Clinton, Trump decry latest police shootings of black men

[ClutchClark]

6 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Based on a population base of only 300 million Americans in the USA, the percent who are professional athletes constitutes .00005% That's of all ethnicity and level of education.  

 

So the example in the post is pathetically irrelevant, immaterial, unrealistic. 

 

Fascinating.

 

Did you know there are 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers on active duty in 2016 and there are maybe 5 police shootings of blacks that are considered unjustified but lets call it 10. 

 

Guess what that amounts to using 10?  That is 0.0000125

 

This is only 25% of the value you have already described as "pathetically, irrelevant, immaterial and unrealistic".

 

In other words you are making much ado about nothing.

[ClutchClark]

7 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Based on a population base of only 300 million Americans in the USA, the percent who are professional athletes constitutes .00005% That's of all ethnicity and level of education.  

 

So the example in the post is pathetically irrelevant, immaterial, unrealistic. 

 

Fascinating.

 

Did you know there are 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers on active duty in 2016 and there are maybe 5 police shootings of blacks that are considered unjustified but lets call it 10. 

 

Guess what that amounts to using 10?  That is 0.0000125

 

This is only 25% of the value you have already described as "pathetically, irrelevant, immaterial and unrealistic".

 

In other words you are making much ado about nothing.

 

The fact is the numbers prove that there is not a systemic issue of racism within the professional law enforcement community. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Publicus]

14 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Fascinating.

 

Did you know there are 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers on active duty in 2016 and there are maybe 5 police shootings of blacks that are considered unjustified but lets call it 10. 

 

Guess what that amounts to using 10?  That is 0.0000125

 

This is only 25% of the value you have already described as "pathetically, irrelevant, immaterial and unrealistic".

 

In other words you are making much ado about nothing.

 

The fact is the numbers prove that there is not a systemic issue of racism within the professional law enforcement community. 

 

The standard in the post to establish racism in US police or policing is narrow and exclusive -- in the extreme. It comes up short because it is entirely statistical while ignoring all other factors.

 

The standard presented in the post excludes factors that include world view, attitudes, the negative and self-reinforcing dynamic in the society of prejudice and discrimination, history of policing and of police-black community relations, policing and law enforcement as an institution of the society and, indeed, the history of the institutions of society across the board in respect of race and racialism; also inter alia posts by Republicans and other rightwhingers to the thread and to other threads on police and black community relations.

 

Here is where we still are in the modern role of police in relation to so many black Americans...

 

 Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham, Alabama. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson)

 

 

When it's not the noose it's attack dogs; when it's not attack dogs it's the standard issue police handgun or worse.

 

What exactly is this calm and courageous black man doing that initiates the aggressive and violent police response. It could look as if the slave patrol deputies of the Old Confederacy had thought they'd found themselves an escaped slave or some such. This is unfortunately at the core of police-black community relations and it has been so for decades, if not centuries. The photo documents a racial social control rather than law enforcement, although the police enforcing racial laws is nothing new; it is in fact normal, routine, endemic.

 

The professional athlete Kap who inserted himself into the controversy over the national police crime wave against black Americans has the right to his world view. That he expressed his view on the job might not have been the best approach or tact. However, his job is a special one in society to include being a high profile figure who is well paid in a highly popular profession, i.e., sports. He does us all a civic and a national service.

 

Republicans and others on the right get worked up when an American exercises his/her Constitutional right to pass on the pledge of allegiance to the flag, or if an American declines to stand during the national anthem. It is the person's right to make these choices. It is not as if the person is allowed or disallowed to self-decide in the matters. USA on the whole is rarely frozen in time, however, Republicans and the rightwing remain frozen in America's original sin of racialism...and they remain forever fixed in it. Irredeemably so.

 

Attacking the QB Kap as being an ungrateful, wealthy and accomplished -- respected -- black American who is out of line and out of his place is wrong. And the nature of the criticisms in the post strongly suggest a fundamentally racial attitude and belief system. So I'm afraid it also could be said the post failed in the clutch.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Publicus
Spacing corrections and text revision.

