Proof from what you live as a retiree

[moogradod]

I understand that as a retiree in Thailand with 800K in the Bank or even a TE-Visa, Immigrations may ask from what assets you live and demand proof in order to exclude employment.

 

 

The planning of my wife and me is that all our money will be held in Thai accounts in the name of my wife only. Is it therefore acceptable for the Thai authorities if I live from these assets (which are originally come from my pension fund anyway) and show proof accordingly (ATM slips or withdrawals) ?

 

 

Or do I need to show this from a Thai bank account in my own name, which could of course be arranged by just transferring money from one of my wife’s accounts

[ubonjoe]

The funds must be in a bank account in your name only to apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement or marriage.

If have a pension income equal to or greater  than 65k baht you can use that to apply for an extension based upon retirement.

If the TE visa you wrote about means Thai Elite you do not show money in the bank you pay for the membership.

 

[moogradod]

Thanks ubonjoe.

 

Sorry, my question was obviously misleading. I mean if Immigration might ask me from what I live day to day, pay the rent, insurance, food drink etc. - not the guarantee needed for extension. And yes TE means Thai Elite.

 

[YetAnother]

38 minutes ago, moogradod said:

all our money will be held in Thai accounts in the name of my wife only. Is it therefore acceptable for the Thai authorities if I live from these assets

why did you choose that route ? risky to be sure; add your name

[moogradod]

Just now, YetAnother said:

why did you choose that route ? risky to be sure; add your name

Thanks for worrying but no risk at all in case of my wife.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, moogradod said:

Sorry, my question was obviously misleading. I mean if Immigration might ask me from what I live day to day, pay the rent, insurance, food drink etc. - not the guarantee needed for extension.

There are a few offices that have wanted to see activity in the bank account you use for to keep the funds in. But another bank book showing incoming transfers or proof of your pension would be accepted.

[moogradod]

When I retire, I will not get any pension at all first. A state pension will kick in 3 years later. Now I am nearing 62.

 

But I do get a VERY substantial one time amount from my company. We want to transfer this amount to (still to be opened) accounts of my wife in Thailand, which will mostly be fixed asset accounts. I will only maintain one account holding 1MioTHB - just in case we would go the retirement visa route - which I doubt we do - TE-Visa is more likely.

 

We will live from the income generated from the fixed asset accounts plus use up some of the capital

 

Actually I do not want to posess any assets. There are inheritance reasons involved. But my wife and me do have sufficient funds to live well and safe in Thailand until we die. What we will do is to withdraw money only from accounts in the name of my wife. This is the only proof of live sustaining "income" unless my state pension comes in addition. What to I am referring here now is:

 

1. In case I go the non-immi-O retirement extension route: Is this proof of "income" then acceptable for immigraton. I would rather like to have the 800K in a fixed asset account. Of couse I may transfer some money from the accounts of my wife to my 800K-account (then not fixed) and withdraw from there. But the transfers to my account will be from the account of my wife. We will transfer all we have to Thailand. I would not even be allowed to have an account in Switzerland when I leave (since I am German)

2. In case of Thai Elite Visa I might be asked the same. And the answer would be the same - we (my wife and myself) live from the money that my wife has.

 

For me this is straightforward and I do not see any problem with that. And it is not risky, too, as some other member mentioned before. I know what you are referring to but - believe it or not - I may trust my wife. Please just assume I am right.

[perthperson]

3 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I would not even be allowed to have an account in Switzerland when I leave (since I am German)

Really --- When I was working in Zurich,  I, from the UK and my German, French, Italian etc colleagues had Swiss bank accounts from which any banking service offered by UBS could be accessed.  I still have a Swiss based UBS account and have long since left Zurich 

 

 

[moogradod]

14 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Really --- When I was working in Zurich,  I, from the UK and my German, French, Italian etc colleagues had Swiss bank accounts from which any banking service offered by UBS could be accessed.  I still have a Swiss based UBS account and have long since left Zurich 

 

 

It seems actually possible for some types of accounts but charges are tremendous - and besides - I do not want to have an account in Switzerland anyway. Inheritance reasons.

[perthperson]

Just now, moogradod said:

It seems actually possible for some types of accounts but charges are tremendous - and besides - I do not want to have an account in Switzerland anyway. Inheritance reasons.

I must be lucky then because I do not pay "tremendous charges"

 

Have you not considered a Swiss Private Bank Account  to hide the inheritance in ?  Any money transferred into Thailand is traceable ....

