Sterilization Of Stray Dogs In Pattaya

[wilko]

topo - So what do think the Pattaya dogs eat?!?!?!?!

ZZZ - you have clearly been living up to your name and have slept through the entire posting......

[Gary A]

I live in Loei province not too far from the big river and Laos. There is a truck that makes regular rounds in our village. We call it the bucket truck. It is called the bucket truck because for every dog you provide they give you a plastic bucket. Many of the local Thais are horrified because the dogs are taken to Laos, butchered and sold for food but it is accepted that the bucket truck does keep the stray dogs thinned out and is considered a service.

[pumpuiman]

I live in Loei province not too far from the big river and Laos. There is a truck that makes regular rounds in our village. We call it the bucket truck. It is called the bucket truck because for every dog you provide they give you a plastic bucket. Many of the local Thais are horrified because the dogs are taken to Laos, butchered and sold for food but it is accepted that the bucket truck does keep the stray dogs thinned out and is considered a service.

What do you think might replace the "bucket reward" in Pattaya ? Get the ex-pats involved and offer free drink coupons ?

[icecubes]

I live in Loei province not too far from the big river and Laos. There is a truck that makes regular rounds in our village. We call it the bucket truck. It is called the bucket truck because for every dog you provide they give you a plastic bucket. Many of the local Thais are horrified because the dogs are taken to Laos, butchered and sold for food but it is accepted that the bucket truck does keep the stray dogs thinned out and is considered a service.

What do you think might replace the "bucket reward" in Pattaya ? Get the ex-pats involved and offer free drink coupons ?

How about a free shag on city hall.

what you think?

Or even a free bucket plus a washing line for condo owners.

[ChangMaiSausage]

QUOTE(Weho @ 2006-12-04 10:02:36)

I thought it was some Buddhist thing that they couldn't simply kill or even steralize dogs here...?{

Is this also applicable to the Thai women? note not the kill part I meant steralization

[Ulysses G.]

I live in Loei province not too far from the big river and Laos. There is a truck that makes regular rounds in our village. We call it the bucket truck. It is called the bucket truck because for every dog you provide they give you a plastic bucket. Many of the local Thais are horrified because the dogs are taken to Laos, butchered and sold for food but it is accepted that the bucket truck does keep the stray dogs thinned out and is considered a service.

Savages!

[Gary A]

I don't mind the bucket truck so much. I do have a problem with the dog farms. They raise these little light colored dogs for just food. The dogs are all about the same size and are put in cages and hauled across the border. It appears that the little yellow young dogs are considered the most delicious. I doubt that these little dogs are more than 20 pounds in weight. I was told that Bangkok dogs are considered dirty and that only the up country dogs are fit to eat.

Rats are also a food source. Rice rats are considered delicious but city rats are not fit to eat.

[tropo]

topo - So what do think the Pattaya dogs eat?!?!?!?!

ZZZ - you have clearly been living up to your name and have slept through the entire posting......

You are clearly the sleeper here. You should go back and read my assessment of the Indian stray dog research. It's clear that you didn't bother to read the original research either.

It's the quantity of rubbish here compared to Indian cities that makes the difference. The stray dog problem in Pattaya can easily be taken care of with full time dog catchers as the stray dog population is not nearly as high as in the Indian cities where this research was done.

Anyway Wolko, go back to sleep.

[tropo]

I live in Loei province not too far from the big river and Laos. There is a truck that makes regular rounds in our village. We call it the bucket truck. It is called the bucket truck because for every dog you provide they give you a plastic bucket. Many of the local Thais are horrified because the dogs are taken to Laos, butchered and sold for food but it is accepted that the bucket truck does keep the stray dogs thinned out and is considered a service.

What a great idea. If they put a small bounty on stray dogs they'd save money. It would be a lot cheaper than paying a dog catcher.

[rocky]

I did read the info you posted, very informative.

If this was put into practice here there would still be stray dogs barking at and attacking tourists,

This is an international tourist city and should behave is such a manner.

I am not debating strongly against your suggestions, just voicing an opinion.

This statement is contrary to the information I have read.

Which part ?

Stray dogs bark and attack tourists

Pattaya is an international city

International cities normally do not have massive stray dog problems ?