[Ulysses G.]

On 9/24/2016 at 6:08 AM, ClutchClark said:

 

In other words you are making much ado about nothing.

 

The fact is the numbers prove that there is not a systemic issue of racism within the professional law enforcement community. 

 

Indeed they do. 

[ClutchClark]

12 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

The standard in the post to establish racism in US police or policing is narrow and exclusive -- in the extreme. It comes up short because it is entirely statistical while ignoring all other factors.

 

The standard presented in the post excludes factors that include world view, attitudes, the negative and self-reinforcing dynamic in the society of prejudice and discrimination, history of policing and of police-black community relations, policing and law enforcement as an institution of the society and, indeed, the history of the institutions of society across the board in respect of race and racialism; also inter alia posts by Republicans and other rightwhingers to the thread and to other threads on police and black community relations.

 

Here is where we still are in the modern role of police in relation to so many black Americans...

 

 Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham, Alabama. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson)

 

 

When it's not the noose it's attack dogs; when it's not attack dogs it's the standard issue police handgun or worse.

 

What exactly is this calm and courageous black man doing that initiates the aggressive and violent police response. It could look as if the slave patrol deputies of the Old Confederacy had thought they'd found themselves an escaped slave or some such. This is unfortunately at the core of police-black community relations and it has been so for decades, if not centuries. The photo documents a racial social control rather than law enforcement, although the police enforcing racial laws is nothing new; it is in fact normal, routine, endemic.

 

The professional athlete Kap who inserted himself into the controversy over the national police crime wave against black Americans has the right to his world view. That he expressed his view on the job might not have been the best approach or tact. However, his job is a special one in society to include being a high profile figure who is well paid in a highly popular profession, i.e., sports. He does us all a civic and a national service.

 

Republicans and others on the right get worked up when an American exercises his/her Constitutional right to pass on the pledge of allegiance to the flag, or if an American declines to stand during the national anthem. It is the person's right to make these choices. It is not as if the person is allowed or disallowed to self-decide in the matters. USA on the whole is rarely frozen in time, however, Republicans and the rightwing remain frozen in America's original sin of racialism...and they remain forever fixed in it. Irredeemably so.

 

Attacking the QB Kap as being an ungrateful, wealthy and accomplished -- respected -- black American who is out of line and out of his place is wrong. And the nature of the criticisms in the post strongly suggest a fundamentally racial attitude and belief system. So I'm afraid it also could be said the post failed in the clutch.

 

You have to go back to 1963 to find a supporting incident? 

 

That tells most evryone that the landscape has changed significantly in 60 years and this current re-hashing is sadly out of place. 

 

BTW, I consider Kap out of line not because he is black as you attempt to suggest but rather out of line because he is paid to entertain. Most viewers are interested in his physical performance and not what he thinks. no different than the displeasure I have when some athlete prays and forces us to sit through his religious experience. 

 

Those are personal practices and beliefs and have no place at the gsme or on the field. 

 

So sorry you will need to misquote me on something new so you can resort to your petty name-calling. 

[ClutchClark]

12 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

The standard in the post to establish racism in US police or policing is narrow and exclusive -- in the extreme. It comes up short because it is entirely statistical while ignoring all other factors.

 

The standard presented in the post excludes factors that include world view, attitudes, the negative and self-reinforcing dynamic in the society of prejudice and discrimination, history of policing and of police-black community relations, policing and law enforcement as an institution of the society and, indeed, the history of the institutions of society across the board in respect of race and racialism; also inter alia posts by Republicans and other rightwhingers to the thread and to other threads on police and black community relations.

 

Here is where we still are in the modern role of police in relation to so many black Americans...

 

 Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham, Alabama. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson)

 

 

When it's not the noose it's attack dogs; when it's not attack dogs it's the standard issue police handgun or worse.

