Bilingual/multilingual Kids Strategies

[matcube]

Ok, I think the topic think_too_mut started in the original "English Speaking Children In Lampang" is interesting enough to dedicate its own topic (at least there are two people interested, me and think_too_mut).

To start answering thinks' original question: there are several reasons why I would like my kids to interact with other English-speaking ones:

1) I am the only one who ends up speaking English to them

2) There are long periods of time when I won't be around (more than a month)

3) I am not a native English speaker

4) Kids learn a lot from peers

5) Kids may refuse to learn at all if they don't see that the environment around them speaks that language. This is not a rule and not always the case, but I have seen several examples.

I am happy to elaborate/discuss/reply/add to this initial points, later though since it's bedtime now.

Matt

[November Rain]

Funnily, I have the opposite problem. My little boy (stepson) is Thai & since his father died, he only speaks English at home (apart from the odd Thai word if it explains a concept better than the English ones he knows). What worries me is that he will lose his fluency in Thai and also his understanding of Thai culture (I've already had a friend of his Dad speak to him about his wai-ing, as he was becoming very perfunctory about that). He goes to a Thai school with some English lessons, but no children live near us & none of my friends have kids, so after school it's just him & I. I worry about him being lonely, but also about his Thai language abilities.

[matcube]

Nov Rain,

Do I understand correctly that you and your (step) son live in Thailand? Do you plan to live here for at least another 1-2 years? How old is your son? If you live in Thailand, your son will become fluent in Thai even if you tried to prevent it (just to stress the impossibility that your son won't be fluent). Mechanism and timing of learning depends case by case, but I have yet to see (and I came across dozen of cases in several Countries) a child that doesn't learn the local language.

Just as an extreme example, the daughter of an Italian couple emigrated to Canada was spoken to in Italian at home, and barely knew any English. Two weeks after entering school (at the age of 5 or 6) one day she came home, and to the astonished parents she said, in English: "I don't understand you guys any more" (maybe not those exact words, I wasn't there :-) ), and from that moment on she stop speaking Italian (although she still understands it, she is now 23).

Matt

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Funnily, I have the opposite problem. My little boy (stepson) is Thai & since his father died, he only speaks English at home (apart from the odd Thai word if it explains a concept better than the English ones he knows). What worries me is that he will lose his fluency in Thai and also his understanding of Thai culture (I've already had a friend of his Dad speak to him about his wai-ing, as he was becoming very perfunctory about that). He goes to a Thai school with some English lessons, but no children live near us & none of my friends have kids, so after school it's just him & I. I worry about him being lonely, but also about his Thai language abilities.

I would not worry at all. He will get all the Thai he needs at school.

[November Rain]

Thanks to both of you for the reassurance. Yes, we are in Thailand. He does speak Thai & to me it sounds very fluent, but then I only "poot Thai nid noi" I guess sometimes I worry too much, because I really want him to grow up as a Thai, not a farang (although, the best of both would be nice!)

[fxm88]

Bilingualism Has Protective Effect In Delaying Onset Of Dementia By Four Years, Canadian Study Shows

Canadian scientists have found astonishing evidence that the lifelong use of two languages can help delay the onset of dementia symptoms by four years compared to people who are monolingual.

...

Source: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=60646

[jbowman1993]

Now that is interesting.... Guess I better stock up on my dementia drugs.

[nikster]

Bilingualism Has Protective Effect In Delaying Onset Of Dementia By Four Years, Canadian Study Shows

Canadian scientists have found astonishing evidence that the lifelong use of two languages can help delay the onset of dementia symptoms by four years compared to people who are monolingual.

...

Source: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=60646

This is interesting but I can hardly think of a worse reason to learn two languages

I think it's a given that growing up bi-lingual or tri-lingual is a good thing. Although I am not sure how to go about it at the moment. But then I have a few months to go before my kid is even born

My current plan is to move the kids to Austria/the US at some point when they are still young so they learn the language properly. I have some friends who went to the U.S. to live with a foster family for a few months as part of their school program and they all came back speaking excellent English. They were between 15 and 16 when they went overseas. Everyone has English at school but until they go live in an English-speaking country, they don't learn it well at all.

German speaking friends of mine who live in the US speak German to each other and to the kids at home so the kids learn German. They figure the kids will pick up English all on their own and this seems to be happening even now before they have entered primary school. Probably because of many english-speaking friends, the rule is always to speak English when English-speakers are around so they are not cut out of the conversation.

They also tried to teach the kids Spanish and French, starting from age 0. I don't know how that's worked out so far but I assume that it will just fall by the wayside as having two kids while working is a lot of work as it is and there may simply not be the time for daily Spanish/French lessons.

