Anger! What should a Buddhist do?

[thaibebop]

I can become very angry, very quick. Not just about anything, but things that I think are wrong. Someone does something bad and doesn't care who they hurt or why, I'll het mad, that kind of thing. Injustices. I guess you could say it's sometimes a rightous anger I suffer from. The issue is I feel that this anger can be a good thing, motivation to do something about it, but it always seems to get the better of me.

I have met many here you have been monks and/or have studied Buddhism for a long time. I was hoping that someone would be able to speak on Buddhist techniques on anger control.

[Gohonzon]

Hi thaibebop

firstly, you are right to say that destructive and negative anger can have its positive aspects. That is,it can be a drive to speak out and even act against injustice,and so forth. But the problem when anger (or any one of the other life states) becomes too dominant within our lives.

It is best to remember that all of these lower life states are in fact states of mind. Not the easiest thing to concentrate on when in the grips of such a (seemingly) all engulfing emotion. But this is where spiritual PT --as I call it--comes into the equation. Spiritual training will help losen both the time and power of these life conditions. And of course understanding what the real aspect of these life conditions are. In each of these personal worlds lies the seeds of all others.

However, personally speaking. This morning for instance, for some reason, I felt unreasonably angry about several small things. My Evil Friend (MEF) was seeking to have a field day. MEF is the part of ourselves which undermines the positive life-force that lies within us. When MEF gets a hold we can find ourselves in all sorts of unhelpful and self-defeating states of mind.

But his was before my morning practice ,whch involves about 30 minutes chanting of a mantra and recitation of part of one of the sutras. It is this practice which allows us to tap into our true life-force, bringing out that which drives us in a positive way. And guess what? No more anger.

So basically, my advice is to develop a practice which will build-up your spiritual muscles (so to speak). Understand that although Anger may be you dominant life state, it is in fact as transient as any other state of mind; Hunger (under the sway of desires) , Animality (instinctive behaviour) or even Tranquility (neutral state of peace and calm) ,for instance.

Lastly, develop a way to deal with your anger in any given situation whe you find it getting out of control, or "getting the better of you".

Obviously, deep and thoughtful breathing is one technique. Chanting another (whether silently, or if possible, out loudly).

Really it's a case of turning poison into medicine and realising that by observing our minds we can also control it.

I hope that this has been helpful.

[thaibebop]

Hi thaibebop

firstly, you are right to say that destructive and negative anger can have its positive aspects. That is,it can be a drive to speak out and even act against injustice,and so forth. But the problem when anger (or any one of the other life states) becomes too dominant within our lives.

It is best to remember that all of these lower life states are in fact states of mind. Not the easiest thing to concentrate on when in the grips of such a (seemingly) all engulfing emotion. But this is where spiritual PT --as I call it--comes into the equation.  Spiritual training will help losen both the time and power of these life conditions. And of course understanding what the real aspect of these life conditions are. In each of these personal worlds lies the seeds of all others.

However, personally speaking. This morning for instance, for some reason, I felt unreasonably angry about several small things. My Evil Friend (MEF) was seeking to have a field day. MEF is the part of ourselves which undermines the positive life-force that lies within us. When MEF gets a hold we can find ourselves in all sorts of unhelpful and self-defeating states of mind.

But his was before my morning practice ,whch involves about 30 minutes chanting of a mantra and recitation of part of one of the sutras. It is this practice which allows us to tap into our true life-force, bringing out that which drives us in a positive way. And guess what? No more anger.

So basically, my advice is to develop a practice which will build-up your spiritual muscles (so to speak). Understand that although Anger may be you dominant life state, it is in fact as transient as any other state of mind; Hunger (under the sway of desires) , Animality (instinctive behaviour) or even Tranquility (neutral state of peace and calm) ,for instance.

Lastly, develop a way to deal with your anger in any given situation whe you find it getting out of control, or "getting the better of you".

Obviously, deep and thoughtful breathing is one technique. Chanting another (whether silently, or if possible, out loudly).

Really it's a case of turning poison into medicine and realising that by observing our minds we can also control it.

I hope that this has been helpful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, that's very helpful.

I feel a little better. I sometimes feel like there are two of me in one body and one of them can't be trusted. My anger sometimes doesn't seem to be my own, but I know it is. So, I will try what you say. Thanks again.

[chuchok]

I can become very angry, very quick. Not just about anything, but things that I think are wrong. Someone does something bad and doesn't care who they hurt or why, I'll het mad, that kind of thing. Injustices. I guess you could say it's sometimes a rightous anger I suffer from. The issue is I feel that this anger can be a good thing, motivation to do something about it, but it always seems to get the better of me.

I have met many here you have been monks and/or have studied Buddhism for a long time. I was hoping that someone would be able to speak on Buddhist techniques on anger control.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well considering what you said to a lady on this forum, my first piece of advice would be to grow up and calm down.

