Brexit: High Court judges to give legal verdict

[Laughing Gravy]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because it isn't a fact. Get the difference between fact and falshehood? And why would anyone care about that particular sentence and what authority would it have had it not been attributed to Mark Twain?

If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. Said by Laughing Gravy.  Happy now. A fact I have just said it.

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. Said by Laughing Gravy.  Happy now. A fact I have just said it.

It's a fact that you have now said it. Since it's not a provable assertion, that's all that it is.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's a fact that you have now said it. Since it's not a provable assertion, that's all that it is.

Its a fact I have said it yes. Although there is a lot of evidence that Mark Twain said it. But I am sure you will argue in your usual self, that it has never been said by him or anyone else, to keep un the true style that your present yourself.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Its a fact I have said it yes. Although there is a lot of evidence that Mark Twain said it. But I am sure you will argue in your usual self, that it has never been said by him or anyone else, to keep un the true style that your present yourself.

Well, I always appreciate being educated.  Can you offer some of that evidence?  Since there is "a lot of evidence that Mark Twain said it", I'm sure you'll have no trouble producing it.

[stevenl]

41 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Another important act and point is what is important to one voter is different to another. When we have a referendum or vote in elections we can never exactly know what will happen. We supposedly trust and put our faith in MP's who are meant to work on our behalf. I think we all know that last statement is tosh and they generally work on their own behalf.

 

Now I would be very interested to see if the MPs vote in favour of their constituents majourity in the referendum if it foes to parliament (still unsure on that). I know this won't happen as I am sure you will get the I am supporting the party line. Something all Labour MP's will do no doubt, even though many of the boroughs voted out in the referendum and have labour MP's in power.

Try to understand the difference between 'working on our behalf' and 'doing as I wish'.

[Laughing Gravy]

15 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, I always appreciate being educated.  Can you offer some of that evidence?  Since there is "a lot of evidence that Mark Twain said it", I'm sure you'll have no trouble producing it.

Just type it into a search engine you will get countless websites and articles that state it. The last time you asked to be educated, I sent you 6 links and then you said the first link was from a so called conspiracy site the next one you ridiculed and then you said you stopped reading.

So much for want to be educated!  What you really mean is you want to be educated, as long as it agrees with your mindset.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Try to understand the difference between 'working on our behalf' and 'doing as I wish'

I fully understand steven. I agree, they do as they wish. That is the sad reality of politics.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I fully understand steven. I agree, they do as they wish. That is the sad reality of politics.

If you understand, why are you confusing them? Either you're trolling, or you don't understand that there is more to government than simply doing what 'the people' want.

And you clearly don't agree with me, you agreeing with me would be really scary.

Edited November 6, 2016 by stevenl

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Just type it into a search engine you will get countless websites and articles that state it. The last time you asked to be educated, I sent you 6 links and then you said the first link was from a so called conspiracy site the next one you ridiculed and then you said you stopped reading.

So much for want to be educated!  What you really mean is you want to be educated, as long as it agrees with your mindset.

Oh, I see, So many different websites  say so therefore it must be true. In other words, you got nothing. No citations that actually demonstrate that Twain said this. Visited any Macedonian websites lately?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo?utm_term=.jw3DADp7M#.gjNKDKaqj

http://www.dw.com/en/how-donald-trump-is-making-money-for-macedonias-internet-entrepreneurs/a-36257903

[Laughing Gravy]

12 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Oh, I see, So many different websites  say so therefore it must be true. In other words, you got nothing. No citations that actually demonstrate that Twain said this. Visited any Macedonian websites lately?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo?utm_term=.jw3DADp7M#.gjNKDKaqj

http://www.dw.com/en/how-donald-trump-is-making-money-for-macedonias-internet-entrepreneurs/a-36257903

I will say that websites are unregulated but you asked where does it say that Mark Twain had said it. So you now admit that many have. Well that's some education for you. I could rubbish your claims on the websites quoted but won't stoop to your level. You could argue then the only real way, was is to ask the man himself but he is dead. So that's the end of the matter.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

I will say that websites are unregulated but you asked where does it say that Mark Twain had said it. So you now admit that many have. Well that's some education for you. I could rubbish your claims on the websites quoted but won't stoop to your level. You could argue then the only real way, was is to ask the man himself but he is dead. So that's the end of the matter.