[moogradod]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

I must be lucky then because I do not pay "tremendous charges"

 

Have you not considered a Swiss Private Bank Account  to hide the inheritance in ?  Any money transferred into Thailand is traceable ....

I do not need to hide anything, since all will be perfectly legal. When I leave Switzerland as a German all bindings are broken then anyway. No Swiss jurisdiction nor inheritance law does ever apply to me anymore. And the money transfers may be traceable as long as this world endures. Once it is in the sole name of my wife in Thailand and backed up by a Thai Will it is absolutely safe and legal as can be.

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Once it is in the sole name of my wife in Thailand and backed up by a Thai Will it is absolutely safe and legal as can be

    Thanks for  that information.     

 

 

[moogradod]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

    Thanks for  that information.     

 

 

guess you did not get my point

[moogradod]

OK, now back to serious: I hope someone will answer my post ID: 7 for in this planning period it is crucial for us to set up the financial side correctly.

 

Thanks a lot.

[roobaa01]

@moogradod

 

exention of stay based on reitirement

 

you have 1 fixed interest account in your name with 800 k to satisfy immigration.

you have a simple savings passbook in your name, ,which receives monthly proceeds.this is to satisfy immigration if they want to check on what u live.

 

extension of stay based on marriage to a thai

 

same as above but only 400 k requested by immigration.

 

im 62 have done the same as you but with 400 k, as well as we share the same nationalty.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[moogradod]

Thank you very much roobaa01 !

 

The one and only important question here is: If the "monthly proceeds" are from the account of my wife from an account in Thailand, is this then OK for Immigration ?

 

Simply put:

1. I will live in Thailand (most probably with a Thai Elite Visa)

2. I will have an account of 1MioTHB fixed - just in case I would ever need that (example: TE-Visa is not supported anymore)

3. I will have no income for the next 3 years

4. My Thai wife is rich and has plenty of assets and is getting fixed account income

5. I will live on the money of my wife, either by withdrawing money from her account or transferring money on a monthly basis to a savings account in my name

 

OK or something wrong with that ?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

When I retire, I will not get any pension at all first. A state pension will kick in 3 years later. Now I am nearing 62.

 

But I do get a VERY substantial one time amount from my company. We want to transfer this amount to (still to be opened) accounts of my wife in Thailand, which will mostly be fixed asset accounts. I will only maintain one account holding 1MioTHB - just in case we would go the retirement visa route - which I doubt we do - TE-Visa is more likely.

 

We will live from the income generated from the fixed asset accounts plus use up some of the capital

 

Actually I do not want to posess any assets. There are inheritance reasons involved. But my wife and me do have sufficient funds to live well and safe in Thailand until we die. What we will do is to withdraw money only from accounts in the name of my wife. This is the only proof of live sustaining "income" unless my state pension comes in addition. What to I am referring here now is:

 

1. In case I go the non-immi-O retirement extension route: Is this proof of "income" then acceptable for immigraton. I would rather like to have the 800K in a fixed asset account. Of couse I may transfer some money from the accounts of my wife to my 800K-account (then not fixed) and withdraw from there. But the transfers to my account will be from the account of my wife. We will transfer all we have to Thailand. I would not even be allowed to have an account in Switzerland when I leave (since I am German)

2. In case of Thai Elite Visa I might be asked the same. And the answer would be the same - we (my wife and myself) live from the money that my wife has.

 

For me this is straightforward and I do not see any problem with that. And it is not risky, too, as some other member mentioned before. I know what you are referring to but - believe it or not - I may trust my wife. Please just assume I am right.

You just need the one account in your name only with 800K for retirement, if using the "money in the bank" method, alone, to qualify for it.  In your case, this would seem to be the most straightforward path, at least until your pension kicks in.  At that point, you can use either the "income" only method or combined "income + money-in-the-bank" method.

If you go with the TE you don't need any proof of anything after you get it - you simply "buy" a visa with a lump-sum payment.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

1. I will live in Thailand (most probably with a Thai Elite Visa)

You do not need to show financial proof for it. Just pay the one time fee for membership.

2 minutes ago, moogradod said:

5. I will live on the money of my wife, either by withdrawing money from her account or transferring money on a monthly basis to a savings account in my name

If immigration was to ask and most offices do not ask for proof of what you are living on you could use an an account showing activity.

 

[NancyL]

It's been my experience that Immigration just wants to hear a believable story.  I have an 800,000 baht account here in Thailand that I haven't touched for years, except to update annually to reflect accrued interest ahead of getting my verification bank letter for Immigration for the annual retirement extension.