[thaibebop]

I can become very angry, very quick. Not just about anything, but things that I think are wrong. Someone does something bad and doesn't care who they hurt or why, I'll het mad, that kind of thing. Injustices. I guess you could say it's sometimes a rightous anger I suffer from. The issue is I feel that this anger can be a good thing, motivation to do something about it, but it always seems to get the better of me.

I have met many here you have been monks and/or have studied Buddhism for a long time. I was hoping that someone would be able to speak on Buddhist techniques on anger control.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well considering what you said to a lady on this forum, my first piece of advice would be to grow up and calm down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I will tell you that when I don't think something is right I will question it. It matters not if the person I am questioning is man or woman. We are equals, I will not treat them any differently then anyone else.

Calm down, good advice (if not simple)

Grow up? What you never get pissed off? So, to suggest that because I lost my temper I should grow up is all you have to offer me? Get real, we are all humans.

By the way, that wet blanket comment, that was a real grown up response wasn't? Couldn't say anything than an insult, could ya? Don't advise me chuhok. You clearly are just taking sides, because she's a woman, what sexism you are displaying.

[cdnvic]

Take it into PM if you want to argue about off topic matters. We try to keep it a tad more civilized in this part of the forum.

cv

[chownah]

thaibebop,

Along with the other good advice given I recommend trying to be aware of the anger as it begins. Usually there is a strong physical sensation as the anger is coming on...tightness of chest, shallow breathing, etc etc etc.... It takes a bit of self training to recognize these symptoms early. One way to start is to take stock of your physical sensations the next time you are angry...even if you have been angry for awhile...even if you only think of it after the anger has gone you can, perhaps, remember the physical sensations. By training yourself to be sensitive to the physical onset of anger you will probably find that eventually you will teach yourself to detect these changes at a very early stage. This should not be done with the intent to stop your anger...it should be done so that you can be aware of your anger manifesting itself...to help you to be familiar with your anger. Once you are familiar with your anger you probably will start to understand how and why you get angry...I'm not talking about "she said that so I got angry" but something much more subtle...something about yourself and not about the external factor that we normally say caused our anger...because really it is not the external factor causing our anger, it is ourselves. I can not tell you what you will learn about yourself because we are all different and have different things driving us into the state of anger...the thing that drives you can be discovered by you and the most helpful thing to do this (in my opinion) is to become aware of your anger in a way that helps you to understand it.

[thaibebop]

thaibebop,

Along with the other good advice given I recommend trying to be aware of the anger as it begins.  Usually there is a strong physical sensation as the anger is coming on...tightness of chest, shallow breathing, etc etc etc....  It takes a bit of self training to recognize these symptoms early.  One way to start is to take stock of your physical sensations the next time you are angry...even if you have been angry for awhile...even if you only think of it after the anger has gone you can, perhaps, remember the physical sensations.  By training yourself to be sensitive to the physical onset of anger you will probably find that eventually you will teach yourself to detect these changes at a very early stage.  This should not be done with the intent to stop your anger...it should be done so that you can be aware of your anger manifesting itself...to help you to be familiar with your anger.  Once you are familiar with your anger you probably will start to understand how and why you get angry...I'm not talking about "she said that so I got angry" but something much more subtle...something about yourself and not about the external factor that we normally say caused our anger...because really it is not the external factor causing our anger, it is ourselves.  I can not tell you what you will learn about yourself because we are all different and have different things driving us into the state of anger...the thing that drives you can be discovered by you and the most helpful thing to do this (in my opinion) is to become aware of your anger in a way that helps you to understand it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you.

I should know better, because I know that I control my emotions not other people. However, I never tried to find that moment when I got mad. That might help so, I will try. Thanks again.

[Neeranam]

I can become very angry, very quick. Not just about anything, but things that I think are wrong. Someone does something bad and doesn't care who they hurt or why, I'll het mad, that kind of thing. Injustices. I guess you could say it's sometimes a rightous anger I suffer from. The issue is I feel that this anger can be a good thing, motivation to do something about it, but it always seems to get the better of me.

I have met many here you have been monks and/or have studied Buddhism for a long time. I was hoping that someone would be able to speak on Buddhist techniques on anger control.

Thaibebop, Self-rightoeus anger is a potential killer for me.

Self-righteous anger also can be very enjotable. In a perverse way I can actually take satisfaction from the fact that many people annoy me, for it brings a comfortable feeling of superiority. Gossip along with my anger is a polite form of murder by character assassination, and can also be satisfying.

Here, I am not tryig to help those that I criticize, I am trying to proclaim my own righteousness. This is one of my problems with character defects, I like some of them.

If someone hurts me and I am sore, Iam in the wrong also

I can do something about my anger . I can fix me, instaed of trying to fix THEM. I believe that there are no exceptions to this axiom.

