redwinecheese Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, pumpuy said: I do not like war , I do not like aggressions by whatever side , I do not like apparent injustice , and I find the efforts to justify what is nit just , disgusting ! me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, pumpuy said: Yes , I know we are living in a world full of injustice , selfishness , greed etc ... of course I support the tibetian people , but they are by far not as powerful as the Israelis Eh ? You have to compare the Palestinians to the Tibetans and the Israelis to the Chinese Both China and Israel are Countries, whilst Tibet and Palestine are not Countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, sanemax said: Eh ? You have to compare the Palestinians to the Tibetans and the Israelis to the Chinese Both China and Israel are Countries, whilst Tibet and Palestine are not Countries But they should be countries . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, pumpuy said: But they should be countries . But the question was : Why did the poster boycott all Israeli products and not boycott all Chinese made products ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I would definitely disregard last post because it will only expose more stupid replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 some people here are like cats when ever you corner them they find another way to run ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, sanemax said: But the question was : Why did the poster boycott all Israeli products and not boycott all Chinese made products ? Would be more hard to boycott everything chinese , as nearly everything is chinese made bny now ... but as you say , the question was ... but now the new question is the old one : Why not make peace ? Why continue the aggressions and wait for the foreseeable responses just to get a reason to hit back even harder ? Disgusting . Make peace , work together for a better world , people around the world would respect the Israelis for this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, pumpuy said: Make peace , work together for a better world , people around the world would respect the Israelis for this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, pumpuy said: Why not make peace ? Why continue the aggressions and wait for the foreseeable responses just to get a reason to hit back even harder ? Disgusting . Making peace with people who want to eradicate you is not a sensible thing to do . It would be very likely that the Palestinians would use their Country to wage war against Israel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, sanemax said: Making peace with people who want to eradicate you is not a sensible thing to do . It would be very likely that the Palestinians would use their Country to wage war against Israel . Just now, sanemax said: Making peace with people who want to eradicate you is not a sensible thing to do . It would be very likely that the Palestinians would use their Country to wage war against Israel . Palestinians would have no means to ever win a war against Israel , and they know this . Just another lame excuse ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 On 1/23/2017 at 2:26 AM, Credo said: Well, this is interesting. I was afraid that the ME might slide off the front page and that we might not hear contentious news out of Israel/Palestine. You're kidding. Benny is chucking petrol on the fire and Trump has got the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, pumpuy said: Palestinians would have no means to ever win a war against Israel , and they know this . Just another lame excuse ... They have tried numerous times in the past 60 years , what makes you think that the future will be any different . Saudi and Iran would supply them with missiles and high tec weaponry to attack Israel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, sanemax said: They have tried numerous times in the past 60 years , what makes you think that the future will be any different . Saudi and Iran would supply them with missiles and high tec weaponry to attack Israel . I think they know that they could not win a war against Israel . I think , deep inside they want peace despite all that hate . It would take some time , ok , but it is possible , I' m sure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, pumpuy said: I think they know that they could not win a war against Israel . I think , deep inside they want peace despite all that hate . It would take some time , ok , but it is possible , I' m sure . Are you projecting your own feelings onto them ? You are being quite naive if you think them getting a country would mean everyone will be happy and live happily ever after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpuy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, sanemax said: Are you projecting your own feelings onto them ? You are being quite naive if you think them getting a country would mean everyone will be happy and live happily ever after Let the israelis make the first step to show their will to make peace , and negotiate ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, sanemax said: Saudi and Iran would supply them with .... Not a reality. Palestinians are Sunni Muslems as is Saudi. Iran is Shia. These religions do not mix well as seen in Iraq and are polar opposites in controlling Muslim populations such as in Palestine. Case in point. The Yemen civil war is a Sunni government supported by Saudi versus a Shia rebel force supported by Iran. Unfortunately, Trump has