Muslim Frenchwoman 'fined for veil on Cannes beach'

[Zendo]

24 minutes ago, Steely Dan said:

I think Douglas Murray has just nailed it here;- It is far preferable for governments to have impassioned debate about the rights and wrongs of a Burkini than it is having people discuss the real elephant in the room, which is political Islam attempting to assert itself in all its various forms.

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/burkini-ban-political-ruse/?

 

 

 

good point.. but what is political islam exactly.. I wonder how many islams is there out there.. I tought it was ONE and only one GOD for them, and only one way to honnor him, is there severals versions of the coran available ?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

2 minutes ago, Zendo said:

 

good point.. but what is political islam exactly.. I wonder how many islams is there out there.. I tought it was ONE and only one GOD for them, and only one way to honnor him, is there severals versions of the coran available ?

Shia, Whahabism,...a bit like Christian and Protestants...

[GeorgesAbitbol]

7 hours ago, i claudius said:

All i can say is look what tolerance has brought us ,nothing but trouble from many of these immigrants , you dont see stabbings and bombings or constant protesting in Saudi ,do you ?

perhaps they were the ones who got it right SIMPLE !

I bet you would love UEA... There are a lot of things you will not see there

[Zendo]

Just now, GeorgesAbitbol said:

Shia, Whahabism,...a bit like Christian and Protestants...

 

But Protestants are Christians... I think you wanted to say : Catholics and Protestants ? right ?

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, Zendo said:

 

good point.. but what is political islam exactly.. I wonder how many islams is there out there.. I tought it was ONE and only one GOD for them, and only one way to honnor him, is there severals versions of the coran available ?

 

There are many different sects / branches of Islam, including some that reject the Islamist ideology.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by simple1

[Happy Grumpy]

On 8/24/2016 at 3:31 PM, koolkarl said:

If a western woman went to a muslim country, I understand that she must cover her head to

conform to their customs.  

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Never been to the largest Muslim country in the World (Indonesia) I take it.

 

Keep on hating about things you obviously have no idea about. 

[soc]

8 hours ago, Thechook said:

Because if they don't they are branded racist infidels and being branded racist is now apparently worse than being a paedophile in the new politically correct world

l am proud to be an islamaphobe.

Lets look at the real meaning:-

islam, well we know what that is,

phobe, Latin for "to be frightened of"

Well, l'm not actually frightened of them, but l fear what they will do.

So l am an islamaphobe. And proud of it.

Better than some PC fools who are actually islamaphiles

phile- Latin for "love them"

And as for the term "Racist", well l don't consider that l am & it doesn't bother me if some one wants to think that l am----their problem.

l have met many racists, of ALL colours.

[Zendo]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

There are many different sects / branches of Islam, including some that reject Islamist violence.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

 

 

Good, so what Sect / branch is at work in France name it, because over there muslims have no idea, they just call it Islam and go to the nearest mosquee to get in touch with imam, who mot of the time don't speak French.

 

To be more clear I want to say that traditionnal islam.. soft one if you want is slowly replaced by harder one.. pushing more and more to another level, using all kinds of techniques to reach their goal.. you can name them, it's "the islamic brothers". But in the mosquees you will never been shown wich part they are from.. it's just Islam.

 

"Some reject Islamist Violence" => make me laugh.. have you read the coran ? difficult to be FOR this book and being Against Violence, it utterly nonsense (many like to say this.. so I use it too !)

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Zendo said:

 

Good, so what Sect / branch is at work in France name it, because over there muslims have no idea, they just call it Islam and go to the nearest mosquee to get in touch with imam, who mot of the time don't speak French.

 

To be more clear I want to say that traditionnal islam.. soft one if you want is slowly replaced by harder one.. pushing more and more to another level, using all kinds of techniques to reach their goal.. you can name them, it's "the islamic brothers". But in the mosquees you will never been shown wich part they are from.. it's just Islam.

 

"Some reject Islamist Violence" => make me laugh.. have you read the coran ? difficult to be FOR this book and being Against Violence, it utterly nonsense (many like to say this.. so I use it too !)

 

"Some reject Islamist Violence" => make me laugh". Do your research so you minimise ill-informed posts.

