Farage Wins Clacton Byelection, Beating Count Binface

7 hours ago, RayC said:

" .. it is a bit presumptuous to assume that no one else had any trouble understanding what point you were trying to make".

I would have thought that the meaning of the above sentence was clear even if the context wasn't. However, perhaps now I am the one guilty of presumption?

My turn to apologise. I don't know how to express the sentence in question more clearly.

Your use of quotation marks is a bit surprising. Who said that?

I intend to enjoy a quiet Sunday. You can quote me on that.

10 hours ago, RayC said:

I am not denying ethnicity. The native peoples of North America. Australasia and Oceanic amongst others are testament to its existence.

Those ethnicities are no more "100% pure" than English ethnicity.

You just acknowledge them because they are not white.

Racist Raymond exposing his racist anti white bigotry again.

8 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

Did "JohnnyF" appear in that 2006 Ch4 documentary "100% English". Maybe he's Danny Blue, the Comedy Balloon Dancer.

Then showed his results.

https://youtu.be/jZ4rpe--i2Q?si=Z7aA0wYeNvCWHbnk

That was an excellent watch. And so interesting that racists in 2006 said exactly the same as racists in 2026. "Can't be English unless you go back X number of generations", "London is like an alien city", "we're being displaced", "immigrants coming over here to get free things", "culture culture blah blah". Hilarious.

The best bit was seeing their racist little faces when their worlds came crashing down when they got their results, especially the woman who then went on to threaten to sue the BBC. And JonnyF Balloon Man was absolutely gutted, especially when he had to concede the Ian Wright point.

Marvelous.

41 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

That was an excellent watch. And so interesting that racists in 2006 said exactly the same as racists in 2026. "Can't be English unless you go back X number of generations", "London is like an alien city", "we're being displaced", "immigrants coming over here to get free things", "culture culture blah blah". Hilarious.

The best bit was seeing their racist little faces when their worlds came crashing down when they got their results, especially the woman who then went on to threaten to sue the BBC. And JonnyF Balloon Man was absolutely gutted, especially when he had to concede the Ian Wright point.

Marvelous.

Nope, I've always said you can't be English unless you are white!

But non-whites can be British!

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nope, I've always said you can't be English unless you are white!

But non-whites can be British!

Thank you BalloonMan Too.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by josephbloggs

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Those ethnicities are no more "100% pure" than English ethnicity.

You just acknowledge them because they are not white.

Racist Raymond exposing his racist anti white bigotry again.

"The first inhabitants of Australia are the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They have lived on the continent for at least 65,000 years, making their culture one of the oldest continuous living traditions in human history" (Source: Google AI)

But hey, you have never let facts get in the way of your racist bigotry, Jonathan, so why start now.

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your use of quotation marks is a bit surprising. Who said that?

I intend to enjoy a quiet Sunday. You can quote me on that.

That was a quote of mine. I thought that the context was clear ... oh, never mind.

Enjoy your Sunday.

8 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

I have not avoided that question because you have not asked me that question. Perhaps you were asking someone else that question. I have no interest in pugilists.

My apologies. It was a failed, poor attempt at humour. If you read any Mr.F's replies to me about ethnicity, they almost invariably suggest that I deny Mr. Joshua's Nigerian ethnicity (I don't).

8 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

So you don't believe JonnyF is a Romford Balloon Dancer?

You are clearly a lot more polite than me!

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

That was an excellent watch. And so interesting that racists in 2006 said exactly the same as racists in 2026. "Can't be English unless you go back X number of generations", "London is like an alien city", "we're being displaced", "immigrants coming over here to get free things", "culture culture blah blah". Hilarious.

The best bit was seeing their racist little faces when their worlds came crashing down when they got their results, especially the woman who then went on to threaten to sue the BBC. And JonnyF Balloon Man was absolutely gutted, especially when he had to concede the Ian Wright point.

Marvelous.

They weren't all the same. Damien the squaddie from Leicestershire showed an excellent attitude to the insight about his background. Flaxen haired English Rose looked horrified to find out she was actually Mongolian. But the best was the silly bint who ran the Steadfast Trust, moaning about the genocide of the Anglo-Saxon people and weeping at Harold's grave. I think she tried to sue the programmers after.

The technology has evolved immensely since.