I didn't ask where does it say that Mark Twain had said it. I asked for evidence.  But I suppose you have a point. I should have asked for valid evidence. What you provided is something called invalid evidence. Still, if the fact that lots of websites are saying it constitutes valid evidence in your mind, here are lots of other facts you might be interested to learn:

http://www.factcheck.org/hot-topics/

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

I didn't ask where does it say that Mark Twain had said it. I asked for evidence.  But I suppose you have a point. I should have asked for valid evidence. What you provided is something called invalid evidence. Still, if the fact that lots of websites are saying it constitutes valid evidence in your mind, here are lots of other facts you might be interested to learn:

http://www.factcheck.org/hot-topics/

 

I certainly understand the value and credibility of websites. Hell I could quote you from a forum. As I have said research and evidence is always under scrutiny. As I have said the point is finished for me.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.

 

[jpinx]

UK joined the Common Market in 1972 and once in, were stuck with how it morphed into the mess it is now.  UK and other significant minorities in EU have seen what's happened and in UK's case, managed to have a huge "opinion poll" which came down in favour of getting out of the mess.  The fact that the opinion poll was ordered, organised and promoted by the government gave EVERYONE some certainty that the result would be acted on.  Sadly, the organisers didn't like the result and jumped ship, but the result can not be denied -- having been selected by more people than the current government.   The indications are that most people who voted in the referendum expected something to happen as soon as the result was confirmed.  The government didn't have the collective balls to go through with it, and now the sharks are circling and feasting off the dying corpse of UK's democratic wishes.

[Laughing Gravy]

40 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If you understand, why are you confusing them? Either you're trolling, or you don't understand that there is more to government than simply doing what 'the people' want.

Trolling, you are being ridiculous. Look up what trolling means.

Below is what they should be doing. I agree the job is complex but as I have mentioned the role of the MP is to represent their constituents. My point is many don't.

 

Once elected, the job of an MP is to represent the people of his or her constituency (constituents) in Parliament, whether or not they voted for him or her. You only have one MP so even if you voted for one of the other candidates and you disagree with the views of your MPs party, your MP is still there to help you with all matters for which Parliament or central government is responsible

 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/YouandyourMP.htm

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, jpinx said:

The fact that the opinion poll was ordered, organised and promoted by the government gave EVERYONE some certainty that the result would be acted on.  Sadly, the organisers didn't like the result and jumped ship, but the result can not be denied -- having been selected by more people than the current government.   The indications are that most people who voted in the referendum expected something to happen as soon as the result was confirmed.  The government didn't have the collective balls to go through with it, and now the sharks are circling and feasting off the dying corpse of UK's democratic wishes.

 So eloquently put from the 'common persons perspective. Common as the average person. who voted in a definite and clear referendum. In or out. can't get as simple as that. Not in or out with 20 conditions. It was in or out. The people voted out. I wish that those who are continually trying to disrupt the outcome ,would respect the outcome, as there is nothing worse than a sore loser and is showing the total disregard for democracy.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 So eloquently put from the 'common persons perspective. Common as the average person. who voted in a definite and clear referendum. In or out. can't get as simple as that. Not in or out with 20 conditions. It was in or out. The people voted out. I wish that those who are continually trying to disrupt the outcome ,would respect the outcome, as there is nothing worse than a sore loser and is showing the total disregard for democracy.

is it democratic to ignore the wish of 48% of the population ?

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

is it democratic to ignore the wish of 48% of the population ?

probably not as much as ignoring the wishes of 52% ?

Edited November 6, 2016 by vogie

[stevenl]

Trolling, you are being ridiculous. Look up what trolling means.
Below is what they should be doing. I agree the job is complex but as I have mentioned the role of the MP is to represent their constituents. My point is many don't.
 
