Renting co-op "condo" from the co-op itself in Pattaya ? ?

[bow]

I once rented a co-op "condo" unit for one year in Nonthaburi. The co-op was quite large; they owned twelve six-floor buildings. The area was very classy, spotlessly clean, with a swimming pool and gym. Back then only about 50% of the units were sold. The rest were rented out by the co-op itself to anybody able to pay the deposit  +  one months rent. 

 

 Do you have this system in Pattaya ?

( Maybe I should point out that I am not asking about renting from an individual owner of a unit, but from the co-op itself.)

 

 

 

[newnative]

I haven't heard of this system in Pattaya.  I do know of at least one condo where the developer kept  several floors of the building for himself to rent as apartments.

[bow]

Thanks. Well, this explains why I haven't been able to find any. 

 

Maybe I should explain why the co-op board decided to do this. 1. They believed that  some people renting units would love the place so much that they would want to buy one. 2. They wanted to fill up the place with people so that it would not  be obvious that half of the units were still unsold.

[digbeth]

Co-op means that it'd need members right? so who are the members of these co-op? other owners in the condo? what do members have to gain by joining this co-op, usually in a co-op members get to buy at discounted price and enjoys the shared profits when they sell to outsiders... how would this work with condos?

Interesting system 

[LongTimeLurker]

I suspect the OP may mean a Condotel.

[digbeth]

Had a look around and there are many projects including housing developments by a co-op

 

Apparently the co-op acts as the developer, building the house/condo and sells to members at cost, any profits is paid back as dividend

 

Maybe they get cheaper finance too

[newnative]

4 hours ago, digbeth said:

Had a look around and there are many projects including housing developments by a co-op

 

Apparently the co-op acts as the developer, building the house/condo and sells to members at cost, any profits is paid back as dividend

 

Maybe they get cheaper finance too

Any examples of Pattaya  condo-type co-ops (not houses)?  I hadn't heard of any before.   Wonder how the 49% foreign ownership thing would work.  Thanks.

[digbeth]

I'd only to manage to find a housing project type one in Soi Khao Noi, on the dark side 

and a couple of Navy ones down in Bang Saray, no Condos 

 

They're just about a level up from Government housing 

Anything as decently run to the level in OP's post is probably Lumpini condos, which has pretty good management and try to maintain a sense of community, but it's owned by individual owners, only that some rent out via the Juristic person/Management. Although most of their rooms, size and build quality is probably not up to 'western' standards here as it's geared towards working class/ lower middle class Thais/first time buyers

[KittenKong]

 

Lumpini Beach in Jomtien has a big sign advertising units for rent monthly. I dont think that these are individually owned, and it may be that the developer still owns them and rents them out. Something similar happens in other buildings not far away.

 

I dont think that fully sold condo buildings are allowed to conduct large scale rental businesses as this presumably would cause them to turn a profit which is not their purpose. Even acting as rental agents for co-owners would be dodgy ground, I think.

[Basil B]

A Condominium is a development where a "co-owner" owns one or more apartments or houses,  they also own a share of the communal such as hallways, grounds, pools, gyms, lifts, even the offices, co-owners are also responsible for paying a maintenance fees which covers the cost of maintenance and staff, the condominium managed by the "Juristic Person" who will probably have a staffed office and there will also be cleaners, security and maintenance. 

 

The condominium will also hold Regular AGMs, which will hear reports from the JP and elected committee, co-owners will have an opportunity to vote on certain matters such as appointing members to the managing committee, maintenance fees, and other matters.

 

The point I am trying to make is the general office may offer other services such as managing room rental but such services would have to be available to all co-owners without any owner getting preferential treatment, there are a lot of laws/rules governing the managing of condominiums to protect co-owners.

 

I was a co-owner for a few years and a far as I know the General office did not directly manage apartments but every member of staff would know someone who has apartments for rent, for sale or wants to buy., when I sold my apartment I had to go to the general offices to get a "Free of Debt" letter,  the lady asked me how much I was selling for, (I know the price was low but it was a quick sale), when I said every one in that office was straight on the phone to people they knew wanted to buy, all pleading with me to talk to their friends. 

 

Fact is anyone who wants to rent or buy should visit the general office as there is a lot of info to be had and one can judge how well a condominium is run, and I am sure the staff will be more than happy in recommending units for rent or sale. 

 

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Lumpini Beach in Jomtien has a big sign advertising units for rent monthly. I dont think that these are individually owned, and it may be that the developer still owns them and rents them out. Something similar happens in other buildings not far away.

 

I dont think that fully sold condo buildings are allowed to conduct large scale rental businesses as this presumably would cause them to turn a profit which is not their purpose. Even acting as rental agents for co-owners would be dodgy ground, I think.

 

I am sure the office could offer services that make a profit and any profits could be used to subsidise the maintenance fees, problem would be the general office has a lot of other business such as collecting maintenance fees,  electricity and water, post, general enquiries, complaints, running the building so other services would mean more staff would have to be employed.

