Colon cancer

[isanbirder]

I have just completed cycle 5 of the 12 cycles of chemotherapy prescribed here for colon cancer if an operation is not possible (i.e. if there has been metastasis).

 

Somebody has just told me about laetrile treatment (kobuchi-gumi), an alternative medicine which seems to have been very successful (Ronald Reagan, Nancy Sinatra etc (it chooses its proponents well).  Can anybody shed any more light on this.... if possible from personal experience.

[al007]

I am sorry and also very interested to hear about your predicament

 

I to was diagnosed with both prostate and colon/rectum cancer is September,( yes two different ones at the same time, never rains but it pours! ! )  and have just completer 6/7 weeks of radiology and chemo, in Bangkok, I live in KhonKaen and am now home, I go back to Bangkok for more evaluation in January

 

I too am very interested in alternatives, 

 

It has been suggested I could wind up with a colostomy bag, and as a long term solution I am not sure if I am prepared to go this route

 

I feel for you and wish you well

 

Keep smiling and stay positive

 

If I can be any help at all please PM me and I will happily give you my phone number

[isanbirder]

Laetrile is an alternative, but has been rejected by  big Pharma because it is a plant extract, and cannot be patented.  Big Pharma is only interested in money.

 

Because of this, all the necessary research has not been done, so the dosage/usage is not clear.  It may work for some but not for others.

 

Good luck, and fight!

[thai3]

Can somebody say how much the treatment has been? Mum and 2 sisters died of it so it's always of concern to me.

[Sheryl]

Actually, a fair amount of research has been done, including random controlled trials. These have found the drug is ineffective.

 

Laetrile is not only ineffective, it is dangerous. The active ingrediant is a cyanide compound, and it can be quite dangerous

 

As it is available in Mexico, many desperate US cancer patients have taken it. Sometimes with tragic results.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005476.pub3/abstract

 

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancers-in-general/treatment/complementary-alternative/therapies/laetrile

 

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/laetrile-pdq

 

 

[al007]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually, a fair amount of research has been done, including random controlled trials. These have found the drug is ineffective.

 

Laetrile is not only ineffective, it is dangerous. The active ingrediant is a cyanide compound, and it can be quite dangerous

 

As it is available in Mexico, many desperate US cancer patients have taken it. Sometimes with tragic results.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005476.pub3/abstract

 

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancers-in-general/treatment/complementary-alternative/therapies/laetrile

 

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/laetrile-pdq

 

 

 

I have only spent a fews hour researching this but Sheryl's comment sum up what I have found so far, the cyanide bit is somewhat troublesome

 

I believe there are other alternative maybe herbal remedies

 

Since starting , and chemo, I have drastically changed my diet, both to loose weight and eat/drink things that are meant to be cancer beneficial, like nuts pomegranate juice and a few others 

[ttthailand]

I have been studying different ways to avoid and also treat cancer using natural ways. Check out juicing, vitamin C in high doses, little to no Carb diets and daily fasting for 16 hours each day. Add to this list exercise, staying positive and trying not to get too stressed out. I would suggest doing all the above. I am a cancer survivor but was successful in the removal with an operation. I have tried to avoid a recurrence so I take care of my health with basically the same items I have listed. Not sure if this helps but if you follow you might start to see some improvements. Good luck !!!


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[al007]

4 hours ago, thai3 said:

Can somebody say how much the treatment has been? Mum and 2 sisters died of it so it's always of concern to me.

 

I had no cancer history in the family, then I get a double hit, cancer was never one of my worries heart maybe, hip replacement maybe, but not big cost, I did the prostate surgery in India where costs were very competitive and reasonable

 

I am not really considering India this time as my wife is not so comfortable there and happier in her own country, this is very important to me

 

I am self insured, and with the limitations payment out of many/most policies at my age, most would have maybe only covered the first 500,000 to 700,000 batt and very high premiums

 

If you are not insured with history in the family maybe you need to consider this, when deciding not to insure I knew I could meet bills of 1.0 to 2.0 if push came to shove, maybe I scream and shout but would still survive

 

My Chemo/Radiology and accommodation bills in Bangkok to date, are around 300,000 batt and thats in a government hospital, but probably equal to the best private hospital in Thailand, I was very lucky to be treated there

 

If I have surgery I have been advised it can be in the same Bangkok hospital, and I have yet to get a figure, but overall , including what I have spent to date, would hope to come out around 800,000, but really not sure 

 

I am trying to get prices at the moment, so I can plan financially

 

My very long stop plan would be to drop myself back in the UK, at the mercy of the health services and social services, I have not been in the Uk for nearly 20 yrs, most my friends are dead, and I have no family left there

In the UK I get some emotional support, from The Chartered Accountants Benevolent Society, and if things got very difficult I am sure they would help

 

I remain optimistic and hopeful, but still need to have a plan in the event things got difficult !!, so far so good

