Water Pump Installation

[penzman]

We don`t have a water pump installed at the new house yet as only 20% of the residents in this new project have moved in and there is reasonably good water pressure up to now and I`m more preoccupied with other projects around the house for now. Problem is I need to level the land around the house and the water main and other lines were buried from between above ground to 4 inches deep only! I`ve dug a deeper trench for the water main to be at least a foot deep. Before burying it I`d like to set up the pipes properly for when it`s time to install the pump. behind the house where the water main goes, coming from the street in front. We also have an underground water cistern, no idea how many litres or gallons but it`s the about the size of a Hyunday accent ,

The water main does feed the cistern as water flows in when I lower the float.

The pipe coming from the bottom of the cistern leads to nowhere and pokes out of the ground on the side of the house alongside the water main.

Am I right in simply joining both pipes together somewhere around the one poking out of the ground and installing a one-way flow valve somewhere between the water main and cistern?

The pump would be installed where I want to join both pipes as it is not close to a bedroom window and would keep the noise down also for other rooms.

I`ll join a drawing, may clarify what need to be done.

I have some plumbing experience but never installed a water pump...

Trying to avoid another "ìmprovised tradesman" from installing something here again, too many nightmares like a toilet not sitting on top of the drain but a concrete chute that leads to it!, electrician installed a water heater that doesn't heat water, a washroom that took over 2 months to build and had 2 fence and house wall paintjobs ruined at back and side of the house from splattered concrete, light switches all mixed up, one single 90 degree corner in the whole house, and on and on.

Penzman

[lopburi3]

You should pump from the cistern (in Bangkok we have water tanks above ground so assume you are not here). You should never pump directly from the feed line as that can cause low feed pressure and bring ground water into any leaks of main water line.

If I understand water main line is connected directly to house now (and somehow also getting into cistern) so you need to cut that and attach the output of pump on pipe going into house and valve/T to allows water to flow as now in case of power/pump or cistern outage. You will have to make sure that cistern is on the street side supply of this cut so that it gets water directly from mains.

There is no real need to bury water line here as this is not a frost zone.

Be sure you have electric line available. Noise as you know is an issue. If you have two floors a more expensive pump may be in order to provide more pressure.

[Limbo]

Mr. Penzman, you are a horrible person to ask such a horrible question.

Sleepness nights come into my memory. At the moment it is only the pressure regulated on/of thing which bothers me. A waterpump can destroy your nervsystem in many ways and I learned about some of them.

Ok, the water of the tessaban goes into your cistern (didn't know that word).

Some air-ball-thing closes it when the cistern is full. Probably you have a main tap inbetween and that's good. Keep it that way.

The pump pumps (that's where pumps are for) your water into the house.

One floor a small pump, two floors 150 Watt at least. It pumps the water from your

buried Hyundai into your shower, your kitchen, your toilets. Learn to love the sound of a well-functioning pump. Install a tap between the toilet-paper-replacing-hand-shower, so that you especially downstairs can regulate the water-power to avoid getting Louis Armstrong cheeks.

When the water level in the Hyunday sinks, the air-ball-regulated tap lets in new (I almost said fresh water) water.

Sometimes, middel of the night or the day, the waterpressure of the tessaban is strong enough to wash the shampoo out of your remaining hair. At these moment you don't need the pump and the pump doesn't need you either.

Sometimes you have a fai-dab and the pump takes a rest.

I (but it could be anybody else) have one pipe going straight from the tessaban to the cistern (a Toyata Corona) and another straight into the house. A one-way-closing thing (no idea how you call it) prevents that the pump pumps water into the tessaban pipes if its pressure is low. So my pump pumps only when I cannot get the shampoo out of my remaining hair with the pressure of the tessaban.

I suppose everything is perfectly clear now. What was your question again?

[terry74]

If needed install a small pumpset with a built in receiver Hydropneumatic set on top, the smallest you can find, installing a pumpset will only increase the electircal bill

this type of pumpset has a pressure switch that will switch off and on if the pressure in the line drops

However as mention , do not install the pumpset at the mains , the pumpset must be installed after the Cistern or tank, as this will affect the pressure of the main line and alos affect the neighbours

If the pressure drops only thne the pumpset will cut in , this type of pumpset is readily available, however get the smallest you cna find, depends on the house how many storeysand pump head also

How high is from the ground to the next floor

Hope this helps

[penzman]

Still haven't done anything about a pump yet as we do have reasonable pressure for now and too busy with other things around the house.

Here is a drawing of the actual pipe system.

[Limbo]

I have no idea how these things are called:

a piece of metal pipe with a lock in it which only can open in one direction and which blocks the pipe if the pressure comes from the opposite side. They cost about 150 Baht.

You have to install it after the 'branch' which goes to the cistern.

This to avoid that you unwillingly pump the content of your cistern into the tessaban pipes again when the tessaban has a low pressure.

