President Trump signs order to build Mexico border wall

[Andaman Al]

33 minutes ago, rijb said:

 

How many hotels and casinos has the border patrol chief built?

And Trump built those without paying the contractors as well.

 

So is a high grade secure wall the same as building a casino? Odds are with the wall but only 1% in favour of the wall? Will this wall be like all the casino's Trump built? An industry where owning a casino is a dead cert winner yet every time Trump had one, the Casino failed. Will this wall fail? I guess so.

[mrfill]

10 hours ago, teatree said:

Then every country in the world is xenophobic. 

 

I wish there were no need for borders and visas but in the real world there is.  I went to India last year and I needed a (very expensive) visa.  I don't like having to do this but I accept there is a logic and reason for it.

 

What is wrong with enforcing a border and issuing work visas as and when needed?  I'm not sure a border fence is practical given the vast distance but if it is then I just see it as common sense.

 

The EU has a land border with Morocco and has very tall fence to keep out economic migrants.  Don't remember anyone calling them out for being xenophobic:

 

 

What utter drivel.

Morocco is in Africa and its border with Europe is similar to that between Cuba and Florida. To do the journey over land is about 4200km.

 

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Mr0Yallow said:

555, and it is quite likely the contractors hired to build the wall will use illegal Mexican immigrants to build it, make them live in company housing, then when it is time to pay them they will have them deported just like some Halliburton contractors did during the Katrina clean-up. trumpalumpa promises? a joke. where are his tax returns? when will he divest himself of his corporations? He has never explained how he will get Mexico to pay for the wall? Mexico flatly states they will not pay for it. 

Ah ha... I was wondering how he would get them to pay for it.... unpaid Mexican labor... now all is clear

 

brilliant!

[Mr0Yallow]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So how would you secure the border to prevent illegal immigrants, illegal migrant workers, drug traffickers, people traffickers, criminals and anybody who fancies from coming and going as they please?

First of all, many illegal immigrants come here legally, It is a fact that illegal immigration has slowed down significantly as American jobs have disappeared and the minimum wage jobs that illegals took are often filled by Americans now. most migrant workers, (farm workers) are here legally using H2 Visas. a picture is posted below showing a tunnel with rails built by drug traffickers. Human traffickers, Other than the Coyotes many human traffickers are American citizens or legal residents.  one great way to stop Illegal Immigration is to enforce existing Illegal Employer legislation, oh wait, that might cut into the graft corporations & lobbyists pay members of congress. 

[Naam]

30 minutes ago, mrfill said:

 

What utter drivel.

Morocco is in Africa and its border with Europe is similar to that between Cuba and Florida. To do the journey over land is about 4200km.

 

you are wrong my friend and TV-member Teatree is right. there is a common EU/Morocco border, namely the Spanish enclave Ceuta located in Morroco. here's a picture of the fence:

 

 

[Naam]

[farcanell]

I built a wall round my place ???

 

i must be crazy too.

Edited January 26, 2017 by farcanell

[rijb]

54 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

And how much does Trump know about the border?  Has he even ever been there?

 

The border is 1,974 miles long, about 650 of which have already been fenced.  That leaves a little over 1,300 miles of wall to be built.  Best estimates range from $15 billion to $25 billion cost of materials for a 10 foot high wall or double fence - not including labor, cost of land acquisition, ongoing maintenance, and based on reasonably accessible land and building conditions, which doesn't exist for much of the remaining land. This thing could easily run over $75 billion dollars and take a decade to complete.

 

It would represent the largest single engineering project in US history, dwarfing such feats as the Hoover Dam, which cost $750 million in 2016 dollars.

 

There is flat out no way that such an amount can be squeezed out of the US budget, no matter how hard they cut elsewhere.

 

 

That wasn't my question.     Pick a number from 0 to 100.

[mrfill]

12 minutes ago, Naam said:

you are wrong my friend and TV-member Teatree is right. there is a common EU/Morocco border, namely the Spanish enclave Ceuta located in Morroco. here's a picture of the fence:

 

 

OK so Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish exclaves and have a similar land border to Cuba and the US at Guantanamo

[rijb]

56 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

And Trump built those without paying the contractors as well.

 

So is a high grade secure wall the same as building a casino? Odds are with the wall but only 1% in favour of the wall? Will this wall be like all the casino's Trump built? An industry where owning a casino is a dead cert winner yet every time Trump had one, the Casino failed. Will this wall fail? I guess so.

 

That wasn't my question.  Go preach to somebody else.  

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

"Gaming the System" = carrying over losses from one year to the next - standard US tax-code practice.  No small business and many large business could stay in business otherwise.