 

What exactly is this calm and courageous black man doing that initiates the aggressive and violent police response. It could look as if the slave patrol deputies of the Old Confederacy had thought they'd found themselves an escaped slave or some such. This is unfortunately at the core of police-black community relations and it has been so for decades, if not centuries. The photo documents a racial social control rather than law enforcement, although the police enforcing racial laws is nothing new; it is in fact normal, routine, endemic.

 

The professional athlete Kap who inserted himself into the controversy over the national police crime wave against black Americans has the right to his world view. That he expressed his view on the job might not have been the best approach or tact. However, his job is a special one in society to include being a high profile figure who is well paid in a highly popular profession, i.e., sports. He does us all a civic and a national service.

 

Republicans and others on the right get worked up when an American exercises his/her Constitutional right to pass on the pledge of allegiance to the flag, or if an American declines to stand during the national anthem. It is the person's right to make these choices. It is not as if the person is allowed or disallowed to self-decide in the matters. USA on the whole is rarely frozen in time, however, Republicans and the rightwing remain frozen in America's original sin of racialism...and they remain forever fixed in it. Irredeemably so.

 

Attacking the QB Kap as being an ungrateful, wealthy and accomplished -- respected -- black American who is out of line and out of his place is wrong. And the nature of the criticisms in the post strongly suggest a fundamentally racial attitude and belief system. So I'm afraid it also could be said the post failed in the clutch.

 

This is quite typical of you. 

 

You introduce statistics to make your point and when I flip it around on you then you discredit and dismiss the use of statistics.

 

Too funny.

[Publicus]

56 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

You have to go back to 1963 to find a supporting incident? 

 

That tells most evryone that the landscape has changed significantly in 60 years and this current re-hashing is sadly out of place. 

 

BTW, I consider Kap out of line not because he is black as you attempt to suggest but rather out of line because he is paid to entertain. Most viewers are interested in his physical performance and not what he thinks. no different than the displeasure I have when some athlete prays and forces us to sit through his religious experience. 

 

Those are personal practices and beliefs and have no place at the gsme or on the field. 

 

So sorry you will need to misquote me on something new so you can resort to your petty name-calling. 

 

You have to go back to 1963 to find a supporting incident? 

 

I don't have to do anything because citing horrendous events of 1963 is a reference point in the police continuum against black Americans as they try to assert their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, each pledge of which had excluded them from the outset. Trying to catch up and make it reality is very tuff when the deputies of the slave patrol, er, the police, are against you in your own community throughout the country.

 

The rest of the post is the standard and typical right wing whining and whinging. Denying you went after the QB on the basis of race in prior posts is at the core of it.

 

Carry on.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Publicus
Close spacing.

[ClutchClark]

14 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

You have to go back to 1963 to find 

 

The rest of the post is the standard and typical right wing whining and whinging. Denying you went after the QB on the basis of race in prior posts is at the core of it.

 

Carry on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing.

 

I provide my opinion and in order for you to create an argument you actually ignore my opinion and tell me what you want me to have said simply so you can spread your unique form of TVF hate. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Publicus]

36 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This is quite typical of you. 

 

You introduce statistics to make your point and when I flip it around on you then you discredit and dismiss the use of statistics.

 

Too funny.

 

Here is what I said in my reply post concerning your single statistic....

 

The standard in the post to establish racism in US police or policing is narrow and exclusive -- in the extreme. It comes up short because it is entirely statistical while ignoring all other factors.

 

I didn't even speak to the accuracy of your one single statistic, which may well be on the mark but I wasn't going to research it and you provided no source, link, supporting reference point.

 

I said your reliance on a single obscure statistic, entirely and completely, to attempt to refute a certain police racism in the United States came up short. It in fact was a miserable failure. Not much for you to clutch in this.

 

Given the consistent misreading of my posts, kindly visit here thx: http://www.readingrockets.org/helping/target/comprehension

 

Sort of turn over a new leaf kind of thingy.

