Paris restaurant 'refuses to serve Muslim women'

[ddavidovsky]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The world is going insane - people are forgetting their humanity...  

 

When normal people respond in these ways the Terrorists are already winning.... 

 

Except that the brotherhood of man is a myth and you could just as easily say that the world is going sane, finally.

 

People are programmed to compete. If they are not differentiated enough, then they will invent differences for the purpose of competition. Swift lampooned this ages ago with his Bigendians and Littlendians, and it happens just as much with religion as with politics. Social division is just beneath the skin of everyone if they are threatened enough. Human nature doesn't change, while the world changes too quickly.

 

The trick is to limit change to a rate at which its deleterious effects can be adequately managed, but policians have never understand that. What's happening now is just a readjustment of what was so long out of whack.

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Except that the brotherhood of man is a myth and you could just as easily say that the world is going sane, finally.

 

People are programmed to compete. If they are not differentiated enough, then they will invent differences for the purpose of competition. Swift lampooned this ages ago with his Bigendians and Littlendians, and it happens just as much with religion as with politics. Social division is just beneath the skin of everyone if they are threatened enough. Human nature doesn't change, while the world changes too quickly.

 

The trick is to limit change to a rate at which its deleterious effects can be adequately managed, but policians have never understand that. What's happening now is just a readjustment of what was so long out of whack.

 

Thanks for a very compelling and thought-provoking post. 

 

You definitely move the forum up a couple notches when you contribute.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The anger is understandable and the target is on point...however, shout have taken a more subtle approach...like explaining that he couldn't guarantee that all his food was halal and therefore wouldn't want to cause these women to offend Allah by having them consume his cooking.

[ClutchClark]

The customers will take their business elsewhere and be happy to dine at a location they feel welcome.

 

The restaurant owner will have patrons that he wants or maybe his tables will be empty.

 

It is the fine line between consumerism and personal freedom. 

 

And the best part is nobody dies doing it the french way.

[Chicog]

35 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

The anger is understandable and the target is on point...however, shout have taken a more subtle approach...like explaining that he couldn't guarantee that all his food was halal and therefore wouldn't want to cause these women to offend Allah by having them consume his cooking.

 

I'm willing to bet his food wasn't halal. And the fact that they were still willing to eat it tells me that they weren't even devout muslims.

So I'm guessing he's just another dimwitted racist.

 

 

[Opl]

in Aubervilliers (France - with very large muslim community of different countries ) / They just wanted to have drinks on the terrace. They had to fight to get this simple right to sit at a cafe table.

 

From french press - Google translation) ( http://www.20minutes.fr/paris/1775579-20160131-aubervilliers-femmes-partent-conquete-cafes

http://www.liberation.fr/france/2016/05/06/a-aubervilliers-les-femmes-se-font-de-la-place-au-comptoir_1451052)

 

" In early April, they were a fortnight together in a Portuguese brasserie, Café Sport. "Not bad," said one. "Will test the single" replies his neighbor. "I live next door, I will come again, launching another, and in a miniskirt." They laugh. Perhaps the coffee he will get the label "Women here feel at home as" a plate issued by the group and already displayed at the entrance of eight albertivillariens cafés. In April 2011, a few friends, tired of seeing the café terraces occupied almost exclusively by men and to feel intrusive, launched the idea of a regular appointment of women to these terraces. They have talked to other friends who have found nice idea and answered herein. Initially they were only a dozen, often unwelcome, five years after the group has over 200 members with very different origins and ages, and has even established a certified coffee system where women feel good (list below).
Thus, on Tuesday night, every 15 days, between 19h and 21h, the collective "The Ladies" invests coffee Aubervilliers. They take a drink, talk (a lot !!) and decide later ... Perhaps you've already seen: they wear scarves to peas of different colors (to display their taste for diversity) in gratitude.

This bimonthly appointment is more than just a drink with friends, true social action collective "Place for Women" the advocates diversity in cafes Aubervilliers but also in public space. Thanks to their actions, change the looks, behavior change and social climate is easing. Obviously not everything is perfect and this peaceful and festive fight is not always seen favorably by some men but it is now easier for them to get together with friends in a cafe.
Proof that their actions are considered, the intersection opposite the bar "Le Roi du Café" (first one that allowed the class) was renamed "Place of Women" by the Mayor of Aubervilliers, a symbol.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Opl

[JHolmesJr]

5 hours ago, rijit said:

What absolute nonsense, what is 'hard to understand' is how somebody, like yourself with such obviously limited inteligence has the abilty to write.