When I am angry, my anger is ALWAYS self-centred.

I have to keep reminding myself that I am human, that I am doing my best(even when that best is poor).

Sorry this is not Buddhist, but may have some smilarities, I don;t know.

[sabaijai]

what the Buddha had to say about anger and hate:

Though one may conquer

a thousand times a thousand men in battle,

yet he indeed is the noblest victor

who conquers himself.

Dhammapada 103

Whose mind is like rock, steady, unmoved,

dispassionate for things that spark passion,

unangered by things that spark anger:

When one's mind is developed like this,

from where can there come suffering & stress?

Udana IV, 4

Happy indeed we live,

friendly amidst the hostile.

Amidst hostile men

we dwell free from hatred.

Dhammapada 198

Hate brings great misfortune,

hate churns up and harms the mind;

this fearful danger deep within

most people do not understand.

Itivuttaka 84

Winning gives birth to hostility.

Losing, one lies down in pain.

The calmed lie down with ease,

having set winning & losing aside.

Samyutta Nikaya III.14

Having killed anger you sleep in ease.

Having killed anger you do not grieve.

The noble ones praise the slaying of anger

-- with its honeyed crest & poison root --

for having killed it you do not grieve.

Samyutta Nikaya II, 70

[thaibebop]

what the Buddha had to say about anger and hate:

Though one may conquer

a thousand times a thousand men in battle,

yet he indeed is the noblest victor

who conquers himself.

Dhammapada 103

Whose mind is like rock, steady, unmoved,

dispassionate for things that spark passion,

unangered by things that spark anger:

When one's mind is developed like this,

from where can there come suffering & stress?

Udana IV, 4

Happy indeed we live,

friendly amidst the hostile.

Amidst hostile men

we dwell free from hatred.

Dhammapada 198

Hate brings great misfortune,

hate churns up and harms the mind;

this fearful danger deep within

most people do not understand.

Itivuttaka 84

Winning gives birth to hostility.

Losing, one lies down in pain.

The calmed lie down with ease,

having set winning & losing aside.

Samyutta Nikaya III.14

Having killed anger you sleep in ease.

Having killed anger you do not grieve.

The noble ones praise the slaying of anger

-- with its honeyed crest & poison root --

for having killed it you do not grieve.

Samyutta Nikaya II, 70

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sabaijai, all these cuttings are great! Thank you. I was wonder if you could tell me what a person, who has read nothing but Zen (D.T. Suzuki) and has serveral other books on Buddhism, but always gets confused on where to start, should start? I speak of older texts, not new interpretations, but Suttas, and Ten Lives of the Buddha.

Neeranam, I completely understand, and I think both of us being able to recognize this is ourselves has a lot to do with Buddhism. So, thanks for chipping in.

[camerata]

Sabaijai, all these cuttings are great! Thank you. I was wonder if you could tell me what a person, who has read nothing but Zen (D.T. Suzuki) and has serveral other books on Buddhism, but always gets confused on where to start, should start? I speak of older texts, not new interpretations, but Suttas, and Ten Lives of the Buddha.

Even though the suttas - especially the Pali Canon - are considered the original texts of Buddhism, they might not necessarily be a good place to start. They are, after all, rather tedious, repetitive and sometimes difficult for a modern reader to understand since they were spoken 2,500 years ago mostly to Indian renunciants who had a very different worldview from us. And any translation you read is in fact someone's interpretation of the Pali.

The way I look at it, it's better start with a distillation of the teachings by someone who really understands them and knows how to communicate their essence - preferably an enlightened practitioner who is also a scholar. The best book of this type I've come across so far is Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness : Walking the Buddha's Path by Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, a Sri Lankan monk.

I think the Ten Lives of Buddha refers to the ten Jataka Tales - tales of the Buddha-to-be's former lives, each one illustrating how he achieved one of the ten perfections. There are many of these tales, and you can find a lot of them on the web.

[thaibebop]

Sabaijai, all these cuttings are great! Thank you. I was wonder if you could tell me what a person, who has read nothing but Zen (D.T. Suzuki) and has serveral other books on Buddhism, but always gets confused on where to start, should start? I speak of older texts, not new interpretations, but Suttas, and Ten Lives of the Buddha.

Even though the suttas - especially the Pali Canon - are considered the original texts of Buddhism, they might not necessarily be a good place to start. They are, after all, rather tedious, repetitive and sometimes difficult for a modern reader to understand since they were spoken 2,500 years ago mostly to Indian renunciants who had a very different worldview from us. And any translation you read is in fact someone's interpretation of the Pali.

The way I look at it, it's better start with a distillation of the teachings by someone who really understands them and knows how to communicate their essence - preferably an enlightened practitioner who is also a scholar. The best book of this type I've come across so far is Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness : Walking the Buddha's Path by Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, a Sri Lankan monk.