 

I assume you're aware your government has deported more than 40 Imams for supporting Islamist messaging so one assumes the French government is generally aware of ideologies preached at different mosques.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/europe-terror-threat-france-deports-40-imams-preaching-hatred-interior-minister-says-1987822

 

 

 

[lust]

I have to wear a speedo to swim in my pool condo. Shorts are not allowed. So this chick can embrace the culture or pack her bags.

[Zendo]

Yes simple1, I know about that.. the question is why theses imams were authorized to preach ? because Quatari and Saudians mostly payed for that and you can't refuse a brand new Ferrari and some holidays on a Yatch when your an influent politic figure.

 

I would like to say that yes islam of peace exist.. but no religion is made out of peace.. Islam may be the worst in this case.. and please answer me : did you read the Coran ? did you felt that inner peace coming from this kind of "Sacred texts"  while reading it... if you understand what you read, you'll be more in a state of fear, like a black cloud coming around you ^^ try it !

 

 

[Zendo]

2 minutes ago, lust said:

I have to wear a speedo to swim in my pool condo. Shorts are not allowed. So this chick can embrace the culture or pack her bags.

 

This is also the rules in all swimming pools in France, only Real Swimsuits are allowed, no surfers pants, no shorts.. no hat.. etc, just Swim Suits made for that !

 

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, Zendo said:

Yes simple1, I know about that.. the question is why theses imams were authorized to preach ? because Quatari and Saudians mostly payed for that and you can't refuse a brand new Ferrari and some holidays on a Yatch when your an influent politic figure.

 

I would like to say that yes islam of peace exist.. but no religion is made out of peace.. Islam may be the worst in this case.. and please answer me : did you read the Coran ? did you felt that inner peace coming from this kind of "Sacred texts"  while reading it... if you understand what you read, you'll be more in a state of fear, like a black cloud coming around you ^^ try it !

 

 

 

I have read parts of the Koran, but I have to say I have no affinity to any Abrahamic religion. Yes I know there are 109 'Sword' verses. However, as you know there are many interpretations, but I conclude Islam at it's core is surrender to God which philosophically is one way to acheive Inner Peace. I like the following definition.

 

Spirituality has been defined in Dehkhuda Dictionary as such: real, true, genuine, essential, absolute and esoteric. It is a meaning which is perceived by the heart (my personal definition is Silence) only and the tongue has no knowledge or understanding of it.

 

The discipline I prefer is based upon Vedanta.

[fasteddie]

1 hour ago, Zendo said:

 

Good, so what Sect / branch is at work in France name it, because over there muslims have no idea, they just call it Islam and go to the nearest mosquee to get in touch with imam, who mot of the time don't speak French.

 

To be more clear I want to say that traditionnal islam.. soft one if you want is slowly replaced by harder one.. pushing more and more to another level, using all kinds of techniques to reach their goal.. you can name them, it's "the islamic brothers". But in the mosquees you will never been shown wich part they are from.. it's just Islam.

 

"Some reject Islamist Violence" => make me laugh.. have you read the coran ? difficult to be FOR this book and being Against Violence, it utterly nonsense (many like to say this.. so I use it too !)

Have you read the bible, be difficult to be FOR this book and Against Violence.

[koolkarl]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Never been to the largest Muslim country in the World (Indonesia) I take it.

 

Keep on hating about things you obviously have no idea about. 

 If you could understand what I wrote, then you would not write a vicious remark. A number of western countries

today, are changing their customs to accommodate muslims whereas a muslim country would never accommodate western culture. I just

read today that Canada wants to change the uniform of the RCMP to accomodate muslims. Next will be the guard's uniforms at Buckingham Palace.

No wonder you are grumpy.

[Zendo]

1 hour ago, fasteddie said:

Have you read the bible, be difficult to be FOR this book and Against Violence.

 100% agree.. but which bible are you talking about ? the new or the old testament ?? they did improve a lot between theses 2 versions !! lol

Also, reading the bible is not so boring as it contains a lot of "PARENTAL ADVISORY EXPLICIT CONTENT"

 

Anyway.. If anybody like to read this kind of books.. I recommend the interresting Gospel of Thomas, A Parable Of A Mustard Seed

 

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

I have read parts of the Koran, but I have to say I have no affinity to any Abrahamic religion. Yes I know there are 109 'Sword' verses. However, as you know there are many interpretations, but I conclude Islam at it's core is surrender to God which philosophically is one way to acheive Inner Peace. I like the following definition.

