Laughing Gravy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, jpinx said: If you go down that route of reasoning, you can disassemble most countries. ; ) Ireland and the UK have extremely close links and it wasn't that long ago really when they were run by one sovereign. France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Hungary etc etc have never been part of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: Let me explain why I don’t feel that having dual citizenship, one with the UK and one as an EU citizen, is the right thing. Firstly how do you quantify who gets one. I lived and worked in two EU countries but don’t feel that I am a citizen of them countries. I have been here in Thailand for over 15 years and don’t feel I should get a Thai passport. I am here working and have to get a visa and work permit every year to justify that my credentials are correct. I agree with that. I would like some things to change for long term foreigners who are married to a Thai like buying property (houses). The same when I was working and in Europe I had to justify my credentials. I believe in a points based system. The dual citizenship could be open for lots of manipulation and then who qualifies. The sister, cousin, aunt, father in law etc. I am not against people working in other countries providing they are contributing and are needed. Having an EU citizenship would qualify people to move across all the EU countries for benefits, housing, schooling, health care etc. That is what I see as a potential problem. Again this is just my opinion and others will have their own. I accept your reasoning, but it omits to include the child of - for example, a UK father and a Thai mother, born and educated while the family were living and working in Germany. What passport(s) should the child have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: Ireland and the UK have extremely close links and it wasn't that long ago really when they were run by one sovereign. France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Hungary etc etc have never been part of the UK. Yes - I appreciate that this topic is UK-centric - I was just pointing out how history has shown that most countries morph extensively over time. On your point about benefits -- holding a passport does not entitle someone to benefits in the country of issuance. He/She will have to go through the same process of working and paying taxes as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, jpinx said: I accept your reasoning, but it omits to include the child of - for example, a UK father and a Thai mother, born and educated while the family were living and working in Germany. What passport(s) should the child have? That situation happens here in Thailand quite a lot that I know of. I know of two Thais who had a daughter in America and she has an American passport. Whilst two Brits here had children here in Thailand and can't get a Thai passport. For the case you mention, I am not against two passports, as parents are from two different countries. It was the get an EU passport for all EU countries, just because you want to work/live there I am against. Edited November 10, 2016 by Laughing Gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, jpinx said: Yes - I appreciate that this topic is UK-centric - I was just pointing out how history has shown that most countries morph extensively over time. On your point about benefits -- holding a passport does not entitle someone to benefits in the country of issuance. He/She will have to go through the same process of working and paying taxes as anyone. In the UK at the moment Polish, Romanians, Hungarians etc etc are claiming UK benefits and housing. It is one of the contentious issues that annoys people.Or are you talking about your EU citizenship passport if it existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I already have a European Union passport. I'm happy to keep it, and if someone wants one that is exclusively UK I'm okay with that. I'd be delighted if this came about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: In the UK at the moment Polish, Romanians, Hungarians etc etc are claiming UK benefits and housing. It is one of the contentious issues that annoys people.Or are you talking about your EU citizenship passport if it existed. I am not a benefits expert -- but my understanding is that the entitlement is nothing to do with their passport, per se, but is to do with EU rules and regulations -- which I agree, are bonkers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said: Look at your history. Ireland was once part of the United Kingdom. Would you include the former British Empire colonies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 23 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: That situation happens here in Thailand quite a lot that I know of. I know of two Thais who had a daughter in America and she has an American passport. Whilst two Brits here had children here in Thailand and can't get a Thai passport. For the case you mention, I am not against two passports, as parents are from two different countries. It was the get an EU passport for all EU countries, just because you want to work/live there I am against. There used to be a process in UK which an employer had to go through to bring in a foreign worker. It involved showing that you could not fill the vacancy from the local workforce, and a few other requirements besides. It was not particularly onerous and as an employer I jumped through that hoop a few times without issues. The employee arrives with their papers, works, pays taxes and if they want to change jobs, the next employer has to go through the same paperwork again, until the incomer has taken the initiative to stay by applying for residency, in whatever form that might take, which would only then allow him/her access to all the benefits. Nowadays it's gone crazy and people can arrive from some of the poor countries in EU and claim benefits in UK apparantly with no intention of working and no background reason for being in UK. It's the EU's way of making Europe into one country by a a very sneaky means. It is similar to Russia planting Russian families in the Crimea, England planting English families in Ireland, etc, etc. Conquest by the back door -- but I digress,,, ; ) You mention Brits who had kids with Thai partners in Thailand, and I am reasonably sure that they just need to do the right papers. It has been in several topics in TV before. The concept of inheriting a nationality is not new, look at all the kids born to colonial officials all over the world. It used to be commonplace for colonials to send the pregnant mother back to UK to "place" the birth favourably. This is another nice hot potato spin off from Brexit and it's nice to air it. Too many times there are consequences to enacting some "feel-good" concept without thinking and arguing it through thoroughly. ; ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, rockingrobin said: Would you include the former British Empire colonies No. The empire colonies are hardly next door. Edited November 10, 2016 by Laughing Gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: No. The empire colonies are hardly next door. Whilst this is coming up in a very UK/EU context - we need to think through the implications for UK in the whole world. Edited November 10, 2016 by jpinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said: Ireland and the UK have extremely close links and it wasn't that long ago really when they were run by one sovereign. France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Hungary etc etc have never been part of the UK. France ruled England , norman conquest and England has ruled France. The UK pooled its Sovereignty with the EU with 1972 ECA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Gravy Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, rockingrobin said: France ruled England , norman conquest and England has ruled France. The UK pooled its Sovereignty with the EU with 1972 ECA Is that your argument. OK then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said: No. The empire colonies are hardly next door. It might be possible for UK people to apply to the EU for some form of schengen work visa in their independent UK passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 20 hours ago, AlexRich said: I like this idea. If you want Brexit, go for it, and if you want to opt-in and retain EU citizenship, that is open to you. I do hope that this passes ... as I can retain my association with Europe and the EU. