Investment Condo?

[Changmainewbie]

Hello,

just looking for general advice on buying a studio condo in Chang Mai.

Not looking for hi end or bottom of the pile, just a complex that is well looked after/clean/pool/gym and no more than say 2 to 3 km from any side of the old center moats.

Are there any complexes which hold their value or increase in value more than others?

I had a budget of around 2 million baht in mind.

looking back through this forum I found PP, SR and Riverside mentioned. I did not like the first 2 and I thought Riverside was in a good location. However, I noticed on the old thread back in 2012 that Riverside were going to spend money on making a covered area for the motorbikes and maybe starting a gym?. When I called in to Riverside the other day to check out the complex, the first thing I asked about was the gym and covered area. 4 years later they do not have either of them in the complex.

so I can rule out that complex as well because it worries me that they did not spend the money on the covered area as mentioned was promised many years ago.

am I expecting too much in that price range with the above criteria?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

You might like Dcampus condo ....by Sansiri Developers....but the reality is that it is better to find a gym and pool on your own, as opposed to paying for broken ones.   Far snew v used..the disparity in prices is just too great, and it will never be new after you buy it.  The most serious defects take a fee years to surface.  Best to find great location with good bones...I was told that the Chinese are looking for 7% gross, and that may explain why the 24 sm studios around Nimman for 2.8 million are only 20% sold....might only rent for 12k.

Edited October 27, 2016 by KhonKaenKowboy

[baywatch82]

Go with old buildings at Nimman area

[lkn]

Quote

 

Are there any complexes which hold their value or increase in value more than others?

I had a budget of around 2 million baht in mind.

 

 

No offence, but for 2 million baht, do you really care if it appreciate 1% or 3% a year? or that it hasn’t gained any value when you want to sell it in, how many years are you looking at?

 

As for general advice, first find the area you like then drive around and go into any building that looks interesting. If you do not mind living in a Thai building, there are some decent options, although swimming pool will be quite rare. I have seen gyms in Thai buildings, but that’s probably also rare.

 

[zorro1]

It doesn't matter really, you talking about a small amount of money equivalent to the purchase of new Toyota or Honda . Just buy whatever makes you happy. Now if you were talking dropping 15million, well that deserves serious research

[futsukayoi]

8 hours ago, zorro1 said:

It doesn't matter really, you talking about a small amount of money equivalent to the purchase of new Toyota or Honda . Just buy whatever makes you happy. Now if you were talking dropping 15million, well that deserves serious research

 

For a lot of people (most of the world ?) 2 million represents a major investment and they are being very reasonable to spend time and effort making sure that it has a good chance of a reasonable return.  Even most of those with significantly more money usually have some idea of the work to accumulate that sum and view it as more than pocket change.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I agree...less than 1% of Thais have that much cash available, and they would need financing for a Toyota,also...not much different than America.  Wages are much better, but those are mostly offset with rent that is even higher.  The house I paid 540,000 THB for in 2010,in America, is now worth close to 3.7 million. 

[amexpat]

Thank you for sharing that.

[realenglish1]

Save your money The market in general is overbuilt and in my opinion there will be a  correction in the Real Estate Market here in Thailand

Happened in the US Australian and many other areas in the world China included

Thailand Condo market is artificially increased by builders and not based on tthe reality of supply and  demand . Right now a rental can be had for about 10,000 baht for a 36 sqm Condo but it rises to more than 25,000 to 30,000 because someone paid more for the condo

The cheaper will rent first and the others will be left hanging for months if not years  There is a real disconnect in the reality of a rental and the market price of a Condo here .

A correction is long overdue Prices cannot continue to rise We may be at the top of the market now So be careful my friend

Edited October 31, 2016 by realenglish1

[Beng]

Apart from increasing its value, The main problem with many condos is the lack of proper management. The management companies give a heck and spend as much as possible, only in order to increase the common fee.

[little mary sunshine]

Location, location, location....Never buy one

of those 32sqm shoeboxes!!

