‘Flawed’ approaches behind the Kingdom’s failure in democracy

[maewang99]

they never solve the root problems.  on purpose.

just pile nonsense on top of nonsense. like Trump. because it works, in spades.





 

Edited June 25, 2017 by maewang99

[tigermoth]

17 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

what was the point of the referendum if the general is not going to allow elections? thanks to the referendum he can run them and still retain overall control. is he that scared there will be civil unrest if elections are held? are they going to keep delaying until yingluck flees the country or is in jail? would be interesting to really know what the general is thinking. asking those 4 questions certainly made it look like he was gauging public opinion on not running elections at all.

If Elections are not held there will be massive civic unrest. No Thais listen to the nightly raves and nonense spewing forth from a non elected person self placed at the top of this mess called government. The mumbles and whispers are growing and it has nothing to do with the pros and cons of legal political parties. It is totally pointed at the horrendous mess being made of the system and the vast increase in corruption and suppression of information.

[robblok]

But governance was not about the means to power, Parinya said. Both the junta and civilian governments were equally vulnerable to abusing power, the professor explained. Good governance could only be secured by checks and balances and transparency, he said. But those mechanisms could not function under absolute rule, he added. 

 

Both junta and previous governments have shown only to attack corruption that has been done by their enemies. The checks and balances never seem to work. I havent heard much about the airplane engine scandal, it is as if whatever corruption is uncovered the people who benefited from it keep the money. I really hope they make the MP's in YL her government that set up the fake companies in the rice scam pay for the damages. I would hope it would set a precedent. What good are all those anti corruption agencies when the people who commit corruption are not paying the damage back. Now we got a luxury car scandal.. do get some of the customs officials too.. and let them pay back till they are poor. 

 

As long as the anti corruption agencies work too slow and don't really punish the corrupt this country won't move forward. Whoever is in power wants to be in power to enrich themselves. The current MP seems to be clean, but the same cannot be said about his brother and nephew. His push against corruption took a big hit when no real action was taken in those cases. Now that I think about it.. when has real action been taken against corruption. I wonder if anyone can come up with a case (red / yellow whatever) where they really had to pay the money back (and has been paid back).  As long as it stays profitable to be corrupt nothing will change. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

25 minutes ago, tigermoth said:

If Elections are not held there will be massive civic unrest. No Thais listen to the nightly raves and nonense spewing forth from a non elected person self placed at the top of this mess called government. The mumbles and whispers are growing and it has nothing to do with the pros and cons of legal political parties. It is totally pointed at the horrendous mess being made of the system and the vast increase in corruption and suppression of information.

double edged sword as there may be massive civil unrest when the masses realize they can not vote for ying luck or other preferred candidates. 

[anon4546543]

13 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

And what did the world look like before democracy?

 

This is a perfect example of pro-Junta nonsense.

Criticise and reject something for being imperfect whilst ignoring the fact that the alternative is a thousand times worse.

 

Stop worrying about the twig in my eye until you've dealt with the log in yours.

The world before democracy created the "Magna Carta". Possibly the most important document ever written.

The world before democracy built the drainage and flooding systems of so many Asian countries that are still

in use and provide the West with a constant supply of rice. Terraced farming was pre democracy, Gallileo,

and all the major scientific advances were pre democracy. You need to study History 101.

Also the "wonders of the World", the history of agriculture, building basics, in fact every building block of human development

was pre democracy. Not to mention the various calendars (Julian and Mayan), mate you have lost the plot.

[Smarter Than You]

10 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

The world before democracy created the "Magna Carta". Possibly the most important document ever written.

The world before democracy built the drainage and flooding systems of so many Asian countries that are still

in use and provide the West with a constant supply of rice. Terraced farming was pre democracy, Gallileo,

and all the major scientific advances were pre democracy. You need to study History 101.

Also the "wonders of the World", the history of agriculture, building basics, in fact every building block of human development

was pre democracy. Not to mention the various calendars (Julian and Mayan), mate you have lost the plot.

Was there much slavery?

Were there many Serfs?

Was there minimum wage rates and  workplace safety laws?

 

 

 

[anon4546543]

15 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The Greeks especially the Athenians didn't do so bad under Democracy. 

 

Suggest you take your own advice. 

I suggest you do some more study into everything that is now called early Greek democracy.

For a start, it was not Greek, they were city states and not yet a collective. Some let the "democratic "

process to occur, most did not. Read about the executions of the now called "liberals" in Athens City State,of many preaching "democracy".

