Cost of living in Thailand

[anotheruser]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

$4000 a month breakdown for Hawaii

rent $2500 per month

license fees for two vehicles $80 per month

Gasoline for two vehicles $250 per month

Utilities $200 per month

food $600 per month

Health insurance $220 per month

Eating out $200 per month (three times)

Cable TV, Phone, Internet $160

Cell phones (3 with data plans) $220

 

That works out to $4430 (150.620 baht per month) and does not include life insurance, saving for retirement or things such as alcohol. We could get rid of the cell phones TV and internet and eating out which would cut out a couple hundred, but it is very easy to spend $4000 where we live.

 

 

The trade off is you get to live in Hawaii. Your life sounds okay over there to me.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

Anyway as long as each day I go to bed with more money than I woke up with I am not bothered about the cost of renting a moderately nice condo.

i  also like to wake up with more money then when i went to bed. unfortunarely this is not the case every day.

[JAFO]

12 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Thailand is cheap if you have very low standards.

 

I do not necessarily agree with that statement.  I happen to have very high standards and live as such. But that doesn't always have to equate to drinking fine wine or liquor, eating at posh restaurants, driving fancy cars or owning big houses. It could be just how one carries themselves and behaves.

[anotheruser]

 

15 minutes ago, JAFO said:

 

I do not necessarily agree with that statement.  I happen to have very high standards and live as such. But that doesn't always have to equate to drinking fine wine or liquor, eating at posh restaurants, driving fancy cars or owning big houses. It could be just how one carries themselves and behaves.

 

I guess what I am getting at is Thailand is cheap if you come and want it to be cheap. I could save more money than I do. However if you consider certain things like nice meals and holidays at good places to be an expense and not a luxury things change.

 

So things work out to be about the same for me over here. Sometimes I have to watch my money over here and not get carried away and I would also have to do so in the states.

 

Another intangible is how much you enjoy a place. If I enjoyed Thailand a lot more than I do I would probably perceive it to be a better value. I don't enjoy the local food or find value in taking Baht buses. We all see value differently. 

 

The cost of just about everything I like to do is similar to what it would be back home. 

 

If we are talking about living with the least amount possible yeah Thailand is cheaper in that scenario. Although I could live in a room in Nebraska with a cat lady for probably $150 a month, take the bus and only eat rice and beans and it would come out as cheap as the 5K room, Thai food and not going out anywhere equation.

 

There are places (not even Detroit) you can buy a house back home for a few thousand dollars. Some people wouldn't like the weather in those places so it is another intangible. 

 

Also comparing living in SF to somewhere in the country isn't a valid comparison. SF is for sure expensive but you would have to compare it to living in BKK in a similar neighborhood if there is one.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by anotheruser

[JAFO]

7 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

I won't bother even replying to Vulgar about a nice place to live being stupid. However in my case a nice condo saves me money going out. Bangkok is a harsh, hot, sweaty, smelly city. The only thing that makes living here tolerable is a nice condo and a healthy pay package. 

 

Some people get cheap places so they can afford to go out all the time. I chose something more comfortable so I stay in more often than not. This saves me money. 

 

So what occurs to me is Thailand is cheap if you are in the lower income brackets or miserly. If you have a certain lifestyle that you want to keep it is expensive as anywhere else.

 

In one way Thailand is cheap is if you aren't after hookers and drinking every night, there isn't a lot to spend money on. Think of all the money I save by not going to symphony orchestra, regular concerts, baseball or hockey games...

 

Some guys own a house (well sort of) and a truck and live in the woods cheaply. They say they spend no more than 30K a month or whatever. They will have spent more money than I ever will in Thailand. Anyway as long as each day I go to bed with more money than I woke up with I am not bothered about the cost of renting a moderately nice condo.

 

 

 

All fair comments anotheruser.  I think we have similar views on living here. Yes spending more on a nice condo affords you comfortable time at the place as I do with my house coupled with a nice salary. BKK I could never do for the reasons you stated. Lived there a year and couldn't wait to get out. I have a bit of land  now and can tinker around the house at will which costs me nothing and I enjoy my time with my wife. I have never been to a bar in Thailand anywhere because honestly I have tasted some mixed drinks at dinner places and they are utterly horrible and JW in any grade is crap. I'd prefer to stay at home and make my own which again is WAY cheaper. I am not a wine drinker at all so that saves a bunch as I have seen some of the wine prices.

