mogandave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Apparently we all agree there is Vitoria fraud.Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 And we can all agree that there are winners of lotteries. Therefore, we can all get rich by playing the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, mogandave said: Apparently we all agree there is Vitoria fraud. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect I presume you mean voter fraud. Since nobody claimed there is none, congratulations, it only took you 60 posts to reach that very obvious conclusion. Now ask yourself the question, why do some powerful people keep on harping about this virtually non existent problem, that has no effect whatsoever on any election? I do play the lottery BTW, and keep hoping. Edited February 12, 2017 by stevenl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Now ask yourself the question, why do some powerful people keep on harping about this virtually non existent problem, that has no effect whatsoever on any election? Because he's got very thin skin? There really is only one powerful person who keeps tweeting about this "problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Dagnabbit said: How about New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/us/illegal-voting-gets-texas-woman-8-years-in-prison-and-certain-deportation.html?_r=0 Still fake news? Apparently not an intentional fraudster seeking to criminally favor a candidate. Brought to this country by her mother as an infant, raised in Texas as her only place of residence, integrated into American society as legal resident. “She can own property; she can serve in the military; she can get a job; she can pay taxes. But she can’t vote, and she didn’t know that.” So yes, she was ineligible to vote, but the extreme sentencing appears to be "an extreme egregious overreaction, made to score political points ...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Apparently not an intentional fraudster seeking to criminally favor a candidate. Brought to this country by her mother as an infant, raised in Texas as her only place of residence, integrated into American society as legal resident. “She can own property; she can serve in the military; she can get a job; she can pay taxes. But she can’t vote, and she didn’t know that.” So yes, she was ineligible to vote, but the extreme sentencing appears to be "an extreme egregious overreaction, made to score political points ...."Apparently she voted five times, so while may have believed she was entitled to vote, it is not likely she believed she was entitled to vote five times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Srikcir said: Apparently not an intentional fraudster seeking to criminally favor a candidate. Brought to this country by her mother as an infant, raised in Texas as her only place of residence, integrated into American society as legal resident. “She can own property; she can serve in the military; she can get a job; she can pay taxes. But she can’t vote, and she didn’t know that.” So yes, she was ineligible to vote, but the extreme sentencing appears to be "an extreme egregious overreaction, made to score political points ...." I think she did know it. There's certainly evidence that she did. But, clearly she's not too bright (I could take a cheap shot here and note that she voted Republican but I won't...oops) and certainly wasn't part of some organized movement to commit voter fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I presume you mean voter fraud. Since nobody claimed there is none, congratulations, it only took you 60 posts to reach that very obvious conclusion. Now ask yourself the question, why do some powerful people keep on harping about this virtually non existent problem, that has no effect whatsoever on any election? I do play the lottery BTW, and keep hoping.I did mean voter fraud. Like all fraud, you only know about what you catch, so the idea that anyone can say with any level if certainty that it is or is not significant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 While this lady clearly knew what she was doing...still a non-issue, really only being used to justify losing the popular election, undermine people's faith in the election process, discourage people from voting in the future and to enact further voter suppression laws. Trump supporter charged with voting twice in Iowa A woman in Iowa was arrested this week on suspicion of voting twice in the general election, court and police records show. Terri Lynn Rote, a 55-year-old Des Moines resident, was booked Thursday on a first-degree charge of election misconduct, according to Polk County Jail records. The charge is considered a Class D felony under Iowa state law. Rote was released Friday after posting $5,000 bond. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Nov. 7. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/29/trump-supporter-charged-with-voting-twice-in-iowa/?utm_term=.808f6d53895c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I think she did know it. There's certainly evidence that she did. But, clearly she's not too bright (I could take a cheap shot here and note that she voted Republican but I won't...oops) and certainly wasn't part of some organized movement to commit voter fraud.I could take a cheap shot and say that's why the sentence was so severe, but I won't... That reminds me of when people makes excuses, then apologize and say they will not make excuses.Anyway, who cares how she voted? The issue is not how she voted, but that she voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, mogandave said: Apparently she voted five times, so while may have believed she was entitled to vote, it is not likely she believed she was entitled to vote five times. I think she voted five times, in five different and distinct elections over a lengthy time period. Your observation seems to infer that she voted five times in one single election. Does this represent "massive organized voter fraud"? Probably not. Trump handily won in Texas, by ~ 700,000 votes and +9%. Assuming this woman voted for Clinton... