TM30 subnission

[sjbrownderby]

A Canadian friend is moving to our village and intends to rent a house from my brother-in-law. We completed the TM30 form together with the addendum showing his details (passport, visa etc). Also completed was the 'Power of Attorney' form which was duly signed and witnessed. I understood that this POA form negates the need for the owner of the property to attend immigration but the officer at Korat (Dan Kwien) immigration insists my brother-in-law attend in person to register (for the first time of registration) my friend as staying at my BIL's property. Information on the Thai Immigration bureau website says that the notification can be made " Through an authorised person at the respective office ". Clearly in this case they are not accepting the person authorised by the POA.  

 

Has anyone else come across this problem?

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by sjbrownderby

[ubonjoe]

If the office insists on the owner appearing in person there is not much that can be done about it.

You should also note that the info you quoted on the immigration website is under this heading "Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses".

[sjbrownderby]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

If the office insists on the owner appearing in person there is not much that can be done about it.

You should also note that the info you quoted on the immigration website is under this heading "Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses".

I accept that but how is it possible that my brother-in-law's renting of his house to my friend does not constitute a business arrangement? On that point the Thailand Immigration bureau is vague. So far as I can see Sect 38 of the 1979 Immigration Act does not mention "Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses" and it is only when you click on a link titles " Notification of residence of foreigners " that you actually get to a page which says " Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses" The wording of the act mentions "Master, owner or possessor of the residence or hotel manager" The master, owner or possessor of a property may not necessarily run a business to accommodate a foreigner. That person could be a friend or family member so the heading on the  Thailand Immigration Bureau website is misleading because the reporting requirement does not just apply to businesses and the 1979 act does not specify businesses either. 

 By saying that I quoted from the website under the heading  "Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses" you intimate that there may be another section which apples to those other than businesses who need to register a foreigner staying at their property. I can find no such information on the Immigration Bureau website. Perhaps you can reply with the link to this information if it exists.

 

[mngmn]

22 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

...Thailand Immigration Bureau website is misleading...

I may be wrong, but I always proceed on the basis that anything on a Thai Government web site may, or may not be correct. In any case, the local official sitting across the desk from you, is not bound to follow the stated "rules" and can implement any variations to the "rule" that they see fit.

 

Works for me.

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

By saying that I quoted from the website under the heading  "Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses" you intimate that there may be another section which apples to those other than businesses who need to register a foreigner staying at their property. I can find no such information on the Immigration Bureau website. Perhaps you can reply with the link to this information if it exists.

I think that the info only mentions businesses because it was done long before they started enforcing the TM30 for homeowners. At one time they were only enforcing it for businesses with only rare cases of them actually wanting it from homeowners.

[sjbrownderby]

4 hours ago, mngmn said:

I may be wrong, but I always proceed on the basis that anything on a Thai Government web site may, or may not be correct. In any case, the local official sitting across the desk from you, is not bound to follow the stated "rules" and can implement any variations to the "rule" that they see fit.

 

Works for me.

My friend completed his paperwork and registration at Korat immigration and they did indeed implement variations which cost him a donation to the tea money fund, with no receipt given of course. He got the outcome he wanted so he is reasonably happy.

[sjbrownderby]

I have now found out why the immigration officer wanted my brother-in-law there in person. He wanted to establish how long my friend had been staying at his house (even though the TM 30 stated that it would be from today) and would fine him accordingly for not reporting sooner but since my friend only looked at the house last night, and had not actually moved in, the officer seems to have been disappointed. This officer did actually speak to my brother-in-law by phone and never mentioned that as the reason why he must attend. He told my BIL by phone that for the first time of reporting he must attend in person. This officer obviously must have thought that my friend was already staying at the house and that therefore the report had not been made within the specified 24 hours. He was wrong and people have been inconvenienced as a result. 

[55Jay]

I have to go there tomorrow and throw myself on the mercy of the court.  I moved into a rental last month but didn't report and I know my landlord, who lives in Pattaya, didn't.    My annual extension is due in 10 days as well, so this is going to be fun.

[Lieberdavid]

I am traveling out of Thailand next week and will return to Chiang Mai by air on Saturday. I have to file a TM 30 within 24 hours but the immigration offices will be closed until Monday. I am able to report myself as a house owner but cannot use online  reporting.

 

1. What should I do?

 

2. What immigration office should I use?

 

Thank you.

[sjbrownderby]

21 minutes ago, Lieberdavid said:

I am traveling out of Thailand next week and will return to Chiang Mai by air on Saturday. I have to file a TM 30 within 24 hours but the immigration offices will be closed until Monday. I am able to report myself as a house owner but cannot use online  reporting.

 

1. What should I do?

 

2. What immigration office should I use?

 

Thank you.

You can also report to the police. At the bottom of (part one) the TM 30 is a receipt which can be completed by the police and returned to you so you have proof that you reported.

[55Jay]

6 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

You can also report to the police. At the bottom of (part one) the TM 30 is a receipt which can be completed by the police and returned to you so you have proof that you reported.

Since you've been through this with Korat, for the TM30, what else is required from the house owner?  Thai ID copy, house book, etc?

 

 

[sjbrownderby]

1 minute ago, 55Jay said:

Since you've been through this with Korat, for the TM30, what else is required from the house owner?  Thai ID copy, house book, etc?

 

 

It is all at the whim of the officer asking. I have my own thoughts about what happened yesterday, thoughts which I have not expressed on this forum. The official website Immigration Bureau website is nothing more than a repository of misleading information. Take as much paperwork and copies as you can and they will be almost bound to ask for something you do not have, something about which the official website makes no mention. You say your landlord lives in Pattaya but you did not say where you live. Are you going to Korat immigration regarding your extension?