 

He has already said he will donate all profits from hotel-bookings of foreign-governments to the Dept of the Treasury, so that he will not profit from - and hence be influenced by - where they stay.  His businesses are not a bunch of stock he can easily put in a blind-trust, and whoever bought them, if he did sell them, would be potentially buying influence by doing so.  It's a catch-22.  In any case, he never promised to sell all his assets, and anything remotely resembling buying influence via Trump assets will be heavily scrutinized.

 

Read his financial disclosures made at the beginning for details on his money/assets.  Tax returns reveal far less - especially the bits and pieces most candidates have traditionally released.  The people who voted for Trump did not do so to "see his taxes" - they did so to elect the only candidate, in either party, who claimed to be committed to ending both the national-suicide trade deals and the labor-flood immigration policies, which have combined to inflict severe economic-damage upon millions of US-Citizen families. 

All he had to do was put his assets into a blind trust. 

[rice555]

2 hours ago, Mr0Yallow said:

Hey I have a fantastic, GREAT Idea, the greatest idea ever... How about spending the money he will spend building a wall on ENFORCING existing laws penalizing ILLEGAL Employers? I recall there is a mandatory minimum fine of $5000 US against employers for each illegal worker found. NO excuses. 

Why not do what the crazy drug laws did ?    "asset forfeiture" if you hire/use illegals!

rice555 

Edited January 26, 2017 by rice555
word replacement

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, dcutman said:

Apparently you just stepped into this conversation without reading the entire content.

The original claim, was that 40% of illegal immigrants fly into the US. For that reason a the proposed border wall is and will be ineffective.

I am not disputing there are a large number of visa over stayers that are now illegal, I am merely calling BS on false claims by unreliable and bias sources the original poster cited as fact.

I just cant accept Jorge Ramos's personal opinion, from Mexican Univision, a reliable source for facts.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/sep/06/john-carter/john-carter-claim-40-percent-nations-illegal-resid/

[Naam]

19 minutes ago, mrfill said:

OK so Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish exclaves and have a similar land border to Cuba and the US at Guantanamo

Guantanamo is a Cuban municipality of which a small part is leased to the US whereas Ceuta and Melilla are de jure and de facto Spanish soil.

[55Jay]

44 minutes ago, farcanell said:

I built a wall round my place ???

 

i must be crazy too.

Must be, because according to many pundits in the US, walls "don't work". 

[Jingthing]

trump plans to skim off the wages of poor Mexican workers who are already horribly exploited in the USA to pay for his vanity wall. This is unacceptable and a violation of human rights. Build the wall? OK but pay for it. You don't humiliate a proud people to pay stuff for you. Not in my name. I am 100 percent on the side of Mexico on this against the fascist bully nutcase president of the USA. This is also a horrible insult to U.S. citizens that are Mexican. 

Yes the USA is in a much stronger position on this which is another reason trump should not be such a piggish BULLY against our friend, our neighbor Mexico. I'm ashamed of my president. His policies are for the most part totally DISGUSTING. 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Jingthing

[rijb]

Remember the Alamo!

[JackThompson]

48 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

All he had to do was put his assets into a blind trust. 

"All" = sell everything, because he knows what the assets are.  How would he put a "Trump Hotel" in a blind-trust?  This is not the same as someone with stocks.  

 

What Dick Cheney did with his Halliburton assets - retained while Halliburton had active govt-contracts generating a fortune on a war - was far more of a direct conflict of interest, yet was permitted by law. 

 

5 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Do you honestly believe that he will donate the proceeds of hotel revenues gained from foreign government to the USG? Come on, nobody is that naive.

Do you really think, to grab a few measly more bucks, in the twilight of his life, Trump will weaken his presidency?  Be sure he will make a huge show of turning over those checks to show what a "great guy" he is.  Think about it.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

Must be, because according to many pundits in the US, walls "don't work". 

You gotta also include a rabid guard dog too... that helps ?

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

trump plans to skim off the wages of poor Mexican workers who are already horribly exploited in the USA to pay for his vanity wall. This is unacceptable and a violation of human rights. Build the wall? OK but pay for it. You don't humiliate a proud people to pay stuff for you. Not in my name. I am 100 percent on the side of Mexico on this against the fascist bully nutcase president of the USA. This is also a horrible insult to U.S. citizens that are Mexican. 

Yes the USA is in a much stronger position on this which is another reason trump should not be such a piggish BULLY against our friend, our neighbor Mexico. I'm ashamed of my president. His policies are for the most part totally DISGUSTING. 

 

 

Maybe he is going to redirect the federal monies from those sanctuary cities, to build the wall.