I think the Ten Lives of Buddha refers to the ten Jataka Tales - tales of the Buddha-to-be's former lives, each one illustrating how he achieved one of the ten perfections. There are many of these tales, and you can find a lot of them on the web.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have read some of the Ten Jataka Tales but couldn't figure out how they fit in with everything else. It's frustrating because after reading Zen based material and "getting" it, I find myself easily confused by older forms of Buddhism. So,a lot of my reading has been from H.H. The Dalai Lama, or by western writers like Mark Epstein. Great books, as I am sure you know, they don't get in to the meat of the philosophy, just a laymans verison. So, thank you very much. I'll see if I can get my hands on this book.

[camerata]

I have read some of the Ten Jataka Tales but couldn't figure out how they fit in with everything else.

I think as far as Theravadins are concerned, they are used as examples of how to lead a good life and they are an easy way to teach Buddhism to kids.

It's frustrating because after reading Zen based material and "getting" it, I find myself easily confused by older forms of Buddhism. So,a lot of my reading has been from H.H. The Dalai Lama, or by western writers like Mark Epstein. Great books, as I am sure you know, they don't get in to the meat of the philosophy, just a laymans verison. So, thank you very much. I'll see if I can get my hands on this book.

It will be a bit confusing if you are bouncing around from Zen to Tibetan to "Western" Buddhism and then delving into Theravada. I like Gunaratana's book because it gives you the nuts and bolts of the (Theravada) teachings and the practice as they relate to everyday life. Incidentally, it has a small section on managing anger and how that fits into the broader practice.

[Gohonzon]

I have read some of the Ten Jataka Tales but couldn't figure out how they fit in with everything else.

I think as far as Theravadins are concerned, they are used as examples of how to lead a good life and they are an easy way to teach Buddhism to kids.

It's frustrating because after reading Zen based material and "getting" it, I find myself easily confused by older forms of Buddhism. So,a lot of my reading has been from H.H. The Dalai Lama, or by western writers like Mark Epstein. Great books, as I am sure you know, they don't get in to the meat of the philosophy, just a laymans verison. So, thank you very much. I'll see if I can get my hands on this book.

It will be a bit confusing if you are bouncing around from Zen to Tibetan to "Western" Buddhism and then delving into Theravada. I like Gunaratana's book because it gives you the nuts and bolts of the (Theravada) teachings and the practice as they relate to everyday life. Incidentally, it has a small section on managing anger and how that fits into the broader practice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm remided of this quote from Soka Gakkai president,Daisaku Ikeda

While it is true that Buddhism embodies a profound philosophy of life, and we must not depreciate the intellectual side, in its essence Buddhist doctrines enlarge on the Buddha's own enlightenment — enlightenment which can be acquired only through practice.

Whilst it's all well and good to read around different schools of Buddhism--each has its own truths and wisdom. Unless we are fully committed to one form of practice then we will become confused and not really move on from where we are; except in theoretical knowledge. It's only in regular practice--supplemented by study--that we actually grow in Wisdom and Compassion. Otherwise (as Nichiren Daishonin once said) we only look at the shadow of the moon, and not at the moon itself.

[sabaijai]

what the Buddha had to say about anger and hate:

Though one may conquer

a thousand times a thousand men in battle,

yet he indeed is the noblest victor

who conquers himself.

Dhammapada 103

Whose mind is like rock, steady, unmoved,

dispassionate for things that spark passion,

unangered by things that spark anger:

When one's mind is developed like this,

from where can there come suffering & stress?

Udana IV, 4

Happy indeed we live,

friendly amidst the hostile.

Amidst hostile men

we dwell free from hatred.

Dhammapada 198

Hate brings great misfortune,

hate churns up and harms the mind;

this fearful danger deep within

most people do not understand.

Itivuttaka 84

Winning gives birth to hostility.

Losing, one lies down in pain.

The calmed lie down with ease,

having set winning & losing aside.

Samyutta Nikaya III.14

Having killed anger you sleep in ease.

Having killed anger you do not grieve.

The noble ones praise the slaying of anger

-- with its honeyed crest & poison root --

for having killed it you do not grieve.

Samyutta Nikaya II, 70

Sabaijai, all these cuttings are great! Thank you. I was wonder if you could tell me what a person, who has read nothing but Zen (D.T. Suzuki) and has serveral other books on Buddhism, but always gets confused on where to start, should start? I speak of older texts, not new interpretations, but Suttas, and Ten Lives of the Buddha.

I think the Dhammapada is a good place to start. Lots to ponder on.

It's true what people say about books, they only take you so far. But without taking notice of the finger pointing at the moon you may never come to see the moon. Beginners on the path need books unless they're living full time with a very wise teacher with a lot of time on his/her hands.