Never mind, your knowledge ancient history is sub standard but quoted by by you as being applicable now. It was a non democratic

state that saved the Athenians (Sparta). So enough of that <deleted>. If democracy in Greece was so good then, what  is the <deleted> happening now?

 Explain Nth Korean and Russian democracy to us all. Explain Trump democracy to me. Explain Brexit democracy, it is all confusion,

corruption and total incompetence. And most of the elegible voters do not vote because they recognise a scam for what it is.  

 

 

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, Smarter Than You said:

Was there much slavery?

Were there many Serfs?

Was there minimum wage rates and  workplace safety laws?

 

 

 

Slavery is at its most rampant now. In Australia every week there is an issue of sex trade from Asian girls, promised good jobs

and forces into the sex slave market. This happens around the world on a massive scale. Including Karen girls from Myanmar.

 

Your comments about serfs (check out any merchant ship) , safety regulations and wage rates is almost as, dare I say it, ignorant.

 Most overseas workers that provide you your  boots, athletic shoes, designer shirts, trousers, jeans, food ad infinitum all are

serfs, on non existent wages and no safety rules. The factory that I recently visited that provides you a big name shoes has no

safety glasses, safety shoes or boots, hearing protection, nor any thing else. Democracy in full measure. You are delusional.

 

You may be smarter than me but being dumb and ill informed does not make you an expert. It makes you dumber than me and that takes some doing.

 

[baboon]

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

The world before democracy created the "Magna Carta". Possibly the most important document ever written.

The world before democracy built the drainage and flooding systems of so many Asian countries that are still

in use and provide the West with a constant supply of rice. Terraced farming was pre democracy, Gallileo,

and all the major scientific advances were pre democracy. You need to study History 101.

Also the "wonders of the World", the history of agriculture, building basics, in fact every building block of human development

was pre democracy. Not to mention the various calendars (Julian and Mayan), mate you have lost the plot.

So because Stonehenge was built in 3100 BC, the Thai military have a perfect right to do as they please in 2017. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Just when you think Thaivisa can't possibly become any more bizarre...

[anon4546543]

14 minutes ago, baboon said:

So because Stonehenge was built in 3100 BC, the Thai military have a perfect right to do as they please in 2017. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Just when you think Thaivisa can't possibly become any more bizarre...

Smarter than me stated that nothing of any substance occurred before "democracy"

You appear to be just as ignorant as he on pre democratic times. Tell me when did democracy

first start as an ambition for any country in the last thousand years. 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Tell me when did democracy

first start as an ambition for any country in the last thousand years. 

USA in 1787?

Date its first Constitution was signed.

[baboon]

6 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Smarter than me stated that nothing of any substance occurred before "democracy"

You appear to be just as ignorant as he on pre democratic times. Tell me when did democracy

first start as an ambition for any country in the last thousand years. 

At the point where democratic countries adopted a democratic system of government. 

[Srikcir]

35 minutes ago, baboon said:

At the point where democratic countries adopted a democratic system of government. 

Many nations that were part of the British Empire as colonies and territories adopted democracy for the first time following their independence, ie., India, Canada. Japan became an instant democracy shortly after its unconditional defeat by the Allies in WW2 and they have never since considered a different form of governance.

 

Thailand's first attempts at democracy wasn't really until the 1997 "People's Constitution," then interrupted by three  military coups that restored direct autocratic rule (as opposed to indirect autocratic rule that continued through and beyond 1997); now after three years still no democracy on the horizon. The truth is that Thailand has not been successful at establishing democracy because it has never been the foundation of governance. The day that the Thai People are empowered to fully adopt democratic governance in complete control of the nation's sovereignty is the day that is counted as Day One.

[Smarter Than You]

8 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Smarter than me stated that nothing of any substance occurred before "democracy"

You appear to be just as ignorant as he on pre democratic times. Tell me when did democracy

first start as an ambition for any country in the last thousand years. 

No Smarter Than You Didn't.

Smarter Than You asked "What was the world like before Democracy?"

 

Not quite the same thing is it.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Smarter Than You

[mtls2005]

and all the major scientific advances were pre democracy

 

Says the guy typing on a PC, using the internet.

 

I'm off for a blood-letting, maybe some leeches, to treat my "humours".

 

Thailand would probably better off reverting to the pre-1932 style of "government". I mean it worked for ~ 700 years. 

 

 

[Srikcir]

15 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

"What was the world like before Democracy?"

Before the 6th century B.C. - tyranny, aristocracy

You can google for more details.

[Chris Lawrence]

13 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Slavery is at its most rampant now. In Australia every week there is an issue of sex trade from Asian girls, promised good jobs

and forces into the sex slave market. This happens around the world on a massive scale. Including Karen girls from Myanmar.