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, mogandave said: I could take a cheap shot and say that's why the sentence was so severe, but I won't... That reminds me of when people makes excuses, then apologize and say they will not make excuses. Anyway, who cares how she voted? The issue is not how she voted, but that she voted. The question is, what issue are you referring to? That there is such a thing as voter fraud? Who disputes that? Or that voter fraud is being conducted on the massive scale that Trump contends? If that is the case, then hard evidence point to an overwhelming negative. Or maybe you've got some evidence that thousands of voters were bussed in from Massachusetts to vote in the New Hampshire election? Are you backing Trump up in that assertion? And yet, are you somehow as reluctant as the President to divulge that evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, mogandave said: Apparently she voted five times, so while may have believed she was entitled to vote, it is not likely she believed she was entitled to vote five times. I believe you are referring to (in the article) "A woman in Brownsville, Tex., was placed on five years’ probation for casting five absentee ballots under different names in elections in 2012." Nowhere in the article does it say Ms. Ortega voted five times, ie., either consecutively in the same election nor in five different elections. It only states that she voted in the 2012 and 2014 elections - nothing more. As she voted in person, it is highly unlikely that she was able to re-enter the same voting venue associated with her place of legal residence to receive additional ballots to vote as Ms. Ortega. So the evidence is that she truly believed that she was an eligible voter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, mogandave said: I did mean voter fraud. Like all fraud, you only know about what you catch, so the idea that anyone can say with any level if certainty that it is or is not significant Youre missing the main question, why harping on about this non existent problem. As somebody said, a thin skin is an explanation, but also some members of Congress are into this. I am convinced it is to influence the next elections, and make it more difficult to vote, which would favour the Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said: It's not that it absolutely never happens. It's just so rare that it's statistically insignificant. LMAO. First it was, "there's no evidence that it ever happens". Now it's "well, hardly ever...". 555555555555 As many as 20 million illegals (thousands actually having committed crimes serious enough to have been incarcerated in state and federal facilities) and what you're now trying to sell is that this particular crime hardly ever happens. hahahahahaha Yeah, I'm sure she's about the only one. Right. OK. Too funny. What you MEAN to say is that up until now there was no "statistically significant" political will to actually investigate voter fraud. Well, I think the worm may be getting ready to turn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, hawker9000 said: LMAO. First it was, "there's no evidence that it ever happens". Now it's "well, hardly ever...". 555555555555 As many as 20 million illegals (thousands actually having committed crimes serious enough to have been incarcerated in state and federal facilities) and what you're now trying to sell is that this particular crime hardly ever happens. hahahahahaha Yeah, I'm sure she's about the only one. Right. OK. Too funny. What you MEAN to say is that up until now there was no "statistically significant" political will to actually investigate voter fraud. Well, I think the worm may be getting ready to turn... Do I need a megaphone to get through to you? Once again for your benefit, 5 states run entirely by republicans conducted massive investigations for voter fraud. They certainly didn't lack motivation. And the certainly came up with next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said: Do I need a megaphone to get through to you? Once again for your benefit, 5 states run entirely by republicans conducted massive investigations for voter fraud. They certainly didn't lack motivation. And the certainly came up with next to nothing. No, what you need, well, isn't really being manufactured yet. Newsflash: there are 50 (fifty; 5-0; 5x10; one more than 49) states, not all of them with "statistically significant" number of illegals hanging around. And being "run entirely by republicans" doesn't necessarily mean a thing, since even if true, republicans have to stand for re-election and must maintain their PCness.... Anyway, what are the five? I assume they're all "statistically significant". Let's give that phrase "entirely run by" a little exercise, shall we? "Came up with next to nothing" doesn't necessarily equate to "nothing". Don't worry chaps, only some of you had your legitimate votes negated by completely fraudulent voters not even in the country legally. Trust me, it was only a few. Not to worry. Have some more kool-aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 How hard would it be to draft and sign an Executive Order