Military Service For Thai Passport Holder?

[ChangMaiSausage]

Hi not sure exactly which topic I should have posted this query under (pls move if incorrect)

My wife has just given birth to my son last week, I am a British citizen and she is Thai, we are both living (residency) in Qatar. I have applied and received his UK passport and I am now putting together the paperwork to apply for his Thai passport.

My Question is will he have to complete military service when he is older if he holds a Thai passport? the chances are that he will live outside of Thailand most of his life.

Also if anyone can give any advice when applying for a Thai passport that would be appreciated + any heads-up on problems that we might encounter when applying.

Thanks for any advice given.

DT

Edited November 18, 2007 by ChangMaiSausage

[sbk]

Well, its not that military service is compulsory but that taking part in the "lottery" for service is. . But yes, I believe its compulsory even for people overseas, you can defer it, as Paradorn has done, but avoid it all together? No, I don't think so.

There are no guarantees that in 21 years your son will even need to worry about it, so I wouldn't get too stressed out about it just yet.

And there is a thread here 2 nationalities and the army that has a good explanation from samran.

Also, will you be applying for your son's passport in your home country or in Thailand or in Qatar?

[rychrde]

Yes, a good link above.

Have in your mind exactly what you will do so your son gets out of doing military service.

Last week had an unpleasant funeral of a lad who was terminated by his fellows. On the same day another lad was happy to be back home having completed service. Don't risk it!

rych

[TerryLH]

Thai boys can avoid conscription by taking a course in high school.

I'm sure most of you have seen young men dressed in army uniforms. Girls can also take the course, but they do it because they want to, not to avoid anything.

[Mahout Angrit]

Samran is the expert and I'm sure I've seen him post on here that if your son is not on a Tabien Baan (house registration) in Thailand they wont find him so he will never be called.

You could search the 'visas for Thailand' forum where this question has come up a few times.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Thanks guys, funnily the wife has just rung me she has been to the Thai embassy (Qatar) and he has advised her to apply for his Thai passport when in Thailand next March as it would take them months to turn all the paperwork around Qatar <-> Thai<->Qatar.

Manhout - They informed her to register him at her parents address (Tabien Baan)

Anyway I'll see how it goes now has his UK passport so at least we are not restricted when we travel as a family even to Thailand for holidays.

[samran]

Thanks guys, funnily the wife has just rung me she has been to the Thai embassy (Qatar) and he has advised her to apply for his Thai passport when in Thailand next March as it would take them months to turn all the paperwork around Qatar <-> Thai<->Qatar.

Manhout - They informed her to register him at her parents address (Tabien Baan)

Anyway I'll see how it goes now has his UK passport so at least we are not restricted when we travel as a family even to Thailand for holidays.

If you are keen to keep your son off the military radar, then I wouldn't apply for the Thai passport in Thailand, as it will involve him first being put on the tabieen baan so he can get the passport, which puts him on the list of names which the sasadee (conscription officer) then chases up when your son gets to 17.

I'd apply for the PP in Qatar, regardless of what they said. Applying overseas doesn't involve going onto the Tabieen Baan, and as such keeps him out of sight of the army guys. The embassy always advises that it can take a couple of months (to stay on the safe side), but the reality is that the turnaround will be much faster. The Thai passport office from my experience is one of the fastest and most efficient government departments you will ever come accross, anywhere in the world!!

I've got my release from the military, and I applied after my 30th birthday, and only after I had my name put on the tabien baan after 30. There was a small fine involved (100 baht) which was paid at the police station, after which my release papers were processed, and which was done by the book. (I will say though, that to facilitate the process expoditiously, all matters were discussed over a fine lunch and drinks for the entire staff of 6 at the Sasadee office, and a fax machine was donated to the office so that my papers could be processed in one trip/afternoon rather than over 3 weeks).