Once elected, the job of an MP is to represent the people of his or her constituency (constituents) in Parliament, whether or not they voted for him or her. You only have one MP so even if you voted for one of the other candidates and you disagree with the views of your MPs party, your MP is still there to help you with all matters for which Parliament or central government is responsible
 
http://www.ukpolitical.info/YouandyourMP.htm

Nothing to do with my point. Again, representing does not mean do as they say they want. It means acting in their best interest.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nothing to do with my point. Again, representing does not mean do as they say they want. It means acting in their best interest.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Define "best interests"   --  if you dare

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where is the evidence that voters didn't have a clue about the ramifications about the Brexit. It is impossible to judge as it hasn't happened. yet.  One thing that is for certain is the reason we joined the European Common Market at the time, is not what it is now. In fact nothing like it is. That is certainly not what the voters expected. Also all the treaties that were pushed through to make the EU what it is today, people didn't expect that.

 

There was a list of 50 actual reasons stated for voting out. All of them bonkers.

 

You see voxpop interviews and hear the most ridiculous drivel

 

Recent opinion polls say there is no longer a majority

 

plenty of posts on TV over several months show that many Brexiteers have incorrect ideas about how the EU actually works

 

I could go on and on

[Khun Han]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

There was a list of 50 actual reasons stated for voting out. All of them bonkers.

 

You see voxpop interviews and hear the most ridiculous drivel

 

Recent opinion polls say there is no longer a majority

 

plenty of posts on TV over several months show that many Brexiteers have incorrect ideas about how the EU actually works

 

I could go on and on

 

They do like to cling to their 'brexiters are thick' comfort blanket, don't they?

 

By the way, he forgot to mention that the latest opinion polls also show even less support for remain than previously. I'm sure it was an oversight.

[ilostmypassword]

49 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 

Define "best interests"   --  if you dare

It's always going to be a judgement call so their isn't going to be an objective standard. 

[jpinx]

40 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

There was a list of 50 actual reasons stated for voting out. All of them bonkers.

 

You see voxpop interviews and hear the most ridiculous drivel

 

Recent opinion polls say there is no longer a majority

 

plenty of posts on TV over several months show that many Brexiteers have incorrect ideas about how the EU actually works

 

I could go on and on

 

The latest polls (referendums?) seem to say that exit is more strongly favoured than before the "official" referendum.  Does this not indicate the realisation by many people of the bullying tactics of the EU?

 

 

 

[jpinx]

Several of us appear to be doing the "topic dance" between this and another thread.  Could we centralise?

[jpinx]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's always going to be a judgement call so their isn't going to be an objective standard. 

 

So an MP's "representation" of his constituents is no obligation, or am I missing something?

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 

So an MP's "representation" of his constituents is no obligation, or am I missing something?

As for representation, it doesn't mean being a cipher. If direct unmediated democracy is what you want, technology should now make that doable. Anyway, presumably if constituents are unhappy with their MP, I believe that they can eventually vote him or her out.

[ilostmypassword]

 

38 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 

So an MP's "representation" of his constituents is no obligation, or am I missing something?

Anyway, I believe that there were several districts which were represented by conservative mps yet the majority of their constituents voted against brexit. Of course, that would include labor voters and other rifraff including many conservatives. Don't they have a right to be represented by their MPs. Or is it only a majority of the people who voted for the MPs who have that right?

Edited November 6, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[kevkev1888]

Grouse you surely will " go on and on", repeating yourself ad nauseam, whilst insulting all who voted leave!!!

Luckily no one is listening anymore :) 

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Anyway, I believe that there were several districts which were represented by conservative mps yet the majority of their constituents voted against brexit. Of course, that would include labor voters and other rifraff including many conservatives. Don't they have a right to be represented by their MPs. Or is it only a majority of the people who voted for the MPs who have that right?

"riffraff" are as much entitled to representation as anyone, but what's at stake is the consensus of opinion of all the constituents.