My own mongrel background. Sadly, I was disappointed. My mothers side I can trace back to the 1550s, and its all Leicestershire-Rutland, farm labourer types. My father was from Hackney, and London is a challenge, I can get back to about 1810 when a retired soldier rocked up in the Capital. I sort of hoped he was a descendant of Clive's Army, with something exotic going on. But not. Based on the surname, I suspect solid North Yorkshire/Northumberland. London is hard because of the industrial revolution, and it became a honeypot, attracting people from all over.

I recommend everyone to study their family history, if not already. I suspect many here though are "top of the tree", and those with memories that can connect to the early 20th or 19th Century are gone.

I'm not concerned about bloodline, breeding, with respect to nationality. Nationality is a political construct; what nationality you feel is in your heart. Wrighty was a fine player for England. Bukayo Saka is probably an even better player, and, by all accounts, in his private life, has values most of us will aspire to.

I started off the tree trying to ask questions about myself; where did my lefthandedness come from, why do I think the way I think. You look for repeating patterns, and sometimes you see that. But over time, it becomes a matter of gratitude. If you do your family history, unless you cam from landed gentry and now sleep in the gutter, you will feel profoundly grateful for the time you were born in, that you were so lucky to be born at the best possible time. But also I can look back at 30 generations of people, all of whom make up who I am. But probably they were much like me, but never had the opportunity. And for lifelong Conservatives like me, this is where it gets tough. They weren't lazy. They weren't inadequate. They were just denied their chance. From the family history, clearly WW1 was a major instigator of social change, with an entire generated literally being decimated. Biggest change in British society for at least 1500 years, it was that big. Boys from the workhouse got into the army, got a job at the foundry, found jobs for their sons at the foundry, who became engineers, who's children became nurses and lab techs, who's children became Directors of Research at London Plcs.

So in the debate about Britishness, Englishness, Scottishness, I really don't care where people were born. If they meet a standard that a democratically approved law determines, and if they feel British etc, that's good enough for me. Welcome aboard. Kemi is right about British values, but she has to be careful not to confuse British values, with , say German values. We are not an ossified society. Britain has punched way above its weight because of our ability to constantly reinvent ourselves. We have no issue absorbing new foreign words into the lingo, unlike, say, the French, who got in a tizzie trying to think of a snappy alternative to T-shirt. We look for common values, which are usually just good human values, and we admire the new values added to our mix (I admire the hardwork displayed by the Patels as they keep their corner shop open to Midnight, we admire the tenacity of the Gurkha, we enjoy the clearly joyful sense of community displayed by the England players who are of African descent).

Nelson's Column is frequently cited as a symbol of indefatigable Britishness. It wasn't paid for by the government. It was paid for 25+ years after his death through a public whip around. On the reliefs, is a depiction of an African sailor, standing guard over the fallen Nelson. 23 year old George Ryan, from the Caribbean. Likely born a slave. British.

3 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

They weren't all the same. Damien the squaddie from Leicestershire showed an excellent attitude to the insight about his background. Flaxen haired English Rose looked horrified to find out she was actually Mongolian. But the best was the silly bint who ran the Steadfast Trust, moaning about the genocide of the Anglo-Saxon people and weeping at Harold's grave. I think she tried to sue the programmers after.

The technology has evolved immensely since.

My own mongrel background. Sadly, I was disappointed. My mothers side I can trace back to the 1550s, and its all Leicestershire-Rutland, farm labourer types. My father was from Hackney, and London is a challenge, I can get back to about 1810 when a retired soldier rocked up in the Capital. I sort of hoped he was a descendant of Clive's Army, with something exotic going on. But not. Based on the surname, I suspect solid North Yorkshire/Northumberland. London is hard because of the industrial revolution, and it became a honeypot, attracting people from all over.

I recommend everyone to study their family history, if not already. I suspect many here though are "top of the tree", and those with memories that can connect to the early 20th or 19th Century are gone.

I'm not concerned about bloodline, breeding, with respect to nationality. Nationality is a political construct; what nationality you feel is in your heart. Wrighty was a fine player for England. Bukayo Saka is probably an even better player, and, by all accounts, in his private life, has values most of us will aspire to.

I started off the tree trying to ask questions about myself; where did my lefthandedness come from, why do I think the way I think. You look for repeating patterns, and sometimes you see that. But over time, it becomes a matter of gratitude. If you do your family history, unless you cam from landed gentry and now sleep in the gutter, you will feel profoundly grateful for the time you were born in, that you were so lucky to be born at the best possible time. But also I can look back at 30 generations of people, all of whom make up who I am. But probably they were much like me, but never had the opportunity. And for lifelong Conservatives like me, this is where it gets tough. They weren't lazy. They weren't inadequate. They were just denied their chance. From the family history, clearly WW1 was a major instigator of social change, with an entire generated literally being decimated. Biggest change in British society for at least 1500 years, it was that big. Boys from the workhouse got into the army, got a job at the foundry, found jobs for their sons at the foundry, who became engineers, who's children became nurses and lab techs, who's children became Directors of Research at London Plcs.

