Dual U.S./Thai Citizen on overstay. How to fix it?

[jcates29]

I have a friend (yes, really a friend, not me.  Let's call the friend "X") who is a native Thai citizen, with a Thai passport, who immigrated to the U.S. years ago and obtained U.S. citizenship.  X travels to Thailand only infrequently.  X traveled here on July 8 to visit and obtain some medical treatment and has been here since then, and plans to return to the U.S. on September 6.  About a week ago X visited me and I inquired casually about what passport X used when entering Thailand.  It turns out X used their U.S. Passport.  I asked about X's "permission to stay" date stamp, since I knew X had been in Thailand longer than the 30-day permission granted to U.S. citizens.  X checked and, sure enough, the permission to stay expired on August 8. 

 

Now what should X do?  My first impression was to tell X to go to the Chaeng Wattana immigration office with both their U.S. and Thai passports, explain they mistakenly entered on their U.S. passport, and try to work through the process to correct the problem.  X prefers to take the chance to wait until the scheduled departure date, and let the chips fall where they may when going through immigration.  If there is a fine, so be it, X will pay it.  That may, indeed, be the best solution.  Even if X is blacklisted (on their U.S. passport), X would still have the right to enter as a Thai citizen, correct?  Are there other fines or bad repercussions of waiting until the scheduled departure date, and handling it at the immigration desk upon departure? 

 

 

[CyclingLight]

I believe the fine accrues at 500B/day.

 

If a random police check finds X has overstayed before X gets to the airport, X could be imprisoned and put into detention as well as banned. X could escape that by presenting their Thai passport (rather than their US passport) if stopped, and, of course, being Thai, X may be unlikely to get stopped for a passport check. Seems to me this is a low risk for your friend.

 

I believe X could turn themselves in at Chaeng Wattana, pay the fine, and still obtain a 30 day extension (1900Baht)  which ought to be pretty close to getting X to Sep 6 (60 days plus July 8 arrival date; plus usually a 1 day overstay is ignored as far as fines and notations in the PP). (Call immigration first, or wait until someone more expert than myself verifies this). Your friend might even be able to escape the fine because of the Thai passport and "mistake". 

 

Not sure if dual passports are linked, but if X shows them both at the airport as a way of excuse at the airport, then the Immigration Officer will be looking at both of them... but from my understanding, if one turns themselves in, they will not face being banned until 90 days and over of overstay. Going to the airport on the way out is considered "turning oneself in" which carries less penalty than being "caught" in a random passport check.

 

Seems to me, your friend ought to simply call immigration and find out. They may indeed excuse the mistake, and, if not, X will know exactly what they are dealing with. 

 

 

[PoorSucker]

Pay the overstay and get an extension. 

If she shows her Thai passport she will get one year extension of stay for 1900 baht 

[kurtmartens]

Sorry to be a numpty ... why didn't X simple come into Thailand on her Thai passport?

[johnnynmonic]

What would happen if X just checked in for the flight and cleared outbound Thai immigration with the Thai passport?  

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, johnnynmonic said:

What would happen if X just checked in for the flight and cleared outbound Thai immigration with the Thai passport?  

That cannot be done. You have to use the passport used for entry to the country when leaving the country.

[LukKrueng]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That cannot be done. You have to use the passport used for entry to the country when leaving the country.

xi's thai. Thais go through the automatic gates, not talking to anyone. There is no reason for the 2 passports to be connected, so that won't be detected there. the only problem that might arise there, is if the system detects that he left Thailand on his last trip (whenever was his last trip out on a thai passport, not the USA passport) and hasn't returned yet. If that happens he can act surprised and "come to a conclusion" that he must have presented his us passport by mistake when entering Thailand.

[douginbkk]

I was in a similar situation 25 years ago.  X should simply make a Thai passport here and exit on the Thai passport and should never return to Thailand on the US passport again.  25 years ago I entered on another passport.  Both it and visa expired.  I made a Thai passport in Thailand several years later and exited Thailand on it and have used it to exit/enter Thailand ever since with no problems at all.  I travel frequently for work.

