to a scared citizenry, suffering from repeated terrorist attacks... Which is kind of ironic, considering how France has supported Muslim countries over the last few decades ( eg... Nuclear power in Iran)

[NativeSon360]

Burkini is just fine

Edited August 19, 2016 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

On 8/17/2016 at 5:35 AM, NongKhaiKid said:

How can a '  good  ' Muslim find herself in close proximity to scantily clad non-believers or is this an attempt at integration  ?

I'll bet the male members of her family don't mind a bit of ogling then go to the mosque etc and denounce it.

Edited August 19, 2016 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

On 8/17/2016 at 5:43 AM, happy Joe said:

I think these bans are a huge mistake of France.

 

The freedom ends where someone else's begins.

 

 Women in burkini commit no offense or embarrassment to others. Accordingly, these decrees are pure ostracism that will fuel hatred.

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by NativeSon360

[farcanell]

17 minutes ago, NativeSon360 said:

There shouldn't be any confusion or debate. France, like all other predominately Christian nations, is an "open-face" society. If Muslims want to practice their Burkini "traditions", then they should remain in the predominately Muslim region of the world, and  STOP trying to impose their absurd values on us "Infidels".

 

Hello... Look at the picture... The burkini IS a form of open face attire... And a change from Muslim tradition, in its own right.

 

and I'm sure your not suggesting modesty is absurd, or are you?

 

Ah.... I see you see by editing ?

Edited August 19, 2016 by farcanell
Acknowledgment of another's edited post

[willyumiii]

Religion should be a personal thing kept in the home and the church/ temple/ wat or whatever and not displayed in public.

 

If this is done to Muslims, it is only right that Christians be banned from wearing a crucifix in public as well.

 

No little beanies or star of David for the Jews, no robes for monks and priests and nuns.

 

All religions are evil and the cause of most killing, suffering and exploitation in the world.

 

They are the most divisive force on the planet and we will never have peace and religion at the same time.

 

All religions suck and should all be banned for the good of humanity.

 

[Zendo]

sure willyyumii, but you can't say that  .. this is incorrect behaviour and you'll burn in hell for that.. closed to Charlie Hebdos drawers,

 

RIP CABU :

and too many others ....

 

Religion should not kill people and remains what it should be : a crutch for babies in spirituality, not a political horrible tool !

 

Anyway, all religions are only Sects that have enough followers.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Zendo

[Opl]

To me, today in France, a woman living in France - maybe born in France -  wearing a burkini on a beach  is  in some way  saying - even claiming - " I don't care what you think - how you feel -  stop me if you can ".

It's not related to religion and has little to do with modesty.

 

 

  

[Zendo]

Yes OPL, but the worst is that theses women you talk about don't think like that.. so endoctrinated, they can't think by themselves and they feel really good, and think there are modest.. and in the muslim women fashion too !

 

when in a sect, you can't really think right, and only death will help you to recover from such a deep-down level of consciousness.

And specialy with islam, everybody who can read the hadith with a normal brain, will understand within a very short time how stupid it is.. how violent it is.. how badly are seen women and those who don't believe in this mascarade... but hey it's called islamophobia to speak about this like that now !

 

Best example is : you are allowed and should beat your women to teach her who's the boss, and women are agree.. fantastic isn't it ?!? yes because when you beat her.. you shouldn't rape her on the same day, this is forbidden in the sacred text ! I will let you search those texts.. there are too many available and commented or not, really amazing religion of peace !

 

I forgot this jewel of wisdom  : “if a child doesn’t pray when reaching 10 years, you should beat him/her.”

 

==

catholics where not bad at all too.. but there is almost no  Catholics in France anymore

 

traduction : the Little JESUS tells you SHIT !

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Zendo

[GuestHouse]

13 minutes ago, Zendo said:

Yes OPL, but the worst is that theses women you talk about don't think like that.. so endoctrinated, they can't think by themselves and they feel really good, and think there are modest.. and in the muslim women fashion too !

 

 

It's worse than anyone, even you imagine. 

 

It seems that these women you speak of don't only have a problem thinking for themselves, they need you to speak for them.

 

Can you imagine how bad that must be, running around not able to think for yourself and relying on some internet warrior to express any that you might otherwise not know you have?

 

[Zendo]

you know what Guest House... well.. you know already.. so go do that ^^ I'll eat couscous with my tunisian friends, his mother Fatima cooks like a queen and even she was born long time ago and will remains muslim until death.. she understood more things than you will in all your life !