[tuffy]

the best way to deal with this problem by all means is to see who can come up with the goofiest reply so instead of actually DOING something lets get Dr. Seuss on it...green eggs and... holysh*t that's good dog meat.... or .....Are you my mother ? (or were you previously sterilized by the pattaya secret police...)

I suggested earlier that we actually do something instead of just whine about the existing problem.....or maybe funny is more fullfilling for everyone here?

Edited December 5, 2006 by tuffy

[pumpuiman]

I did read the info you posted, very informative.

If this was put into practice here there would still be stray dogs barking at and attacking tourists,

This is an international tourist city and should behave is such a manner.

I am not debating strongly against your suggestions, just voicing an opinion.

This statement is contrary to the information I have read.

Which part ?

Stray dogs bark and attack tourists

Pattaya is an international city

International cities normally do not have massive stray dog problems ?

"Please remember, there is NO overnight solution to the stray dog issue. It is simply not possible to wish all the dogs away. With sterilisation, the population becomes stable, non-breeding and non-rabid and decreases over time. It also becomes largely non-aggressive. On the other hand, when dogs are removed or killed, new dogs keep entering an area and the population is continuously changing, unstable, aggressive, multiplies at a high rate and carries rabies. Which method makes more sense?"

Here is one of the quotes I was referencing.

[pumpuiman]

TSCWA Projects > Stray Dogs Support Project

Thailand is home to a huge population of stray dogs, the result of a culture that doesn't accept euthanasia and lacklustre government efforts to control numbers by neutering programs. More accurately described as community dogs rather than strays because people feed and offer shelter to most dogs, our society treats and neuters in an effort to improve levels of welfare.

This project began at the captive bear centre in Banglamung district of Cholburi province following il-conceived efforts to house large numbers of stray dogs in caged enclosures that led to massive mortality and disease transfer issues. We expanded this work to a neutering and treatment project in the nearby tourist city of Pattaya and then to other locations where work with stray dogs is both desperately needed and enthusiastically embraced by local community leaders. Stray dogs have also been trained to work alongside rangers in forest protection duties and to detect smuggled wildlife at airports while building local support in rural communities also helps us educate people on animal welfare issues and the need to better protect forests from exploitation.

Stray dog support activities continue in Cholburi where we have a fully-equipped clinic adjoining our Wild Animal Quarantine Centre and around several Wildlife Centres operated by the Department of National Parks, Wildlife & Plant Conservation. Other locations include areas surrounding our Mae Hong Son Wild Animal Rescue Centre where we work in 13 remote villages and in communities bordering the wildlife sanctuary chosen for our Black Bear Reintroduction project in the eastern province of Chanthaburi. Population control and treatment is also offered to stray dogs in the area surrounding our Bangkok education centre.

[Paully900]

I don't think you realise quite how many dogs are in Pattaya. Cleen up the rubbish and you reduce the food supply, culling won't work....it's been shown in many places.

The airport you mention may shoot dogs on the runway for safety reasons, but they stil get more dogs don't they?

Cleening the rubbish seem to be a much bigger problem then reducing street dog population.

If people do not care rubbish just multiply faster then street dogs. And when there are no more street dogs around (just imagine) rats will come to the place.

[wilko]

topo - So what do think the Pattaya dogs eat?!?!?!?!

ZZZ - you have clearly been living up to your name and have slept through the entire posting......

You are clearly the sleeper here. You should go back and read my assessment of the Indian stray dog research. It's clear that you didn't bother to read the original research either.

It's the quantity of rubbish here compared to Indian cities that makes the difference. The stray dog problem in Pattaya can easily be taken care of with full time dog catchers as the stray dog population is not nearly as high as in the Indian cities where this research was done.

Anyway Wolko, go back to sleep.

Idid ...it was crap.

Why don't you go and post on blithering idiots dot com...it's much more suited to your type of deduction....

[COBBER]

All of this "Why dont the authorities do this" stuff is just pie in the sky clap trap.

Nothing will be done by the authorities unless there is a massive rabies outbreak or tourists are seriously injured by dog attacks and it makes the headlines overseas.

If either of these happen there will be a quick fix , followed by a "we sorted the problem" publicity campaign and then after a few months it will be back to the way it was before.