 

Five years ago, my daughter who also has two passports (Thai and another) was studying outside Thailand and had to urgently return on her non-Thai passport because her Thai passport had expired while she was overseas and we didn't have the time to get her a new Thai one.  She entered Thailand on the non-Thai passport then made a new Thai passport here and has used that to exit/enter Thailand ever since without any problems.

[manarak]

6 minutes ago, douginbkk said:

I was in a similar situation 25 years ago.  X should simply make a Thai passport here and exit on the Thai passport and should never return to Thailand on the US passport again.  25 years ago I entered on another passport.  Both it and visa expired.  I made a Thai passport in Thailand several years later and exited Thailand on it and have used it to exit/enter Thailand ever since with no problems at all.  I travel frequently for work.

 

Five years ago, my daughter who also has two passports (Thai and another) was studying outside Thailand and had to urgently return on her non-Thai passport because her Thai passport had expired while she was overseas and we didn't have the time to get her a new Thai one.  She entered Thailand on the non-Thai passport then made a new Thai passport here and has used that to exit/enter Thailand ever since without any problems.

I think there are no issues using an expired Thai passport to enter Thailand.

[AlQaholic]

If the Thai passport is un-stamped she can use that for exit. However, then the US passport can never again be used when entering, unless it is changed. But the Thai database system may have something to say in the matter as well if the name in the Thai passport is the same as in the US passport.

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, jcates29 said:

My first impression was to tell X to go to the Chaeng Wattana immigration office with both their U.S. and Thai passports, explain they mistakenly entered on their U.S. passport,

Not sure why you keep referring to the individual using "they" and "their." How many people is X?

 

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no reason for the 2 passports to be connected, so that won't be detected there.

Presumably the same name, date of birth etc. They could be connected, if not when exiting the country, then possibly later especially if X is staying at his/her family's home now and will do so in future. It's possible at some point a red flag will arise when it's discovered that someone entered on a US passport and, apparently, never left. They could contact the US embassy for information on the individual's whereabouts and even make a call on his/her family.

 

While none of these things may happen, anytime X is in Thailand in future, s/he will have to wonder if a knock will come at the door. Seems more sensible to sort it out now.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Suradit69

[GOLDBUGGY]

Interesting Scenerio! 

 

If I was your Friend I would wait and deal with this when I was ready to leave Thailand on Sept 6th. But also give myself a lot of extra time to deal with Immigration at the Airport. 

 

Your Friend will most likely have to produce the US Passport to the Ticket Agent to be able to enter the USA, but also was the one he/she entered Thailand in on. This will more likely produce a Red Flag from the Ticket Agent, to remind him that he will have to visit Immigration before he leaves.

 

With Ticket in hand, he/she now has 2 choices.

 

Go directly to baggage check and clear Immigration the normal way, using the Thai Passport, provided the name on that Passport is the same as on the ticket, and forget about it. Then using his/her US Passport once they get to the United States.

 

Or go to Immigration and explain the error and be prepared to pay any Overstay Fine, if one is issued. For me this would be my prefered method as I don't like things hanging over my head. I already made one mistake so I surely don't want to make 2 of them.

 

My name on the US Passport would be in there Computer as Overstay for who knows how long, and I don't want that coming back to bite me one day. Not for a 15,000 Baht Fine I could pay now, which I may not get anyway once they realize the error. They don't Blacklist there own citizens. They may Fine them, but not Blacklist them.         

[GOLDBUGGY]

5 hours ago, douginbkk said:

I was in a similar situation 25 years ago.  X should simply make a Thai passport here and exit on the Thai passport and should never return to Thailand on the US passport again.  25 years ago I entered on another passport.  Both it and visa expired.  I made a Thai passport in Thailand several years later and exited Thailand on it and have used it to exit/enter Thailand ever since with no problems at all.  I travel frequently for work.

