Grammar Q's and A's

[Johpa]

Same reason why some people think "Y'all" is a word.

Of course, it's a word. It's the second person plural, previously called you as opposed to the singular, thee. The possessive form is y'all's."

I always reckoned that Y'all was said to a small group of peoples and Y'alls was said to a large groups of peoples.

And Y'all's ought to knows I was seriously be thinkin of when I gets back to Chiang Mai this coming summer of invitin Blondie ups to the house for drinks, but now me's thinkin, after readin this thread, twice about that idear.

[Doza]

How much less?

Not tenuous at all.

[autonomous_unit]

Dave: Of course, it's a word. It's the second person plural, previously called you as opposed to the singular, thee. The possessive form is y'all's."

That's odd, I've been told unambiguously by Texans that "y'all" is singular and "all y'all" is the plural.

By the way, I completely agree with the previous long-winded post about "have you eaten." However, as a native Californian, I expect people to use it the way that is described as the British usage. I would only expect "did you eat" in a factual discussion, e.g. about someone's trip or experience, unrelated to finding out whether they are hungry now.

[gpt]

Eg.

"I couldn't care less if my girlfriend leaves because I hate her"

“left”, not leaves, please.

--

Maestro

errr no

errr yes

It is a conditional sentence. This would happen if that happened. I am assuming that in the example that there should be a 'me' between the 'leaves' and 'because'. Let's omit the 'because I hate her'. It would make sense to say 'I couldn't care less if my girlfriend leaves the toilet seat down' or '....the light on'. .

Edited December 8, 2006 by gpt

[Neeranam]

When referring to two people should you say, 'sons of a bitch', 'son of a bitches', or 'sons of bitches'? I'd say the first one but I've usually heard the second.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(VanZam @ 2006-12-07 19:12:38)

QUOTE(maestro @ 2006-12-07 18:59:22)

QUOTE(Doza @ 2006-12-07 10:42:02)

Eg.

"I couldn't care less if my girlfriend leaves because I hate her"

“left”, not leaves, please.

--

Maestro

errr no

What about,

'I could care less if my girlfriend left me'

[davidjtayler]

When referring to two people should you say, 'sons of a bitch', 'son of a bitches', or 'sons of bitches'? I'd say the first one but I've usually heard the second.

I guess it depends whether they were brothers or not ...

If brothers then sons of a bitch

If unrelated then sons of bitches

If Siamese twins then son of a bitch

It's not a very polite thing to say that's all I know...

[bendix]

When referring to two people should you say, 'sons of a bitch', 'son of a bitches', or 'sons of bitches'? I'd say the first one but I've usually heard the second.

If they're brothers (ie, sons of the same bitch) then you'd use the first example. The second doesnt make any sense.

If they're not brothers (ie, each are a son of a DIFFERENT bitch), then you'd use the third.

And this is Thailand related, because I'm sitting here in a Silom office.

[autonomous_unit]

edit: oops, I posted the same thing someone else just said...

Edited December 8, 2006 by autonomous_unit

[grtaylor]

Missing letters apostrophe - used to denote that one or more letters/numbers is missing - 'phone for telephone, '90's for 1990's. Although phone is now accepted in its own right.

Contracted apostrophe - It's for it is or it was, won't for will not.

Must relate a story a friend of mine tells, where he saw outside a greengrocer's shop in the UK a sign advertising the sale of apples - Golden Deliciou's . . . . . . .

G

[PeaceBlondie]

Dave: Of course, it's a word. It's the second person plural, previously called you as opposed to the singular, thee. The possessive form is y'all's."

That's odd, I've been told unambiguously by Texans that "y'all" is singular and "all y'all" is the plural.

Shirley, you jest. Well, some of us Texans are more odd and more unambiguous than the other Texans. Obviously, you is singular, and y'all is plural. My silly use of the possessive (meaning that which belongs to all of you) was y'all's, which would not be used in written Texan.

Teaching in Thailand is a big deal. Lots of farang teachers are in Thailand, teaching English to Thais. If I didn't think hard, I would ask my students, "Have y'all finished the work yet?"

[samtam]

What about,

'I could care less if my girlfriend left me'

I would say that was American English. In English we say "couldn't care less". Similarly we say " getting off the train", whereas Americans say "getting off of the train". We say "he was really pissed off", whereas Americans say "he was really pissed", (which to us means he was drunk). I say tomato, you say tomayto....

