Pronunciation of ไหม

[flipside555]

I'm doing a Linguaphone course in which ไหม  is consistently transcribed as mái instead of mǎi. That is, with a high instead of a falling tone.  This page  and this page state that  mái  is an alternative, colloquial pronunciation. Which is most common? I'm guessing that I'd be better off learning to pronounce it as mǎi and remaining aware that it is often pronounced mái. Is that right, or is mái so ubiquitous that I'd be better of going with it from the start?

[rijb]

ไหม (is it?) - (a question particle same as question mark) - add ไหม (măi) to the end of a sentence.

 

ไม่ or เปล่า - answer is no

[tgeezer]

Some people claim that it is ไม้ and write มั้ย but I learnt ไหม and don't think I say ไม้ often. It's up to you.


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[AbeSurd]

I don't know how most Thais pronounce it but I looked at the OP's question and said to myself the conventional tone rules say "rising tone".

 

Then I looked it up in my dictionary which also says "rising tone".

[DavidHouston]

Once a language is subject to a written form, it becomes ossified. Spellings which may have developed to reflect a word's pronunciation become obsolete when pronunciation evolves over time. This is fairly common in Thai:

เขา becomes เค้า

ไหม becomes ไม้

ฉัน becomes ชั้น

ครับ becomes คับ

ช่าง becomes ชั่ง
มหาวิทยาลัย becomes มหาลัย

 

etc.  I'm sure others can provide additional examples.
 

[tgeezer]

Pronuncation may evolve over time but that doesn't change the way a word is spelt. The best English example I can think of is 'could of' which is totally nonsensical but common with people who never knew that 'could've' was the short form of 'could have'. This ignorance may have existed for a long time but has become apparent due to the internet.
Teachers in Thailand on the other hand, do know how to spell and most people who are educated may mispronounce these words and use them on Facetime for effect but that doesn't change their spelling.
I hear กางหลุม on the golf course when a putt goes down, the speaker admits that it is กลางหลุม when asked, I don't think that they would write การหลุม



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[flipside555]

Thanks for the responses, guys. All of the dictionaries I've seen have it as a rising tone. And according to the pronunciation rules it should be rising, but the course I'm doing transliterates it as high, and the pages I linked to in the original post show high as an alternative. I think for the time-being I'll stick with rising, to avoid confusing myself (or rather to avoid confusing myself any further!)

[Aforek]

20 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

I don't know how most Thais pronounce it but I looked at the OP's question and said to myself the conventional tone rules say "rising tone".

 

Then I looked it up in my dictionary which also says "rising tone".

I have often heard Thai people tell and pronounce  it because it's a very common word, and for me they use the rising tone, no doubt about it

[AbeSurd]

11 minutes ago, Aforek said:

I have often heard Thai people tell and pronounce  it because it's a very common word, and for me they use the rising tone, no doubt about it

 

I wish I could hear tone as well as you do

[Aforek]

1 hour ago, AbeSurd said:

 

I wish I could hear tone as well as you do

 

It's just a question of habit and practice; I don't mean I recognize every tone, differences are subtle , but some, especially ไหม  and other rising tones words are easy to recognize, also long vowels ;   listen, listen Thai  people speak and you will learn more and more

[lkn]

ไหม (mǎi) is the most common in written Thai.

 

มั้ย (mái) is likely to be more common in spoken Thai.

 

You’ll find this with a few words, for example the polite particle for female speakers can both be ค่ะ and คะ and I was once told that I pronounced ครับ with a high tone “like old people”.