 

[55Jay]

12 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

It is all at the whim of the officer asking. I have my own thoughts about what happened yesterday, thoughts which I have not expressed on this forum. The official website Immigration Bureau website is nothing more than a repository of misleading information. Take as much paperwork and copies as you can and they will be almost bound to ask for something you do not have, something about which the official website makes no mention. You say your landlord lives in Pattaya but you did not say where you live. Are you going to Korat immigration regarding your extension?

 

Yes, Korat.  They down in Patts.  I've got to do the TM28 which sounds like form + passport copy+rental agreement.  From landlord side, TM30 form+ID and housebook copy..... the Power of Attorney was a new one on me but makes sense but means I won't be attempting this today.  Been trying the Thai Immi site since last night and this morning, it's not responding.  "Isitdown" says it's down as well. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by 55Jay

[sjbrownderby]

1 minute ago, 55Jay said:

Yes, Korat.  They down in Patts.  I've got to do the TM28 which sounds like form + passport copy+rental agreement.  From landlord side, TM30 form+ID and housebook copy..... the Power of Attorney was a new one on me but makes sense.

It is doubtful that they will accept a POA if your landlord did not report your renting of the property within the required 24 hours. They will want him to report in person, so they can extract the 'fine' from him. 

[sinbin]

51 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

You can also report to the police.

Are you 100% sure? Everything is on computer these days and I doubt the police will have a link to Immigration computers. What next, extensions from your local cop shop? Nah.

[mngmn]

16 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

My friend completed his paperwork and registration at Korat immigration and they did indeed implement variations which cost him a donation to the tea money fund, with no receipt given of course. He got the outcome he wanted so he is reasonably happy.

Pleased to hear your friend got a good outcome.

 

In my (humble) opinion, many people on TV take the wrong approach and focus on "the rules" rather than the people involved.  Obeying "the rules" is very important in western culture but less important in Thailand where relationships (and sometimes tea funds) are more important.  Once you accept this, TV an invaluable tool for finding out what to expect at your local immigration office or consulate.

[sjbrownderby]

Just now, sinbin said:

Are you 100% sure? Everything is on computer these days and I doubt the police will have a link to Immigration computers. What next, extensions from your local cop shop? Nah.

Yes, you can report to the police. If you do so you must ensure that they complete the attached receipt and return it to you. There are times when it is impossible to report to your local immigration office within 24 hours, such as at weekends and during public holidays. The fact that the immigration office may be closed at certain times does not negate your responsibility to report nor does it give you an excuse when explaining your failure to report within the specified time. Do not doubt what is correct. Break the law and you will pay........it is THAT simple.

[sinbin]

15 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

Yes, you can report to the police.

Thanks for that reply Sj. I went to my local village cop shop once and asked for an urgent letter to confirm my address. Immigration were closed for a long week-end. The police refused me based on they hadn't got any official stamps to put on the confirmation letter.

Edited March 15, 2017 by sinbin

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, sjbrownderby said:

You can also report to the police.

Good luck finding a police station that will accept the report. Most will not have a clue about what it is for.

Although the form states you can report to the police if there not an immigration office in the area they consider that to mean within the province. Which gives them a reason not to accept it.

 

[sjbrownderby]

12 minutes ago, sinbin said:

Thanks for that reply Sj. I went to my local village cop shop once and asked for an urgent letter to confirm my address. Immigration were closed for a long week-end. The police refused me based on they hadn't got any official stamps to put on the confirmation letter.

No doubt, with the required tea money donation, a stamp would have been found. Also, the police are not a 'full service' entity in the same way as the Immigration Bureau. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by sjbrownderby
Addition

[sjbrownderby]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Good luck finding a police station that will accept the report. Most will not have a clue about what it for.

Although the form states you can report to the police if there not an immigration office in the area they consider that to mean within the province. Which gives them a reason not to accept it.

 

Agreed but they are duty bound to accept the report if the immigration office is closed on a weekend or during public holidays in which case the fact that there is an in-province immigration office would be a moot point given the timing of the requirement.

[sinbin]

9 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

No doubt, with the required tea money donation

Tea money first or after? I always do after. Their loss.

[55Jay]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Good luck finding a police station that will accept the report. Most will not have a clue about what it is for.

Although the form states you can report to the police if there not an immigration office in the area they consider that to mean within the province. Which gives them a reason not to accept it.

 

UJ: Do I have it right on TM30 submission?  Form, housebook and landlord Thai ID copy? 

[sinbin]

It's been said that one can report to a police station if one has no immigration in their area. What areas are not covered by Immigration offices???

[sinbin]

3 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Do I have it right on TM30 submission?  Form, housebook and landlord Thai ID copy? 

Yes and the fine to be paid if it's a late report. Sorry. And the passport of the foreigner staying.

Edited March 15, 2017 by sinbin

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

UJ: Do I have it right on TM30 submission?  Form, housebook and landlord Thai ID copy? 

That should be enough but they could want more dependent upon the office.  Copies must be signed by the landlord.

[55Jay]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That should be enough but they could want more dependent upon the office.  Copies must be signed by the landlord.

Roger, thank you.

[55Jay]

4 minutes ago, sinbin said:

Yes and the fine to be paid if it's a late report. Sorry. And the passport of the foreigner staying.

Thanks.

[mngmn]

1 hour ago, sjbrownderby said:

Agreed but they are duty bound to accept the report if the immigration office is closed on a weekend or during public holidays in which case the fact that there is an in-province immigration office would be a moot point given the timing of the requirement.

And who will "bind" them to their "duty"?