Greek police use tear gas on protesting pensioners

[webfact]

Greek police use tear gas on protesting pensioners

 

 

ATHENS: -- Around 1500 Greek pensioners tried to march to Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s office on Monday to show their anger over cutbacks to their benefits.

 

Tensions flared when dozens attempted to push over a police bus. Police used tear gas to disperse the crowds.

 

The government is expected to introduce further austerity measures for its 2017 budget as the request of international lenders.

 

Pensioners have been particularly hard hit by a combination of reduced benefits and higher taxes.

 

Due to austerity reforms, pensions in Greece have been cut repeatedly and they are now worth 25-55% less than they were before the economic crisis.

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-10-04

 

 

[smedly]

I notice they never say how much these pensions actually are - I'd like to see a report from across the whole EU giving details for sate pension levels by country, I'd be willing to bet Germany is the highest

[Brer Fox]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

I notice they never say how much these pensions actually are - I'd like to see a report from across the whole EU giving details for sate pension levels by country, I'd be willing to bet Germany is the highest

Greece has enjoyed one of the most benevolent pension systems of the world. Possibly higher than Germany. 

The EU is is sick of bailing out their almost bankrupt Greek partner and has imposed lending restrictions unless  the Greeks change their wasteful ways including their excessively generous pension schemes.

Greece is now on an austerity programme imposed by the EU. Problem is the pensioners have had it too good for too long.

 

[Andaman Al]

I read somewhere that before the austerity measures a retired bus driver in Greece would be on a 60 000 euro a year pension. Guess from that about all other occupations. The Greeks could not wait to get to retirement age. What is a Brit state pension? 15 000 euros a year maybe? No wonder the Greeks are upset but they were all feeding at the trough too long.

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

Greece has enjoyed one of the most benevolent pension systems of the world. Possibly higher than Germany. 

The EU is is sick of bailing out their almost bankrupt Greek partner and has imposed lending restrictions unless  the Greeks change their wasteful ways including their excessively generous pension schemes.

Greece is now on an austerity programme imposed by the EU. Problem is the pensioners have had it too good for too long.

 

you seem to rate yourself as an authority on this but yet you have failed to post any accurate figures to support your claim, I agree however with most of your post but the inclusion of actual figures regarding pension rates and source would give some credibility to your first sentence

 

The EU seems to be unwilling to share such information in the public domain - I wonder why 

[Prbkk]

Unfunded pension liabilities will destroy most European economies unless the issues are addressed. The US situation is only marginally better. Consigning the grandkids to work until they are 90. 

The European arrangements are sheer economic lunacy and yet no one will deal with the issues for fear of losing the next election. Greece is the worst example but the others are not far behind.

[Rancid]

Yes, Greek gassing pensioners complaining of lost benefits is a just a preview of what is to come for most countries. Even if one assumes the current debt laden banking system can hold together, governments forward forecasts show they wont be able to afford pensions in the future with the aging workforces, and certainly not at the current rates. In case you are feeling concerned that the politicians will be affected, rest assured that is never going to happen.

 

I personally do not expect to receive a pension when I arrive at our constantly increasing retirement age. Truth is they want is so high most of us will be long dead before we can cash in. I am setting everything thing in place right now to become self funded, which includes no large sums sitting in dodgy banks ripe for confiscation. Would recommend a Plan B to all as a good protective measure.

[maoro2013]

2 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Unfunded pension liabilities will destroy most European economies unless the issues are addressed. The US situation is only marginally better. Consigning the grandkids to work until they are 90. 

The European arrangements are sheer economic lunacy and yet no one will deal with the issues for fear of losing the next election. Greece is the worst example but the others are not far behind.

In Australia various governments have stolen the retirement fund in times of tight liquidity and now are tightening eligibility requirements while the politicians have an almost unbelievable bonanza on retirement. 

 

I'm going for my pension whether I need it or not.

[Brer Fox]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

you seem to rate yourself as an authority on this but yet you have failed to post any accurate figures to support your claim, I agree however with most of your post but the inclusion of actual figures regarding pension rates and source would give some credibility to your first sentence

 

The EU seems to be unwilling to share such information in the public domain - I wonder why 

I don't rate myself as an authority on anything other than picking out ungracious people.  All I do is read other newspapers to broaden my knowledge. Try it sometimes.

I can only suggest you look up Google for your answers. I am sure you can do that yourself without my help.

However here's a clue. The difficulty in providing actual figure is I believe because each individual is different. From what I read it as calculated as a percentage of the retirement salary with related factors like years of service, the year of retirement and salary rate at retirement. Go ask as Greek.

Good luck in trying to find out the information for yourself.

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 hours ago, Rancid said:

Yes, Greek gassing pensioners complaining of lost benefits is a just a preview of what is to come for most countries. Even if one assumes the current debt laden banking system can hold together, governments forward forecasts show they wont be able to afford pensions in the future with the aging workforces, and certainly not at the current rates. In case you are feeling concerned that the politicians will be affected, rest assured that is never going to happen.

 

I personally do not expect to receive a pension when I arrive at our constantly increasing retirement age. Truth is they want is so high most of us will be long dead before we can cash in. I am setting everything thing in place right now to become self funded, which includes no large sums sitting in dodgy banks ripe for confiscation. Would recommend a Plan B to all as a good protective measure.

i dont think people really understand how financial systems are being run on paper money backed by nothing and low interest rates that will perpetuate bubble bust cycles.

[lvr181]

Yup, Greek police are tough trying to take on pensioners! And with teargas! Next they will want to bring in another "tough" group like the French Foreign Legion (what was the last war they won?). 