 

We also had notice board outside with cards advertising units for sale or rent.

 

I also know of condominiums that had Real Estate agent owning or renting a shop/office within a condominium. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Basil B

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Basil B said:

I am sure the office could offer services that make a profit and any profits could be used to subsidise the maintenance fees, problem would be the general office has a lot of other business such as collecting maintenance fees,  electricity and water, post, general enquiries, complaints, running the building so other services would mean more staff would have to be employed.

 

We also had notice board outside with cards advertising units for sale or rent.

 

I also know of condominiums that had Real Estate agent owning or renting a shop/office within a condominium. 

 

Many buildings have a noticeboard and real estate agents on the premises, including mine, but the building is not directly involved with condo rentals.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Lumpini Beach in Jomtien has a big sign advertising units for rent monthly. I dont think that these are individually owned, and it may be that the developer still owns them and rents them out. Something similar happens in other buildings not far away.

 

I dont think that fully sold condo buildings are allowed to conduct large scale rental businesses as this presumably would cause them to turn a profit which is not their purpose. Even acting as rental agents for co-owners would be dodgy ground, I think.

If I may respond to 2 posts at once.  With Lumpini, I think digbeth is not quite correct that their condos are all geared to the lower class working Thais.  Many of them are, but not all.  Lumpini 24 condo in Bangkok would be one geared more to middle class and up.  Lumpini Jomtien is actually 2 separate and completely different projects.  Lumpini Park Beach (blue buildings) is beachfront and much more upscale than a typical Lumpini project and it has more amenities than Lumpini Seaview, which is the 2 green buildings behind it.  Park Beach offers a variety of large and small condos--28sqm to 150 sqm--and prices up to around 12MB or more. Geared to well-off Bangkok people looking for a weekend getaway place.   The Lumpini rental office can handle rentals for owners but I don't think Lumpini owns any of the units.  Lumpini Seaview is mostly 22 and 26sqm condos with some double units.  It is my understanding that one owner bought all the units on the top 2 floors of one of the buildings and these units are being  managed and rented out by Lumpini.  I think the big sign you see advertising condos for rent for 8000 Baht a month is referring to these units.  The rental office takes a commission when a condo is rented but the owner will get the rental income.

[bow]

Thanks again, there seems to be a few places after all. I'll check it out.

 

I might add that I have recently spent a couple of months in Surat Thani. Down there it is standard practice for developers to  rent out unsold units.

As for the difference between co-ops and condos maybe, for example, somebody from New York City can explain it. He might even have some funny horror stories about crazy co-op boards.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

On 1/13/2017 at 9:38 PM, KittenKong said:

I dont think that fully sold condo buildings are allowed to conduct large scale rental businesses as this presumably would cause them to turn a profit which is not their purpose. Even acting as rental agents for co-owners would be dodgy ground, I think.

 

Unless they are registered as condotels, i.e. condo hotels where the developer sells units and rents out those that are not sold.

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Unless they are registered as condotels, i.e. condo hotels where the developer sells units and rents out those that are not sold.

 

I dont think the condo juristic person can register as a condotel or hotel. I think the hotel part of the building is legally entirely separate from the condo part. Look at developments like Movenpick and the Waterfront.

 

And I was repeatedly told by our lawyers that the juristic person cannot involve itself in owning units and conducting rentals as a business activity. Even acting as a rental agent they said would be very dubious as this is not the function of a condominium juristic person. I believe that this is why most buildings have rental agencies performing this function. Look at places like the Base, and the Lumpini building discussed above.

[impulse]

With the Thai 51% of many condo's being undersold, I can't imagine that the developers who haven't sold those units yet (and may not sell them for many years) wouldn't put them up for rent- especially in resort communities.

 

They can't sell 'em to foreigners.  But they can rent them to foreigners.  

[newnative]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

I dont think the condo juristic person can register as a condotel or hotel. I think the hotel part of the building is legally entirely separate from the condo part. Look at developments like Movenpick and the Waterfront.

 

And I was repeatedly told by our lawyers that the juristic person cannot involve itself in owning units and conducting rentals as a business activity. Even acting as a rental agent they said would be very dubious as this is not the function of a condominium juristic person. I believe that this is why most buildings have rental agencies performing this function. Look at places like the Base, and the Lumpini building discussed above.

I agree.  Lumpini Seaview and Lumpini Park Beach are separate entities with their own condo committees, budgets, etc.  The rental office is now at Seaview and, I believe, handles both properties but the rental office is in a physically separate office space from the Juristic office, although in the same building.  I think once a condo project is legally registered as a condominium at the Land Office, it would be illegal to have a hotel component. This is why short term rentals are illegal in condominiums, as they are legally registered as a condominium and not a hotel.  I suppose a developer could rent out unsold condos if the leases were for at least a month or more.

[LongTimeLurker]

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 11:02 PM, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Unless they are registered as condotels, i.e. condo hotels where the developer sells units and rents out those that are not sold

 

 

 

.http://blog.findyourspace.co/2015/09/what-are-condotels-in-thailand/