 

I am approaching 72 and if I die one night quietly and peacefully that solves many problems, and we need to stay positive

 

[simplespiveys]

Unfortunately marijuana is illegal in Thailand for some reason... although they have some pretty awesome strains. So if you want to ease your symptoms it should help you but you'll likely have to travel to a country with sufficient medical marijuana research to just juice the plants parts and eat the decarboxylated flower in oil. I was on a plane ride with a pastor next to me and he informed me he literally stuffed canna-oil with shea butter (to keep it solid before administration) into his father's rectum and it lengthened his life/quality of life after his own wife used it intra-vaginally for her cervical cancer.  She surpassed the doctors estimates of life by at least 2 years. His father is still living and he waited until he was bleeding rectally for 3 months before bringing it up and going to the dr to be diagnosed.

 

Quality of life is a great concern in times like these, and even without consulting Israel's research funded by the US government,  I can say medical administration of mmj is almost every form has excellent effects on a persons positivity/outlook.

[isanbirder]

Ronald Reagan and Nancy Sinatra both claimed to have been cured by Laetrile;  it's always convincing to use big names, but their advocacy is actually worth no more than yours or mine.

 

My chemotherapy in a Government hospital will cost out at about B.300,00, including all the diagnostic tests.

 

a1007, of what did your treatment consist?  I am having what seems to be a standard course........ 3 days on the chemo, 11 days 'holiday', repeated 12 times.  That's almost six months.  You seem to have done it quicker.  Also I had no radiotherapy.

 

I am 79;  I think age is important in these discussions!

 

thai3, colon cancer is thought to be genetic;  my mother died of it aged 82.

 

I am sure state of mind is helpful.  When I was told of the diagnosis, my thoughts were suddenly flooded with peace of mind, something I didn't expect in the least!  This has persisted to this day.  I put this in because it has been important to me, and I wonder what other people's reactions have been.

 

Thanks, Sheryl for your adverse comments about Laetrile.  Like all alternative medicine, it has proponents who could not conceive that they could possibly be wrong, and they can be very convincing;  that doesn't mean they are right.  But I fear Big Pharma and the money, because I think their vested interests will crush any opposition;  they are businessmen, not healers. 

[KarenBravo]

Regrets to the people on here who have cancer.

I do not, but, have lost many friends to it.

I really can understand the appeal of these "alternative" medicines and those people that I know that tried it, justified it by the "Big Pharma" argument. I've always thought that if a natural and cheap cure was found, no pharma company could ever hide it, or, keep it's existence secret.

 

I guess the point of this post is please, please don't get side-tracked by these quack cures that are given a veneer of respectability by using the word "alternative". Lost a good friend that way and the world lost Steve Jobs for the same reason.

If there's nothing to lose, then go for it.

Just remember that cancer is not a death sentence these days.

Stay strong and good luck.

 

PS. Nancy Reagan was a life-long believer and follower of astrology.

Edited December 5, 2016 by KarenBravo

[Issangeorge]

Al007, I am curious why you have gone to Bangkok for treatment? I understand that KK University Hospital is very good for cancer treatment, why would you not have gone there?

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[isanbirder]

4 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Regrets to the people on here who have cancer.

I do not, but, have lost many friends to it.

I really can understand the appeal of these "alternative" medicines and those people that I know that tried it, justified it by the "Big Pharma" argument. I've always thought that if a natural and cheap cure was found, no pharma company could ever hide it, or, keep it's existence secret.

 

I guess the point of this post is please, please don't get side-tracked by these quack cures that are given a veneer of respectability by using the word "alternative". Lost a good friend that way and the world lost Steve Jobs for the same reason.

If there's nothing to lose, then go for it.

Just remember that cancer is not a death sentence these days.

Stay strong and good luck.

 

PS. Nancy Reagan was a life-long believer and follower of astrology.

 

 

Yes, I posted this as I felt that all possibilities should have a say, BUT I am very cautious when the advocates of alternative medicine turn it into a kind of a crusade.  I wouldn't call it a quack cure, though.  I used one of the commonest of these cures, saw palmetto for BPH, for a while.  It apparently cut down my nightly toilet visits from six to one (and the relief of getting a good night's sleep!), but its effectiveness diminished after about a year.  Now I use medicine which comes from my doctor.

[al007]

5 hours ago, Issangeorge said:

Al007, I am curious why you have gone to Bangkok for treatment? I understand that KK University Hospital is very good for cancer treatment, why would you not have gone there?