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

I notice they never say how much these pensions actually are - I'd like to see a report from across the whole EU giving details for sate pension levels by country, I'd be willing to bet Germany is the highest

 

Re that bet, this was the situation as at 2010:

Years of work to earn a full pension: greece 35, germany 45

proportion of wages as a pension: greece 80%, germany 46%

number of pension payments a year: greece 14, germany 12

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

Then wonder why so many people get angry at their government when they decide to bring in a bunch of Refugees. 

 

I am all for being generous and helping the needy! But you need to take care of you own first! It is a sad day when you work all your life paying into a pension, and when you finally make it to the age you can collect, they cut it into half and tax you on the rest. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

15 hours ago, maoro2013 said:

In Australia various governments have stolen the retirement fund in times of tight liquidity and now are tightening eligibility requirements while the politicians have an almost unbelievable bonanza on retirement. 

 

I'm going for my pension whether I need it or not.

Oh they will give you your pension whether you need it or not. They promised that to you.

 

But if your saving or income level is above your pension payment, they will tax you to death. So they will put it in one pocket, then take it back out again from the other. Seen my government do that plenty of times, like with baby bonuses and child care expenses. Okay if you are at the poverty line, but if you are above that then you pay and pay. 

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Then wonder why so many people get angry at their government when they decide to bring in a bunch of Refugees. 

 

I am all for being generous and helping the needy! But you need to take care of you own first! It is a sad day when you work all your life paying into a pension, and when you finally make it to the age you can collect, they cut it into half and tax you on the rest. 

 

In an age of declining birth rates, workforces that aren't growing like they used to, and aging populations with oldsters no longer dying like flies, there's a school of thought that immigrants are a great way to boost the workforce, and keep the ponzy schemes going a little longer. Think of it as socialism on a respirator.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by hawker9000

[GOLDBUGGY]

30 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

 

In an age of declining birth rates, workforces that aren't growing like they used to, and aging populations with oldsters no longer dying like flies, there's a school of thought that immigrants are a great way to boost the workforce, and keep the ponzy schemes going a little longer. Think of it as socialism on a respirator.

 

Yes! What you say is very true. Especially when they are trained professional in areas your country lacks expertise in. In fact Canada has been employing Doctors from overseas for years now (and probably the UK does this to) in which they are willing to work under the Government Payment Scheme. The USA doesn't have to do this as they get all their Doctors from Canada. Their Private System pays far better than the Government System. Just ask anyone from the USA who has to buy Medical Insurance their. 

 

But then you really have to question this strategy when the people allowed into your country have large families, are unskilled, uneducated, and don't even speak the language. The money spent on bringing them up to a standard in which they can work, and pay taxes and pensions, must be huge. Cheaper to just give it to the Pensioners and be done with it.  

 

What good is their in bringing in a bunch of unskilled labor anyway when your country already suffers from 7% to 8% unemployed? Isn't it better you get them working first and paying taxes and pensions before you bring in more? When you have University Graduates unable to find a job, and when they do not near high enough to pay back Student Loans? In my book, adding to a problem doesn't make it go away. It only males it get worst. 

 

Other approaches some governments have tried is investing these Pension Funds into something that pays a better return in the long run, like stocks and bonds. Or allowed people to invest their government pensions privately. Even though returns should be much better in a Mutual Fund, I honestly don't know how well this is going either. 

 

The truth is that there is no easy fix to our Government Pension Plans. All countries are suffering with this and what to do next. When it first started in Germany there was large families and most people didn't live to age 65 to even collect. Now the reverse is true, with small families and people living much longer.

 

Getting people to work longer sounds good on paper. But when most employers don't want to hire anyone past the age of 55, it is difficult to keep your job, and almost impossible to find one then. Until there is a change in their mind set, and stop thinking that at age 60 the guy should be given a Golden Watch and sent out to pasture, this will never change either.       

[wolfmuc]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

22 hours ago, smedly said:

I notice they never say how much these pensions actually are - I'd like to see a report from across the whole EU giving details for sate pension levels by country, I'd be willing to bet Germany is the highest

Smedly, in 2015 there have been a lot of people entering Germany. I’m not sure about the numbers,
but I think that was more than one million. – So how many people might travel the next years from Africa or

elsewhere to Central Europe  if there were ‘details for state pension levels by country’ ? 

 

SheungWan, thanks for your post.  

 

By the way, English ‘pension’ is in German ‘Rente’ or a completely different thing called ‘Pension’.
Depending on one’s career ‘Pension’ is much higher than ‘Rente’ and the ‘Pensionist’ (civil servants,

politicians, teachers etc.) usually never had contributed anything for his/her old days.

 

I might add that with the average ‘Rente’ it’s almost impossible to survive in most parts of Germany.

 

 

 

 

[wolfmuc]

Made a mistake. Here is SheungWan's post:

 

Re that bet, this was the situation as at 2010:

Years of work to earn a full pension: greece 35, germany 45

proportion of wages as a pension: greece 80%, germany 46%

number of pension payments a year: greece 14, germany 12

[Laughing Gravy]

Seems the Gravy Train is going. I do have sympathy with anyone who has paid into a pension scheme with the believe they will be getting xxx and don't. You never see Politicians or civil servants losing their pensions in the same way or bankers. Just hypocrisy at the highest level.

[little mary sunshine]

Lazy people expect to retire at 50 with full lifetime

benefits....Cut them by 70%!!!

[GOLDBUGGY]

7 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Lazy people expect to retire at 50 with full lifetime

benefits....Cut them by 70%!!!

Not In Canada!

 

Before the earliest you could start was 60 years old and getting 50% benefits, increasing to 100% by age 65. Recently they bumped this up by 2 years, so now it starts at age 62 for 50%, and 67 for 100%.