Don't be stubborn Penzman and do what I tell you!!!

[Head Snake]

I don't know what the ###### you guys are talking about (cistern and tessaban) but I'm laughing.

Good luck Penzman.

My gf wants to get aircon and water heater installed in her house. i'm thinking I'll just pay some guy to do it.

[ProThaiExpat]

I contacted a large appliance store that has an established repair and installation department and told them to do it. They installed the tank and all the piptes, the pump and the back flow valve. I had the concrete pad for the tank installed by builders staff.

They have come back a few times to answer service calls.

They also installed by aircon and come back every three months to service them, ie. clean them, according to the mitusbishi original warranty.

They are far from brain surgeons, but adequate on equipment like pumps and aircon.

When it came to installing my side-by-side refrigerator with water and ice in the door, they were clueless. Actually triied to install the fridge with PVC.

Had the "copper" hot water line man come out to install copper per western install methods. He is also appliance repair man. He connectged it with flexi-cable, mostly plastic with metal connections, looks a lot like toilet tank connector. Works great now.

[Ajarn]

When I bought my tank and pump, the company installed everything for free. The price was the same as buying myself, but this way, I just pick up the phone if there's a problem. Two year guarantee on everything except the pump (six months) Same with aircons and water heaters- or any other appliance- I buy them, and installation is free. But you won't get that kind of service from the Mega-stores, that's for sure.

[astral]

If you have a regular flow of water into your underground tank (cistern is the right word) then you are lucky.

We have a 2000litre tank to cope with the times when the mains water does not flow.

Without a pump just how does the water get to the taps in the house?

It is an essential part of Thai household plumbing.

You need to work out how many taps will be open at the same time

to get the necessary capacity for the pump

[Ajarn]

If you have a regular flow of water into your underground tank (cistern is the right word) then you are lucky.

We have a 2000litre tank to cope with the times when the mains water does not flow.

Without a pump just how does the water get to the taps in the house?

It is an essential part of Thai household plumbing.

You need to work out how many taps will be open at the same time

to get the necessary capacity for the pump

If it was an essential part of Thai household plumbing, then most would have pumps. Fact is, most don't. Instead they rely on the city water with it's up/down pressures and supply. In our area, that mostly works well enough

Most of these old cisterns were built because the house had no plumbing, or before the water mains arrived near enough to tap into. We have a concrete cistern, but I sure wouldn't want to use any water that had been in it. I feel far safer with our stainless steel storage tank that holds 1250 litres... About a two-day water supply for when the tessabaan cuts the water...Unfortunately, that's usually when we realise that the water has been off for a couple of days..

[astral]

Ajarn

Where is your tank?

How do you get pressure to the taps?

Unless the tank is 30ft off the ground, surely you must be using a pump somewhere?

[lopburi3]

I don't know what the ###### you guys are talking about (cistern and tessaban) but I'm laughing.

Good luck Penzman.

My gf wants to get aircon and water heater installed in her house. i'm thinking I'll just pay some guy to do it.

Watch closely when they install the water heater as it must have a ground wire attached and run to a good ground for you to be safe. The GFI on the unit itself could fail or you could come in contact with live wire before the wire goes through it. Don't take a chance.

[penzman]

Be very careful with the water heater installation. An "electrician" installed ours only to realise a few minutes after he'd left that it did not work at all. The manuals are usually easy to understand and help you check if the installation was done properly.He also actually broke one of the pins holding the shower cover (what's new...)

After removing a ceramic tile in the washroom, I found out that electric wiring was indeed running through plastic pipes but when they made 90 degree corners... they did not bother using an elbow... leaving the wiring exposed.

You really have to inspect EVERYTHING as work progresses.

I have a lot of respect for these construction workers, working hard, low wages, the heat... but I have yet to see one who can do a job or installation perfectly. I had to redo or repair many things in here, clean up after their messes etc.

Our cistern is new, made of concrete. You must empty it and clean it properly before use, you can add a bit of water and lower a small pump at the bottom to remove the sludge. Afterward you have to pour a bit of bleach in it every 3-4 months (google with cistern + bleach, you'll get many recipes).

[penzman]

I have no idea how these things are called:

a piece of metal pipe with a lock in it which only can open in one direction and which blocks the pipe if the pressure comes from the opposite side. They cost about 150 Baht.

You have to install it after the 'branch' which goes to the cistern.

This to avoid that you unwillingly pump the content of your cistern into the tessaban pipes again when the tessaban has a low pressure.

Don't be stubborn Penzman and do what I tell you!!!

That is a "one way flow valve"

[penzman]

Forgot to mention...

If you install a water heater, you're most likely to lose lots of pressure from the shower head as the heater regulates the water flow in order to have enough time to heat up the water.

I never use it and am looking for parts to bypass the water heater, no luck yet.