 

If you want to have a real conversation with humain being.. you're the welcome.. but please bring your brain too, it's needed for this kind of things !

Edited August 19, 2016 by Zendo

[GuestHouse]

29 minutes ago, Opl said:

To me, today in France, a woman living in France - maybe born in France -  wearing a burkini on a beach  is  in some way  saying - even claiming - " I don't care what you think - how you feel -  stop me if you can ".

It's not related to religion and has little to do with modesty.

  

 

To me, today in Thailand, a man living in Thailand - maybe born in France, or the UK or the USA - wearing a T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops, going, having a beer when he wants, going to naughty bars if he wants, dating a woman a third his age, if he wants. 

 

Is in some way saying - even claiming - "I don't care what you think - how you feel - stop me if you can"

 

It's not related to religion and has little to do with modesty - he just wants to live his life the way he wants to live his life.

 

But of course if its a Muslim woman choosing to wear a Burqini then the defenders of the free world feel they must speak on her behalf and defend her from making her own choices about her own life - just like all the rest of us demand to do. 

 

 

[farcanell]

24 minutes ago, Opl said:

To me, today in France, a woman living in France - maybe born in France -  wearing a burkini on a beach  is  in some way  saying - even claiming - " I don't care what you think - how you feel -  stop me if you can ".

It's not related to religion and has little to do with modesty.

 

 

  

 

So... Are you suggesting it's something like deliberately pushing the boundaries of legal and civil liberties, to see what they can get away with, in a bench marking type exercise, perhaps as a prelude to some further action.... Like perhaps challenging the anti burka laws ( I'm starting at the least violent scenario that springs to mind, with that suggestion)?

 

more drastic  scenarios may include deliberately inciting anti Muslim violence, to portray Muslims in Europe as victims, requiring UN protection... Spit balling with that... But I would prefer to avoid tin foil hat conspiracies 

[GuestHouse]

3 minutes ago, Zendo said:

you know what Guest House... well.. you know already.. so go do that ^^ I'll eat couscous with my tunisian friends, his mother Fatima cooks like a queen and even she was born long time ago and will remains muslim until death.. she understood more things than you will in all your life !

 

If you want to have a real conversation with humain being.. you're the welcome.. but please bring your brain too, it's needed for this kind of things !

 

I'll gladly bring my brain along to join a real conversation with human beings, thank you for welcoming me. 

 

But please get out of the way and let them speak for themselves.

 

[Zendo]

who is gonna push a bit more then ? GuestHouse you're the welcome, you seems to have the gut to do it.. GO GO we're so close to reach the godwin point now !

 

oups, I think it has been reached long ago already !

Edited August 19, 2016 by Zendo

[farcanell]

The Godwin point... Wow.... I had to look that up.

 

and... Yep... I went there a long way back... which doesn't invalidate the point... As nazism is our benchmark for persecution...., and this topic reeks of persecution.

 

but good one Zendo, you brushed the cobwebs out for that one.

[Zendo]

For GH who ask for it, listen to an intelligent women speaking, if that is what you want,  I think you'll like it :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFN8ahYN1b0

 

[Opl]

GuestHouse , I quote this last part of your post " But of course if its a Muslim woman choosing to wear a Burqini then the defenders of the free world feel they must speak on her behalf and defend her from making her own choices about her own life - just like all the rest of us demand to do.  "

I started my point by " to me" and "today in France" - . and I'm not even trying to speak on behalf of a woman wearing a burkini - I'm telling the impression I have as a person.

That's my feeling - someone else will have another one.    

Many persons, men or women, of different ages - muslim or not - from different part of the world - do not like to expose their body - for different reasons - and manage to do so without wearing a Burkini.

In fact "Burkini" was created recently - Something like 10 years ago - by a muslim woman destinated to muslim women living in muslim countries who otherwise would bath fully dressed   as an improvement in terms of confort -  At that time, I thought it was great for them. I said to myself any woman - chinese - japanese etc.. mostly from asian countries -  who does not want to tan could adopt the burkini as bathing suit.

 

Back to France - 10 years ago, you would hardly find someone bathing in burkini. - Now you'll still find very few,  but in today's context everyone will notice them and  if only worn by muslim women , it turns out to be representative of an attitude  because you can not ignore the context.   

Someone in a previous post talked about " low profile" -  I don't see it as a submission  - it is preservation.