Pronouncing the letter "r"

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas it is FARANG not FALANG      

This typo is a result of a standing joke between me and my wife, concerning her pronunciation. We've had quite a few interesting experiences as a result of her inability to get her tongue around the English "r". The most recent was when our neighbours refused to eat my wife's "sticky lice", convinced that it was indeed what it sounded like.

This charming Thai difficulty is even more pronounced when she speaks Danish. Danish has an "r" sound that is half-way between an English "r" and a French "r", which creates difficulties even for an Englishman who has worked in Denmark for 20 years!

I wonder, does anyone have any experiences, tips or exercises, to improve this pronunciation (only for English - I accept that Danish is perhaps too esoteric, for even this forum)?

[wolf5370]

I used to have great fun with my wife (she's wise to it now, and her propnounciation has improved a lot over the years too) getting her to say certain words. 'Grill' is a good one - used to come out something like 'gluar' - not even close!

Now she just laughs at my Thai - when I ask for a clean tiger (instead of shirt) or point out someone riding a dog (instead of horse) - etc, etc, etc...

Wolf :laugh:

[Brian]

My ex-gf had a lot of trouble withthe word laundry. When she first told me wanted to do "lolley" I didn't have a clue what she was talking about until we were both standing in front of the washing machine.

[cbatson]

Thomas,

Explain to her and have her watch your tongue and shape of your mouth as you say "err" or "red."  In particular, the tongue should not touch the roof of the mouth, but should be curved slightly upwards.  The mouth will take a shape similar to pronouncing the end of the vowel "o," but not as pronounced.  Be sure she understands it's different from "raw reua."  Also, there's computer software available that will listen to a speaker's pronunciation and compare it with the pronunciation of a native speaker's.  Practice as many times as is necessary, the computer will never get bored or frustrated!

Chuck

[MaiChai]

The r/l problem is a habit picked up in the Thai language and passed onto the new language the person is learning. Let me explain: a Thai word will be spelt using the lor reua à Thai character. If a person is speaking properly/formally the word will be pronounced using the rolling 'r' sound as in reua for boat. However, if the person is speaking informally/colloquially, the 'r' sound is said with an 'l' sound, giving leua. Not sure whay this exists in Thai, other than through laziness and not wishing to roll the 'r'. Also seems a problem with other Asian languages. Maybe it has something to do with the shape of a Thai/Asian mouth, or the sound is difficult to say while at the same time smiling?  

[Brian]

Nothing to do with the shape of their mouth, if they grow up in a western country they don't suffer the same "pomplem"..

[stevebkk]

Why is / r / banned in Lao?

I guessed that r-l pronunciation is regarded as class distinction so r had to go?

Doesn't help with minimal pairs of the rice-lice kind.

[caughtintheact]

Is the question as related to Laos (and Isarn) that the "r" had to go, or was it ever ther?.  There is no letter sounding "r" in the Isarn dictionaries I've seen.

[MaiChai]

Isarn dictionary; I've never heard of these. OK, the official language up there is Thai, with Lao words used instead of the Thai ones (sep-ee-lee instead of gairng to me mean good/great, etc).

[caughtintheact]

I have a Thai-English-Isarn dictionary.  Picked it up at Asia Books or DK some years ago.  Cost about B1500 at the time, but that was at 25:1.

While the official language of Thailand is central Thai, the used languages in most of Isarn include Lao, Khmer and a few other minor dialects. I think that it can be safely said that the spoken language is Lao with Thai words thrown in, and is known as Bhasa Isarn.  But ask anyone from Isarn and they will say that they either speak Isarn or Lao, because they are originally from Laos. Being ethnic Lao is one reason that Isarn is usually on the short end of the national budgets.

[MaiChai]

Yeah, Thais are really racist to Lao people (and thus people from Isan). My wife says all farangs who try and learn Thai sound like they are speaking Lao; we just can't sound Thai enough. Anyway, she also implies that we sound terrible speaking Thai (Lao) and its an embaresment to her. I can read and write Thai, and thus understand how words should be spoke; its just that I can't sound Thai enough and end up sounding like a person from Laos. Even some farang bloke on that Thai soap opera about the look kreung from New York sounds Lao.

[caughtintheact]

That's interesting.  The Thai always tell me that a farang speaking Thai sounds Chinese.

[wolf5370]

No different from anyone else really. German English speakers, however fluent, still hold a German accent. Even if you learnt both languages from birth, the fact is that unless you lived equally in both countries (i.e. back and fourth, as opposed to 4 years here, 4 years there) and are therefore surrounded by the language from an early age, then you will vear towards the accent you heard most.

I have an old schoold friend who is Thai. He moved to the UK at age 6 and learnt English as he went along at school. His parents and siblings (both older and younger) all speak Thai at home. His parent owned a mini-market and a Thai restaurant and was therefore surrounded by Thai people (waitresses etc) much of the time. However, he lived in the UK. He still is in the restauraunt trade - owns his own now, I used to own one with him too once upon a time - and when he goes to Thailand, they spot him as foreign as soon as he opens his mouth; he just can't sound Thai enough!

[stevebkk]

Khmer speakers from Isaan

I only know one, from south of Sri Saket, and he says the / r / sound and claims he speak Isaan.  (Doesn't like to call it 'Lao')

[sevinnow]

My G/F had me in confusion for ages every time she saw a farang in black socks and the "beer belie" she used to say look a "yellow man" although no chinese man in sight....with politeness I simply laughed and agreed.

Then 3 months later I realised the "yellow man" with the customery black socks and beer bellie was in fact.....

A GERMAN MAN.....the "g" comes out as a "y"...I fell off my stool with laughter...now it's astanding joke with us.

Sev