To sum it all up, I think the main challenge for any parents is to teach the kids a language that's not spoken all around them. The best solution I can see so far is to move them to different countries to properly learn. I will teach them German by sending them to stay with grandma in the summer or such. And English by moving our whole family to the US for a while. I can not really see how kids would really learn a language unless they need to speak it. However, doing this later - in their teens - works as well. An English-international School is a good idea too. English is the most important language in the world and that will only become more prominent.

Some people think Chinese will be super important too but I can't really see it - the gravitational pull of the most widely spoken language will only increase. It's a self-reinforcing trend - the more people speak a language the more useful it is, the more useful it is the more people learn it. Chinese are learning English.

Edited February 16, 2007 by nikster

[thaigene2]

I agree going back to an English speaking country is a good idea when the kids are young. Not just for the language skills but to learn how to be an 'independent' thinker - before the 'collective' society thing brainwashes them forever.

But conversely I'd want to try to move back to Thailand by the time they reach puberty, precisely so that 'individualism' doesn't brainwash them into selfish little loud-mouths forever.

Anyway..if I had a choice..it would be the best of 'both worlds.' while trying to avoid the worst..

[sutnyod]

Hi matcube,

I think your kid is still quite young. You should not worry, really. I have three who grew up with three languages: one of the country we lived in, my language and the schooling language. Two of them are older than twenty now and both speak eight languages fluently. Their approach to learning languages is like using a tool: I have never used a hammer? Then I just learn how to use it.

However, I was worried, too, when they were small. I would speak to them in my mother tongue all the time, only to get answered in the country's language. It took approx. 4 years (and a trip to my home country) for them to also USE my language. Starting from then, everything just "fell into place".

I also must add, that they had a good environment: nobody would laugh about them when they used any language incorrectly (mostly). They were just gently corrected.

[matcube]

Hi sutnyod,

Thanks for your supporting and interesting message. It would be nice to hear your (and your kids') stories, I am sure you have some interesting ones to tell. The reason why I was (and partly still am) concerned is that I have come across several examples of kids that learned a language and later "lost it". I am not concerned about the number of languages one kid can pick up, but rather, by the fact that if he is not exposed or doesn't feel the need to use one of them, he will most likely lose it. My 3 1/2 year old daughter is now fluent in Thai and Italian, and speaks to me in English, which is the school language. Soon we are moving back to Italy, and since I don't plan to send her to an English speaking school there, I am afraid she will switch back and speak Italian to me, and English will become a thing of the past, that's why I was looking for ways to boost up her English as much as possible before the move.

Matcube

[sutnyod]

Hi Matcube,

yes, I had the same concerns (and priorities). When I was (probably) your age I did a lot of inquiries on this topic, because I was worried about my kids, too.

"forgetting" a language:

1. Yes, it seems one forgets a language once one is not exposed to it anymore. I have learned a language as child, which I have not used for 20 year. However, last year I saw a film with sequences in this language and it all came back! Strange, absolutely strange. I had convinced myself that this language was dead, but it was still there. I feel that after living in a country using that language for two months I would probably be back to my old level.

2. My second child lives in Europe now and feels she is forgetting her Asian languages. She started befriending Asians, has now access to their circles and the language is coming back. Example Thai: She has not spoken Thai for several years now (and never lived in Thailand anyway). When she was here on holiday last year she had to negotiate a fare and suddenly could not remember the word for "twenty". In a very small voice she asked: "songsib"? She remembered that something was "wrong" with the word for twenty, but could not remember what. But still she knew enough to make herself (more or less ;-) ) understood.

multilingual kids:

I agree, it is not the amount of languages that counts. When I did my "research" during the childhood of my kids, most books said that it is the PATTERN that is most important. It is, for instance, more beneficial for the capability of a person to learn a language later in life to have learned (as a child) languages with a different pattern. It is better for your kid to having been exposed to a tonal language and to a romanic language than, say, Italian and French.

Cheers

Edited March 3, 2007 by sutnyod

[keestha]

A half foreign/half Thai kid will usually be entitled to citizenship of the foreign partner's country, and might eventually decide to settle there. Therefore I think it is essential the child learns the foreign partner's native language. Wife 7 months pregnant though, I foresee that I am going to have a problem with this. After 16 years in Thailand, my Thai is pretty fluent now, and of course I always converse in Thai with my wife, who hardly speaks any English. So it might be difficult to consequently speak my native Dutch to the child. Another problem is that she will not have much chance to speak Dutch to other people than me: I own and run a resort where only very few Dutch speaking people come, the vast majority of the guests are German speakers. Will probably end up speaking my heavily accented Thai to the child, thereby corrupting its grasp of this language.

[matcube]

keestha,

you should definitely speak either dutch or english to your child from the very first day. My first daughter spent her first 24 months of her life in Italy, where the only thai speaking person she interacted with was my wife - if we exclude two short visits (from and to) the grandparents. When we moved to Thailand the day of her 2nd birthday, her thai was almost as good as her Italian. I subsequently introduced English, thanks to the school.