 

Spirituality has been defined in Dehkhuda Dictionary as such: real, true, genuine, essential, absolute and esoteric. It is a meaning which is perceived by the heart (my personal definition is Silence) only and the tongue has no knowledge or understanding of it.

 

The discipline I prefer is based upon Vedanta.

 

Good for you, I also was very interrested in Vedanta and the Upanishad, when I used to go to India... My preference now are for Haikus :

 

And while talking about inner peace, where words are not spelled yet,

 

what is the sound of one hand clapping ?

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Zendo

[sambum]

23 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Name 'em.

 

"In the southern communities of Iraq, especially in Najaf and Karbala, hijab is compulsory."

 

And that was just a quick search - I do not intend spending much  more time on this except to say that "when in Rome etc etc etc", and

if I go to enter a temple in Thailand where it is compulsory to remove your shoes - I remove them - no problem.

 

If a Muslim lady in France goes to  a beach where it is compulsory to not wear a veil,burka - call it what you will and she deliberately wears one - she should understand the consequences , pay the fine and get on with her life having learned a lesson in her (presumably) adopted country. If she was born there, then she should have known better!

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by sambum

[fasteddie]

4 hours ago, sambum said:

 

"In the southern communities of Iraq, especially in Najaf and Karbala, hijab is compulsory."

 

And that was just a quick search - I do not intend spending much  more time on this except to say that "when in Rome etc etc etc", and

if I go to enter a temple in Thailand where it is compulsory to remove your shoes - I remove them - no problem.

 

If a Muslim lady in France goes to  a beach where it is compulsory to not wear a veil,burka - call it what you will and she deliberately wears one - she should understand the consequences , pay the fine and get on with her life having learned a lesson in her (presumably) adopted country. If she was born there, then she should have known better!

 

 

Oh please, is that the best you can do? That is not the law of the land, I don't doubt out in the sticks in many Muslim countries girls have to wear the hijab, that's cultural and illegal but impossible to enforce. I'll give you a hand, Gaza and Saudi Arabia it's the law of the land but in the vast majority of Muslim countries it is not compulsory, in fact in many countries it's illegal in places.

[tmd5855]

On 24/08/2016 at 3:59 PM, bannork said:

But I thought the West prided itself on being liberal with independent thinking,, free style as they say.

Or do you want us to be on the same intolerant level as the Saudis?

Only point trying to make is "When in Rome do as romans do"

[Zendo]

Quote

Only point trying to make is "When in Rome do as romans do"

 

yeah.. because the Romans where not "fuckin' around"...  Or maybe people who did show off in any way wanted to see tigers and lions for REAL !

[sambum]

11 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Oh please, is that the best you can do? That is not the law of the land, I don't doubt out in the sticks in many Muslim countries girls have to wear the hijab, that's cultural and illegal but impossible to enforce. I'll give you a hand, Gaza and Saudi Arabia it's the law of the land but in the vast majority of Muslim countries it is not compulsory, in fact in many countries it's illegal in places.

 

I've already said I'm not prepared to do any more digging around just to prove my point or disprove yours. The point is, that if it is the law or the custom of the land you are in, you should respect that, and this French Muslim woman obviously didn't.

And by the way "in fact in many countries it's illegal in places." your quote - not mine, so basically you are agreeing with me!

[fasteddie]

24 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

I've already said I'm not prepared to do any more digging around just to prove my point or disprove yours. The point is, that if it is the law or the custom of the land you are in, you should respect that, and this French Muslim woman obviously didn't.

And by the way "in fact in many countries it's illegal in places." your quote - not mine, so basically you are agreeing with me!

No! what I'm saying is, in many Muslim countries it's illegal to wear the veil in certain places.

[sambum]

56 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

No! what I'm saying is, in many Muslim countries it's illegal to wear the veil in certain places.

 

Enough already! What colour is black today? The point is that the French Muslim woman chose to wear an article of clothing on a beach that was ILLEGAL - OK! And one of your original comments implies that breaking the law is to be encouraged and even admired:-  "Of course and contempt for it hopefully."

 

"In many Muslim countries it is illegal to wear the veil in certain places" so what would the punishment have been in one of those places if the French woman had "shown contempt for the law" and chosen to wear a veil? I think the 11 euro fine (?) would have been trivial in comparison!

