Thai youth born in Japan set to be deported because Thai mum worked illegally

[Raymonddiaz]

35 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

A similar case was decided in the U.S some years ago.

A Thai family illrgally entered he U.S. with their infant baby.

They raised their son as a U.S citizen.

He grew up in the U.S.believing he was a U.S citizen.

H went to schooll in the U.S.

He even had an illegal U.S passsport that his parents somehow had acuquired  for him.

When he was old enough  he tried to join the USAF.

Only then did he discover his Thai parents had uised illegal docunrnts to get him into the U.S when he was an infant.

He was deported to Thailand even though he thought he was a U.S citizen and he  spoke no Thai.

 

 

 

very sad indeed. I feel for him because it wasn't his fault...

[jm91]

56 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So you are going to tell the Japanese the correct way of thinking. It is their country, their self image, who are you to tell them that they shouldn't be racist, feeling a bit superior today are we?

Read my post very carefully. I point out that the rules themselves are racist. If the Japanese want to believe that they are a superior race and have laws that enforce that view..that is their choice. Please read and think about the content of my posts before responding. 

[DogNo1]

Well, the laws of Japan are very specific about who is Japanese and who isn't.  The Koreans who have been in Japan for generations are not Japanese citizens.  They are Special Permanent Residents.  There are lots of permanent residents of various nationalities in Japan.  It's not race which entitles a person to reside in Japan, it's legality.  Conflating racism with permission to live in Japan is a mistake.  The Japanese are touchy about who is Japanese and who isn't.  Japanese of a special caste called Burakumin are still discriminated against but then discrimination exists everywhere.  As a permanent resident of Japan, I can stay as long as I want and buy anything that I want - land, a house, a business, etc.  I do not need to report my whereabouts.  I have a registered permanent address in Japan and that's enough. I can come and go and travel anywhere that I want at any time. People who are full of venom about racism in Japan might want to contemplate the right of residence, along with other rights, in Japan with other Asian countries.  Japan seems quite fair to me.

 

How many illegal people should be allowed to reside in Japan?  A thousand? 100,000?  Ten milliion? Japan has made a few compassionate exceptions to allow people to reside in Japan but generally they require residents to be legal.  That's only proper.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Raymonddiaz said:

i feel sorry for them . It will be better for them to accept that all countries in the world are like a small village. Foreign haters have no choice. the so many '' foreigners'' are in fact locals because they were born and raised there. I know many '' foreigners'' with UK passport.

That's a big problem in the UK, far too many of these foreigners have got their passports far too easily

[Raymonddiaz]

16 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

That's a big problem in the UK, far too many of these foreigners have got their passports far too easily

they are real citizens whether you like it or not. They have the same rights and obligations. The world is a small village my man ?.

[nausea]

They don't have any kids, they need to deport kids. Crazy. Side-line it,  not an important issue.

[vaultdweller0013]

12 hours ago, Docno said:

Not a whole lot of compassion around here, but that's just par for this course, I know. Look, laws should always be applied with some discretion because there is no way that law and policy can be written to account for all eventualities. This is not an 'anchor baby' case because it seems that the mother did not use the child to claim residence/citizenship in Japan; the mother lives in Thailand and the youth, living in Japan, has apparently been separated from her for some time. Remember that he has spent his whole life in Japan and he is now in his teens; he is culturally Japanese (and may even be indistinguishable from any Japanese you pass on the street in Tokyo). He is not responsible for this situation--he has done nothing wrong himself--so we must ask ourselves whether this punishment (i.e., exile, banishment) is really fair under these particular circumstances. Does it make sense to tear someone away from everything they know---the culture, the friends, etc.---for a crime committed by someone else?

 

 

The specific term you are looking for with regards to the rule of law is "Mens Rea", roughly translated as "guilty mind".

 

That is, it is not only the result of one's actions that matters, it is also the intent that plays a role. In no conceivable way could this 16 year old have intended to cause his mother to work illegally in Japan. So holding him reaponsible is a very dubious action.