So in the debate about Britishness, Englishness, Scottishness, I really don't care where people were born. If they meet a standard that a democratically approved law determines, and if they feel British etc, that's good enough for me. Welcome aboard. Kemi is right about British values, but she has to be careful not to confuse British values, with , say German values. We are not an ossified society. Britain has punched way above its weight because of our ability to constantly reinvent ourselves. We have no issue absorbing new foreign words into the lingo, unlike, say, the French, who got in a tizzie trying to think of a snappy alternative to T-shirt. We look for common values, which are usually just good human values, and we admire the new values added to our mix (I admire the hardwork displayed by the Patels as they keep their corner shop open to Midnight, we admire the tenacity of the Gurkha, we enjoy the clearly joyful sense of community displayed by the England players who are of African descent).

Nelson's Column is frequently cited as a symbol of indefatigable Britishness. It wasn't paid for by the government. It was paid for 25+ years after his death through a public whip around. On the reliefs, is a depiction of an African sailor, standing guard over the fallen Nelson. 23 year old George Ryan, from the Caribbean. Likely born a slave. British.

To be fair the squaddie came across ok, yeah. And yes, Mrs Flaxen Hair did threaten to sue. I think Garry Bushell also did, but ultimately neither lawsuit went ahead.

I also agree it is something more people should explore. I know my previous generations have Hungarian, Irish as well as, obviously English. I wouldn't qualify as English in Jonny's world. And now my kids are half Thai and all the mix and heritage that brings to things.

Jonny's been remarkably quiet today, maybe he's out stocking up on balloons?

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

They weren't all the same. Damien the squaddie from Leicestershire showed an excellent attitude to the insight about his background. Flaxen haired English Rose looked horrified to find out she was actually Mongolian. But the best was the silly bint who ran the Steadfast Trust, moaning about the genocide of the Anglo-Saxon people and weeping at Harold's grave. I think she tried to sue the programmers after.

The technology has evolved immensely since.

My own mongrel background. Sadly, I was disappointed. My mothers side I can trace back to the 1550s, and its all Leicestershire-Rutland, farm labourer types. My father was from Hackney, and London is a challenge, I can get back to about 1810 when a retired soldier rocked up in the Capital. I sort of hoped he was a descendant of Clive's Army, with something exotic going on. But not. Based on the surname, I suspect solid North Yorkshire/Northumberland. London is hard because of the industrial revolution, and it became a honeypot, attracting people from all over.

I recommend everyone to study their family history, if not already. I suspect many here though are "top of the tree", and those with memories that can connect to the early 20th or 19th Century are gone.

I'm not concerned about bloodline, breeding, with respect to nationality. Nationality is a political construct; what nationality you feel is in your heart. Wrighty was a fine player for England. Bukayo Saka is probably an even better player, and, by all accounts, in his private life, has values most of us will aspire to.

I started off the tree trying to ask questions about myself; where did my lefthandedness come from, why do I think the way I think. You look for repeating patterns, and sometimes you see that. But over time, it becomes a matter of gratitude. If you do your family history, unless you cam from landed gentry and now sleep in the gutter, you will feel profoundly grateful for the time you were born in, that you were so lucky to be born at the best possible time. But also I can look back at 30 generations of people, all of whom make up who I am. But probably they were much like me, but never had the opportunity. And for lifelong Conservatives like me, this is where it gets tough. They weren't lazy. They weren't inadequate. They were just denied their chance. From the family history, clearly WW1 was a major instigator of social change, with an entire generated literally being decimated. Biggest change in British society for at least 1500 years, it was that big. Boys from the workhouse got into the army, got a job at the foundry, found jobs for their sons at the foundry, who became engineers, who's children became nurses and lab techs, who's children became Directors of Research at London Plcs.