[thaibebop]

I have read some of the Ten Jataka Tales but couldn't figure out how they fit in with everything else.

I think as far as Theravadins are concerned, they are used as examples of how to lead a good life and they are an easy way to teach Buddhism to kids.

It's frustrating because after reading Zen based material and "getting" it, I find myself easily confused by older forms of Buddhism. So,a lot of my reading has been from H.H. The Dalai Lama, or by western writers like Mark Epstein. Great books, as I am sure you know, they don't get in to the meat of the philosophy, just a laymans verison. So, thank you very much. I'll see if I can get my hands on this book.

It will be a bit confusing if you are bouncing around from Zen to Tibetan to "Western" Buddhism and then delving into Theravada. I like Gunaratana's book because it gives you the nuts and bolts of the (Theravada) teachings and the practice as they relate to everyday life. Incidentally, it has a small section on managing anger and how that fits into the broader practice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm remided of this quote from Soka Gakkai president,Daisaku Ikeda

While it is true that Buddhism embodies a profound philosophy of life, and we must not depreciate the intellectual side, in its essence Buddhist doctrines enlarge on the Buddha's own enlightenment — enlightenment which can be acquired only through practice.

Whilst it's all well and good to read around different schools of Buddhism--each has its own truths and wisdom. Unless we are fully committed to one form of practice then we will become confused and not really move on from where we are; except in theoretical knowledge. It's only in regular practice--supplemented by study--that we actually grow in Wisdom and Compassion. Otherwise (as Nichiren Daishonin once said) we only look at the shadow of the moon, and not at the moon itself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is why I studied Zen first. I wanted to practice, and no one was here to teach, so, Zen worked. I still hold tight to many Zen ideas, so, I don't want to replace Zen, but add to it. When I started trying to read about other forms......

Just too much to try to sort out with out help. I'd be trying to make sense of thing for years. So, I read but take in what I read and try practicing what I read in a very Zen manner.

[sabaijai]

Zen literature is inspiring stuff. Suzuki's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is still near the top of my favourite all-time books on Buddhism. I carried a dog-eared copy of Zen Flesh, Zen Bones in my backpack during my 'dharma bum' years.

[sabaijai]

Chownah's post reflecting on classic mindfulness techniques used to deal with anger and other seemingly overwhelming emotions reminded me of two older threads in this branch of the forum that deal with the same subject. Thaibebop, you might find the discussions relevant to your original post.

Jai Yen

Looking for Spinoza

The latter starts with a post from TV member drummer:

I just wanted to see what people around here think of a book "Looking For Spinoza" by Antonio Damasio. Has anyone read it?

Although I dropped out for other persuits, I studied neurophysiology for a few years and have been an avid follower of info as it comes out- I found this book to be utterly fascinating. It puts forth a very specific, testable, reasonable and simple mechanism and purpose for emotions. I have only a very basic understanding of Buddhism, but many of the concepts seem to jive with general Buddhist thought that I am familiar with.

Heres a very basic summary:

Emotions are body states. Your brain measures how much adrenaline you are pumping, heart rate, sugar level, etc etc and creates a 'body map' You then look at the 'body map' and percieve what emotion, or mix of emotions best seems to fit - so "feelings" are your minds perception of your body state. Many of the basic mechanisms seemed to fit, like three levels of emotions interacting to lead to a plethora of feelings. I hesitate to go to far in, because frankly, I need to reread the book to be able to explain it fully, but it seemed to resonate with Buddhism, if that makes sense.

I have a lot of respect for Buddhist thought- especially when it comes to mental issues, so I'm quite curious to hear what people think.

[thaibebop]

Chownah's post reflecting on classic mindfulness techniques used to deal with anger and other seemingly overwhelming emotions reminded me of two older threads in this branch of the forum that deal with the same subject. Thaibebop, you might find the discussions relevant to your original post.

Jai Yen

Looking for Spinoza

The latter starts with a post from TV member drummer:

I just wanted to see what people around here think of a book "Looking For Spinoza" by Antonio Damasio. Has anyone read it?

Although I dropped out for other persuits, I studied neurophysiology for a few years and have been an avid follower of info as it comes out- I found this book to be utterly fascinating. It puts forth a very specific, testable, reasonable and simple mechanism and purpose for emotions. I have only a very basic understanding of Buddhism, but many of the concepts seem to jive with general Buddhist thought that I am familiar with.

Heres a very basic summary:

Emotions are body states. Your brain measures how much adrenaline you are pumping, heart rate, sugar level, etc etc and creates a 'body map' You then look at the 'body map' and percieve what emotion, or mix of emotions best seems to fit - so "feelings" are your minds perception of your body state. Many of the basic mechanisms seemed to fit, like three levels of emotions interacting to lead to a plethora of feelings. I hesitate to go to far in, because frankly, I need to reread the book to be able to explain it fully, but it seemed to resonate with Buddhism, if that makes sense.