 

Not all laws require intent, but those that do not are usually well intended but prone to over use. (Fun Fact: you can be guilty of a Federal crime in the US for using the wrong color plastic bag -- see the Lacey Act and a the real life cases related to it) 

 

Now, this is more of a Western concept, so this deportation makes more sense in line with Japan's historical view on collective punishment.

[cyberfarang]

13 hours ago, new2here said:

 

That's true about some of the former Cambodian-born, legally adopted children.... but.... like the case of the Korean-born, US adopted adult, as I read/remember it, those Cambodian-born US-adopted adults committed serious crimes, which under law, make them eligible for removal.

So, while I agree that the "punishment" is very severe, I can't overlook that the genesis to their US removal proceedings was based on their adult criminal actions - and not rooted in their original country of birth.




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I remember some years ago watching a documentary about this.

 

These Cambodian youths and some in their early 20s were hardened members of street gangs, many being drug dealers and even murderers. Most could not speak Cambodian and had been brought up in American type ghetto environments.  They were deported from the States to Cambodia as undesirable aliens, placing dangerous American brought up street gang ghetto criminals onto the streets of Cambodia where they continued to operate in gangs and peddle their drugs.

[optad]

19 hours ago, Raymonddiaz said:

Poor Yankee99 ...Living in a foreign country and hating foreigners living in his own country. Pathetic. 

 

The beauty of a succinct, on topic and direct slap. Poetry.

[Howitzer]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I remember some years ago watching a documentary about this.

 

These Cambodian youths and some in their early 20s were hardened members of street gangs, many being drug dealers and even murderers. Most could not speak Cambodian and had been brought up in American type ghetto environments.  They were deported from the States to Cambodia as undesirable aliens, placing dangerous American brought up street gang ghetto criminals onto the streets of Cambodia where they continued to operate in gangs and peddle their drugs.

 

yup read about this before.

 

Imagine that bringing street crime of the US to cambodia but then again cambodia being cambodia poor and all i suppose cambodian kids speaking piss poor khmer and committing crimes on their streets isn't a big deal.

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, jm91 said:

Read my post very carefully. I point out that the rules themselves are racist. If the Japanese want to believe that they are a superior race and have laws that enforce that view..that is their choice. Please read and think about the content of my posts before responding. 

Hey i've got a bad toothache, cant sleep, my water pump has broken down and my ATM card doesn't seem to be working, i can be forgiven for being a little aggressive. 

[optad]

Cannot see how this gets by the UN charter on child rights.  If Japan is a signatory just cannot see deportation as legally possible.

 

However, of the 42 articles in that charter, none specifically address's this situational problem. This child's situation is not unique in recent times either. It may be that this case reciprocally forces the UN to get a bit snappy on dating furniture. 

https://www.unicef.org.au/Upload/UNICEF/Media/Our work/childfriendlycrc.pdf

[bristolgeoff]

japan are tuff on this and rightly so,they don,t have a problem like many parts of the world like the uk or Europe with all the illegals.they ship them back straight away no messing

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Raymonddiaz said:

they are real citizens whether you like it or not. They have the same rights and obligations. The world is a small village my man ?.

Yes, they are real citizens all right even when the terrorism starts, quite a few European countries have suffered from it.

[Howitzer]

58 minutes ago, bristolgeoff said:

japan are tuff on this and rightly so,they don,t have a problem like many parts of the world like the uk or Europe with all the illegals.they ship them back straight away no messing

 

I have noticed a lot of farang love to make comparisons with their own countries and somehow expect other countries to adopt the same standards and rules as them. Like they let in rapefugees into their countries Asian countries like Japan, Thailand are supposed to do the same. Shiat like that

[Diena]

On 12/7/2016 at 6:46 AM, Nerone said:

a country more racist than thailand...

Get Real  

[Docno]

10 hours ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

 

 

The specific term you are looking for with regards to the rule of law is "Mens Rea", roughly translated as "guilty mind".

 

That is, it is not only the result of one's actions that matters, it is also the intent that plays a role. In no conceivable way could this 16 year old have intended to cause his mother to work illegally in Japan. So holding him reaponsible is a very dubious action.