 

The hooker part is pretty self explanatory and many come here and choose to rent cheap flats to have more money for that style of living. To each his own but its not that cheap. In fact I think its really expensive. But again like living accommodations it probably all depends on the quality of the hooker. 

 

To your other comment, Yes if you were likely living in poverty in your home country one might find you get more bang for your buck here. 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

I had some time  today so I thought I would toss in this comparison for the thread'

 

Here was my SF Bay Area COL ( all noted are per month)

 

• Mortgage $2,850 for 3 bdr 2 bath, 1500 sq ft in a older neighborhood centrally located and convenient for my wife.
• Property Tax $566
• Home owners ins $108
• Car payments $538 for both
• Car Insurance $167
• Fuel for cars: $250 
• Cable/internet $ 138
• Cell phone in 2 year contract with ATT : $152
• Utilities (Gas, electric water) $140
• Food and supplies $500 to $600
• Entertainment $ 500 on avg (But can go way up for trips and special events) 
• Medical ins $296 (Taken out of my check bi weekly)

My cash burn rate was appx $6,300 a month. (Appx 222K bt). In speaking with numerous colleagues this is pretty standard COL. This is why people in SF Bay Area have to make $100K or more a year salary or you have no "Fun" money. You work to survive or you max out credit cards.

 

Thailand COL:

 

• Mortgage $0 (3 Br 4 bath house appx 2900 sq ft) ( we can argue the cost of what it took me to build the house but I will say it was a FRACTION of what it cost to buy one in the SF Bay Area not even taking into acct the interest one pays over 30 years of the mortgage. Most people never look at that number. Its down right scary)
• Property tax $ 1 ( not a typo, Last assessment was 38 bt, why even bother)
• Homeowners ins $18
• Car payments $0 (Paid for them in full because with no mortgage and other housing costs it made good sense and why pay interest) 
• Car insurance $0 (First year is free, do not know what it will be next year)
• Fuel for cars $ 135 (Use Scooters a lot for local stuff)
• Cable/internet $58 ( I do not have the big True vision package, I DL my content but I do have NFL game pass and included the $16 a month in total. Like in the US there are hundreds of worthless channels on bundled cable packages)
• Cell phones, $45
• Utilities (Water and electric) $83 on avg. Again my wife and I do not use AC much and water is very little
• Food and supplies: $400
• Entertainment: $250 (But can go way up for trips and special events) 
• Medical: $0 Company pays 100%. 

 

Cash burn rate is $1000 (appx 35K bt) without car insurance yet. If I guess on auto insurance as my wife thought it would be it adds about $66 extra per month taking the total to $1100 (38K bt)

 

 I live very well for $38K bt as I did in the US for 220k bt. So clearly the COL  in Thailand is incredibly less for us. 

 

SF Bay area is one of the most expensive areas in the US.  Better compare the prices there to Thong Lor in Bangkok.  Same same then.

[jpinx]

51 minutes ago, Naam said:

i  also like to wake up with more money then when i went to bed. unfortunarely this is not the case every day.

You losing your touch ?

[Naam]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

You losing your touch ?

not yet. in fact 2016 performance was the second best in many years. but investment fluctuate and that down days happen quite often is very normal especially when investing in the high yield/high risk sector.

[anotheruser]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

SF Bay area is one of the most expensive areas in the US.  Better compare the prices there to Thong Lor in Bangkok.  Same same then.

 

Not really. Take the cheapest apartment in Thong Lor and compare to the cheapest part of SF. Again Thailand wins at the lowest price point. You have to take into account some of the examples people are giving. $2,500 in rent or more and two cars. They are not living at the lowest extreme of what America offers.

 

The largest cities in the USA will be more expensive than Bangkok. If you compare average small market areas in the USA things become so close the difference can be negligible. Living the "Isaan" life in the USA isn't expensive at all. Cars and houses are cheaper.  

