UK Visit Visa - shorter periods improve chances?

[darren1971]

Hello all, and thanks in advance for any help, received great advise from 7by7 last time...

 

Some background:

 

I have been granted 2 uk visit visas in the past (4 years ago) but that relationship has since ended and I now have a new girlfriend. Previously my thai gf had a good job and assets, children etc and both our applications were accepted.

 

My current girlfriend has no work, she lives with her mum and takes care of her, we have had a relationship for 18 months and I have made 4 1 month visits to see her (passport stamps would be the evidence I could supply plus flight tickets in our names from trips within Thailand).

She has no assets, no savings and no children. Never the less I would still like to bring her here (uk) for a short 4/5 week holiday. I will sponsor her, fund all her expenses and trip. I do not send her regular money but have given her a little to help when I have visited her (no evidence of this). Her reason to return is that we don't want to jeopardise any future visa applications and we both would prefer to live in Thailand although I'm not in a situation to emigrate just yet. So we would be hoping to arrange future trips/ visit visas. 

 

I know on paper this has a slim chance of being accepted, at the same time each application is treated on its own merits. Will a weak application more likely to be accepted if the period is shorter....i.e just 4 weeks.

[rasg]

Yes it is.

 

Sending regular money seems to get negative points with an ECO along with an applicant with no job. Most seem to rely on a letter from an employer by the applicant. Looking after an aging Mum seems like a valid job to me but how do they manage financially? I would suggest that you show who will look after her Mum while she is away in your sponsor letter. Also definitely mention that you have been successful with visit visas before without any overstays etc if that is true.

 

Being honest goes a long way and is essential but I've seen applications like this go through with no problems and I've seen stronger applications refused.

Edited April 10, 2017 by rasg

[darren1971]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

Yes it is.

 

Sending regular money seems to get negative points with an ECO along with an applicant with no job. Most seem to rely on a letter from an employer by the applicant. Looking after an aging Mum seems like a valid job to me but how do they manage financially? I would suggest that you show who will look after her Mum while she is away in your sponsor letter. Also definitely mention that you have been successful with visit visas before without any overstays etc if that is true.

 

Being honest goes a long way and is essential but I've seen applications like this go through with no problems and I've seen stronger applications refused.

Thanks,

 

Whats the consensus of mentioning we have discussed marriage and settling in Thailand at some point (i.e neither of us wish to remain in the UK indefinitely) - to go with the not wanting to Jeopardise future visa on the 'reason to return' question.

 

My girlfriend takes direct care of her mum and her brother and sister who both have jobs deal with financing the family

[rasg]

3 hours ago, darren1971 said:

Whats the consensus of mentioning we have discussed marriage and settling in Thailand at some point (i.e neither of us wish to remain in the UK indefinitely) - to go with the not wanting to Jeopardise future visa on the 'reason to return' question.

 

My girlfriend takes direct care of her mum and her brother and sister who both have jobs deal with financing the family

Yes. I always mentioned long term plans in a sentence in my sponsor letter. You really need to mention the brother and sister's jobs too to explain how everything is financed.

[darren1971]

7 hours ago, rasg said:

Yes. I always mentioned long term plans in a sentence in my sponsor letter. You really need to mention the brother and sister's jobs too to explain how everything is financed.

how specific should I get? or does just saying the brother works in a factory and the sister works in an office.. etc etc? is it just a clear outline or will they want to know specific amounts, evidence etc?

[7by7]

Firstly to deal with your topic title; "UK Visit Visa - shorter periods improve chances?"

 

A standard UK visit visa is valid for 6 months; even when the applicant states their visit will be shorter. Obviously, in her application your girlfriend should say how long she intends to visit the UK for, though.

 

The length of stated visit can be relevant, depending upon the applicants circumstances. For example, if they have a job the ECO may be wary of an application saying they will visit for the full six months because most employees in Thailand only get two weeks holiday a year.

 

Essentially, you and she have to show that the three conditions for a visit visa are met.

 

1) A genuine reason to visit the UK.

She is visiting her boyfriend, who has previously visited her 4 times in Thailand. Provide evidence of the relationship. Your visits to her (a photocopy of your passport), evidence of contact whilst you are apart and if you have sent her any money evidence of this and a brief explanation of what the money was for.