 

Not all laws require intent, but those that do not are usually well intended but prone to over use. (Fun Fact: you can be guilty of a Federal crime in the US for using the wrong color plastic bag -- see the Lacey Act and a the real life cases related to it) 

 

Now, this is more of a Western concept, so this deportation makes more sense in line with Japan's historical view on collective punishment.

"Now, this is more of a Western concept, so this deportation makes more sense in line with Japan's historical view on collective punishment."

 

I agree with what you say except for, perhaps, that last statement. Psychological studies (by Richard Nisbett, etc). have shown that Westerners tend to be more categorical in their judgements than Japanese, while Japanese tend to be more contextual and flexible. In other words, westerners tend to see things more in terms of black v white, good v bad, etc. ... we like to put things into categories and we don't like inconsistency. So we can only hope this aspect of Japanese cognition will come to the fore....  

[elgordo38]

18 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

I would refer to the former middle-class jobs that American Citizens used to do, before Rich People (who can hire pool-cleaners, maids, and gardeners) decided that they could save a few bucks by flooding the labor-market with poor people who bid-down pay to the lowest wage.  Building contractors and others got in on the act, and destroyed former middle-class careers in construction, food-packing, etc.  Wages have fallen so far, that one now needs government-handouts + the paycheck to survive in many of these destroyed careers - and many other careers now, which were flooded with citizens pushed out of the former.

 

See the words of Farm Union Labor Leader Caesar Chavez for why illegal-immigration is harmful.  It has nothing to do with race (to others playing that card) and, in fact, is disproportionately harmful to people of color, as well as legal immigrants.

 

So-called "birthright citizenship" in the USA was created to provide citizenship to freed slaves, who had paid a steep price for it.  Immigrants, by contrast, cannot claim their ancestors built the country where they reside.  Citizenship is, at its root, a form of inheritance.  The "Chan" case opened birthright-citizenship to "legal immigrants."  A footnote in another case has given "de-facto" expansion to the children of "illegal immigrants."  It would only take one case brought to the Supreme Court to end this practice - not a Constitutional-amendment, as many claim.

 

The film referenced is befitting the Hollywood mindset - the types of people who love that cheap labor, and like to pretend they are "compassionate" as they destroy the lives and families of millions of citizens, who do not have the right to live and work anywhere else.

Thanks for the fleshout a good read. 

[miruph]

And then there is the US of A. That is what they do for decades. There is a documentary about the guy in this story and other people sent "home" even after serving the army. Understandably not available in English language. Nothing was explained to their mothers regarding citizenship or naturalization.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/william-suess-thought-he-was-an-american-until-the-day-he-wa?utm_term=.tukk0PPED#.ir9mellNM

[Dipterocarp]

On 12/7/2016 at 2:42 PM, Mr Big said:

Well,

looking at the demographics in Japan their decision is stupid. Either the Japanes change their laws about immigration, their racist thinking and behaviour

or the Japanese people will be a dying breed. In 2015 Japan had almost 130 Million people. Japan's population will keep declining by about one million people every year in the coming decades, which will leave Japan with a population of 42 million in 2110 . The problem of overaging will be dramatic. Average life expectancy is already now over 80 years.

 

On the other hand I believe Thailand should be glad to welcome back a - I believe- a well educated member in the Thai Society.

Bad for Japan - Good for Thailand.

 

 

The Japanese could solve a demographic problem though mass illegal and legal immigration but perhaps the have looked at the result such policies have had in the "West"

 

Process would be accelerated in Japan and result in the demise of their unique culture in a few decades.

 

[MaiChai]

I wonder if this youth would become stateless? Can't think he has a Thai passport as he has lived his whole life in Japan. So if he was kicked of Japan without a passport to go anywhere, what would happen?

[Dipterocarp]

His Nationality is not in question. 

[Richard W]

On 07/12/2016 at 3:37 AM, the guest said:

Foreigners have the same treatment, if your born in Thailand you are not subject to Thai citizenship if either parent is not Thai.

Having one Thai parent suffices for Thai citizenship.