Usufruct Voided On Divorce?

[12DrinkMore]

11 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

bullshit, a usefruct has nothing to do with a marriage. It is still valied and nobody would buy the house when a 3. party has the usefruct on it. It´s the best way to keep your rights on land, when you a foreigner

 

There has still not be a definitive and clear reply. That is normal in Thailand.

 

Apparently all contracts made between wife and husband are nullified by a divorce. The usufruct is also a contract. 

[happylarry]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

There has still not be a definitive and clear reply. That is normal in Thailand.

 

Apparently all contracts made between wife and husband are nullified by a divorce. The usufruct is also a contract. 

It's not automatically nullified......the wife has to ask the court to do it but then the husband can present his reasons for not doing so and the court then makes their decision.

HL

[simoh1490]

18 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

There has still not be a definitive and clear reply. That is normal in Thailand.

 

Apparently all contracts made between wife and husband are nullified by a divorce. The usufruct is also a contract. 

Clear and definitive statements on this have been given several times. The usufruct is capable of being cancelled if the Thai spouse makes application to do so and the court agrees. For it to be cancelled the usufruct would have had to be made between husband and wife whilst they were married otherwise it is not capable of being cancelled other than by the usufuctee, expiry or death.

[12DrinkMore]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Clear and definitive statements on this have been given several times. The usufruct is capable of being cancelled if the Thai spouse makes application to do so and the court agrees. For it to be cancelled the usufruct would have had to be made between husband and wife whilst they were married otherwise it is not capable of being cancelled other than by the usufuctee, expiry or death.

 

Thanks.

 

OK, so it is all up in the air and depends on a random court decision, which means it is subject to nods, winks, xenophobia and envelopes. Although these civil cases can be dragged out for years with appeals.

 

Has there been any experience of court decisions?

 

Is there any time limit for the ex-wife to apply? Or can she come back in five years with a betting debt and try to have the usufruct annulled?

 

I suppose the "death" applies only to the usufructee and not the owner of the property?

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Ah! Yes! The Risks and Dangers of getting Married. I am sure everyone here knows them all to well. It has gotten to the point that the younger generation don't even want to get married anymore. And who can blame them for that?

 

But No Man is an Island! We are not meant to live alone, although most of us have done this from time to time. But in all honesty not too many liked this way of life for too long either.

 

So the only solution is to make enough money where you can support 2 x-wives and a bunch of kids, but now be too poor for you new wife to want to leave you.

 

Works for me!

 

 

 

 

 

Speak for yourself old man

 

 

 

 

 

[happylarry]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Thanks.

 

OK, so it is all up in the air and depends on a random court decision, which means it is subject to nods, winks, xenophobia and envelopes. Although these civil cases can be dragged out for years with appeals.

 

Has there been any experience of court decisions?

 

Is there any time limit for the ex-wife to apply? Or can she come back in five years with a betting debt and try to have the usufruct annulled?

 

I suppose the "death" applies only to the usufructee and not the owner of the property?

 

 

You just don't want to listen do you?

The wife can apply at the divorce hearing.....NOT five years later!!!

And I'd like to see you try giving a high court judge an  "envelope"..... lol

Also have you experienced a divorce dragging on for years?...I don't think so.

And lastly.....how on earth can you have appeals in a divorce case....jeez....one you are divorced that is final.

the only time it can be revisited is when one party does not pay their half, of whatever, on time and the other party then has to start a NEW case to force the issue.

HL

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Thanks.

 

OK, so it is all up in the air and depends on a random court decision, which means it is subject to nods, winks, xenophobia and envelopes. Although these civil cases can be dragged out for years with appeals.

 

Has there been any experience of court decisions?

 

Is there any time limit for the ex-wife to apply? Or can she come back in five years with a betting debt and try to have the usufruct annulled?

 

I suppose the "death" applies only to the usufructee and not the owner of the property?

 

 

There have been a couple of threads on this subject in the past year and I recall that posters have reported instances where the court ruled in the wife's favour and another where the judge ruled in favour of the foreign husband, simply because he was able to prove he had supplied the funds to buy the property in the first place. That particular ruling didn't give the husband ownership but it did preserve the usufruct.