I have a lot of respect for Buddhist thought- especially when it comes to mental issues, so I'm quite curious to hear what people think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! This is why I love to learn about Buddhism. Both posts are completely different yet related, and not just because they deal with anger. One of the reason I was drawn to Buddhism was that so much of fun I learned seemed liike emotion science. Ideas in Buddhism reflected laws in science, this still amazes me today. Thank you again.

I have read Suzuki's collected works and Manual of Zen Buddhism. Zen Flesh, Zen Bones I've read twice. Have you ever heard of Zen Comics by Ioanna Salajan. Lovely little books that illustrate some of the more famous Zen riddles, really a lot of fun.

[camerata]

This is why I studied Zen first. I wanted to practice, and no one was here to teach, so, Zen worked. I still hold tight to many Zen ideas, so, I don't want to replace Zen, but add to it. When I started trying to read about other forms......

If you want to stick with Zen, the Mahayana-Zen equivalent of the book I recommended would be The Heart of Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh. This gives you the fundamentals from a Mahayana-Zen perspective and he's written a lot of other books too - possibly as many as the Dalai Lama.

[thaibebop]

This is why I studied Zen first. I wanted to practice, and no one was here to teach, so, Zen worked. I still hold tight to many Zen ideas, so, I don't want to replace Zen, but add to it. When I started trying to read about other forms......

If you want to stick with Zen, the Mahayana-Zen equivalent of the book I recommended would be The Heart of Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh. This gives you the fundamentals from a Mahayana-Zen perspective and he's written a lot of other books too - possibly as many as the Dalai Lama.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have looked at his books so many times but never picked one up. I think I will. I want to continue learning about Zen, but with my wife being Thai and us going to live there I really wanted to get to the heart of Thailand's Buddhism. But really, I want to read it all. So many books, so little time!

[bina]

oof!!

its all like a gigantic super market, the more choices, the more confusing, the more i get a head ache........

i am passing the anger things on to my teenage son who is having a difficult time managing his anger at the moment and definately his chest gets tighter since he gets an asthma attack as he gets angry: definate connection to what drummer was getting at

[thaibebop]

oof!!

its all like a gigantic super market, the more choices, the more confusing, the more i get a head ache........

i am passing the anger things on to my teenage son who is having a difficult time managing his anger at the moment and definately his chest gets tighter since he gets an asthma attack as he gets angry: definate connection to what drummer was getting at

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Teenage anger is nothing to fool with. I got so mad at time when I was younger that I went in to a blind rage, one time even passed out from the rush of blood to my head. I have worked for years to throw off the family anger problem. My father's side of the family has always screamed and yelled and fought. I still don't think I am any where near where I need to be. But with a child of my own, I need to try harder.

[kayo]

This thread is extremely interesting to me. Partly as my father was an extremely irrational man, to my perception. In his eyes it was a righteous anger.

Partially though, because I´ve just accepted a new tenant in the flat i rent out, and he was already known to the village. A very angry yet extremely talented musician. I figured he won´t get another place and of most people in this village I am probably the best equipped in terms of patience to deal with him.

He seriously desires to become calmer, and realises he has a problem with anger, which he relates back to many of his life stories, since childhood.

All fair enough.

Point is, I´m interested.

I myself was not a particularly calm person, and I still have the odd random moment, though nowadays it is almost exclusivley in my own company.

This I believe is due to tremendous amounts of reading I have done in the past 8 or nine years, some time spent with monks, and even better, some time spent with 30 students at a thailand.

I never delved too deeply into the reading of the great masters, but one layman´s terms e-zine I subscribed to years ago helped me think about my state tremendously.

Very unfortunately, but the author became very very popular and as a result, his site is very much a commercial site now, and I don´t bother anymore.

However, have a look at his articles on the following link, but scroll down and start from the earliest ones (Volume 1.1 Aug 2000)

I think that these articles may be a good pond for you to learn swimming, before you decide to go unprepared into the rivers of existence.

Bless you for sharing your perspective of your state, and wishing you only help and encouragment.

Here´s the link.

I advise you not to search far beyond this page on his site, as it´s full of petty offers and pop ups. Could lead to anger. Anger leads to hatred... hatred to the (all together now: Dark Side On this page though, you can get what I´m talking about.

[thaibebop]

This thread is extremely interesting to me. Partly as my father was an extremely irrational man, to my perception. In his eyes it was a righteous anger.

Partially though, because I´ve just accepted a new tenant in the flat i rent out, and he was already known to the village. A very angry yet extremely talented musician. I figured he won´t get another place and of most people in this village I am probably the best equipped in terms of patience to deal with him.

He seriously desires to  become calmer, and realises he has a problem with anger, which he relates back to many of his life stories, since childhood.