 

Your comments about serfs (check out any merchant ship) , safety regulations and wage rates is almost as, dare I say it, ignorant.

 Most overseas workers that provide you your  boots, athletic shoes, designer shirts, trousers, jeans, food ad infinitum all are

serfs, on non existent wages and no safety rules. The factory that I recently visited that provides you a big name shoes has no

safety glasses, safety shoes or boots, hearing protection, nor any thing else. Democracy in full measure. You are delusional.

 

You may be smarter than me but being dumb and ill informed does not make you an expert. It makes you dumber than me and that takes some doing.

 

So what input did you give to the management of this factory u visited. 

 

Change begins with you.

[dexjnr555]

On 6/24/2017 at 11:53 AM, Reigntax said:

"Thai democracy" is on par with "odourless dog turds". Both just dont exist and never will.

A rather silly statement if you ask me. Tell me, are you free to do about as you please here?

[Reigntax]

8 minutes ago, dexjnr555 said:

A rather silly statement if you ask me. Tell me, are you free to do about as you please here?

 

Answer NO, which makes your question far more stupid that not commenting at all.

 

You may require further advice from dexsnr999.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Reigntax

[YetAnother]

pretty negative messages

[baboon]

7 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

and all the major scientific advances were pre democracy

 

Says the guy typing on a PC, using the internet.

 

I'm off for a blood-letting, maybe some leeches, to treat my "humours".

 

Thailand would probably better off reverting to the pre-1932 style of "government". I mean it worked for ~ 700 years. 

 

 

Stop being such a negative Nancy. Think how fantastic it must have been back in the day. A strong, no nonsense justice system that cricified miscreants. Human sacrifices to keep the country strong and prosperous. No burden on the public healthcare system because you were dead by 40. Witches caught and dealt with in accordance with law, so fewer ugly birds around into the bargain. Shorter history classes at school for the kids and games of Guess that Plague until they succumbed to the plague themselves...

[Smarter Than You]

16 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Slavery is at its most rampant now. In Australia every week there is an issue of sex trade from Asian girls, promised good jobs

and forces into the sex slave market. This happens around the world on a massive scale. Including Karen girls from Myanmar.

 

Your comments about serfs (check out any merchant ship) , safety regulations and wage rates is almost as, dare I say it, ignorant.

 Most overseas workers that provide you your  boots, athletic shoes, designer shirts, trousers, jeans, food ad infinitum all are

serfs, on non existent wages and no safety rules. The factory that I recently visited that provides you a big name shoes has no

safety glasses, safety shoes or boots, hearing protection, nor any thing else. Democracy in full measure. You are delusional.

 

You may be smarter than me but being dumb and ill informed does not make you an expert. It makes you dumber than me and that takes some doing.

 

Democracy and emancipation ... cause and effect.

 

There is no rampant slavery in Australia nor any other OECD country.

When rare instances of slavery are uncovered, people are prosecuted.

To say that slavery is at its most rampant now is just plain wrong.

Slavery does still exist as do low wages and unsafe workplaces.

Where do these three evils occur most?

Non democratic nations.

 

Democracy and emancipation ... cause and effect.

 

I am indeed Smarter Than You.

 

[gk10002000]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:16 PM, spiderorchid said:

Russia, UK, US, AUS, Zimbabwe, Sth Africa and so on all claim to be democratic. So does Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, Israel, Egypt and more.

Democracy is a word and it has been used and abused by all the above mentioned countries. Of course I failed to mention China and Nth Korea.

So who are we kidding. If democracy is the US system where you need to be a multi million dollar player to contest, you are bulls..ing me. 

So lets not crap on about democracy in Thailand, you are boers, pun intended.  

Oh no no no.  Don't dump on the US Democracy. Of course the USA has corruption, bribes, insider training, vote buying, crooked judges, etc.  All those things come with human nature.  But the US constitution and ostensibly the US Supreme court exist, and are designed and generally do enforce the document and the laws that USA citizens are expected to abide by and mostly agree to do so.  The USA hasn't and won't just toss aside the constitution.  The document can be amended per a process and occasionally has been amended.  The US government was designed so that an autocrat could NOT take over.  The so called balance of power and checks and balances. Granted sometimes, perhaps even often things get deadlocked, and issues are not resolved, and time and money is wasted.   rarely do things work perfectly.   Many countries in Asia have the benevolent dictator mentality, or they want a strong leader.  Well, be careful what you ask for.  You might get your strong leader.