 

And as stated earlier by others, the application must be made at the time of divorce proceedings and there is no scope for the Thai spouse to come back again after the fact and make a second or late application.

 

Finally yes, the death refers to the usufructee and not the grantor since ownership of the land and property in the case of the grantors death would be subject to Thai inheritance laws.

[12DrinkMore]

2 hours ago, happylarry said:

You just don't want to listen do you?

The wife can apply at the divorce hearing.....NOT five years later!!!

And I'd like to see you try giving a high court judge an  "envelope"..... lol

Also have you experienced a divorce dragging on for years?...I don't think so.

And lastly.....how on earth can you have appeals in a divorce case....jeez....one you are divorced that is final.

the only time it can be revisited is when one party does not pay their half, of whatever, on time and the other party then has to start a NEW case to force the issue.

HL

 

I am listening.

 

- Any envelopes would go through the lawyer, not directly to the judge. That is how it works.

 

- my divorce in the UK went on for over two years, and then took another six months before it was totally over after I went back to court to get things moving.

 

- I have wrongly assumed that removing the usufruct was a separate court issue to the divorce itself. My bad. I thought that divorce in Thailand could be done at the local ampur without involving a judge. And then the woman could go to court to have the usufruct removed.

 

[happylarry]

Well you obviously are not quite up to speed on this subject then my friend...the only time a divorce can be instigated at an Amphur is when both parties are willing and present and there are no assets or children to negotiate about.

All other divorces are to go to court. Firstly there is a negotiation hearing where all parties and their lawyers meet in a room in front of a judge who is basically there to mediate. If they can come to a conclusion that is acceptable to all parties then it finishes there and the judge grants the divorce and the negotiation settlements are written into the divorce paperwork. However if they can't come to an agreement and the judge can't see the negotiations going any further then you are then given a date for the full court hearing in front of a more senior judge where he will hear the evidence from both sides and then come to his decision accordingly.

Obviously I cant say categorically that a case has never lasted a long time but my wife has been involved in hundreds of divorces over the last few years and they rarely go on past the first main hearing, unless there is custody of children involved and even then they don't stretch on for too long.

As for the envelopes, my wife and the lawyer she works with most of the time obviously don't travel in the same circles that you obviously do....lol

Anyway I hope this has been of interest to you and I haven't wasted my time writing this....lol

HL

 

i just thought that I'd mention that you are partly correct because all divorces are actually finished at the Amphur, because when the judge grants a divorce the court then issues the court paper and either one of the parties then has to take this paper to the Amphur in order for them to register the divorce and only when that is done is the divorce finalized.

 

HL

Edited May 3, 2017 by happylarry

[12DrinkMore]

22 hours ago, happylarry said:

Well you obviously are not quite up to speed on this subject then my friend...the only time a divorce can be instigated at an Amphur is when both parties are willing and present and there are no assets or children to negotiate about.

All other divorces are to go to court. Firstly there is a negotiation hearing where all parties and their lawyers meet in a room in front of a judge who is basically there to mediate. If they can come to a conclusion that is acceptable to all parties then it finishes there and the judge grants the divorce and the negotiation settlements are written into the divorce paperwork. However if they can't come to an agreement and the judge can't see the negotiations going any further then you are then given a date for the full court hearing in front of a more senior judge where he will hear the evidence from both sides and then come to his decision accordingly.

Obviously I cant say categorically that a case has never lasted a long time but my wife has been involved in hundreds of divorces over the last few years and they rarely go on past the first main hearing, unless there is custody of children involved and even then they don't stretch on for too long.

As for the envelopes, my wife and the lawyer she works with most of the time obviously don't travel in the same circles that you obviously do....lol

Anyway I hope this has been of interest to you and I haven't wasted my time writing this....lol

HL

 

i just thought that I'd mention that you are partly correct because all divorces are actually finished at the Amphur, because when the judge grants a divorce the court then issues the court paper and either one of the parties then has to take this paper to the Amphur in order for them to register the divorce and only when that is done is the divorce finalized.

 

HL

 

Thanks, I've just SMS'd that the marriage is permanently off the table.