[terry57]

Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet, go out on a limb, throw my hat in the ring, take a chance....and start a topic about that terrible subject that bothers us all, English grammar.

Post your questions and what you think are the answers, here, please. And please don't flame anybody unless they're a native speaker pretending to be an expert, and you've got a Ph.D. in English grammar, using flawless writen English in your posts. Okay?

Let me start with one of the three problem areas which, if written incorrectly when I was in my senior year of high school, would have earned me a perfect zero (failure) on an essay:

Its, it's. The word without an apostrophe its is a personal pronoun (pronominal adjective), referring to "something that belongs to it." Example: the door fell off its hinges. The word with the apostrophe, it's - well, it's a contracted form meaning it is. It's hard to describe.

A thing does not have it's money. Please realize that most readers will see the apostrophe and assume you've just written the short form of 'it is.'

Feel free to offer your opinion. Or ask the question. Let's make this educational, and more or less painless.

Should you say "Did you eat?" or "Have you eaten?" Is there any difference in your home country between "I will do it" and "I am going to do it"? Does it matter if you end a sentence with a preposition when you want to hang around? Will a particple die if it dangles or is misplaced? Who, me? Whom, I?

sorry mate but i think WRITTEN is written with a double T.

sorry about bringing that up.

[booma]

I have no problem with its and it's because I was taught that an apostrophe replaces a missing letter. What I do have a problem with is when it's necessary to put an apostrophe at the end of a word. Is it something to do with plurals?

It's not correct to use apostrophes in normal plurals, we would write Jeans not Jean's. We would for special plurals such as MP's or The 1960's.

We use apostrophes before the possessive -s ending of nouns when there is only one of the nouns ie the girl's father or the lady's handbag.

We use apostrophes after the possessive -s ending of nouns when there are many of the nouns ie the students' magazine or a three miles' walk.

This is British Engllish, American English may, of course, be different.

[booma]

Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet, go out on a limb, throw my hat in the ring, take a chance....and start a topic about that terrible subject that bothers us all, English grammar.

Post your questions and what you think are the answers, here, please. And please don't flame anybody unless they're a native speaker pretending to be an expert, and you've got a Ph.D. in English grammar, using flawless writen English in your posts. Okay?

Let me start with one of the three problem areas which, if written incorrectly when I was in my senior year of high school, would have earned me a perfect zero (failure) on an essay:

Its, it's. The word without an apostrophe its is a personal pronoun (pronominal adjective), referring to "something that belongs to it." Example: the door fell off its hinges. The word with the apostrophe, it's - well, it's a contracted form meaning it is. It's hard to describe.

A thing does not have it's money. Please realize that most readers will see the apostrophe and assume you've just written the short form of 'it is.'

Feel free to offer your opinion. Or ask the question. Let's make this educational, and more or less painless.

Should you say "Did you eat?" or "Have you eaten?" Is there any difference in your home country between "I will do it" and "I am going to do it"? Does it matter if you end a sentence with a preposition when you want to hang around? Will a particple die if it dangles or is misplaced? Who, me? Whom, I?

sorry mate but i think WRITTEN is written with a double T.

sorry about bringing that up.

Two T's is correct

[Crossy]

a three miles' walk.

Just to confuse, I (an I suspect many others) would say "it's a three mile walk" or "it's three miles walk" (without the "a")

I don't really care, I get irked by:-

To, too, two

There, their, they're

"Could of"

There are others that I'm too lazy to recount.

Oh, and those drongos that use a comma (,) instead of an apostrophe ('), it just looks wrong.

[gpt]

I have no problem with its and it's because I was taught that an apostrophe replaces a missing letter. What I do have a problem with is when it's necessary to put an apostrophe at the end of a word. Is it something to do with plurals?

It's not correct to use apostrophes in normal plurals, we would write Jeans not Jean's. We would for special plurals such as MP's or The 1960's.

We use apostrophes before the possessive -s ending of nouns when there is only one of the nouns ie the girl's father or the lady's handbag.

We use apostrophes after the possessive -s ending of nouns when there are many of the nouns ie the students' magazine or a three miles' walk.

This is British Engllish, American English may, of course, be different.

Groups of initials or numbers do not need an apostrophe therefore MPs, CDs and DVDs are all correct - British English - If you were to put it in, how would you write 'the office of the MP'? You cannot put it thus 'the MP's office' as there is only one MP, 'the MPs' office' would signify that there is more than one MP in the office.