[pumpuiman]

All of this "Why dont the authorities do this" stuff is just pie in the sky clap trap.

Nothing will be done by the authorities unless there is a massive rabies outbreak or tourists are seriously injured by dog attacks and it makes the headlines overseas.

If either of these happen there will be a quick fix , followed by a "we sorted the problem" publicity campaign and then after a few months it will be back to the way it was before.

I agree, I think the best thing to do would be to create a trust from local donations. Money would be used only in a specific area over a long term. Only spending the interest per month on an ever growing capital.

An organized effort by business owners in Pattaya at fund raising would be great. One could offer a tourist something for their donation (possibly selling "Soi dog" T-shirts for example) as opposed to just asking for money.

Getting schools and community groups involved as well. I think it would be possible....if you decided on a particular area, and not try to tackle the counries problem as a whole.

[tropo]

Idid ...it was crap.

Why don't you go and post on blithering idiots dot com...it's much more suited to your type of deduction....

You exclusively post "<deleted>". How about you try posting on retards dot com...they accept all people with IQ's under 50, so you'd be in good company.

[wilko]

Tripo - can't you at least come up with some invective of your own?

You certainly can't come up with a valid opinion....

[tropo]

Tripo - can't you at least come up with some invective of your own?

You certainly can't come up with a valid opinion....

Wolko, why don't you go and find something else to do with your spare time. Your one liners are not opinions, but just "<deleted>". Go and find your "blithering idiots dot com" site and knock yourself out.

Edited December 7, 2006 by tropo

[pumpuiman]

TSCWA Projects > Stray Dogs Support Project

This project began at the captive bear centre in Banglamung district of Cholburi province following il-conceived efforts to house large numbers of stray dogs in caged enclosures that led to massive mortality and disease transfer issues. We expanded this work to a neutering and treatment project in the nearby tourist city of Pattaya

Is anyone aware of any programs currently being conducted by TSCWA in Pattaya?

[November Rain]

Thank you so much, pumpuiman for presenting the studies on this thread. There are so many anti-dog threads on this forum & I don't usually bother contributing because you cannot reason with people who have such vitriol, hatred & bile. Even here, where you have presented the well-researched fact by eminent bodies such as WHO, there are still people who are either unable to comprehend what has been written, or haven't bothered to read it, or maybe are just so blinkered that they discount any view that doesn't match their own.

Sterilisation is the only proven method of population control. It does stop a lot of the aggression problems, because of the reasons mentioned in your first post. It also prevents many cancers & other diseases in dogs.

IMO, all dogs (owned or stray) should be neutered, unless the owner has acquired a licence to breed them and that should be monitored. Instead of wasting money in sweeping the streets for strays & keeping them in a pound; neuter, vaccination & release programmes should be instituted. Of course, dogs proven to be aggressive should be removed for public safety, but the rest should be returned to their territory.

We did a neuter clinic, sponsored by Soi Dog Rescue last year. It was a Thailand wide initiative. We neutered (in our clinic) 42 dogs over 2 days, from streets & temples. We worked out (using the pyramid effect) that over the next 3 years we might have stopped 29,000 dogs being born. Now imagine if virtually every dog were neutered...

[Basil B]

Many of the dogs I have seen in Pattaya and Jomtien appear to be strays and certainly not looked after.

• Many have skin diseases with loose of hair and sores all over their bodies.
  
• Many are hobbling around with untreated fractured limbs.
  
• Many bitches are showing the effects of being a factory for making puppies, with untreated infections of the breasts, under belies scrapping the floor as they walk and internal organs hanging out of their backsides.
  

Many of these dogs are suffering and neutering them will not help, they need costly veterinary treatment and for some them the kindest solution is euthanasia, in the UK if you were to keep an animal in need of treatment like many of these dogs, you would be prosecuted big time…

For Thailand the answer is simple; all dogs must be registered, i.e. a named person is responsible for them, else they are deemed to be strays.

In registering a dog, the dog should be chipped, preferably neutering, have a collar with a name tag and owner details.

Then Pattaya needs full time Dog Wardens, not dog collectors who are employed on a temporary basis when the political pressure gets hot.

If a dog has no chip or is in need of veterinary care then the Dog Wardens should impound the animal where appropriate action would be taken.