[Ajarn]

Ajarn

Where is your tank?

How do you get pressure to the taps?

Unless the tank is 30ft off the ground, surely you must be using a pump somewhere?

Sure, I have a pump with an auto-pressure system, set to a fairly low pressure. I'm not a plumber, but it's the same setup I've seen most places, with the tank on the ground, with a pump using water from the outside main.

As for pressure, It's usually good enough during the day (But my house is only one floor...), and can be quite a bit stronger at night. My pump maintains the pressure if it falls below the pressure from the outside main, as I understand it. If the main pressure is more than than the pump, the pump doesn't go on...I'm pretty sure

Before I moved in, they didn't have a pump, they used the water direct from the main. I don't really need it at all. I just installed it for a further guarantee that I'll have water when I want it. Thinking about doing someting similar to guarantee my air-con 24/7, too

[NedKelly]

The system at my place is as follows: the mains water comes in from the soi via a blue 20mm pipe which feeds straight into a tank sitting on top of the ground....my place is surrounded by concrete so everything is on a slab......anyway, this bluse pvc pipe follows the walla round to the back of the hosue and into the tank at the top. then next to the tank sits the pump. The water flows into the pump and pushed into the house ( 2 levels)

I dont like this system as every time I turn on the tap the pump kicks in.......I think it limits the life of the pump.

Obviously if you could pump water into a tank in the roof and use gravity for pressure. That way the pump would only have to work to fill the tank when it was getting low. the pump surely would last longer this way.

Its a pain in the butt if you shower late at night after a few beers out on the town ..........it is so quiet late at night and the houses are spitting distance from each other so you can hear everything.

[francois]

hi'

when we were living in esaan, we had to set up a water-pump, this was done quite easily,

dig 7mtrs deep, and get the water there, filtered and this was it, just had to be careful

after power-off (which happen often) that the pump was still "filled up", meaning no air in the water circuit.

once in Chiang Mai, we did not need this, even with a water heater in the shower-room,

the restaurant next to our house had a tank and a water pump, the tank was set about 5mtrs from the ground, and the pump was not this big, soemthing like a 150 or 200W.

in esaan we had a 200W, and it was, and still working well.

all this had been done with some help from neighbours ... easy and fast as they are used to do it

it seems to me that put the water tank a bit high is a better way.

don't forget the filter, just to get clear water, doesn't mean that you can drink it, but clean enough for cooking.

cheers

francois

[lopburi3]

Sure, I have a pump with an auto-pressure system, set to a fairly low pressure. I'm not a plumber, but it's the same setup I've seen most places, with the tank on the ground, with a pump using water from the outside main.

As for pressure, It's usually good enough during the day (But my house is only one floor...), and can be quite a bit stronger at night. My pump maintains the pressure if it falls below the pressure from the outside main, as I understand it. If the main pressure is more than than the pump, the pump doesn't go on...I'm pretty sure 

Before I moved in, they didn't have a pump, they used the water direct from the main. I don't really need it at all. I just installed it for a further guarantee that I'll have water when I want it. Thinking about doing someting similar to guarantee my air-con 24/7, too 

This is exactly what should not be used as if you and folks near you all draw water at the same time the water main can go to negative pressure and invite dirty ground water into any leaks and into your home. You should always pump from a storage tank of some kind rather than directly from mains. That also gives you water when the mains goes dry for maintenance or whatever and helps to get rid of chlorine as the water has a chance to stand before being used.

[lopburi3]

Forgot to mention...

If you install a water heater, you're most likely to lose lots of pressure from the shower head as the heater regulates the water flow in order to have enough time to heat up the water.

I never use it and am looking for parts to bypass the water heater, no luck yet.

Below heater remove the short feed hose and install a 'T' fitting. From one side attach the heater feed hose and on other side install a feed through valve and attach new shower hose. Use that feed through value to control your non heated water/shower hose. Should be able to find parts in any hardware store or even Tesco Lotus. Only thing extra is pipe thread tape. Be sure the 'T' fittings mate with your wall pipe or buy adapter.

[Ajarn]

Sure, I have a pump with an auto-pressure system, set to a fairly low pressure. I'm not a plumber, but it's the same setup I've seen most places, with the tank on the ground, with a pump using water from the outside main.

As for pressure, It's usually good enough during the day (But my house is only one floor...), and can be quite a bit stronger at night. My pump maintains the pressure if it falls below the pressure from the outside main, as I understand it. If the main pressure is more than than the pump, the pump doesn't go on...I'm pretty sure 

Before I moved in, they didn't have a pump, they used the water direct from the main. I don't really need it at all. I just installed it for a further guarantee that I'll have water when I want it. Thinking about doing someting similar to guarantee my air-con 24/7, too 

This is exactly what should not be used as if you and folks near you all draw water at the same time the water main can go to negative pressure and invite dirty ground water into any leaks and into your home. You should always pump from a storage tank of some kind rather than directly from mains. That also gives you water when the mains goes dry for maintenance or whatever and helps to get rid of chlorine as the water has a chance to stand before being used.

lopburi3, maybe I'm not explaining things correctly, but I think I am drawing from my tank, not directly off the main.