[KhonKaenKowboy]

48 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Location, location, location....Never buy one

of those 32sqm shoeboxes!!

What's the difference between a 64 sm condo and 2, 32 square meter condos?  About 4 hours work and 2000 thb for a thai man.  Of course we all know about the geniuses that rent houses in SanSai....

[yellowboat]

Questions to ask :   What happens of maintanence is not paid buy the other owners ?   What happens to the condo if I die ?

 

Known many who have bought in Thailand and to their horror the place would go to pot and the could not sell even close to what they paid.  Lobbies have one elevator that have been broken for months.  Pools and the lobby looks terrible.  Some areas are over built, so finding and keeping renters is a chore.   Think twice.

Edited October 31, 2016 by yellowboat

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

OP first look for an area you like and rent a place, after a month or two you can decide if you want to buy in this area. Many things are hidden until you stay in an area.

[Jeffkp]

18 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Questions to ask :   What happens of maintanence is not paid buy the other owners ?   What happens to the condo if I die ?

 

Known many who have bought in Thailand and to their horror the place would go to pot and the could not sell even close to what they paid.  Lobbies have one elevator that have been broken for months.  Pools and the lobby looks terrible.  Some areas are over built, so finding and keeping renters is a chore.   Thank twice.

The owners committee is key. They supervise management and keep an eye on costs. Ask management how current owners are on their fees. I don't think many Thais consider fees when they buy. 

Have a Thai will drawn up.That's what I did.

If owner's fees are not current, then they cannot sell their condos.

[1FinickyOne]

7 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

OP first look for an area you like and rent a place, after a month or two you can decide if you want to buy in this area. Many things are hidden until you stay in an area.

 

I have to agree with the idea of renting for a while - if you are dealing with a limited amount of funds especially. If you change your mind down the road, have an awful building or even a terrible neighbor, it might not be easy to sell. And, the luster of being in CM might wear off after a year - best advice is to rent for a year and take your time and look around... good luck. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 million is a deposit on a more solid investment in a western country. can probably buy a 200k usd condo with that sort of deposit. whats your home country? it is possible to get 10% growth in the west now a days. thats a better investment.

[little mary sunshine]

2 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

What's the difference between a 64 sm condo and 2, 32 square meter condos?  About 4 hours work and 2000 thb for a thai man.  Of course we all know about the geniuses that rent houses in SanSai....

 

64sqm can equal a comfortable, place to "live".... 32sqm is a tiny

hotel room for a weekend....Big difference in "Standard Of Living!

[Ovaltine]

Location, location, location. Hillside 3 in the Nimmenhaemen neighborhood is an older, very well managed, well built building. No pool.  Also Pansook, across the street from the Nakornping Condo in the Kad Suan Kaew shopping center area is a new building with well built units and well managed. (Nimmen is a very popular neighborhood but condos are generally pricey and the neighborhood is noisy. The neighborhood near Kad Suan Kaew across Huay Kaew Rd. is popular with foreigners who don't want to pay Nimmen prices and can be somewhat less noisy than Nimmen-- if you choose the right building and unit.) Best advice: spend time renting and living in a condo in a neighborhood you think you might like before buying.

[Thaidream]

For investment purposes only- I would never buy in Thailand. The market is too spotty and without knowing how to speak Thai there are nuances you would never become aware of.  The one poster who spoke of making the investment in America is spot on. You will get a much better return and be backed  up by an enforceable law. Thais will always tell you how their property has increased in value. When one tries to sell it- that  increase does not hold true.

[blazes]

Answer #8 is spot on.  The quick answer to the original question is quite simply: DON'T.

I have rented for each of the last nine years I have been coming to CM, and it is great to have the freedom to try something different each time, until something tickles your fancy.  I have spoken to too many expats who are stuck in their condos, totally unable to sell.  If you are over the age of 60, there is no way you would want to buy, since if your life expectancy is about 81, those 21 years will in Thailand bring you nowhere near enough return on yr investment (compared to a Western country).  And besides: return on investment is hardly going to be your biggest priority at the age of 81.