[HarryHacker]

Bought a smile to me, my now ex-wife and step son went to live in England when he was a year or so old and one of the many concerns my wife had as he was growing up was the fact that he would have to go into the military lottery when he was of age. One main concern was the fact that he had lost all identity to Thailand and was fully British in his mind and had no feelings for Thailand or indeed his roots.

Anyway, cut a long story sideways, he is now 25 and serving in the British Army so as much as we worry about them, there is always a curve ball coming.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Hi Sanran,

Regarding your response to my query about registration of my new born son to ensure he gains a Thai passport and does not show on the Tabieen Baan.

Could you advise, I've just spoken to the wife again after reading your response, she is adamant that to enable him to have a Thai passport he must be registered at Tabieen Baan also he must have a Thai birth certificate. I cannot understand why he requires a Thai birth certificate he does not have an English birth certificate only the one issued by the Qatari Health Service.

The Thai emabssy told her that he must have a Thai Birth Certifcate and be registed at the Tabieen Baan before they can issue a passport?

It seems I'm in a mine field of Thai logic and rules that shall be obeyed

Edited November 20, 2007 by ChangMaiSausage

[samran]

To be honest, I'm not sure what the Thai embassy in Qatar is requiring of you, but the way it works in London and Canberra is that all that is needed to get a Thai passport is a Thai Birth Certificate. The logic being of course, that if you aren't living in Thailand (and especially if you weren't born in LOS), there is no way you can get Tabieen Baan. Technically, the tabieen baan is where you live. If you ain't living there, you really aren't supposed to be on it! It is a very common way to issue Thai passports to Thai children born overseas...

I applied for and got at least 3 Thai passports through the embassy in Canberra between 1990 and 2004 not being on any tabieen baan. My Thai BC (issued by the embassy in Australia) was sufficient. I was born in Australia.

I only got my name put on the tabieen baan when I was sure that the conscription guys legally couldn't touch me, and when me and my wife decided to move to Thailand for work.

You wife is correct though to the extent that a being on a tabieen baan IS necessary if applying in Thailand. The reason is that when you apply for a Thai passport in LOS, they basically pull all your data from the central tabieen baan database, and use that to populate the passport template.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Just spoke to the Qatar Thai embassy and sensed they are not 100% sure if my son would be registered on the tabieen baan if I applied for his passport in Qatar Thai embassy??

I explained to him that I found it difficult to understand how my son can be registered on the T/baan if he does not live in Thailand and he was not born in Thailand? Again he recommended that we register the birth in Thailand next time we visit.

I personnaly want to apply for the passport in Qatar but the wife thinks better....... my son can blame his mother when he's called up for military service!

[samran]

Just spoke to the Qatar Thai embassy and sensed they are not 100% sure if my son would be registered on the tabieen baan if I applied for his passport in Qatar Thai embassy??

I explained to him that I found it difficult to understand how my son can be registered on the T/baan if he does not live in Thailand and he was not born in Thailand? Again he recommended that we register the birth in Thailand next time we visit.

I personnaly want to apply for the passport in Qatar but the wife thinks better....... my son can blame his mother when he's called up for military service!

one hand not knowing what the other is doing! Did you ask them how a Thai child who does not have another nationality (ie like your son) who was born in Qatar was supposed to get a passport to a) leave Qatar and b') re-enter Thailand, or is he supposed to magically re-appear in Thailand?!?!

Just to let you know, applying for a Tabieen baan in Thailand requires that you show:

1) the Thai birth certificate for a child born outside of Thailand. As the BC's are different for those born in and outside of the kingdom, he is going to need a Thai BC issued by the embassy in Qatar anyway! A child born outside of Thailand CAN NOT have a BC issued in Thailand.

2) The Thai passport showing when the child re-entered Thailand. They need to see the date of entry into Thailand. How is he going to to get on the tabieen baan if he hasn't entered Thailand as a Thai citizen??

Simply applying for a passport will not enter him at the Tabieen Baan, this must be done at the Ampur in person.

My advice is, push for them to issue you at least with the Thai BC. When there, see if they'll do the passport (sans Tabieen Bann). As I've said, this is fairly common in say, London, so get them to check with a more 'experienced' embassy to tell them how to do their job.