 

2) The visit is affordable and she will be supported in the UK without working or claiming public funds.

You, and anyone else who is contributing to the costs of the visit, should provide evidence that you have the funds to do so. Last three months bank statements at least; last 6 months are better.

 

3) She will leave the UK when or before her visa expires.

As she has no concrete reason to return, this could be the tricky one.

 

Your girlfriend doesn't work, except to look after her mum; you say

12 hours ago, darren1971 said:

My girlfriend takes direct care of her mum and her brother and sister who both have jobs deal with financing the family

You say that the length of the intended visit is 4 to 5 weeks; so the first question I would ask were I an ECO is "Who will be taking care of the mother while her daughter is in the UK?" So you and she need to provide a reasonable answer to that.

 

There is no reason why an applicant who doesn't work and is supported by their British sponsor should be refused just for that; I know of couples in that situation who have been successful.

 

12 hours ago, darren1971 said:

Whats the consensus of mentioning we have discussed marriage and settling in Thailand at some point (i.e neither of us wish to remain in the UK indefinitely) - to go with the not wanting to Jeopardise future visa on the 'reason to return' question.

Explain all this in your sponsor's letter. It wont hurt and may help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[darren1971]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Firstly to deal with your topic title; "UK Visit Visa - shorter periods improve chances?"

 

A standard UK visit visa is valid for 6 months; even when the applicant states their visit will be shorter. Obviously, in her application your girlfriend should say how long she intends to visit the UK for, though.

 

The length of stated visit can be relevant, depending upon the applicants circumstances. For example, if they have a job the ECO may be wary of an application saying they will visit for the full six months because most employees in Thailand only get two weeks holiday a year.

 

Essentially, you and she have to show that the three conditions for a visit visa are met.

 

1) A genuine reason to visit the UK.

She is visiting her boyfriend, who has previously visited her 4 times in Thailand. Provide evidence of the relationship. Your visits to her (a photocopy of your passport), evidence of contact whilst you are apart and if you have sent her any money evidence of this and a brief explanation of what the money was for.

 

2) The visit is affordable and she will be supported in the UK without working or claiming public funds.

You, and anyone else who is contributing to the costs of the visit, should provide evidence that you have the funds to do so. Last three months bank statements at least; last 6 months are better.

 

3) She will leave the UK when or before her visa expires.

As she has no concrete reason to return, this could be the tricky one.

 

Your girlfriend doesn't work, except to look after her mum; you say

You say that the length of the intended visit is 4 to 5 weeks; so the first question I would ask were I an ECO is "Who will be taking care of the mother while her daughter is in the UK?" So you and she need to provide a reasonable answer to that.

 

There is no reason why an applicant who doesn't work and is supported by their British sponsor should be refused just for that; I know of couples in that situation who have been successful.

 

Explain all this in your sponsor's letter. It wont hurt and may help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply, I think the main issue will be her life in Thailand, her brother and sister contribute to her mothers living expenses but it appears to be varied amounts and times, she lives in a very small rural community and I'm thinking it may help if I start contributing small amounts directly into her bank. I have been giving her small amounts on visits but it has been cash and so there is no paper trail of this.

[7by7]

It may be worth mentioning that her siblings pay for her mother's care, while she actually provides it day to day.

 

You sending money to support her can help, as it adds to the evidence of your relationship.

 

But I think the main issue will be her reason to return.

 

As I said, plenty of couples where the applicant doesn't work and is supported by their UK resident sponsor have succeeded based upon their future plans and wish not to jeopardise those planes by overstaying a visit.

 

You have to convince the ECO that, on the balance of probabilities, you are the same.

 

The other problem is, as I said, that the reason your girlfriend doesn't work is because she cares for her mother; which I assume, as will the ECO, this means her mother needs full time care. This can, of course, add to her reason to return. But for it to help, you need to explain who will provide this care while your girlfriend is in the UK.

 

 

[darren1971]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

It may be worth mentioning that her siblings pay for her mother's care, while she actually provides it day to day.

 

You sending money to support her can help, as it adds to the evidence of your relationship.

 

But I think the main issue will be her reason to return.

 

As I said, plenty of couples where the applicant doesn't work and is supported by their UK resident sponsor have succeeded based upon their future plans and wish not to jeopardise those planes by overstaying a visit.