All fair enough.

Point is, I´m interested.

I myself was not a particularly calm person, and I still have the odd random moment, though nowadays it is almost exclusivley in my own company.

This I believe is due to tremendous amounts of reading I have done in the past 8 or nine years, some time spent with monks, and even better, some time spent with 30 students at a thailand.

I never delved too deeply into the reading of the great masters, but one layman´s terms e-zine I subscribed to years ago helped me think about my state tremendously.

Very unfortunately, but the author became very very popular and as a result, his site is very much a commercial site now, and I don´t bother anymore.

However, have a look at his articles on the following link, but scroll down and start from the earliest ones (Volume 1.1 Aug 2000)

I think that these articles may be a good pond for you to learn swimming, before you decide to go unprepared into the rivers of existence.

Bless you for sharing your perspective of your state, and wishing you only help and encouragment.

Here´s the link.

I advise you not to search far beyond this page on his site, as it´s full of petty offers and pop ups. Could lead to anger. Anger leads to hatred... hatred to the (all together now: Dark Side  On this page though, you can get what I´m talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was really interesting, thanks for sharing.

[bina]

actually the blood rush to the head while angry used to happen to me; as a young girl, it took a long time to get riled up but when it happened, look out!!!!... until i went to study judo... had a nisai japanese teacher.... boy did i learn not to get angry and lose my temper!!!!! he had an old master teach with him, a real 'sensei' about 80 years old spoke not a word of english... i used to practice with him as a partner since i had the patience and discipline to practice the same small moves over and over and over (the same trait that allows me to work with and often rehabilitate animals... and he taught me w/o words, how to deal with anger... as i got angry, i lost concentration and thwack! i'd be on the floor; then as i bounced back at him, thwack! then he would sit down next to me and breathe... then we'd practice again so he basically was doing what is called behaviior modelling thru the practice session til i learned to stay calm and concentrate no matter what, that way i didnt go thwack! on the floor so many times:

all this because i alwalys had to fight girls way heavier and bigger than me no one was in my weight category, and the two girls who were, their fathers' were the two judo teachers in the area!!! talk about frustration.... one of the best things my parents ever did for me was enroll me in judo classes

unfortunately, in israel, anger management is not exactly practiced anywhere including in sports, and yelling screamng and generally losing it is not considered a problem but as just the way everyone is....

[Mr. Farang]

Replying to Anger! What should a Buddhist do?

A Buddhist should be Mindful of their anger. This means the one who practices Buddhism practices Mindfulness - the art of self-awareness and self-understanding on the Path to Buddhist Wisdom.

A Buddhist should be Mindful of the Buddha's teaching that Suffering (including Anger) is caused by Desire, Delusion and Hatred.

A Buddhist should be Mindful of the Eight Fold Path to cease suffering:

Right Thought

Reality grows in the garden of the mind. Our world is the fruit of our thoughts that sprout from the seeds of ideas. We must therefore be discerning gardeners, looking carefully at what ideas we allow to take root within the mind. We must be able to recognize which ideas and thoughts are born of desire and which carry the seeds of desire that causes our suffering.

The seeds of suffering that take root within the mind are those of greed, ill-will, hostility, denigration, dominance, envy, jealousy, hypocrisy, fraud, obstinacy, presumption, conceit, arrogance, vanity and negligence. In Buddhism, these are known as the 15 defilements, and the Buddha realized 6 methods for removing such defilements from the mind:

1. Restraining:

Restrain from what pleases the senses but bears poison.

2. Using:

Use all that we are, all that we have, all there is to cultivate peace.

3. Tolerating:

Tolerate all adversity, and never abandon our gardens to the wild.

4. Avoiding:

Avoid all that is impure and spoils the soil of the mind. Tend only to what is pure and that which nurtures the pure.

5. Destroying:

Remove the defilements by destroying them from the root.

6. Developing:

Never cease to develop our skills of peacefulness.

Right Speech

We are often judged by our words. Long after we leave this world, our words shall remain. Words can often be sharper than the blade of the sword, bringing harm to the spirit of a person which can cause wounds that are deeper and last longer than that of a dagger. Therefore, we must choose our words carefully. The Buddha realized 4 methods of speech that bring peace to our lives and the lives of those who surround us.

1. Words of Honesty:

Speaking without truth can be a means to our end and to the end of others. Therefore, honesty is always the best policy.

2. Words of Kindness:

Speaking words of kindness, we will never be the cause that divides hearts or puts brother against brother. We become peacemakers. Our words are cherished and valued and shall bring peacefulness to ourselves and to those surrounding us.

3. Words that are Nurturing:

Words that comfort rather than harm the heart, shall travel to the heart, and bring long lasting peace.