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I went to bangkok, because their equipment is more up to date than khonKaen, in fact it is american state of the art

 

 https://www.varian.com/oncology/products/treatment-delivery/clinac-ix-system

They put me on the mobile table then the whole machine revolves, open the link above then click on the six smaller pictures below which put that pic into big pic

 

They can with this equipment be very targeted, like radiate either side of the urethra whilst leaving urethra undamaged, these rays are dangerous, they can also check the treatment as it happens, in real time on monitors in a different room

 

A bad workman blames his tools but I have always said the best tools do make the task so much easier

 

I checked the KK facility out and saw the professor who has just retired, I felt he was not as on the ball as much as my Chula consultant who was also John Hopkins  USA trained, and about 37, I felt he probably was more upto date in what is is high technology field

 

Also for Khonkaen I would have had to wait three weeks to start the treatment

 

In bangkok I had a team of three qualified doctors Radiologist, Chemotherapist, and Surgeon( who will ultimately do the surgery if i go that route) looking after me and one student, all specifically assigned to me

 

With hindsight I definitely feel I made the correct decision, and felt comfortable, the doctors listened, the Doctor in Khonkaen was not as targeted

[al007]

My chemotherapy in a Government hospital will cost out at about B.300,00, including all the diagnostic tests.

 

a1007, of what did your treatment consist?  I am having what seems to be a standard course........ 3 days on the chemo, 11 days 'holiday', repeated 12 times.  That's almost six months.  You seem to have done it quicker.  Also I had no radiotherapy.

 

I am 79;  I think age is important in these discussions!

 

thai3, colon cancer is thought to be genetic;  my mother died of it aged 82.

 

Let me try and reply to your post

 

I am 71/72, next April

 

 Your fig of B.300,00 is a little unclear

 

My treatment consisted of six weeks, radiation Tues. to sat and chemo the same, chemo by tablet not injection, I saw my radiologist for review each saturday and my Chemo man every Tuesday,  my case was also discussed each week by my team, I saw the surgeon twice

 

I go back in January for many more tests and MRI, when an evaluation will be made, in the meantime I continue with my research so when given the facts I can make an informed decision

 

There is no evidence of cancer in my family, you say your mother died of colon cancer aged 82, may I suggest it could also have been old age that killed her

 

I had an uncle who everyone said died of alcohol poisoning, he drank a bottle of scotch a day, he was 92, now I look at it differently, I say the alcohol helped him live to a good old age, and my way I feel better, no one knows which is correct

 

I referred in my earlier post to up to date equipment, I liken it to trying to shoot a rabbit with world war one musket, to using an up to date state of the art snipers riffle, which has the better chance of doing a clean efficient job

 

Also on why Bangkok. when young in the midlands of England, my father a highly qualified dental surgeon always said for the top treatment it was necessary to go to London, at that time he was correct, but not so today

I feel very much Thailand in the provinces still has that same lack of expertise, and maybe better in Bangkok

 

The quality of the treatment is to some large extent dependent on the doctor himself

 

As to costs today I added the various bills up and as follows Radiology 134,000, chemo 33,000, blood tests etc 7000, accommodation 101,000, being 51 days, all up about 276,000

 

I received a vast amount of guidance and pointers from Sheryl to whom I am very grateful, without her it would have been far more difficult, and maybe impossible to be where I am today, I went through some very low periods and Sheryl always dragged me out of them

 

I also had blood tests weekly to monitor the red and white count in particular, very important

 

I wonder why you are not being given radiology, maybe you need to enquire

 

Also do not discount going to Bangkok for a second opinion

 

If and a big if, I could see 80 and not be confined to bed and suffering I would be very; well actually; exceedingly grateful

 

As I said before if you want to talk send me PM and I will give you my number

 

 

[isanbirder]

Sorry, A1007.  My figure should have been 300,000!

 

A good reference about laetrile:-

 

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

 

My mother had been diagnosed with colon cancer, and was under treatment for it.  This is all I can say!  But she, like me, had reached an age where your body is running down, and it's no surprise when a 'dread disease' takes over.  I think that as human beings we have the responsibility of maintaining our bodies as far as is reasonably possible.... which is why I look into "alternatives" (and usually reject them).

[al007]

10 minutes ago, isanbirder said:

Sorry, A1007.  My figure should have been 300,000!

 

A good reference about laetrile:-

 

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

 

My mother had been diagnosed with colon cancer, and was under treatment for it.  This is all I can say!  But she, like me, had reached an age where your body is running down, and it's no surprise when a 'dread disease' takes over.  I think that as human beings we have the responsibility of maintaining our bodies as far as is reasonably possible.... which is why I look into "alternatives" (and usually reject them).

 

Something seems adrift to me, you say 300,000 just for Chemo, my whole lot including a big bit for accommodation came out well below your figure

 

So you pay 8400 each visit

 

I think maybe you need to ask a few more questions

 

Do you have insurance cover  ??, my chemo bit was 33,000

[isanbirder]

My figure of 300,000 was a total, including all costs from the diagnostic procedures to the hospitalisation and chemo, and (projected) subsequent tests (MRI etc).

 

No, I do not have insurance, but I have had a large donation for costs from a friend.

 

I intend to get in touch by pm, but waited to see what the open forum would bring.