 

Five years ago, my daughter who also has two passports (Thai and another) was studying outside Thailand and had to urgently return on her non-Thai passport because her Thai passport had expired while she was overseas and we didn't have the time to get her a new Thai one.  She entered Thailand on the non-Thai passport then made a new Thai passport here and has used that to exit/enter Thailand ever since without any problems.

I can see this working under normal circumstances, especially 25 years ago and before the Computer Age, but not always feasible for everyone. 

 

The Ops Friend for example is going back to the United States where he now lives. On a Thai Passport your are restricted from some countries, like the USA, without a Visa. You won't get past the Ticket Agent as they are held accountable if you are entering that country without a Visa. 

 

Your daughter also did not have to use her Non-Thai Passport to enter Thailand. She just could have used her Non-Thai Passport to get her Flight Tickets, then shown her Expired Thai Passport when she arrived here. Thai's can't leave Thailand on an Expired Passport, but they can enter with one. Like everyone else.

 

In this way she would not leave any Paper Trail. Provided she used her new Thai Passport to leave the country when she decided to leave, as her Non-Thai Passport would not have an entry stamp.  But her Non-Thai Passport can also be used for the Ticket Agent if she needed to prove entry into that country. 

[novo58]

What possible issue could there be if X left on the thai passport ?? Next visit , even if X presented the USA passport what issue could there be at the airport as X is obviously arriving form overseas. If any question is raised just infer that someone must have not done their job properly when X last left thailand !!! Perhaps even present both passports and infer that someone stamped the WRONG passport when X last left Thailand.However if in some way the two passports are linked ( which I doubt) that is another issue.

 

I know times have changed , but in the 1980's I used to enter UK on a British visitors passport and leave on my Australian passport...did this for 6 years ...never questioned about it.

[kiwikeith]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 2:38 AM, CyclingLight said:

I believe the fine accrues at 500B/day.

 

If a random police check finds X has overstayed before X gets to the airport, X could be imprisoned and put into detention as well as banned. X could escape that by presenting their Thai passport (rather than their US passport) if stopped, and, of course, being Thai, X may be unlikely to get stopped for a passport check. Seems to me this is a low risk for your friend.

 

I believe X could turn themselves in at Chaeng Wattana, pay the fine, and still obtain a 30 day extension (1900Baht)  which ought to be pretty close to getting X to Sep 6 (60 days plus July 8 arrival date; plus usually a 1 day overstay is ignored as far as fines and notations in the PP). (Call immigration first, or wait until someone more expert than myself verifies this). Your friend might even be able to escape the fine because of the Thai passport and "mistake". 

 

Not sure if dual passports are linked, but if X shows them both at the airport as a way of excuse at the airport, then the Immigration Officer will be looking at both of them... but from my understanding, if one turns themselves in, they will not face being banned until 90 days and over of overstay. Going to the airport on the way out is considered "turning oneself in" which carries less penalty than being "caught" in a random passport check.

 

Seems to me, your friend ought to simply call immigration and find out. They may indeed excuse the mistake, and, if not, X will know exactly what they are dealing with. 

 

 

Can't he just leave LOS on his Thai passport and enter the US on the USA passport?, best he goes down to the immigration office and sorts it with them, for  a Thai should not be much problem.

My son has dual citizen passports enters LOS on Thai leaves on Thai enters home on NZ passport and leaves on NZ.

Edited August 30, 2017 by kiwikeith
add

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Can't he just leave LOS on his Thai passport and enter the US on the USA passport?, best he goes down to the immigration office and sorts it with them, for  a Thai should not be much problem.

They entered on a the US passport so that is what they will need to use on departure from the country.

Immigration will do nothing other that perhaps allow them pay the overstay fine and apply for a 30 day or one year extension based upon being a Thai national.

[CyclingLight]

16 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Not sure why you keep referring to the individual using "they" and "their." How many people is X?

 

"They" and "their" are coming into more common usage as gender-less pronouns instead of he/she, etc.