 

Go to Oklahoma (as close as I can think of compared to rural Thailand) You can buy a house for 50K, a used car for $2,000 that is in decent shape, food is cheaper if you eat western food. I imagine if you own your own house and car you could live pretty close to what people are spending in Thailand

 

Also when people start citing health insurance don't these costs travel with you or is health insurance in Thailand cheaper? Two cars in the USA as opposed to one in Thailand? Car insurance? I am going to say that sure it is more expensive in the USA but also provides much more should you get into an accident.

 

Both the examples of SF and Hawaii can be done much cheaper. Owning two cars and living in the two most expensive places in the USA isn't that great of an insight. In any case you could easily shave $2,000 a month off of both examples per month.

 

If the guy in Hawaii pays his $2,500 mortgage off it means his outgoings would become closer to $1,500 a month. That is to live in Hawaii... 

 

[thehelmsman]

7 hours ago, Get Real said:

Where did I say what I feed myself? I probably have the experience enough to give my daugther the food she need. Don´t think you have to worry in that case.
Can be that you don´t have any children and are just nosey by nature. However, what I give my daugther is not relevant in this topic, so just put a plug in it if you don´t have something useful to say.

 

Yeah, have a little girl as well. You made it relevant when you brought yours into the picture. If only useful remarks were posted, these threads would die sooner.

[JAFO]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

SF Bay area is one of the most expensive areas in the US.  Better compare the prices there to Thong Lor in Bangkok.  Same same then.

 

I wasn't really comparing to any one place. I was comparing to where my wife and I left to where we are now. As I said, for us it is far less to live in Thailand then to stay where we were. 

 

But the thing one must consider. When you are married its not about what you want, its about what works for the 2 of you. Sure I could have moved to some back hills of say Kentucky and bought a shack but why would I? Firstly my wife would be totally isolated and that would be completely unfair for her and I would guess in no time she would implode and leave then what. I am now living in a shack alone in Kentucky?

 

Now on the other hand if you lived in that back hills Kentucky deal and moved to Thailand you might not see much difference. But then why move?

 

As has been discussed hundreds of time on this site, You move where you move and live where you live because its your decision. For me I have a nice house with a great lady and virtually no real expenses to speak of now and I am living easy and its fun to get out of the US. Having lived their 50 years it was time for a change of scenery.

Edited November 30, 2016 by JAFO

[anotheruser]

So in all actuality one really isn't cheaper than the other. I guess that about sums it up.

[Ahab]

10 hours ago, Get Real said:

 

Okey! Just sounded expensive. never had any experience of Hawaii.

It is expensive, but except for the rent and taxes many places in the other places are almost as expensive (Washington DC, San Diego, Seattle, San Francisco, etc... We will be living on less than I pay monthly for rent in Hawaii when we make the move.

[Ahab]

Oh, I forgot about Hawaii state income tax of 8%. There is no question that living in Thailand is cheaper than almost anywhere in the USA.

 

[anotheruser]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Oh, I forgot about Hawaii state income tax of 8%. There is no question that living in Thailand is cheaper than almost anywhere in the USA.

 

 

You will continue to own two cars that are insured and keep health insurance? 

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

 

You will continue to own two cars that are insured and keep health insurance? 

One truck and probably a scooter (for around the village) in Thailand.  Also we will have health insurance in Thailand which will be less than the $800 per month here in Hawaii.

[anotheruser]

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

One truck and probably a scooter (for around the village) in Thailand.  Also we will have health insurance in Thailand which will be less than the $800 per month here in Hawaii.

 

Can i trouble you to ask exactly where you will buy that insurance from? Reducing it from two cars to one will save some money although the initial purchase price of a new car in Thailand will be more and the insurance on it will not mean a lot if you get into a serious accident.

Edited November 30, 2016 by anotheruser

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Can i trouble you to ask exactly where you will buy that insurance from?

I will be using TRICARE and self insuring initially and will start researching (more in-depth) the other options. I think a plan for my wife and myself for under around $200 USD per month can be had. I might be wrong, but we will see.