 

Who cares what you think about my intelligence levels….just because my views do not coincide with yours doesn't make you right.

Edited August 29, 2016 by JHolmesJr
Profane acronym removed.

[Sphere]

Couldn't he have just just done the Michelin star equivalent of a McJob on their order?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Sphere

[Hawk]

2 hours ago, Caps said:

I thought restaurants and bars etc had the right not to serve anyone they choose.  He said he doesn't want them in his place.  Is that not his choice? 

People might call it racist but at the end of the day if the person who owns the business doest want you there then tough.

Or are we going to start forcing people to take business just because it suits a certain group

 

 

Hotels, bars, restaurants, nightclubs etc have the right to refuse service to anybody, afterall these places are private property and as such the law protects them. At the end of the day these women can fuss and fart but the owner was perfectly within in his right to refuse service and ask them to leave, he didn't even need to give a reason.

[metisdead]

Posts with off topic generalizations about some events in Bangkok have been removed as well as a post commenting on moderation. 

[JHolmesJr]

Humanity is made up of tribes and every tribe has its own way of dressing, behaving and doing things….and that is just fine within the territory of the tribe. When you visit another tribe, you need to be situationally aware, sensitive to your surroundings and the prevalent climate.

 

I eat in soi marine and on sukhumvit soi 3 regularly and never had a problem…in fact I enjoy the scene.

 

But had i been the subject of an islamic terrorist attack, or lost a friend or family member to it, perhaps my views might change. I might even stop going there.

 

Immigrants need to learn how to blend in, not stand out….look at what the chinese have done after buying up houses on peaceful suburban areas of vancouver…turned them into garish examples of their own architecture…thereby pissing off locals who've lived there for decades. Or arabs who insist on swimming with full dress in hotel swimming pools and such….making everyone else uncomfortable….why is it so hard to follow the normal procedure….alternatively, it would be just fine if muzzlims toddle off to a beach on the red sea, to frolic arabian style.

 

Every business is within its rights to serve who they please….there is a bar in pattaya that has a sign outside that they won't serve arabs because they respect their religion and the fact that alcohol is banned in their culture….a bit sarcastic but still thats their prerogative.

 

The french guy was well within his right to tell the muzzlim women he did not want to serve them given the inflamed state of relations in france/europe. I think we'll see a lot more of these situations.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by JHolmesJr

[Shawn0000]

5 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Muzzlims are going to end up shunned in larger numbers if their nonsense doesnt stop....live in europe act european....live in arabia act arab....how hard is that to understand?

 

And the 100,000 ethnic French Muslims, can they "act European" in their own way without fear of persecution from the likes of you, or is it only those who act as you deem European to be that are safe?

[JHolmesJr]

Acting european does not mean looking european or even being european. Please decipher the nuances before twisting my words.

Edited August 29, 2016 by JHolmesJr

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

It may not be compulsory for you in the branch of Islam that you subscribe to, but other Muslims believe it to be. Much as some Jews believe they must wear headgear and medieval garb and others don't. And the same goes for other religions. And it's not your business or your place to dictate otherwise.

I don't subscribe to any branch of Islam, and it's not in the Koran to wear other than modest dress, so it's not a requirement to wear a hijab, which is actually cultural and not Islamic dress.

Some Muslims also believe it's an obligation to stone adultererous women, but I doubt you subscribe to that being allowed in France.

[thaihome]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't subscribe to any branch of Islam, and it's not in the Koran to wear other than modest dress, so it's not a requirement to wear a hijab, which is actually cultural and not Islamic dress.

Some Muslims also believe it's an obligation to stone adultererous women, but I doubt you subscribe to that being allowed in France.

 

So you find a moral equivalency between how a woman wishes to dress and murder?

TH 

[alocacoc]

The mood turned against muslims in Europe. This is no surprise. Read local news of German, Swedish, France..... newspapers and you see how they act. Robbery, molester, raping childrens and elders, beating innocents and so on. Every single day. Muslims do nothing to try to improve their image. It is what it is.

 

It's up to the restaurant who it will accept or not.