So in the debate about Britishness, Englishness, Scottishness, I really don't care where people were born. If they meet a standard that a democratically approved law determines, and if they feel British etc, that's good enough for me. Welcome aboard. Kemi is right about British values, but she has to be careful not to confuse British values, with , say German values. We are not an ossified society. Britain has punched way above its weight because of our ability to constantly reinvent ourselves. We have no issue absorbing new foreign words into the lingo, unlike, say, the French, who got in a tizzie trying to think of a snappy alternative to T-shirt. We look for common values, which are usually just good human values, and we admire the new values added to our mix (I admire the hardwork displayed by the Patels as they keep their corner shop open to Midnight, we admire the tenacity of the Gurkha, we enjoy the clearly joyful sense of community displayed by the England players who are of African descent).

Nelson's Column is frequently cited as a symbol of indefatigable Britishness. It wasn't paid for by the government. It was paid for 25+ years after his death through a public whip around. On the reliefs, is a depiction of an African sailor, standing guard over the fallen Nelson. 23 year old George Ryan, from the Caribbean. Likely born a slave. British.

Another excellent post.

I have had an Ancestry subscription for a while now but still haven't used it (Maybe I should use the time spent on this forum utilising the Ancestry application instead).

Personally, my test of 'Englishness' is 1) an individual has to be born in England or be a naturalised Brit AND 2) they must identify themselves as English and what that entails.

Despite asking you-know-who on numerous occasions why the offspring of Romans, Normans, Huguenots, etc can be labelled 'ethnic English', but the offspring of black slaves born in England, the Windrush generation, Asian immigrants, etc cannot my question remains unanswered.

17 hours ago, RayC said:

"The first inhabitants of Australia are the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They have lived on the continent for at least 65,000 years, making their culture one of the oldest continuous living traditions in human history" (Source: Google AI)

But hey, you have never let facts get in the way of your racist bigotry, Jonathan, so why start now.

Wrong again.

Aboriginal Australians are not 100% ethnically pure. That does not mean you can erase the ethnicity, although you wouldn't try in this case as they are not white and we all know how racist Raymond applies the rules.

While some remote communities in Northern Australia have higher proportions of unmixed indigenous heritage, centuries of colonization, intermarriage, and forced displacement mean that genetic and cultural diversity varies widely.

On 8/23/2026 at 12:40 PM, RayC said:

Another excellent post.

I have had an Ancestry subscription for a while now but still haven't used it (Maybe I should use the time spent on this forum utilising the Ancestry application instead).

Personally, my test of 'Englishness' is 1) an individual has to be born in England or be a naturalised Brit AND 2) they must identify themselves as English and what that entails.

Despite asking you-know-who on numerous occasions why the offspring of Romans, Normans, Huguenots, etc can be labelled 'ethnic English', but the offspring of black slaves born in England, the Windrush generation, Asian immigrants, etc cannot my question remains unanswered.

Is to be from Cornwall to be English? Apparently not according to bumper stickers.

Turns out the British can have as many identities as they like. We can be all these things, at once. Which is where I disagree with Tebbit's Cricket Test.

On 8/24/2026 at 3:32 AM, JonnyF said:

Wrong again.

Aboriginal Australians are not 100% ethnically pure. That does not mean you can erase the ethnicity, although you wouldn't try in this case as they are not white and we all know how racist Raymond applies the rules.

While some remote communities in Northern Australia have higher proportions of unmixed indigenous heritage, centuries of colonization, intermarriage, and forced displacement mean that genetic and cultural diversity varies widely.

And that it meant to be some sort of justification for your contention that black people cannot be 'ethnically English'?

Did you watch the '100% English" program (link supplied by @Roadsternut )? According to you, those in the programme with North African or South Asian heritage can't be 'ethnically English'. Or maybe I've got that wrong: Is it only 'Blacks' that are not 'ethnically English' and those with Arab or Asian heritage pass your test?

Just admit to your racism and be done with it.

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

And that it meant to be some sort of justification for your contention that black people cannot be 'ethnically English'?

Did you watch the '100% English" program (link supplied by @Roadsternut )? According to you, those in the programme with North African or South Asian heritage can't be 'ethnically English'. Or maybe I've got that wrong: Is it only 'Blacks' that are not 'ethnically English' and those with Arab or Asian heritage pass your test?

Just admit to your racism and be done with it.

It's not that they "cannot be". They just "are not". 😄

English ethnicity is defined as below.

Therefore (obviously) Asians, Arabs, and Africans are not ethnically English.

Nothing to do with racism. It's a historical fact about the origins of the ethnically English. It is no more racist than saying Han Chinese cannot be ethnically Yoruban. 😄

You seem to think that accusing someone of Racism will immediately make them back down from their factually correct position, apologize profusely, take the knee and agree with your fiction, Raymond.