[anotheruser]

Well you stated it as fact and now you suggest you actually do not know. Insurance and might aren't two words that I like to use in the same sentence. 

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Well you stated it as fact and now you suggest you actually do not know. Insurance and might aren't two words that I like to use in the same sentence. 

OK, let me be a bit more clear. The plans that I have looked at all indicate that a monthly premium would be around $200 USD per month depending on the coverage and the plan (for a 54 year old male and my wife). If this estimate is out to lunch, let me know.

 

Worse case I pay out of pocket (we have cash reserves), or use the TRICARE for large issues.

[Ahab]

5 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

Can i trouble you to ask exactly where you will buy that insurance from? Reducing it from two cars to one will save some money although the initial purchase price of a new car in Thailand will be more and the insurance on it will not mean a lot if you get into a serious accident.

The spreadsheet is where I am basing my estimate on for health insurance.

jc-major-med-sprdsht.pdf

[Ahab]

5 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Well you stated it as fact and now you suggest you actually do not know. Insurance and might aren't two words that I like to use in the same sentence. 

How much do you pay for health insurance in Thailand?

[Elkski]

I cant imagine being able to rent a room anywhere in the USA in 2017 for 150$ month?   Rent prices for a 2 bd rm apartment in Salt Lake area are like 1100$/mo  I can rent a bedroom for 500-600$/ mo at my house...  Rent prices in Denver at this time are super high and I trust those SF and Hawaii numbers .

I think if you working in Thailand its different than if your retired so your posts don't really count that much for those of us who are wanting to jump out of the fast lane. 

 

What benefits does a 70k Baht condo bring?   I don't want a ton just maybe 50kg.

I appreciate the detailed expenses but its not ok to compare buying a car to having car payments.  You would at least need to  spread the  cost out of 120 months assuming some yield even .5% and put that on the monthly expenses due to the lost money

No way you can eat even 1 meal for under 30 baht even in Korat.. 50 baht in Phuket.

120 baht a day for food is a very careful man.

Im hoping 70k/mo will work for me.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Elkski
I have a Korat lady who lives in Phuket visiting me and the food prices are her numbers.

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

I wasn't really comparing to any one place. I was comparing to where my wife and I left to where we are now. As I said, for us it is far less to live in Thailand then to stay where we were. 

 

But the thing one must consider. When you are married its not about what you want, its about what works for the 2 of you. Sure I could have moved to some back hills of say Kentucky and bought a shack but why would I? Firstly my wife would be totally isolated and that would be completely unfair for her and I would guess in no time she would implode and leave then what. I am now living in a shack alone in Kentucky?

 

Now on the other hand if you lived in that back hills Kentucky deal and moved to Thailand you might not see much difference. But then why move?

 

As has been discussed hundreds of time on this site, You move where you move and live where you live because its your decision. For me I have a nice house with a great lady and virtually no real expenses to speak of now and I am living easy and its fun to get out of the US. Having lived their 50 years it was time for a change of scenery.

Understood.  But many here compare living in places like SF, Hawaii, Denver, etc to more remote places in Issan.  A better comparison would be like mentioned in a post above.  Oklahoma, Kentucky, etc.  The big cities in the US are best compared to Bangkok.

 

As for your wife, probably isolated in a shack in Kentucky is true!  Same with me!  But I'd be isolated and ready to leave if I was in a small, remote area here in Thailand also.  It's OK for a year or two, but not much after that.  Though many do enjoy living there.  To each his own.

 

An interesting comparison would be somebody moving from Bangkok to a smaller community in the US.  But yes, in the end, it's what makes you happy.  If you don't mind living cheaply here, then you can save money.  If you need Western amenities, then it's not really that much cheaper.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Elkski said:

I cant imagine being able to rent a room anywhere in the USA in 2017 for 150$ month?   Rent prices for a 2 bd rm apartment in Salt Lake area are like 1100$/mo  I can rent a bedroom for 500-600$/ mo at my house...  Rent prices in Denver at this time are super high and I trust those SF and Hawaii numbers .