yet to understand the difference in these two Muslim factions - he just sees Muslims. Hopefully his Secretary of State can help craft some meaningful (aka "smart") foreign policy towards Palestine that won't embarrass Trump before world leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Srikcir said: Not a reality. Palestinians are Sunni Muslems as is Saudi. Iran is Shia. These religions do not mix well as seen in Iraq and are polar opposites in controlling Muslim populations such as in Palestine. Case in point. The Yemen civil war is a Sunni government supported by Saudi versus a Shia rebel force supported by Iran. Unfortunately, Trump has yet to understand the difference in these two Muslim factions - he just sees Muslims. Hopefully his Secretary of State can help craft some meaningful (aka "smart") foreign policy towards Palestine that won't embarrass Trump before world leaders. Iran has been funding both Hamas and Hezbollah and arming them to wage war against Israel to the tune of 100s M $ and this is for weaponry with the goal of creating an Islamic state instead of Israel, what makes you think Iran will stop without all their goals being fulfilled ?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, sanemax said: Iran has been funding both Hamas and Hezbollah and arming them to wage war against Israel to the tune of 100s M $ and this is for weaponry with the goal of creating an Islamic state instead of Israel, what makes you think Iran will stop without all their goals being fulfilled ?, After years of alignment with Shiite Iran and its Arab allies, the Palestinian Hamas group is bidding for Sunni patronage from Saudi Arabia in a dramatic shift to its geostrategic orientation [from Shiite Iran]. http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-hamass-embrace-of-sunni-saudi-arabia-a-slap-to-iran/ Recall that Saudi Arabia and Israel are trade and security partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Srikcir said: After years of alignment with Shiite Iran and its Arab allies, the Palestinian Hamas group is bidding for Sunni patronage from Saudi Arabia in a dramatic shift to its geostrategic orientation [from Shiite Iran]. http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-hamass-embrace-of-sunni-saudi-arabia-a-slap-to-iran/ Recall that Saudi Arabia and Israel are trade and security partners. Iran and Hamas ties soured when Hamas sided with the Syrian rebels fighting against Irans long time ally , Assad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, sanemax said: Nope, they want an Islamic state with Sharia law to replace the whole of Israel, that is Hamas goal . It is clearly written in the Hamas Charter And you think Hamas defines all Palestinians? Does Bibi define the character of all Israelis? Are all Americans aligned with the Donald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 6 hours ago, ddavidovsky said: How wrong you are. The conflict is the root cause of a sense of humiliation that has caused Muslims worldwide to pit themselves against the west in an effort to reassert themselves and recover pride. It is certainly the root cause of today's terrorist attacks against the west. Note I said the root cause. The discontent has now spread like cancer and into other areas. Understand too that this conflict is eternal. The hostility between the sides is biblical. 'The world' (meaning nowadays the UN), should have understood the global turmoil that would ensue if the Jews took over Palestine. Unfortunately the west's politicians are idiots and the UN is useless, and the Jews are clearly hell bent on grabbing that land at any cost to world peace. Israel is now a historical fait accompli. However, the West Bank isn't yet.The only way out of eternal conflict is for Israel to offer the olive branch and give Palestine independence. The logic in all this is obvious to any impartial observer with a grasp of sociology. That's may very well be you own view, it is by no means a fact. There is little to tie every instance of ME violence and Islamic terrorism to Israel's existence or to the ongoing predicament of the Palestinians. Again, disregarding your disgusting terminology. The conflict is not "eternal" by any standards. One side wasn't even around during biblical times. Most of the strife is relatively recent, in historical terms. Holding that Israel should not have existed and claiming the mantle of an "impartial observer" is a dishonest position, if not a surprising one. Peace requires two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, RuamRudy said: And you think Hamas defines all Palestinians? Does Bibi define the character of all Israelis? Are all Americans aligned with the Donald? No, they were elected in Gaza, think they got over 70 % of the vote there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, pumpuy said: Wow , you put a lot of effort in your post , must be personally concerned ...? Anyway , I said : ' I will not buy anything produced in Israwel any more " . That means from NOW ON , I will check where somethig was produced before I buy it . But thanks for your tips on what to avoid ... Anyway , my OS is Linux 18 , no windows BS , I do not watch stupid Hollywood movies , I live healthy and do not need to take any medication , I travel mostly with Emirates who certainly do not have Israeli built Taxibots in Dubai , and so on ... I am not a racist , I am aware of the fact that there are some good people living in Israel as well even if they seem to be a minority . Anyway , I am free to live the live I want , and that's what I am doing , but when