The other solution…

is to obtain a megaphone and go around shouting “RABIES” that will shore solve the problem.

BB

[Robski]

Ok I posted this before in the other thread about dog attacks,. the point is it is foreigners that are concerned in this forum with the dog problem and in some cases are looking at a solution in a western way (which really would be nice), but how do Thais view this situation?

I agree that they should be controlled. Apart from health hazards it says a lot about the quality of this society.

Stupid question though; what do soi dogs eat, food refuse? cats and rats? or do the Thai's feed them?

Ok theres a lot of food refuse, but I don't see many rats, I have seen Thai stall owners leave bones etc for the dogs.

The Thai's don't seem that bothered by them, maybe they see the dogs as a service to them, standing guard, getting rid of refuse and waste and keeping the rat population down.

That is how mans' relationship with dogs started after all.

What would be the effect of getting rid of them all?

Edited January 6, 2007 by Robski

[Little Black Duck]

Ok I posted this before in the other thread about dog attacks,. the point is it is foreigners that are concerned in this forum with the dog problem and in some cases are looking at a solution in a western way (which really would be nice), but how do Thais view this situation?

I agree that they should be controlled. Apart from health hazards it says a lot about the quality of this society.

Stupid question though; what do soi dogs eat, food refuse? cats and rats? or do the Thai's feed them?

Ok theres a lot of food refuse, but I don't see many rats, I have seen Thai stall owners leave bones etc for the dogs.

The Thai's don't seem that bothered by them, maybe they see the dogs as a service to them, standing guard, getting rid of refuse and waste and keeping the rat population down.

That is how mans' relationship with dogs started after all.

What would be the effect of getting rid of them all?

Robski..You might not like my jokes but I think you make a lot of sense..

Good to see one Farand(I hate that word) showing common sense..10/10..LBD

[ZZZ]

Having studied the links in the many different threads on this subject I think that what they have done in Hua Hin seems to be the best solution.

http://www.thailand-huahin.com/news/thaila...hin-news-56.htm

The problem in Pattaya is most likely much bigger in Pattaya than in Hua Hin as Pattaya is much larger but the same thing could be done here if there was a committed effort by the local government.

Some steps to take:

1. Get the local government aware of the problem and involved in the solution.

2. Decide on the area to be covered. This area must be large enough to slow down migration from other areas but not to large to make it manageable.

3. Survey how many stray dogs are in the area and where.

4. Work out a budget, get government economical commitment. Get commitments from NGO’s

5. Build a dog pond on remote government land to be able to house at least a third of the number of surveyed stray dogs. Coordinate with already established shelters.

6. Conduct a big round up stray dogs to fill the pound. Continue the round up as more space is available in the pound.

7. Examine dogs in the pound. Put down all strays with severe mental or physical disabilities. Treat, neuter and vaccinate all remaining dogs.

8. Keep treated dogs in the pound and organize adoption drives for these dogs.

9. Adopt local regulations that will require all dog owners to register their pets at the municipality office and to have a microchip surgically implanted under their pet's skin. Owners will be responsible for their dogs and dog dumpers will be punished by law. Registration should be free to make it easier to make people to comply.

10. Organize free neutering service for all domestic dogs.

11. Keep up the work. Adjust the seize of the dog pound as needed. Transfer knowledge and help to neighboring municipalities.

Most important is to educate the population and make sure everyone understand that what is done is in the best interest of both dogs and the population in general.

The stray dog problem is cruel for both dogs and people. All dogs should have a home and someone to take care of them and people should be able to walk around on public property without fearing for their life.

The Hua Hin case:

They have about 1300 dogs in a shelter that could hold 2000 dogs. They have caught about 90% of the dogs since starting 2002. The shelter employs 10 care takers. The monthly cost is about 150,000Bath.

Kasetsart University 's Faculty of Veterinary Science regularly dispatches teams of veterinarians to vaccinate dogs.

Initially they caught 300 dogs per month; this is now down to 30 per month.

The start up capital of 4milj Bath was donated by His Majesty the King.

Even if the Pattaya problem is 10 times that of Hua Hin it could easily be paid for by a sum that is less than the local government is spending on one of the many statues or welcome to Pattaya signboards they are budgeting for.