[lopburi3]

Sure, I have a pump with an auto-pressure system, set to a fairly low pressure. I'm not a plumber, but it's the same setup I've seen most places, with the tank on the ground, with a pump using water from the outside main.

As for pressure, It's usually good enough during the day (But my house is only one floor...), and can be quite a bit stronger at night. My pump maintains the pressure if it falls below the pressure from the outside main, as I understand it. If the main pressure is more than than the pump, the pump doesn't go on...I'm pretty sure 

Before I moved in, they didn't have a pump, they used the water direct from the main. I don't really need it at all. I just installed it for a further guarantee that I'll have water when I want it. Thinking about doing someting similar to guarantee my air-con 24/7, too 

This is exactly what should not be used as if you and folks near you all draw water at the same time the water main can go to negative pressure and invite dirty ground water into any leaks and into your home. You should always pump from a storage tank of some kind rather than directly from mains. That also gives you water when the mains goes dry for maintenance or whatever and helps to get rid of chlorine as the water has a chance to stand before being used.

lopburi3, maybe I'm not explaining things correctly, but I think I am drawing from my tank, not directly off the main.

My old eyes only noticed the "with a pump using water from the outside main". If you have the mains filling a tank and then pump from the tank no problem. Sorry.

[Ajarn]

lopburi3, still a good point to make. I've wondered in the past about how well that might work, and now I know better...Cheers

[penzman]

Great advice on here, thanks.

Problem is now that I've been told that a pump that can sense how much pressure is coming from the water main does not exist.

4 or 5 employees at the hardware store could not seem the grasp the concept of using water main's pressure and not using the pump and cistern's water when there is sufficient pressure from the main.

Why use water from the tank to fill a bucket when the main will instantly fill the cistern with the equal amount of water... Waste of electricity.

What is the brand name of your adjustable/pressure sensing water pumps?

Cheers,

Penzman

[dugdig]

How do you post a picture. I've downloaded water_feed_001.jpg and have altered it and want to post it to you. It shows what I'm reasonably sure is the simplest effective solution to your problem. Maybe I can describe it to you.

1. Connect the cistern out pipe to the main pipe at the closest convenient place. This makes a loop going out the cistern out pipe into the main then backwards in the main to the "t" and then forward in the branch of the main back into the cistern.

2. Put the pump on the cistern out pipe.

3. Put a one way flow valve on the main pipe between where it branches to the cistern and where the cistern out pipe connects to the main.

I think that this is all you need....but remember that you only want the pump to run when the main pressure drops to an unacceptably low level so this means that the pump TURN ON pressure should be lower than the normal operating pressure of the main. This way the pump will not turn on normally. When the pressure in the main drops below the pump TURN ON pressure then the pump turns on. The best thing would be to measure the main's pressure and determine what will be the pressure you want for the pump to kick in. The pump unit I have does not have adjustable pressure points but I guess maybe some do...I don't know.

Even if you understand this or don't need it I would still like to know how to post a picture.

Thanx,

Dugdig

[penzman]

Hi Dugdig.

I forgot to mention that I've already installed a flow valve.

Yes, I understand that the pump would be working and using electricity unecessarily when there is already decent pressure coming from the main. Trying to explain that at the hardware store drew 5 employees! One of them agreed after a while.

There must be millions of pumps wasting electricity out there...

A picture needs to be stored on a server somewhere in order to post it on here. You could use TV's picture gallery

You can also email it to me at [email protected].

Cheers,

Penzman

[astral]

On the eastern seaboard the mains water pressure cannot be relied upon,

so a pump is a fact of life.

Pump water out the tank and let the tank fill naturally from the mains.

You can put in a bypass so you can feed the house directly, if the pump, or the

electricity fails!!

It is a good idea to have a Safety Cut breaker in the mains input, then you have

less need for earth wires.

[penzman]

I'z done it!

I've redone the existing plumbing between the main and the pump.

The main feeds both the house and the tank. I ve installed a flow valve after the main. I ve also installed a flow valve between the pump and the tank even though the pump does have a built-in flow valve.

I've also installed a switch for the pump right outside the washroom,next to the water heater's switch, as we only need pressure for the shower. It also saves electricity as it prevents the pump from working when you're only washing your hands or flushing the toilet.

I'll add a diagram to show exactly how I've connected the whole thing.

[Jai Dee]

How is the water pressure?

I'd like to see that diagram penzman.

I've been watching this thread with interest since it started.

I will be building a new house soon and am keen to draw from other TV members experience.