 

In brief, let others shoulder the risk.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

 

64sqm can equal a comfortable, place to "live".... 32sqm is a tiny

hotel room for a weekend....Big difference in "Standard Of Living!

but what you are missing is that the larger condos are almost always just multiples of smaller adjacent ones.  It's all about price PSM..and in most cases the smaller will have a higher PSM, and if you do buy a larger, it may be easier and more profitable to sell as smaller units.

[Tracyb]

Forget Riverside Condo in Chiang Mai.  Overpriced units there and the building is run down, poorly maintained and not aging gracefully.  Many owners are upgrading their units and the constant din of construction noise may drive you mad.  

[KhonKaenKowboy]

2 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Forget Riverside Condo in Chiang Mai.  Overpriced units there and the building is run down, poorly maintained and not aging gracefully.  Many owners are upgrading their units and the constant din of construction noise may drive you mad.  

that was one of the first pieces of real estate I ever looked at to buy in LOS, back in 2004, and I couldn't get out of there fast enough...quite a few are happy there, but....

[theguyfromanotherforum]

If anything, a shoebox room has a better chance of appreciation than a 2 bedroom.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-14916580

[elektrified]

12 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

I agree...less than 1% of Thais have that much cash available, and they would need financing for a Toyota,also...

LOL, clearly you don't know any Thai people.

[lkn]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

If anything, a shoebox room has a better chance of appreciation than a 2 bedroom.

 

What are you basing that on?

[lkn]

4 hours ago, blazes said:

[…] I have rented for each of the last nine years I have been coming to CM, and it is great to have the freedom to try something different each time […]

 

Each to his own, I guess.

 

For the first few years I also rented, but I started to accumulate more and more stuff that I had to get in/out of storage when leaving/arriving, yet there were still things I wouldn’t buy until I had my own place, for example a proper sound system or a dish washer, two things I sorely missed while renting.

 

I also found that the price of my rentals seemed to go up each time, and while researching places to live was exciting the first few times, it quickly started to feel like an unwanted chore, and after having rented a few times, I learned about the good places, but these were always rented long in advance, so it felt like I had to settle for second or third best.

 

I ended up buying something way more expensive than my original budget, but I am extremely happy with the result, this is by far the best condo I have ever lived in, and there is no way I would have been able to find a rental that comes even close to what I have, as everything has been tailored specifically to my needs.

[peergin]

Chiangmainewbie,

Your message set me thinking. I own a condo in Chiangmai which has been empty for a while. I don’t live there anymore so I might as well sell it. The details are:

Building: a clean and beautiful building, 13 floors, 2 lifts in excellent condition with regular professional maintenance, a few shops including 2 laundry shops (one self-service, the other run by a lady) and a small convenience store on the ground floor (food, drinks, newspapers, etc.).

Location: good, and convenient area: Irrigation Canal Rd (Chonpratan Rd) a 100 m from Huay Kaew Rd.

Condo: 1 living room + 1 bedroom + 1 bathroom, a large 67 sq. m., 7th floor, fully furnished including a large fridge, gas stove/oven, washing machine, microwave, tv, air cons, hot water (kitchen + bathroom) etc., very adequate built-in storage space.

Management: earlier the owners cooperated in throwing the original management out; the new very caring management consists of owners only, it has been doing a fantastic job during the past 5 years or so; this has resulted in reasonable management fees and no more corruption; the building has been restored to its former glory; there are regular owners’ meetings where every owner has a vote; management sees to it that there are no problems with neighbours, loud noise or other disturbances; important: there is NO backlog in management fees!

Swimming pool: clean and well maintained, free.

Gym: free.

Occupants: university students (CMU), a few business people and some foreigners; no backpackers etc. because the rents are not cheap.

Security: 24/7 guards (there are always 2 guards on duty at the same time), key card entry.

Price: the price you mentioned is acceptable, no agent’s fees.

Please P M me if you want to know more.