Now for your second point. What do you ask for when you go out to buy a ruler that is 12 inches long? Do you ask for a twelve inch ruler or a twelve inches ruler? The 'students' magazine' is it a magazine for students or one magazine shared by many students? If it is the former then it would be student's. Read my previous posts in this thread

Before I posted I saw Crossy's post - in lazy speak, the 'have' in 'could have' sounds similar to 'of' and a lot of people these days write as they hear.

Edited December 8, 2006 by gpt

[sibeymai]

Shouldn't the title of this thread read:

You can argue "the" fine points here ?

[the scouser]

Eg.

"I couldn't care less if my girlfriend leaves because I hate her"

“left”, not leaves, please.

--

Maestro

Surely this calls for the subjunctive:-

"I couldn't care less if my girlfriend were to leave because I hate her."

Scouse.

[wilko]

I think it's worth bearing in mind that there are no rules in English, only conventions. The result is the biggest number of words in a language, most widely used, and a huge variety of forms. It's very difficult to say someone is wrong in English, just unconventional...PS how many vowels in English? About 37 at the last count! Isn’t that more than Thai?

[booma]

a three miles' walk.

Just to confuse, I (an I suspect many others) would say "it's a three mile walk" or "it's three miles walk" (without the "a")

"it's a three mile walk" would be the better of the two, but i was only using it as an example for you to use in any way you'd like, you could say, "I went on a three miles' walk." or "A three miles' walk is not too long."

[gpt]

a three miles' walk.

Just to confuse, I (an I suspect many others) would say "it's a three mile walk" or "it's three miles walk" (without the "a")

"it's a three mile walk" would be the better of the two, but i was only using it as an example for you to use in any way you'd like, you could say, "I went on a three miles' walk." or "A three miles' walk is not too long."

a three miles' walk.

Just to confuse, I (an I suspect many others) would say "it's a three mile walk" or "it's three miles walk" (without the "a")

"it's a three mile walk" would be the better of the two, but i was only using it as an example for you to use in any way you'd like, you could say, "I went on a three miles' walk." or "A three miles' walk is not too long."

The only was that I would use your example of the 's in "three miles' walk" is how not to use the possessive apostrophe or to demonstrate the greengrocers' apostrophe.

Now, can you answer the points that I brought up in post 77?

[wilko]

three mile walk adjectival prhrase or compound adjective formed from 2 words three and mile

three miles' would be a walk of three miles so some form of possessive adj phrase. Ithink if you don't think about it you'll find nuances of meaning there.

[Doza]

I couldn't care less about 3 mileses' walk's. My thread has been hijack'd.

[Kilgore Trout]

Is anyone familiar with the term "jeet?"

Canya figure it out?

"Jeet yet?"

"naw"

"Yont to?"

[Kilgore Trout]

a three miles' walk.

Just to confuse, I (an I suspect many others) would say "it's a three mile walk" or "it's three miles walk" (without the "a")

I don't really care, I get irked by:-

To, too, two

There, their, they're

"Could of"

There are others that I'm too lazy to recount.

Oh, and those drongos that use a comma (,) instead of an apostrophe ('), it just looks wrong.

Ahh, but are those three country miles or regular miles?

Have you ever heard that?

How far is it?

Just about a mile up the road.

[gpt]

Is anyone familiar with the term "jeet?"

Canya figure it out?

"Jeet yet?"

"naw"

"Yont to?"

Already been asked on this thread and answered - posts 27 & 28

Country mile - a great distance, much longer than a mile.

Edited December 8, 2006 by gpt

[Neeranam]

Shouldn't this thread be on ajarn.com?

[dantilley]

Here's one, which we were discussing at work when writing text for a website.

Should a special offer for some free hotel rooms be written:

"Win 2 nights accommodation"

"Win 2 nights' accommodation"

or "Win 2 night's accommodation"

We settled on the second one at the time, but weren't really 100% sure it was correct.

[Kilgore Trout]

Here's one, which we were discussing at work when writing text for a website.

Should a special offer for some free hotel rooms be written:

"Win 2 nights accommodation"

"Win 2 nights' accommodation"

or "Win 2 night's accommodation"

We settled on the second one at the time, but weren't really 100% sure it was correct.

Is there a difference between the last two?