 

You have to convince the ECO that, on the balance of probabilities, you are the same.

 

The other problem is, as I said, that the reason your girlfriend doesn't work is because she cares for her mother; which I assume, as will the ECO, this means her mother needs full time care. This can, of course, add to her reason to return. But for it to help, you need to explain who will provide this care while your girlfriend is in the UK.

 

 

Yes I think you're right, I will make all those points clear. I don't think it is a case that her Mother needs full time care, more a case of very limited job opportunities in the area and so my girlfriend helps around the home and general care.

[evadgib]

Past success isn't relevant, given its your gf that is applying & not you- even if you are doing the paperwork 

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Past success isn't relevant, given its your gf that is applying & not you- even if you are doing the paperwork 

 

Although each application is treated on it's own merits, if the applicant has previously made a successful UK, or similar country, visa application and complied with all the conditions of that visa then this can be a positive factor in subsequent applications. Particularly where there is no concrete reason to return.

 

On the other hand, if the applicant has previously been refused, then the reasons for that refusal will have to be adequately dealt with for a subsequent application to succeed.

 

However, in the OP darren1971 says that the two successful applications he was involved with were made by a different applicant, so are irrelevant to his current girlfriend. But, his sponsorship then will probably still be on record, and the ECOs are wary of serial sponsors. So it may be worth mentioning what happened to that relationship in his sponsor's letter this time; but as it was 4 years ago I don't think it's vital to do so.

 

As you rightly say, it is darren1971's girlfriend who is applying, not him!

[rasg]

On 11/04/2017 at 10:20 AM, darren1971 said:

Thanks for the reply, I think the main issue will be her life in Thailand, her brother and sister contribute to her mothers living expenses but it appears to be varied amounts and times, she lives in a very small rural community and I'm thinking it may help if I start contributing small amounts directly into her bank. I have been giving her small amounts on visits but it has been cash and so there is no paper trail of this.

In your shoes I wouldn't put money into her bank and I would simply say that any money she does get is paid in cash and I definitely wouldn't supply any bank statements for her. I've seen a few people in the last six months get into a real mess with an application by putting money into a GF's account in a big lump or by paying money in on a regular basis.

 

23 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You sending money to support her can help, as it adds to the evidence of your relationship.

I don't agree with this at all for the first visit visa. It was fine for my wife's second visa but thinsg have changed in the last two years. I'll see if I can find the wording of the refusal notices.

[darren1971]

Have most of the application together now, if anyone wanted to check if I have made any obvious mistakes it would be awesome!.... I have deliberately tried to keep it brief and concise and only included what I think is relevant to answer the 3 questions.

 

completed online application.

 

visit visa for uk for 6 week stay. Girlfriend is unemployed, no assets and living in the family home.

 

sponsor letter:

I met ********* online in March 2016 whilst staying in Thailand on vacation. We became girlfriend and boyfriend and have since visited her a further 3 times on 1 month visits to Thailand. 

We have travelled to Chang Mai, Thaton, Chiang Dao, Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya together. 

We are planning on getting married in Thailand in 2018 and I would like her to come visit the UK for a holiday before we proceed and am aware that it is important that we comply with the visit visa rules so as not to jeopardise any future visa applications. 

I have been helping to support ******** with money on my visits and recently have started to send money through Western Union.

I run my own business in the UK a restaurant and public house and have done for 8 years. The restaurant has a 3 bedroom flat above and we will be staying here for the duration of the holiday and maybe a weekend in London and Cornwall.

I am paying for all expenses of the trip but will send a small amount to ******* prior to her visit for emergencies during her travel to the UK.

 

Signed: *******

 

 

Applicants letter:

 

I am unemployed and live in my family home with my Mother, Brother, Sister in law and their two children. The house is rented and my brother and sister help support the family financially. My boyfriend ******* has recently started sending me a small amount to help by International money transfer and I have attached evidence of this to this application. I wish to visit the UK for a holiday as we are planning to marry in 2018 and are considering settlement in the UK. My Brother and sister in law will take care of the family whilst I am away. I understand it is important to comply with all the rules of this visit visa as I do not want to jeopardise and future visa applications. 