[Thakkar]

9 hours ago, thaihome said:

This is just one of many simple answers to extremely complex issues that appeal to certain types of people. This is the core attraction to populist demogugary. If indeed the way to solve these complex issues was so simple, such as building a 1,800+ mile wall, don't you think these simple solutions would have already been applied to these issues that have been around for decades?

 

The lack of critical, rational, logical thinking continues to be apparent. How Trump and his supporters react to the pressure and criticism of the continued pointing out of theses mental deficiencies is going to be very interesting. 

TH 

On Trump's "American Carnage" inaugural speech:

 

But there was nothing for those hoping to see a more pragmatic, moderate President Trump take office, or to hear him admit that the world is complex and less pliable than he pretended on the campaign trail. All populists are at heart conspiracy theorists, who pretend that easy solutions exist to society’s woes and have only not been tried to date because elites are wicked and deaf to the sturdy common-sense of decent, ordinary folk.
That was the Trump approach.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2017/01/american-carnage

 

 

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Maybe he is going to redirect the federal monies from those sanctuary cities, to build the wall.

Did you hear that?

That kind of thing would inflame an already civil war mentality among totally DIVIDED Americans.

[TerrylSky]

Ezzra, Trump has both: a lot of money and a big mouth.

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Did you hear that?

That kind of thing would inflame an already civil war mentality among totally DIVIDED Americans.

Lol.... No... you heard it here, first.

 

but he will need to get the money from somewhere... and it's crazy to think Mexico will contribute... so I was doing some crazy out of the box thinking, as it seems to be the theme of the week.

[Thakkar]

One of the demagogue's tools is to play up a problem (real or otherwise) and proceed to offer, in vague terms, a solution. Vague, because giving details may expose the demagogue's ignorance of the details or allow critics to poke holes in the plan such as "that's been tried" (because most methods have in fact been tried, and continue to be refined and employed).

 

Illegal immigration is hard to measure. One of the few ways it can be assessed is the number of arrests and the trend in those numbers. 

 

In the aftermath of 9/11, even as border security, enforcement budgets and efforts to apprehend illegals were beefed up, "the number of Border Patrol apprehensions declined 61 percent from 1,189,000 in 2005 to 463,000 in 2010." ( https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Apprehensions by USBorderPatrol 2005 to 2010.pdf )

Latest figures are unavailable, but the indications are that the downward trend has continued.

 

Illegal immigration simply isn't the problem it once was and it continues to be brought under control. This is what the data from the Dept of Homeland Security tells us. You can choose to ignore it and believe Trump instead. (Maybe DHS is funded by the Clinton Foundation?)

 

The only thing Trump will do is play up the latest data and claim credit for "solving" a problem that is already being progressively brought under control.

 

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Lol.... No... you heard it here, first.

 

but he will need to get the money from somewhere... and it's crazy to think Mexico will contribute... so I was doing some crazy out of the box thinking, as it seems to be the theme of the week.

Right. I didn't think so. Anyway, he's already said he wants to spend it first and get fantasy reimbursed by Mexico later. It will be a test of his power in Congress as they probably don't want to spend the massive amount it would cost when there are other security measures that lack the symbolism that would achieve similar or better results.

[apalink_thailand]

The last report I read indicated that the vast majority of illegal immigrants arrived at US international airports legally and just overstayed their visas. They didnt walk in, they flew in. The wall is a big joke and a waste of money. Idiots.

[apalink_thailand]

4 hours ago, mrfill said:

 

What utter drivel.

Morocco is in Africa and its border with Europe is similar to that between Cuba and Florida. To do the journey over land is about 4200km.

 

its even closer. Spain has enclave towns on the Moroccan coast that belong to Spain (Ceuta and Melilla). A ferry runs from there to Spain.

[Opl]

 

Christo wall of oïl drums

On April 6, 1999 the wall of 13,00 oil barrels 85 feet high and 223 feet wide with a depth of 23.7 feet was completed. Located in the Gasometer in Oberhausen this indoor installation designed by Christo and Jeanne-Claude spanned wall to wall in the Gasometer.

The 208 liter capacity barrels were connected to a core made of a steel scaffolding structure in which they were bolted.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Opl

[Thakkar]

7 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Christo wall of oïl drums

On April 6, 1999 the wall of 13,00 oil barrels 85 feet high and 223 feet wide with a depth of 23.7 feet was completed. Located in the Gasometer in Oberhausen this indoor installation designed by Christo and Jeanne-Claude spanned wall to wall in the Gasometer.

The 208 liter capacity barrels were connected to a core made of a steel scaffolding structure in which they were bolted.

 

 

If this is what Trump's wall will be like, I'm guessing that each drum facing the American side will have a smiley face 

and each drum facing the Mexican side will have a frowning face