[Linzz]

On 9/23/2016 at 11:23 PM, PTC said:

 

Thank you for posting a video and alleging that it represents an organization because you don't know any better option. You could have said, here is a VDO of some black people chanting this ... and that would be fine but no, you and a number of other fellow travelers use insinuation and innuendo to imply something that fits your point of view irrespective of the truth. Like I said to the other Deplorable, prove that BLM initiated that chant and that those people were members of BLM and saying things consistent with BLM policy as described on the website of the organization. Otherwise shove your panthers and silly games.

 

You then write this absurd non sequitur about President Obama and his two terms in office. What has that got to do with anything. Or is this another not so subtle insinuation about a black person? Everyone keeps asking me to solve poverty and I keep telling them how it can be done but still the questions are asked.

 

Well here goes again. Change the taxation regime to favor labor instead of financial investments as has been the case since the Reagan trickle down economics era. OK. So that fixes the problem about employment but I don't think you are going to want an economic discussion. You seem to want a racial discussion.

 

Well, I am not going to satisfy you on that score either. My view is that race is a second order issue in the case of police shooting people. I believe that that the US law enforcement system is perverted and corrupted by a number of factors that has led to an institutionalized position where citizens are suspects and should not be offered any respect as persons irrespective of race, gender, sexual orientation or other distinguishing feature. Since that probably won't fit your agenda on this thread, then I don't intend to go any deeper. So telling me that a Black cop shot a Black person does not endorse any view that police are not racist. Racism is a compounding not causal factor.

 

So do we need to go into the absurd expectation that Obama is responsible for the maintenance of black poverty? I have seen and read many comments by white people who said 'but I voted for him to fix racism'. Where did this expectation of Obama heralding a post racial America come from? It came from the Right wing who blocked much of his political agenda by being the Party of No. It came from institutional inertia. It came from people who thought because white people elected Obama, then he would act like a white person. Instead he highlighted what minorities have been experiencing for years but white people have ignored or dismissed or refused to think about.

 

Obama is not an Avengers type character, no more than Hillary was. Hillary haters expected her to change into her Wonder Woman costume and fly to Benghazi to rescue the Ambassador. That's what comes from existing in a bubble surrounded by people and voices with no actual understanding of how the world works i.e. that old white straight guys are the rulers and tell everyone what to do. I don't believe you want a good faith discussion on poverty in American with specific reference to the African American experience. There is a ton of material on this.

 

Diminishing and marginalising Obama and African American people is not helpful. Stereotyping them as thugs, gangsta's and a permanent threat to society is actively antagonistic and perpetuates racism and bigotry.

 

I am not scared of minorities. I welcome diversity and the contribution of different people to society. The Baby Boomers have failed history. They turned into a bunch of middle class bourgeoise a-hole bigots scared of everything, locked behind their gated communities existing on viagra and Oxy. Gen X may do a bit better but it won't be until the Millenials fully take over that this mono-culture BS will be wiped away.

 

Well thank you for kicking me further down the road when I'm civil enough to make a concession. Personalised left wing sarcastic condescension seems obligatory I've noticed and renders this blog's etiquette impotent. I never mentioned Obama's skin color but if many blacks elected him to improve their lot and have been disappointed that is not my racism. Also it is not as black and white as you make out (no pun intended) there are many blacks who support Trump because they are wanting change.

I do not wish to enter into name  calling and bickering to risk a ban so I won't answer in depth because a lot of your post is off topic anyway. Suffice it to say that with the many postings online linking BLM with the video I  haven't seen one denying the sentiment despite their website principles.  Perhaps you can provide one since you are either a member or closely allied. Whether or not that group or another, perhaps they share similar goals and that is why the chant to "kill cops" has not been disavowed  because it is too close in meaning to "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon" which definitely is BLM. Nor do I see that rhetoric on the BLM website you so kindly referenced and yet there it is.

 

Since you require links for proof perhaps you can provide a link to me being a Trump supporter since you so easily categorize me as "Deplorable"  

 

Thank you for your reply.