 

Going by your comments, you are either a Muslim, or a Muslim sympathiser, and in certain places that might almost be classed as "illegal", but I believe you are entitled to your opinion, the same as anyone else.  However, you appear to be changing your stance more often than Muhammad Ali, and our dialogue is pointless if you keep changing the goalposts.

Edited August 26, 2016 by sambum
Amended text

[fasteddie]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

 

Enough already! What colour is black today? The point is that the French Muslim woman chose to wear an article of clothing on a beach that was ILLEGAL - OK! And one of your original comments implies that breaking the law is to be encouraged and even admired:-  "Of course and contempt for it hopefully."

 

"In many Muslim countries it is illegal to wear the veil in certain places" so what would the punishment have been in one of those places if the French woman had "shown contempt for the law" and chosen to wear a veil? I think the 11 euro fine (?) would have been trivial in comparison!

 

Going by your comments, you are either a Muslim, or a Muslim sympathiser, and in certain places that might almost be classed as "illegal", but I believe you are entitled to your opinion, the same as anyone else.  However, you appear to be changing your stance more often than Muhammad Ali, and our dialogue is pointless if you keep changing the goalposts.

Where is it illegal to be a Muslim sympathiser? and where am I changing my stance?

[sambum]

1 hour ago, fasteddie said:

Where is it illegal to be a Muslim sympathiser? and where am I changing my stance?

 

I didn't say it WAS illegal anywhere if you read my post properly - I said "almost".

 

"name some of these countries that insist western women have to cover their heads then, my guess is you can't name three, I can only think of one. "

 

 "I'll give you a hand, Gaza and Saudi Arabia it's the law of the land"  (That's 2) And I've given you another - anyway - who's counting?

 

 The point of the thread (As far as I can see) is about whether  it was wrong for the French Muslim lady  to be fined for wearing a veil on a beach where it was banned. You obviously thought that it was, and I've answered your questions, how about you answering mine? What do you think would happen if the Muslim lady was in a Muslim country where the veil was banned and she insisted on wearing it? Do you think that Muslims should be encouraged to break the laws of the country they are in if that law is in conflict with their religion?

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by sambum

[Bob9]

Get a room !!

[JDGRUEN]

On 8/24/2016 at 6:01 PM, GeorgesAbitbol said:

I hope asian countries will not follow the same idea, otherwise soon we will have to wear at least once a safron dress and shave our head, maybe even stop having all those western food which is a domination over the asian food and their way of life.... 

 

Hijab is NOT prohibited in France, except in schools and other public offices for workers. the only ban is agains Burqa and Nikab which cover the whole face.

In fact some girls with hijab are quite cute and it is even becoming a fashion item

 

 

'Cute' ... Wow Mindless Liberals will tolerate anything as nothing matters to them.  Immigrants need to assimilate to the laws and customs of the land that they enter.  

[stevenl]

The French supreme court has declared the bourkini legal. I guess they'll have to return the fines issued.

[fasteddie]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

 

I didn't say it WAS illegal anywhere if you read my post properly - I said "almost".

 

"name some of these countries that insist western women have to cover their heads then, my guess is you can't name three, I can only think of one. "

 

 "I'll give you a hand, Gaza and Saudi Arabia it's the law of the land"  (That's 2) And I've given you another - anyway - who's counting?

 

 The point of the thread (As far as I can see) is about whether  it was wrong for the French Muslim lady  to be fined for wearing a veil on a beach where it was banned. You obviously thought that it was, and I've answered your questions, how about you answering mine? What do you think would happen if the Muslim lady was in a Muslim country where the veil was banned and she insisted on wearing it? Do you think that Muslims should be encouraged to break the laws of the country they are in if that law is in conflict with their religion?

 

Well it's been overturned by a higher court now, she will be getting her fine back so obviously the high court thought it was an unjust and stupid law so break it and show it up for it's ridiculousness.

[fasteddie]

2 hours ago, JDGRUEN said:

'Cute' ... Wow Mindless Liberals will tolerate anything as nothing matters to them.  Immigrants need to assimilate to the laws and customs of the land that they enter.  

Yeah cute, you really need to get out more. My guess is you've never been to a Muslim country, you ought to give it a try they are extremely hospitable people and some of the girls are gorgeous and very friendly, if you know what I mean. I suggest Morocco, go to paradise beach, Tagazhout, north of Agadir on any Sunday and feast your eyes, they don't wear bikinis just string LOL