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/european-parliament-considers-plan-to-let-individual-brits-opt-in-to-keep-their-eu-citizenship/ar-AAk3yZb?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout That's brilliant! The foolish EU will keep all the bright Brits and lose the numpties! FANTASTIC where do I sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said: I would not stop you at all. If that's what you want. I don't think you should have dual citizenship though. It should be one or the other. Great, I'm out! Imagine the UK with all the bright people gone! 17M Brexiteers and about the same dunnos ( that's funny, iPhone auto correction wants to put dumbos). God, you could make a great movie about that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Grouse said: Great, I'm out! Imagine the UK with all the bright people gone! 17M Brexiteers and about the same dunnos ( that's funny, iPhone auto correction wants to put dumbos). God, you could make a great movie about that!!! It's a clever move on their part. Let's face it the young people who move overseas tend to be well educated and/or those with a sense of adventure. It is possible that some of our brightest people will leave for opportunities in the EU. I read today that Berlin is attracting some London based tech start up companies ... who don't want to be restricted by Brexit. Sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 hours ago, AlexRich said: It's a clever move on their part. Let's face it the young people who move overseas tend to be well educated and/or those with a sense of adventure. It is possible that some of our brightest people will leave for opportunities in the EU. I read today that Berlin is attracting some London based tech start up companies ... who don't want to be restricted by Brexit. Sad. Eloquently put! Berlin is pretty groovy ( with all those connotations) Its such a great idea; I'm going to bed smiling ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Grouse said: Eloquently put! Berlin is pretty groovy ( with all those connotations) Its such a great idea; I'm going to bed smiling ? Compared to London, Berlin is pretty boring. As a card to play in the let's leave the UK stakes, not even a Jack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Grouse said: Eloquently put! Berlin is pretty groovy ( with all those connotations) Its such a great idea; I'm going to bed smiling ? My good friend (and David "Mac" MacAlister's sister) tells me there are clubs that cater to all manner of "fetishes" in Berlin. Oooo errr, Missus! (PS: No sex please, we're British!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 3 hours ago, SheungWan said: Compared to London, Berlin is pretty boring. As a card to play in the let's leave the UK stakes, not even a Jack. Funnily enough I've been watching a new spy thriller called 'Berlin Station', about CIA activity in Berlin. The City looks great and as has been said above is a very colourful place ... and in my view an exciting place to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, AlexRich said: Funnily enough I've been watching a new spy thriller called 'Berlin Station', about CIA activity in Berlin. The City looks great and as has been said above is a very colourful place ... and in my view an exciting place to stay. 'The City (Berlin) looks great...' So I guess you haven't been there, have you? If so, not exactly a good reflection on your other contributions re the Brexit thread. Edited November 10, 2016 by SheungWan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) I lived in Berlin for a while. Great place with a quality of life well above London. London is probably better if you are very wealthy, but for a professional young person its basically unaffordable. Even on a comparatively high salary most of your income will be spent on accommodation - or face a very lengthy commute. Been there and done it - like a lot of the UK its bloody grim for the average worker. I would actually choose Munich over Berlin. Very affordable and great quality of life. When I worked there we used to finish at midday on Friday and drive south for some windsurfing, skiing, microlighting etc over the weekend. There is just no comparison between the lifestyle in London and somewhere like Munich. Plenty of jobs too - it has a thriving tech sector. Edited November 11, 2016 by HauptmannUK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I agree, I've lived in Munich and it's one of the nicest cities I've ever visited, proximity to the Alps et al makes it highly desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 hours ago, SheungWan said: 'The City (Berlin) looks great...' So I guess you haven't been there, have you? If so, not exactly a good reflection on your other contributions re the Brexit thread. Really? Having been in Berlin is necessary for someone to have an informed opinion about Brexit? What exactly would someone learn from visiting Berlin that would be crucial to understanding Brexit? What would there be without which an informed opinion is impossible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Zzexit seems to be becoming quite a thing now... http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/calexit-donald-trump/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Now it appears that Renzzi is threatening to resign if Italy does not support him and the EU. If that happens Itexit becomes a very real possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dick dasterdly Posted November 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2016 16 hours ago, Grouse said: Great, I'm out! Imagine the UK with all the bright people gone! 17M Brexiteers and about the same dunnos ( that's funny, iPhone auto correction wants to put dumbos). God, you could make a great movie about that!!! Presumably the same is going to happen in the US? The violence shown by those who hate Trump towards Trump supporters has proven that the unintelligent "numpties" are not confined to one side, and I've no doubt the same applies in the UK. Credit to UK voters though as they haven't shown the same propensity to demonstrate/riot and whilst doing so attack those who voted the other way. Instead, a wealthy person (with a lot of backing from others who hate the referendum result) brought a court case in an attempt to nullify the referendum result..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 The EU and those EU countries with elections coming up must be feeling v nervous indeed following first the Brexit vote, and then the Trump vote. Ordinary voters finally releasing their frustrations and ignoring what they are being told by the 'establishment' - relying instead on what has been happening in their own lives for many years. Is it the start of a 'domino' effect as other ordinary voters take courage from those shock results and decide to do the same? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said: Presumably the same is going to happen in the US? The violence shown by those who hate Trump towards Trump supporters has proven that the unintelligent "numpties" are not confined to one side, and I've no doubt the same applies in the UK. Credit to UK voters though as they haven't shown the same propensity to demonstrate/riot and whilst doing so attack those who voted the other way. Instead, a wealthy person (with a lot of backing from others who hate the referendum result) brought a court case in an attempt to nullify the referendum result..... Can you please explain how the court case is going to nullify the referendum result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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