So if anyone has some free time on his hands, just get it going.

[Robski]

The stray dog problem is cruel for both dogs and people. All dogs should have a home and someone to take care of them and people should be able to walk around on public property without fearing for their life.

They are feral dogs, they don't need a home or love for that matter and some Thais see them as a help rather than a hinderance.

[November Rain]

Having studied the links in the many different threads on this subject I think that what they have done in Hua Hin seems to be the best solution.

http://www.thailand-huahin.com/news/thaila...hin-news-56.htm

The problem in Pattaya is most likely much bigger in Pattaya than in Hua Hin as Pattaya is much larger but the same thing could be done here if there was a committed effort by the local government.

Some steps to take:

1. Get the local government aware of the problem and involved in the solution.

2. Decide on the area to be covered. This area must be large enough to slow down migration from other areas but not to large to make it manageable.

3. Survey how many stray dogs are in the area and where.

4. Work out a budget, get government economical commitment. Get commitments from NGO’s

5. Build a dog pond on remote government land to be able to house at least a third of the number of surveyed stray dogs. Coordinate with already established shelters.

6. Conduct a big round up stray dogs to fill the pound. Continue the round up as more space is available in the pound.

7. Examine dogs in the pound. Put down all strays with severe mental or physical disabilities. Treat, neuter and vaccinate all remaining dogs.

8. Keep treated dogs in the pound and organize adoption drives for these dogs.

9. Adopt local regulations that will require all dog owners to register their pets at the municipality office and to have a microchip surgically implanted under their pet's skin. Owners will be responsible for their dogs and dog dumpers will be punished by law. Registration should be free to make it easier to make people to comply.

10. Organize free neutering service for all domestic dogs.

11. Keep up the work. Adjust the seize of the dog pound as needed. Transfer knowledge and help to neighboring municipalities.

Most important is to educate the population and make sure everyone understand that what is done is in the best interest of both dogs and the population in general.

The stray dog problem is cruel for both dogs and people. All dogs should have a home and someone to take care of them and people should be able to walk around on public property without fearing for their life.

The Hua Hin case:

They have about 1300 dogs in a shelter that could hold 2000 dogs. They have caught about 90% of the dogs since starting 2002. The shelter employs 10 care takers. The monthly cost is about 150,000Bath.

Kasetsart University 's Faculty of Veterinary Science regularly dispatches teams of veterinarians to vaccinate dogs.

Initially they caught 300 dogs per month; this is now down to 30 per month.

The start up capital of 4milj Bath was donated by His Majesty the King.

Even if the Pattaya problem is 10 times that of Hua Hin it could easily be paid for by a sum that is less than the local government is spending on one of the many statues or welcome to Pattaya signboards they are budgeting for.

So if anyone has some free time on his hands, just get it going.

OMG! I just read the link you provided & laughed out loud! It was so far from the truth it is hilarious! For a start HH is nowhere near stray free. The temples, streets & beaches have as many strays as anywhere else in LoS. Tourist areas are periodically cleared, but that's it! As for the description of the shelter, also not factual. Obviously, you reported this in good faith, but I can assure you, this article is not indicative of how things truly stand here at the moment...

[ZZZ]

OMG! I just read the link you provided & laughed out loud! It was so far from the truth it is hilarious! For a start HH is nowhere near stray free. The temples, streets & beaches have as many strays as anywhere else in LoS. Tourist areas are periodically cleared, but that's it! As for the description of the shelter, also not factual. Obviously, you reported this in good faith, but I can assure you, this article is not indicative of how things truly stand here at the moment...

Thanks for the feedback on whats happening in Hua Hin, thought the article sounded a bit to good

Anyway, I still believe in the approach they took. The main problem, as allways in Thailand, is that the concept of maintenance and follow-up do not exist here.

You can never fix this problem over night, it will take a few years and requires total dedication to the solution. Give it a moments rest and the dogs will have multiplied and you are back to status quo.

[November Rain]

The approach stated is more idealistic than truthful. I'm sorry, I'm not willing to say more on a public forum, as it could jeapordise what I'm doing, but I am in a position to know what I'm talking about. If anyone is genuinely interested, I'll answer pm's.