Edited August 29, 2016 by alocacoc

[stander]

The distance between Muslims and Europeans is getting larger and larger and the pretension of integrating dissipates, as the number grows larger. Islam does not compromise and it will destroy Europe.

[Calach]

Well when politicians constantly entertain and exploit mass' lower instincts over this attire, intellectualizing and legitimating defiance in the name identity, secularism, gender equality or else (you have the choice), you can't be surprised that the plebs sometimes gets out of control on the matter. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Calach

[hansnl]

6 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Yet most terrorism is caused by white right wing groups, but I guess they are not sitting on oil  

Wow.

That's a real new view on terrorism.

Those white right wing groups are muslim, then?

They must be, seen the fact that over 80% of terrorists are at least inclined to the islam.

But feel free to keep your eyes closed for reality.

Edited August 29, 2016 by hansnl

[Jingthing]

There is no excuse whatsoever for the caddish, bigoted, uncivilized behavior of this restaurant owner.

It's truly sad to hear anyone defending him.

Shame! 

[mesterm]

I'm anti-Islam, but this was too much. It actually helps garner sympathy for that asinine religion.

[Chicog]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

 

 

Hotels, bars, restaurants, nightclubs etc have the right to refuse service to anybody, afterall these places are private property and as such the law protects them. At the end of the day these women can fuss and fart but the owner was perfectly within in his right to refuse service and ask them to leave, he didn't even need to give a reason.

 

They have to right to refuse service if, for example, a patron is drunk or abusive.

I don't think French (or for that matter, EU) anti-discrimination laws prevent them serving someone based on their religion, any more than they can refuse based on their age, sex, or race.

 

So I would think he is *not* perfectly within his right, which is why he is now being investigated.

[Chicog]

2 minutes ago, mesterm said:

I'm anti-Islam, but this was too much. It actually helps garner sympathy for that asinine religion.

 

In fairness, they're all asinine.

 

 

[hansnl]

6 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Yet most terrorism is caused by white right wing groups, but I guess they are not sitting on oil  

Wow.

That's a real new view on terrorism.

Those white right wing groups are muslim, then?

[Shawn0000]

50 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Acting european does not mean looking european or even being european. Please decipher the nuances before twisting my words.

 

Wow, don't you even get what Ethnic French Muslim means?  They are European people who happen to be Muslims, whatever they do is a European act, no matter how foreign or non European you may deem their actions to be, they are not they are a part of Europe.

[mesterm]

4 minutes ago, Chicog said:

In fairness, they're all asinine.

 

True. Some more than others in contemporary practice

[Shawn0000]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

 

 

Hotels, bars, restaurants, nightclubs etc have the right to refuse service to anybody, afterall these places are private property and as such the law protects them. At the end of the day these women can fuss and fart but the owner was perfectly within in his right to refuse service and ask them to leave, he didn't even need to give a reason.

 

I don't know French law but I expect it is similar to UK law where it is legal to refuse service provided the refusal is not on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief.

[Chicog]

52 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Acting european does not mean looking european or even being european. Please decipher the nuances before twisting my words.

No-one is twisting your words.

I live in what you ignorantly call "Arabia" and I do not "act like Arabs". I eat bacon. I drink alcohol. I dress in western garb. I do all of these in places in which Muslims are permitted. They can choose if they want to go or not.

BUT they respect my wishes and I respect theirs. In Ramadhan, my colleagues insist that I do not fast during the day, as they know I am not eating and drinking after dark. They don't expect me to do so. I'm not a Muslim.

 

BUT I wouldn't break their laws any more than I would break French ones.

 

If I were near that man when he was spouting his nonsense, I'd summon my best, although limited, French and call him the racist ar$ehole that he is.

 

 

 

 

[Shawn0000]

6 minutes ago, mesterm said:

 

True. Some more than others in contemporary practice

 

It is asinine to generalize the practices of a religion as diverse as Islam on the actions of a minority. 

[Chicog]

6 minutes ago, mesterm said:

 

True. Some more than others in contemporary practice

 

Bizarrely, when I first came to the Middle East, on one of the many forms I had to fill out, they asked for Religion and I put ''none''. I was told that they simply wouldn't understand that, and to stick down "Christian" to avoid any complications (which I did).

 

None of the Muslims I work with get the atheist thing. They can understand Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., but they simply cannot get their head around "atheist".

 

Doesn't bother them, doesn't affect the way they treat me, they just don't understand it.