 

Signed: *********

 

additional supporting documents:

western union transfer receipts

flight tickets from internal Thai flights

12 months bank statements from my business (copy)

lease for my business (copy)

copy of my passport pages showing arrivals in Thailand

Edited April 12, 2017 by darren1971

[CharlieH]

I have edited out the persons name.

 

If I was the ECO, I would see alarm bells at the "settlement in the Uk" showing that she intends to stay? 

and the fact you have a restaurant/pub would leave me wondering if she was going to work there illegally on her trip ?. Just my opinion.

[7by7]

37 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I have edited out the persons name.

 

If I was the ECO, I would see alarm bells at the "settlement in the Uk" showing that she intends to stay? 

It can be a problem in some circumstances; but may also help if applicant and/or sponsor state that they know overstaying a visit will cause problems with a future settlement application; as Darren has done in his sponsor's letter

 

47 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

(I) am aware that it is important that we comply with the visit visa rules so as not to jeopardise any future visa applications

and his girlfriend has in hers

 

47 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

I understand it is important to comply with all the rules of this visit visa as I do not want to jeopardise and future visa applications. 

 

37 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

the fact you have a restaurant/pub would leave me wondering if she was going to work there illegally on her trip ?. Just my opinion.

Good point.

 

Darren, I suggest that you put in both your and her letters that she is aware that any type of employment is forbidden while she is in the UK as a visitor; even unpaid. Make it clear that she will not be working in your pub, not even helping out on an unpaid basis.

Edited April 12, 2017 by 7by7

[7by7]

5 hours ago, rasg said:

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:28 AM, 7by7 said:

You sending money to support her can help, as it adds to the evidence of your relationship.

I don't agree with this at all for the first visit visa. It was fine for my wife's second visa but thinsg have changed in the last two years. I'll see if I can find the wording of the refusal notices.

 In my opinion, unexplained monies, especially lump sums, can cause problems; but if the reason for sending the money, especially regular transfers, is given and reasonable, such as helping to support someone who doesn't work o has a low income, then this should be acceptable.

 

As I said above; every application is treated on it's own merits. Just because applicant A was refused for reason X doesn't mean applicant B will be; it depends on the individual circumstances of each applicant.

[CharlieH]

Only a suggestion  7by7 has more experience, is it really necessary to say what the business is ? Cant it just be left as "I have my own succesful business for 8 years, and I have my own accomadation" then It doesnt leave the door open for possible concerns ?

[7by7]

49 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

if anyone wanted to check if I have made any obvious mistakes it would be awesome!.

Looks ok; except:

 

flight tickets from internal Thai flights

Not really needed; the stamps in your passport show when and how long for you have visited her.

 

12 months bank statements from my business (copy)

I am aware from your other topic about how your finances work; but the ECO wont be! You need to explain it to show that you are paying for the visit, not your business. If the ECO thinks the business is paying for her trip, then any suspicions about her working will definitely be aroused! 

 

I'd also include your personal account statements as well.

 

Last 6 months at most; don't need 12 for a visit application.

[darren1971]

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

12 months bank statements from my business (copy)

I am aware from your other topic about how your finances work; but the ECO wont be! You need to explain it to show that you are paying for the visit, not your business. If the ECO thinks the business is paying for her trip, then any suspicions about her working will definitely be aroused! 

 

I'd also include your personal account statements as well.

 

Last 6 months at most; don't need 12 for a visit application.

ok, seems I need to start transferring regular money from my business account to my personal account - 

[TCA]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Looks ok; except:

 

flight tickets from internal Thai flights

Not really needed; the stamps in your passport show when and how long for you have visited her.

 

Being devil's advocate, it could be said that his passport only shows he's been in Thailand for x amount of time, whereas the flight tickets presumably show both their names and therefore confirm time together.

[darren1971]

1 hour ago, TCA said:

 

Being devil's advocate, it could be said that his passport only shows he's been in Thailand for x amount of time, whereas the flight tickets presumably show both their names and therefore confirm time together.

I think I will include them as there isn't a massive amount to go through and it is the only evidence with both our names on.

[rasg]

4 hours ago, darren1971 said:

I think I will include them as there isn't a massive amount to go through and it is the only evidence with both our names on.

You should. It all adds to your proof of relationship.