It is all very well to be nice and polite in Thailand and with the Thai burecracy, but sometimes you must INSIST, INSIST, INSIST!

All the best!

[ChangMaiSausage]

Thanks Samran geat info,

I will go to the embassy early next week to dicsuss in detail, I am going to ask them to process his passport, it seems easier than trying to do it whilst in Thailand. Will also ask them to provide a Thai Birth Certificate.

DT

[Boo]

we applied for my sons thai passport & birth certificate in london 4 weeks ago & received both through a week ago. No where was he required to be on any tabien baan & my thai husband was not required to produce his either. They took copies of both our passports & my husbands id card as well as my sons UK birth certificate but there is no requirement for him to be on the tabien baan.

But for the record it has been known you can buy your way out of the army as happened to someone I know who forgot to go home for the lottery & later (6years) paid 7k baht to be removed from the list. I am not stating this is the correct way to get out of it but just passing on first hand what I was told he did.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Did they not ask for your marriage certificate?

[maprao]

My son was born in the Middle East. He is a dual national. I took his local birth certificate (Saudi translated to English) to the Thai embassy. They issued him with a Thai Birth Certificate. Soon after that the Thai passport was issued. Although it had to be done by the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Thailand. All very easy indeed. The embassy was very helpful.

My advice is do not wait until you are in Thailand. Do it in Qatar.

Normally he enters Thailand on his Thai passport. Once he went on his farang one got stamp at the airport and stayed 3 months. There is no overstay problem with infants!

I would not worry about military service just yet. It is a long way away for both our sons.

In answer to the other question we had to show our marraige certificate.

Edited November 22, 2007 by maprao

[ukjackthai]

And then theres my mum saying im exempt because i dont have a Thai ID card...

Great . Im 18 with both passports, when should i get the call?

[ZukiSuzuki]

A thread dedicated to helping luuk krung draft dodge.

Integration at it's finest

[ChangMaiSausage]

My son was born in the Middle East. He is a dual national. I took his local birth certificate (Saudi translated to English) to the Thai embassy. They issued him with a Thai Birth Certificate. Soon after that the Thai passport was issued. Although it had to be done by the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Thailand. All very easy indeed. The embassy was very helpful.

My advice is do not wait until you are in Thailand. Do it in Qatar.

Normally he enters Thailand on his Thai passport. Once he went on his farang one got stamp at the airport and stayed 3 months. There is no overstay problem with infants!

I would not worry about military service just yet. It is a long way away for both our sons.

In answer to the other question we had to show our marraige certificate.

Thanks Maprao could you confirm

So.... sorry to drag this on paperwork required to complete application for Thai passport when applying overseas

Passports Mother and Father

Birth Certificate translated into Thai

Mothers Thai ID Card

Marriage Certificate

Dave

[maprao]

My son was born in the Middle East. He is a dual national. I took his local birth certificate (Saudi translated to English) to the Thai embassy. They issued him with a Thai Birth Certificate. Soon after that the Thai passport was issued. Although it had to be done by the Ministry of Foreign affairs in Thailand. All very easy indeed. The embassy was very helpful.

My advice is do not wait until you are in Thailand. Do it in Qatar.

Normally he enters Thailand on his Thai passport. Once he went on his farang one got stamp at the airport and stayed 3 months. There is no overstay problem with infants!

I would not worry about military service just yet. It is a long way away for both our sons.

In answer to the other question we had to show our marraige certificate.

Thanks Maprao could you confirm

So.... sorry to drag this on paperwork required to complete application for Thai passport when applying overseas

Passports Mother and Father

Birth Certificate translated into Thai

Mothers Thai ID Card

Marriage Certificate

Dave

Dave

Your Passport and a copy

Your wife's Passport and a copy

Marriage Certificate and a copy both sides.