I wouldn't be worried about corrupting her thai with your accent, that won't happen, but I would not want to let go the chance to teach her a language that she would have a hard time to learn as an adult.

The major impediment I see it's that when children are young (below 2) you often don't speak to the children, you speak to the adults. Example, you may tell your child "go get the pen from mummy" and if your wife has no clue of what you are talking about, it's going to be hard. You could try to repeat the sentence twice, in two languages, I am not sure, I have never tried. Other opinions may be valuable here, in my case my wife and I spoke the three languages (italian, thai, and english) so we didn't have this problem, but I remember when I first tried to introduce English while in Italy it was really really hard, exactly because the people around me wouldn't understand and could not be "partners" in the talk-game with the kid.

Matcube

[captcraig]

And you thought you had problems? my wife is Thai, we have two daughters one four (step) and one two, four year old speaks no Englsh....My two year old speaks no Thai! four year old just started school in Thailand and were about ready to move back there with the two year old, what am I gonna do?

[talatnat]

And you thought you had problems? my wife is Thai, we have two daughters one four (step) and one two, four year old speaks no Englsh....My two year old speaks no Thai! four year old just started school in Thailand and were about ready to move back there with the two year old, what am I gonna do?

Not to worry too much. My six-year-old stepson moved in with us last year; he knew no English at all. My three-year-old daughter spoke a smattering of Thai and English, most often both in a sentence. A year later, my son understands rudimentary English, and speaks full grammatical sentences; my daughter's Thai fluency is up several notches, and she speaks mixed Thai-English (her conception of English) exclusively with me. Given that their only contact with English is through me and my Thai wife, their Thai will be always better than their English, but their English is still way ahead of any other kids OR adults in our neighbourhood. Not to worry.

[Lalavonvon]

Hi All,

As a result of mixed inter-racial marriage (my husband is Thai and I am Singaporean), our two girls aged 4 and 7 are exposed to different languages we used at home. But they speak English primarily as we live in Australia. To encourage them to pick up our languages, we had started recently to speak Chinese on Saturdays amongst ourselves and at the end of the day, the girls get 50 cents towards their piggy bank. Likewise, we practice Thai on Sundays and they get 50 cents too.

This worked pretty well and our youngest speak 3 languages now. As for the eldest, she is more linguistic and speaks 3 languages fluently (English, Thai and Chinese), understands Bahasa Indonesian because of my mixed heritage, and Italian as her school curriculum covers this. She also picks up the dialects that I speak at home with my family.

I guess what I am driving at is that children are very quick at learning. With a bit of help here and there, they will be alright at picking these skills.

Lalavonvon

PS: May I add that on weekends, the use of each English word or phrase will result in deducting 10 cents from their piggy bank? Yes ... no English on weekends at home with the family.

[sonicdragon]

Members might find this (slightly) academic paper written by a linguist at birkbeck college london about trilingual language acquisition in young childred. He uses his own daughter as the subject - learning French, Dutch and English from a very early age. The writer is dutch, his wife french and they live in the UK.

http://www.bbk.ac.uk/lachouette/chou31/Dewael31.pdf

As suggested by several posters, I believe that simply living in thailand will result in any child acquiring good thai language skills from an early age. I have read several articles in addition to the one posted above that say for 2nd and 3rd languages, it is highly preferable for each parent to speak exclsuively in one languauge to the child.

I have also read that multilingual children can be confused in the early stages, and may show signs of late language development very early on - however it seems that this problem is overcome quite easily and very naturally when there is a structure to their language development (ie, they have exposure to each language in the same circumstances). Problems may arise where the same adults speak in different languages to the child or when they are exposed to different languages in different places outside the home. The child will learn the association between a particular adult and a particular language, and/or between a particular location and a particularly language very early on, and by the time they can consiously comprehend the concept of different languages they will start to be able to converse natively with anyone they meet anywhere.

Well, that's the theory anyway - I'm sure that in practice it is quite challenging ! For my children - 6 month old twins - we are exposing them to 4 languages, english, thai, mandarin chinese and cantonese chinese. I speak exclusively in english to them, my wife exclusively in thai, and my wife's family exclusively in mandarin. When speaking among ourselves in front of the children I speak as exclusively as possible in english and my wife as exclusively as possible in thai, and her family as exclusively as possible in mandarin (this leads to some frustration among us since we are far from fluent in each other's language, but we feel it is in the best interests of the children and it also helps our own listenning skills). We intend to enrol them in a trilingual pre-school in thailand from next year. Since we also spend a lot of time in Hong Kong we expect them to learn cantonese chinese naturally through being exposed to it here.