I think if you working in Thailand its different than if your retired so your posts don't really count that much for those of us who are wanting to jump out of the fast lane. 

 

What benefits does a 70k Baht condo bring?   I don't want a ton just maybe 50kg.

I appreciate the detailed expenses but its not ok to compare buying a car to having car payments.  You would at least need to  spread the  cost out of 120 months assuming some yield even .5% and put that on the monthly expenses due to the lost money

No way you can eat even 1 meal for under 30 baht even in Korat.. 50 baht in Phuket.

120 baht a day for food is a very careful man.

Im hoping 70k/mo will work for me.

 

70k Baht a month is plenty, we (2 people) live very well on 55k but we own our house hence no rent plus our utility costs are very low. A good guide to the cost of food is to see how much the various stalls in the food courts charge, in Chiang Mai that's a 50 baht minimum as far as I can see - about 8k a month for our supermarket spend and then another 6k or so for meals out. If you vary the location your rental and entertainment costs will change but the cost of petrol, food stuffs and utilities will remain pretty much constant, Tesco, Big C and PTT charge the same in Phuket as they do in Nakon Nowhere.

Edited December 1, 2016 by chiang mai

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Understood.  But many here compare living in places like SF, Hawaii, Denver, etc to more remote places in Issan.  A better comparison would be like mentioned in a post above.  Oklahoma, Kentucky, etc.  The big cities in the US are best compared to Bangkok.

 

As for your wife, probably isolated in a shack in Kentucky is true!  Same with me!  But I'd be isolated and ready to leave if I was in a small, remote area here in Thailand also.  It's OK for a year or two, but not much after that.  Though many do enjoy living there.  To each his own.

 

An interesting comparison would be somebody moving from Bangkok to a smaller community in the US.  But yes, in the end, it's what makes you happy.  If you don't mind living cheaply here, then you can save money.  If you need Western amenities, then it's not really that much cheaper.

 

Oh I am the same way craigt3365. No way I could live isolated. I am far to social and like to get out. I do not need to see westerners per say but definitely need to get out and see and do things like enjoy a day in the city, have lunch with my wife, go look at art for the house, pick up supplies for the project in the yard, mess around on my truck, fish etc etc.

 

I also agree many do compare Isaan living to the affluent places you mentioned in the US. I was trying to be careful and not do that but rather show my general comparison. If you lived in affluent areas in the US and move to middle class Thailand the delta in the COL is likely going to be quite large and does become quite appealing ( again working under the premise that you will not insist on everything like it was from where you left as that could be ones undoing). Its an even larger delta if you move out to a remote part of the Isaan region. I looked back and I do not think I really moved to Thailand because of the COL,( do not get me wrong as you can see it was a HUGE difference for us.) I moved here because I actually like the area, weather, food, people and something new to embark on. Of course the decision for us to move was made easier by the job offer to work here along with my wife being Thai. I doubt if I was married to a westerner woman this would have happened for a host of reasons. As we know in life timing is everything.

 

As for your last paragraph, I agree it would be a nice to hear of a person who moved from BKK to a smaller community USA. So many factors play in that. The biggest one being are you retired or still have to remain gainfully employed. 

[JAFO]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

I cant imagine being able to rent a room anywhere in the USA in 2017 for 150$ month?   Rent prices for a 2 bd rm apartment in Salt Lake area are like 1100$/mo  I can rent a bedroom for 500-600$/ mo at my house...  Rent prices in Denver at this time are super high and I trust those SF and Hawaii numbers .

I think if you working in Thailand its different than if your retired so your posts don't really count that much for those of us who are wanting to jump out of the fast lane. 

 

What benefits does a 70k Baht condo bring?   I don't want a ton just maybe 50kg.

I appreciate the detailed expenses but its not ok to compare buying a car to having car payments.  You would at least need to  spread the  cost out of 120 months assuming some yield even .5% and put that on the monthly expenses due to the lost money

No way you can eat even 1 meal for under 30 baht even in Korat.. 50 baht in Phuket.

120 baht a day for food is a very careful man.

Im hoping 70k/mo will work for me.