directing the AG/DoJ to conduct a full and thorough investigation of his own "beliefs" re: massive voter fraud? Other than some foreign governments trying to manipulate an election outcome, I can't think of a more important action to investigate? Assuming you have some reasonable reasons to believe such a thing happened. It just seems like whenever he wants to emphasize his mandate he trots out these delusional complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said: How hard would it be to draft and sign an Executive Order directing the AG/DoJ to conduct a full and thorough investigation of his own "beliefs" re: massive voter fraud? Other than some foreign governments trying to manipulate an election outcome, I can't think of a more important action to investigate? Assuming you have some reasonable reasons to believe such a thing happened. It just seems like whenever he wants to emphasize his mandate he trots out these delusional complaints. Voting is regulated by the states, which do their own thorough investigations about every other year. No executive order needed. And it's been proven voter fraud is very rare. It does happen, but is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, mogandave said: So you support going after absentee ballot voter fraud? Actually, not. While there are probably more fraud cases there, they are still so statistically insignificant that they don't amount to anything much. And there is also a case connected to our own current attorney general to consider. Sessions had 3 civil rights workers prosecuted on the grounds that they had submitted falsified absentee ballots. This was back in 1985. Ultimately, the judge dismissed about half the charges and after about 4 hours the jurors found the defendants innocent of the rest. It ws probably the main reason why the Republican controlled Senate rejected his nomination to be a federal judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, craigt3365 said: Can you show a link for that? Please. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/01/voter_fraud_exists_through_absentee_ballots_but_republicans_won_t_stop_it.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/01/voter_fraud_exists_through_absentee_ballots_but_republicans_won_t_stop_it.html From the article: Quote Mail-in ballot fraud is still relatively rare, but it isn’t as imaginary as in-person fraud. ....... Voter fraud exists. It’s not a major problem, but it’s also not a phony problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagnabbit Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Illegal immigrant voting.... He should claim "no evidence" in court, eh? http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2017-02-10/urbana-man-charged-living-voting-us-illegally.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 22 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said: Illegal immigrant voting.... He should claim "no evidence" in court, eh? http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2017-02-10/urbana-man-charged-living-voting-us-illegally.html There's a mathematican named John Allen Paulos who coined the word "innumeracy". He used it as the mathematical counterpart to "illiteracy". Like illiteracy, it's a curable condition. So there's hope for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagnabbit Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said: There's a mathematican named John Allen Paulos who coined the word "innumeracy". He used it as the mathematical counterpart to "illiteracy". Like illiteracy, it's a curable condition. So there's hope for you. Sadly, there's no cure for being a smart@rse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 It might be well to remind certain posters that this article is about a Federal Election Commission official asking Donald Trump for evidence to back up his claim that thousands of voters from Massachusetts voted illegally in Massachusetts and that's why he and Kelly Ayotte lost. Anybody care to defend his claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Voting is regulated by the states, Administered perhaps, but busing people across state lines - which is the basis of this "story" - to commit felonies is just the sort of vast left-wing criminal conspiracy/activity that the DoJ/AG are empowered to look into. But other than a few nut-jobs most responsible people across the political spectrum seem to think these "claims" are the delusional rantings of someone who apparently still doesn't seem to understand that he "won". Maybe his family or Steve Bannon can talk him down on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opalred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 every time i see or here his name on TV i change channels the wife is Thai her and friends do the same on there Thai TV my family and friends in oz say they do the same what message does that tell the usa people when will they wake up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 So, in conclusion: Trump has come out with some whoppers about voter fraud, because he doesn't like the fact that he lost the popular vote. He said he would set up a commission to investigate. He hasn't. Now he's had his bluff called. Is that about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Chicog said: So, in conclusion: Trump has come out with some whoppers about voter fraud, because he doesn't like the fact that he lost the popular vote. He said he would set up a commission to investigate. He hasn't. Now he's had his bluff called. Is that about it? LOL. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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