4. Words that are Worthy:

Speaking only what is worthy and valuable for the moment, our words will always be found sweet to the ears of others and shall always be considered in a peaceful manner. Words of gossip, untruth, and selfishness do not return to us with peace. The worth of our words is measured by how much they improve the silence.

Right Action

All of our lives we have been instructed to do the right thing. Often we are perplexed with what is the right thing. Ultimately, we must decide for ourselves what is right- but often our judgment is clouded by the defilements of the mind. While upon the Eight-Fold path, we must remember that our aim is to end our suffering. All we do, comes back to us in one way or another, eventually. What may be the right thing for the moment may not be the right thing for the next. Although this moment is the only one that exists, we must not fail to realize that within this moment- the past, present and future are contained. The truly right does not change from moment to moment. Look deep within your own heart, and you will know what is right.

The Golden Rule in Buddhism is: Do no harm.

The Buddha practiced the following code of conduct in his own life:

1. Respect life

2. Earn all that you have

3. Control your desire, rather than allow desire to control you.

Right Livelihood

Often when one begins practicing the ways of Peace, a time comes when lifestyle must be evaluated. In this life, we have the opportunity to liberate ourselves from the cycle of suffering and find peace. We also have the opportunity to help others break free. Does one's way of life support or hinder the ways of Peace? Only the heart knows.

Right Effort

The path is not an easy one. Our habits of suffering are strong, and deeply imprinted in our way of life. It is difficult to maneuver peacefully in a world of chaos. Many of the things that we know we must let go of are things that we have held dearly for we have fought fiercely to obtain them. Our very own self- identity may have been formed with great personal sacrifice. Discipline and diligence is key to persevering on the path. Therefore, our decision to take up the path to liberation must be firm, and executed with right effort. When we have realized the truth of suffering, and are willing to seek liberation with the same tenacity as a drowning man struggles for a breath, then right effort has been attained.

Right Mindfulness

Being mindful of the heart of matters can help us to overcome suffering with understanding. When sitting, laying or moving, being mindful of the following four frames of references are said by the Buddha to help us achieve great understanding, and can even help us unlock the secrets that are within our hearts.

1. The Body:

Paying attention to our physical being can help us direct the mind away from the distractions of the world. Focusing on our breath, our movements, our actions, our components, and on the sheer miracle of our physical existence we can arrive at calmness and clarity.

2. Feelings:

Paying attention to our external and internal feelings, observing their rise and fall, can help us realize their origination, development and decline. Understanding the nature of our feelings can help us let go and break our habits of clinging.

3. Mind:

Turning the mind upon itself, observing our thoughts, can help us realize the origination and aim of our thoughts. With this understanding, we can understand the nature of the mind and overcome our thought habits of suffering.

4. Mental Qualities:

Paying attention to our mental state of mind can help us recognize the five hindrances of our mentality (sensual desire, ill-will, laziness, anxiety and doubt). Observing their origination, development and decline, can help us realize how we can overcome them. By observing the origination, the components, the development, and the decline of things in regard to these frames of reference, we can find a deep understanding in the nature of ourselves, and to know our own hearts is to know the hearts of others.

Right Concentration

As we sail through life, the winds of desire push us toward the Ocean of Suffering. But the skillful stand firm in virtue at the helm, directing the rudder of the mind toward peace. Single-minded concentration on the path to Peace (the Eight-Fold path) is right concentration. It is picking yourself up when you stumble and continuing onward. It is recognizing why you have fallen astray. It is recognizing when you are about to fall. It is continuing upon the path without hesitation or doubt. It is never ceasing to develop our skill in the way.

In other words, the Buddhist (in response to anger) practices the Gems of Buddhism, which is to follow the Eight Fold Path to End Suffering.

Nammo Tasso Bhagawato Samma Sambuttassa

[thaibebop]

Good post Mr.F

[phibunmike]

Teenage anger is nothing to fool with. I got so mad at time when I was younger that I went in to a blind rage, one time even passed out from the rush of blood to my head. I have worked for years to throw off the family anger problem. My father's side of the family has always screamed and yelled and fought. I still don't think I am any where near where I need to be. But with a child of my own, I need to try harder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a slightly different direction - have you read De Bono's book "Water Logic". If not, don't bother, because it is an overly commercial output, and I can summarise the EXCELLENT central theme in a paragraph...

1. There is a situation you want to change;

2. You start, or consider, a course of action;

3. Ask yourself: does this action lead to my desired goal ?

(This is the "Water Logic": actions flow like water into consequences)

4. If the answer is "no', choose a different action.

For example:

1. Waitress at restaurant is unfriendly;

2. Shout at her;

3. Is she more friendly now ?

4. Alternative: say to her "you look very busy, don't worry, I am not in a hurry, serve that other table first".

Of course, it is hard to be logical and analytical when angry, but I find with practice this is helpful.