 

Elski,

I agree on the car payments but the comparison was for me and my situation exclusively. It made better sense to pay cash versus financing ( plus I wanted virtually no debt here). I did the math and if I was to have financed the cars similarly in Thailand as I did in the US, the car payment would be roughly the same Appx $450 a month (15k bt). So if I add that back in COL it raises our COL to $1500 (52k bt) in Thailand versus $6.5K (225k bt) in the SF Bay area. A delta of appx $5k (175k bt) a month.

 

As for meals, those numbers you quoted are fair but not sure who eats like that every day. I go out to lunch with colleagues at work and we share rounds so they buy one time then I buy. Off the top of my head I spend 1000bt tops a week for lunch. Dinner is usually light and maybe 100bt, each night or so just depends. I eat varying Thai food almost exclusively.

 

70K baht a month should do you well. There will be months that you do not do much and you will save some, then there will be months where you take off and spend a lot. It is from my experience living and working abroad that when you first move anywhere new your expenses are significantly higher as you have to dole out for security deposits, get set up with supplies and until you are comfortable with the area you will eat in places you know which will likely be higher. Of course being its all new you will travel a bit more too initially and all of that costs money. Once you have settled in the costs will stabilize.  I say come live it but don't be to rigid on your budget. You would be surprised how quickly 70K baht can go.........

[EvenSteven]

The difference between the cost of living is not as great as many would like to make out when comparing apples to apples.  Living in Isaan for $1000 USD/month in a straw hut, using an outhouse or sharing an old bathroom and eating on the street like a homeless person is not equivalent to living in SF on a budget of $6000.  I can easily burn through $6000 a month in Bangkok too.  In fact, I could double it without too much trouble.  But please excuse me for a moment ... I've got pick up my new Kawasaki zx-10r that I just purchased for the equivalent of $26K USD in Bangkok that sells for $13K in the States.  Who was it that said living in Thailand is noticeably cheaper than the States?

Edited December 1, 2016 by EvenSteven

[Naam]

3 hours ago, EvenSteven said:

Who was it that said living in Thailand is noticeably cheaper than the States?

i said so... many times! how much do you pay for four fulltime employees, cook, maid, gardener and driver/handyman in the States? $1,800 (60,000 Baht)? 14 years ago in Florida we paid $12.-/hour/425 Baht for our maid. gardening services were $600/month/21,000 Baht (lawn mowing and hedge clipping once a week), property tax $12,000/p.a. (425,000 Baht), homeowner's insurance including hurricane surcharge $8,000 p.a. (284,000).

 

next! 

[anotheruser]

4 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

Elski,

I agree on the car payments but the comparison was for me and my situation exclusively. It made better sense to pay cash versus financing ( plus I wanted virtually no debt here). I did the math and if I was to have financed the cars similarly in Thailand as I did in the US, the car payment would be roughly the same Appx $450 a month (15k bt). So if I add that back in COL it raises our COL to $1500 (52k bt) in Thailand versus $6.5K (225k bt) in the SF Bay area. A delta of appx $5k (175k bt) a month.

 

As for meals, those numbers you quoted are fair but not sure who eats like that every day. I go out to lunch with colleagues at work and we share rounds so they buy one time then I buy. Off the top of my head I spend 1000bt tops a week for lunch. Dinner is usually light and maybe 100bt, each night or so just depends. I eat varying Thai food almost exclusively.

 

70K baht a month should do you well. There will be months that you do not do much and you will save some, then there will be months where you take off and spend a lot. It is from my experience living and working abroad that when you first move anywhere new your expenses are significantly higher as you have to dole out for security deposits, get set up with supplies and until you are comfortable with the area you will eat in places you know which will likely be higher. Of course being its all new you will travel a bit more too initially and all of that costs money. Once you have settled in the costs will stabilize.  I say come live it but don't be to rigid on your budget. You would be surprised how quickly 70K baht can go.........

 

Agreed on the price of moving abroad. Be prepared to pay through the nose for home furnishings here in Thailand. On the other hand if you eat street food everyday you should only need one bowl and one rice spoon and a fork. :) So I think the OP now has a good cross section of opinions on cost of living in Thailand.