Copy of Wife' Thai ID card signed and original to show embassy

Local Birth Certificate in your case the one you got when your son was born in Qatar. Officially translated into English. Try and keep the UK one out of the process. This was not a problem because I am dual national and neither of my embassies wanted to issue him a birth certificate in anycase. (I did eventuall get one).

Your wife's family papers (tabien ban) he does not have to be on it just your wife. We used a copy faxed to us from Thailand by her sister.

The embassy will the issue a THAI Birth Certificate there and then.

Fill out the passport application at the embassy. It is done electronically as is the picture for the passport. (and a toe print believe it or not for the passport signature!). They then send it off to Bangkok and when the passport issued by the ministry of foreign affaires in Bangkok they send it back to the embassy you pick it up from the Thai embassy in Qatar.

Best of luck and smile alot. There are not many Thais in Saudi so they were glad to help. The farang noi got the "red carpet treatment" unlike my embassy but that is a story for another day......

I will also add that ensuring you get him a Thai passport could help you in the future when you decide to settle in Thailand. Again I will not enter into that here as it is off topic. PM if you want to know...

Maprao

Edited November 22, 2007 by maprao

[Boo]

sorry, yes forgot to add our marraige cert.

[samran]

And then theres my mum saying im exempt because i dont have a Thai ID card...

Great . Im 18 with both passports, when should i get the call?

you aren't exempt yet, but if you don't live in Thailand with an ID card and have your name on the tabieen baan until you are 30, then you technically will never be called up, and hence you will have nothing to dodge. The fact that you live overseas is a good reason why you can't turn up for the annual lottery.

You can still travel back and forth to Thailand using your Thai PP, no worries.

[ukjackthai]

And then theres my mum saying im exempt because i dont have a Thai ID card...

Great . Im 18 with both passports, when should i get the call?

you aren't exempt yet, but if you don't live in Thailand with an ID card and have your name on the tabieen baan until you are 30, then you technically will never be called up, and hence you will have nothing to dodge. The fact that you live overseas is a good reason why you can't turn up for the annual lottery.

You can still travel back and forth to Thailand using your Thai PP, no worries.

Thanks for your reply. I just have 1 more question.

I do study and work in Thailand... I do not have a Thai ID card but have a Thai passport [but I entered Thailand on my British passport and have to do that 90 day thing, this was for educational purposes - something to do with "Your degree will be worth more if you enroll into university with your British passport"] and my name is listed on the tabieen baan.

What's my situation now please?

There'll be no bribes or Immigrating to the EU on my behalf, however, I'd be very reluctant to do the service because, amongst other things, when I was much younger my parents told me of the 6 month hassle it took just to get me a Thai birth certificate in London. IMO it will be unfair as I have only spent 1/18th of my life in Thailand and get called up to do the service and then some kid from some stuck up Thai family doesn't Oh, and yeah, that little factor called "The fear of death" may be another reason for my reluctancy. lol.

Any input appreciated.

Jack.

Edited November 23, 2007 by ukjackthai

[samran]

here are the basic rules

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=25400

I've also talked about options here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1535520

Have you received any notification yet from the powers that be? How long will you be in Thailand for? Are you going to go back to the UK any time soon.

Given that you are in higher education now, you can defer the draft, but you have to apply for the deferal.

Will you be in Thailand next April (not being able to turn up for valid reasons is an excuse....see the rules).

At this point, I am not going to be much help I'm afraid. As I said, I didn't (intentionally) put my name down on the the Tabieen Baan till I was 30. But if you haven't received anything, I'd lay low as if you are going back to the UK, it will be as if you were never here.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Still no Thai passport does anyone know where I can print off a statement that says I can apply for my sons Thai passport whilst overseas? + the requirements if available so that I can take them to the Qatar Thai Embassy.

The embassy has rung the Amphur to request a ID number to process the passport but the Amphur wants my wife to go to Thailand to discuss?? I've told them he does not need to be registered on the Tabieen Bann as he was born out of Thailand and does not live there. Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HELP I'm going crazy with the whole issue