I see a cat , I call it a cat and not somethig different . I mean Israeli politics creates extremism , thats a fact , even if you do not like it . I mean Israeli politics creates extremism , thats a fact , even if you do not like it . And here's another fact, one which you may not like - Israeli politics is neither a unified proposition nor does it exist in a vacuum. If you believe that Palestinian positions have nothing to do with it, then you are not calling a cat something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, RuamRudy said: Your last sentence is a totally nonsensical statement in the context of this debate. On the one hand, you question how much experience the OP has of Israel and Israeli life as if to suggest that he may not be sufficiently qualified to make any 'judgement', but then you feel sufficiently knowledgable about the OP to suggest that he does not take a position on other global events. How many people alive today were party to the 1947 talks? If they had a direct hand in this situation, I could at least sympathise with the Israeli point of view. However the people of Palsetine are, today, being punished for the mistakes of their grandfathers. Well, to continue the previous line of thought - there you go with these topics: posters can't directly address the OP, can't even get their facts straight and go off on a tangent bringing up any half-related issue. With regard to the latter part of your post - the Palestinian position did not change for decades following the 1947 partition plan. So the same views and the same positions were held by successive generations. What you ask for is not usually afforded, at least not on these topics, with regard to Israelis - they seem to be held responsible for anything their forefathers supposedly did. If anything acknowledging mistakes and sins of the past is more of a "thing" in Israel, relatively little of the same among Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, geriatrickid said: They are on fire for this. Sing it. Sing it loud. Sing it every day. Sing it now. Hahahaha Too funny. Where were you for the past 5 years during the Syrian civil war? How about when your pal Ghaddaffi was slaughtering his people? What did you do during the Darfur genocide? And yet, here you are with your bogus outrage. Yes, you go and get those people. Put on your Euro holier than thou armchair warrior hat and give them he11. Crock of crap, crocodile tears. @ddavidovsky is among those supportive of Assad's regime. Somehow making allowances for Assad is seen as legitimate and reasonable, not so in other cases, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, RuamRudy said: You don't believe that their goals are similar to our own - security, peace, prosperity and opportunity for them and their loved ones? Sure, everyone, on either side, wants "security, peace, prosperity and opportunity for then and their loved ones" - but differ on how these things are to be realized. Assuming that all, or even most, are willing to accept the concessions and compromises which could make such a future come about is a fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, sanemax said: Nope, they want an Islamic state with Sharia law to replace the whole of Israel, that is Hamas goal . It is clearly written in the Hamas Charter Hamas does not represent all of the Palestinians, pretty much as no Israeli political party represents all Israelis. The Hamas view may, or may not, be upheld by most Palestinians but it still wouldn't make it an all inclusive proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, redwinecheese said: Just stop building illegal settlements first , then everything else is negotiable. End of thread for future generations to reopen debate again. That might be your own position, it is not exactly the Palestinian one (inasmuch as there is a unified Palestinian position on these matters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, pumpuy said: Yes , I know we are living in a world full of injustice , selfishness , greed etc ... of course I support the tibetian people , but they are by far not as powerful as the Israelis , alone , they can't change much ... but the Israelis could , if they wanted to ... but they apparently do not want . I am just saying what I am thinking about the roots of a long conflict , I am sure if the Israelis wanted peace , if would only take them a small effort and some concessions to make peace . But they do not want , if you see what they are doing . I do not like war , I do not like aggressions by whatever side , I do not like apparent injustice , and I find the efforts to justify what is not just , disgusting ! My opinion is based on what I read as news , mostly BBC , and I do not hink that the journalists just write fake news to discredit Israel . So I do not need to listen to always the same blabla , as we are all used to this , and it does not change the facts anyway . The Palestinians could have had peace back in 1947 or anytime afterwards, and on much better terms. Their rejectionist stance was not altered up until the early 1990's, and even then - to a degree. Yet somehow, all your supposed digging at the roots of the conflict seem to be focused on the Israeli side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Morch said: That might be your own position, it is not exactly the Palestinian one (inasmuch as there is a unified Palestinian position on these matters). That is what would lawyer of devil say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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