We're not all soft in the head like you self loathing Libs, but it's highly amusing watching you try this tactic (and fail) again and again. 😆🤣

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's not that they "cannot be". They just "are not". 😄

English ethnicity is defined as below.

Therefore (obviously) Asians, Arabs, and Africans are not ethnically English.

Nothing to do with racism. It's a historical fact about the origins of the ethnically English. It is no more racist than saying Han Chinese cannot be ethnically Yoruban. 😄

You seem to think that accusing someone of Racism will immediately make them back down from their factually correct position, apologize profusely, take the knee and agree with your fiction, Raymond.

We're not all soft in the head like you self loathing Libs, but it's highly amusing watching you try this tactic (and fail) again and again. 😆🤣

And yet again, you completely avoid addressing any points or questions raised which contradict your narrow, bigoted views.

Those are not "facts". They are the rantings of someone who is trying in vain to find a rational justification for his racism.

How about this fellow: Is he 'ethically English'?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals

If you don't want to answer that question, answer this one:

Why does it matter whether a living Englishman is black or white?

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

And yet again, you completely avoid addressing any points or questions raised which contradict your narrow, bigoted views.

I answered the question as directly as possible.

Arabs, Asians and black people are not ethnically English. I don't believe I could have been more clear. I even backed it up with a definition of "ethnically English" to prove what I was saying is true.

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

How about this fellow: Is he 'ethically English'?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals

I don't know anything about his ethics. Never met the bloke. Bit of a weird name, I'm sure he was nice enough though.

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

If you don't want to answer that question, answer this one:

Why does it matter whether a living Englishman is black or white?

Depends what you mean by "Englishman". If you mean a man who is ethnically English the question is fundamentally flawed, since a black man is not ethnically English no matter what paperwork he holds.

It's like asking "why does it matter if a man gives birth to a child?".

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I answered the question as directly as possible.

Arabs, Asians and black people are not ethnically English. I don't believe I could have been more clear. I even backed it up with a definition of "ethnically English" to prove what I was saying is true.

I don't know anything about his ethics. Never met the bloke. Bit of a weird name, I'm sure he was nice enough though.

More avoidance. I'll rephrase the question, correct the typo and add a bit of context

The genome of Cheddar Man, who lived 10,000 years ago, suggests that he had blue eyes, dark to black skin and dark curly hair

Now, Jonny was this individual 'ethnically English'?

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Depends what you mean by "Englishman". If you mean a man who is ethnically English the question is fundamentally flawed, since a black man is not ethnically English no matter what paperwork he holds.

It's like asking "why does it matter if a man gives birth to a child?".

Doesn't answer my question. I'll try again and add another:

Why does it matter whether a living Englishman is black or white?

Two individuals living in England. One was born in England to Jamaican parents, the other is 'ethnic English' by your definition. Both are decent, hard-working, law-abiding citizens. In short, 'good people'. Why does it matter that one is 'ethnically English' and the other is not?

Ethnicity is not based on genetic purity. The very name "English" originated from the invading Angles, and then the Saxe. They didn't invade an empty land. They invaded land inhabited by Celtic Britons. But being Celtic is a group defined by linguistics, and not DNA. Among that population were Romano-Britons, Iberians, Gauls and Germanic tribes. One of the features of the Ancestry DNA test is you can download your "sequence" and upload that to other platforms drawing upon different pools. So apparently I have a match to some poor Iron age bugger they dig up in Bedfordshire, but also from a dig in Prague, and one over on the shores of the Black Sea. So, I'd say, there is a bit of a Romano-Briton in me. Now, we can't argue that all European people are much the same; the British Isles had been separated from the European continent to achieve a genetic distinctiveness, thanks to the smaller gene pool. So, being English, based on "ethnicity" is a moving definition, depending on the degree of bastardisation that has occurred. Or, its meaningless, given that a sense of being "English" is actually a modern construct. Before "Englishness" was created, my ancestors might have been Middle Sax, or maybe Iceni, or was it the Briganti. Ironically we throw away those native ethnicities in favour of embracing an invading ethnicity, the proponent now moan when its not ossified.

In the 21st Century, Englishness is based around culture and upbringing, and civic belonging, with the invading ethnicity receding. It, like Britishness, is actually whatever you want it to be. The English don't yearn for anything like the reunification Germanic people. There are some, mostly Mosleyites, who see Englishness something like Teutonic values, but that German nationalism was ultimately because of small man syndrome.