 

A couple times, Immigration has noted the lack of account activity and asked how it is that I have funds to live?  Do I work?  No, I say that my husbands pensions are adequate to support us both, would he like to see, and pull out our joint Bangkok Bank account bank book with an open page, which I'm careful to keep updated.  It shows a very active stream of money coming in internationally each month and going out almost as fast as it comes in.   No, no they don't want to look at that level of detail.

 

Sometimes I'm asked what I do with my time in Thailand.  I reply with activities that I think they expect retired ladies to do -- meet with friends for lunch, go shopping, go to the spa and nail salon, travel around Thailand with my husband.  Take Thai language lessons.  It helped that I replied to this question in my flawless (yeah, right!) Thai.  

 

The first couple years here, Hubby and I lived off our savings, because he was too young to draw a pension.  That's basically what the OP is doing, only he's turned over all his savings to his Thai wife.  Immigration will love that.  

[YetAnother]

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

Is it therefore acceptable for the Thai authorities if I live from these assets

so you are asking if it is ok to use your OWN money ? ouch; watch yourself here with that attitude

[moogradod]

THANK YOU ALL

 

This all means we can do it the way we wanted. Especially when I use the TE-Route. Hope this one stays for a while. And it is nice to hear that common sense is not dead.

 

Only one small thing remains: When we transfer our money from Switzerland to one account of my Thai wife in Thailand in order to spread it later to several diversified fixed asset accounts (a question of bank guarantee), does it matter if the SENDING account in Switzerland is 1. in my name or 2. in her name.

 

I am asking because I have heard that if my wife wants to buy some land or house or so later on, she needs to prove that it is HER money that she uses. But maybe it is enough that the account she uses in Thailand to pay the property is in her name.

 

Seems that I am overthinking here some things, but our situation is a bit special: I need basically to ensure the future of my wife, since my own perspective of living longer may be a bit restricted. Thats why so much is in my wife's name and so little in mine.

[YetAnother]

so, really what thais want is Both assets and income; 800k in bank and the equivalent of 65,000/month times 12 months (that is their estimate) 

[perthperson]

11 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

so, really what thais want is Both assets and income; 800k in bank and the equivalent of 65,000/month times 12 months (that is their estimate) 

 

I don't know where you got this idea but you are mistaken ................

[YetAnother]

4 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

I don't know where you got this idea but you are mistaken ................

800,000 in the bank is dead money; all the chatter is about how to support yourself day-to-day

[perthperson]

8 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

800,000 in the bank is dead money; all the chatter is about how to support yourself day-to-day

 

The 800,000 can be used except for 3 months out of 12. So not "dead" 

[NancyL]

11 hours ago, perthperson said:

 

The 800,000 can be used except for 3 months out of 12. So not "dead" 

Yes, I think the fact that my 800,000 baht is untouched from year-to-year is what causes Immigration to ask what I use to support myself.  It's probably more common for people to use that money each year.

[YetAnother]

we should not have to prove we are not working (proving a negative); they should have to prove we are (no i am not)

[WhizBang]

Thailand is politically unstable.  I for one, would never move all my assets into this country (and I have not).  I bring in only what I need to live, every 3 months.  Far too risky to bring in everything.

 

I do hope the OP's faith in his Thai wife is well placed. 

 

If the OP has the funds, and it sounds like he does, the Thai Elite visa is the (very) easy route.  If he will be living in Bangkok or one of the other cities with a Thailand Elite office, they will do the 90 day reporting for him, which I find very convenient. 

[moogradod]

On 22.7.2017 at 6:07 AM, WhizBang said:

Thailand is politically unstable.  I for one, would never move all my assets into this country (and I have not).  I bring in only what I need to live, every 3 months.  Far too risky to bring in everything.

I suppose this is unfortunately a valid point. But what would a Thai citizen do with 1Mio US$ in the pocket returning home from abroad ? What is the Thai middle class really doing aginst this uncertainty ? Or does it not apply to them ? If it doesnst it would not apply to me (my wife) either. Spreading over many accounts helps a little bit. But I doubt many have accounts in Singapore - banks all over LOS could close.

 

Main question: What does the Thai Middle Class do with their savings.

[11223344]

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

Main question: What does the Thai Middle Class do with their savings.

They buy overpriced condos that then sit empty, because people are unwilling to pay 40.000 thb to rent a 35sq m shoebox.