Any Apple Mac Users Here

[hotnutts]

I am thinking about getting an Apple Mac, and just wanted to get some thoughts from any Apple Mac Fans about this..

The .... OpenMac Computer

The highly extensible OpenMac is a configuration of PC hardware capable of running unmodified OS X Leopard kernels. If you purchase Leopard with your OpenMac we will not only include the actual Leopard retail package with genuine installation disc, but we also include a Psystar restore disc for your OpenMac and we will preinstall Leopard for free so you can begin to use your computer right out of the box.

Base Configuration

* 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Processor

* 2GB of DDR2 667 memory

* Integrated Intel GMA 950 Graphics

* 20x DVD+/-R SATA drive that is Lightscribe-capable

* 4 rear USB Ports

Price per Unit (piece): $399.99

its at ...

http://www.psystar.com/index.php?&page...t&Itemid=72

your comments much appreceated...

[Drewcifer]

I am thinking about getting an Apple Mac, and just wanted to get some thoughts from any Apple Mac Fans about this..

The .... OpenMac Computer

The highly extensible OpenMac is a configuration of PC hardware capable of running unmodified OS X Leopard kernels. If you purchase Leopard with your OpenMac we will not only include the actual Leopard retail package with genuine installation disc, but we also include a Psystar restore disc for your OpenMac and we will preinstall Leopard for free so you can begin to use your computer right out of the box.

Base Configuration

* 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Processor

* 2GB of DDR2 667 memory

* Integrated Intel GMA 950 Graphics

* 20x DVD+/-R SATA drive that is Lightscribe-capable

* 4 rear USB Ports

Price per Unit (piece): $399.99

its at ...

http://www.psystar.com/index.php?&page...t&Itemid=72

your comments much appreceated...

I'm a mac user and I've used OS X on standard intel platforms, but I don't think I'd touch this. I think this company is just asking to be sued by Apple (it's a violation of the terms of use agreement, if I'm not mistaken).

[slackula]

I'm a mac user and I've used OS X on standard intel platforms, but I don't think I'd touch this. I think this company is just asking to be sued by Apple (it's a violation of the terms of use agreement, if I'm not mistaken).

Agreed, the EULA in Leopard says something about only being legal to install on Apple branded hardware.

Legalities aside, there is plenty of info out there on how to get OS X installed on a regular PC or laptop, especially Thinkpads, but it seems like a lot of hassle.

[unomi]

I am thinking about getting an Apple Mac, and just wanted to get some thoughts from any Apple Mac Fans about this..

The .... OpenMac Computer

The highly extensible OpenMac is a configuration of PC hardware capable of running unmodified OS X Leopard kernels. If you purchase Leopard with your OpenMac we will not only include the actual Leopard retail package with genuine installation disc, but we also include a Psystar restore disc for your OpenMac and we will preinstall Leopard for free so you can begin to use your computer right out of the box.

Base Configuration

* 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Processor

* 2GB of DDR2 667 memory

* Integrated Intel GMA 950 Graphics

* 20x DVD+/-R SATA drive that is Lightscribe-capable

* 4 rear USB Ports

Price per Unit (piece): $399.99

its at ...

http://www.psystar.com/index.php?&page...t&Itemid=72

your comments much appreceated...

I'm a mac user and I've used OS X on standard intel platforms, but I don't think I'd touch this. I think this company is just asking to be sued by Apple (it's a violation of the terms of use agreement, if I'm not mistaken).

well, the osX kernel is basically just a modified FreeBSD kernel. There is no real reason why it shouldnt work, that said, Mac hardware is pretty spiffy: http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1011

[nidge]

True or not i love OS X and i love my MacBook Pro. I wouldn't want to run OS X on a non apple computer however cheap it was.

Nidge.

[dave_boo]

If you have to ask if it's too good to be true, the answer is no.

[hotnutts]

Mac Clone Maker Psystar Vows To Challenge Apple EULA

A Miami-based vendor that has ported Apple's Leopard operating system to generic PC hardware says Apple's restrictive licensing terms run counter to antitrust laws -- and it's vowing to fight.

Psystar's OpenMac clone is priced at about $399 -- less than one-fifth of what a similar, Apple-branded system sells for. It also represents a direct violation of Apple's end-user license agreement, which forbids third-party installations of Leopard.

But Psystar said Monday that the company believes Apple's terms violate U.S. monopoly laws. "What if Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT) said you could only install Windows on Dell (Dell) computers?" said a Psystar employee.

The employee, who would only identify himself as Robert, said Apple grossly overcharges for the hardware on which its operating systems, including Leopard, come preinstalled. "They're charging an 80% markup on hardware," Robert said in a brief phone interview.

He also said Psystar believes Apple's prohibition against third-party installations might not hold up in court: "What if Honda said that, after you buy their car, you could only drive it on the roads they said you could?"

Robert said Psystar will continue to sell the OpenMac system, despite the fact that it appears to violate Apple's EULA. "We're not breaking any laws," he insisted.

OpenMac features Leopard preinstalled atop a 2.2-GHz Intel (NSDQ: INTC) Core Duo processor with an integrated Intel 950 graphics chip, 2 GB of DDR system memory, and a 250-GB storage drive. It also offers 4 USB ports and a 20x DVD+/-R drive.

The legal questions do not appear to be stopping Mac fans from attempting to check out the clone. Psystar's Web site appeared to have crashed for a time Monday following news coverage of its OpenMac product.

Can it be true .... YES, YES , YES

[unomi]

Can it be true .... YES, YES , YES

But the question remains, why?

The openMac is probably not a perfect copy of a genuine Mac. It would in all likelihood be quite a bit slower than a 'real' mac. In theory I can install IRIX on my pc, but that wouldnt magically turn it into a SGI powerhorse.

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...37&from=rss

has more

[bendix]

Running OS X in any hardware other than an Apple would be akin to putting a Patek Philippe watch mechanism inside a Swatch case.

[unomi]

Running OS X in any hardware other than an Apple would be akin to putting a Patek Philippe watch mechanism inside a Swatch case.

Or the other way around

[nikster]

It's just asking for trouble. Even if the EULA is successfully challenged, there are a hundred things Apple can do to make new versions not work on these.

So if you are looking to save money AND you do not love constant tinkering with your hardware - forget about it. The amount of work you will have to do to keep up with Apple OS updates makes this absolutely not worth it.

The employee, who would only identify himself as Robert, said Apple grossly overcharges for the hardware on which its operating systems, including Leopard, come preinstalled. "They're charging an 80% markup on hardware," Robert said in a brief phone interview

A-hahahahaha. Yeah right. Snake oil salesmen, no less.

Apple machines are very closely priced to Windows machines - if you are "lucky" you'll find maybe a $100 markup for the same thing as PC. Last time we had a loooooong discussion on this and I actually pulled the sales prices of Acers (one of the cheapest PC manufacturers) vs. Apple for 1:1 the same hardware, and it turned out the Apple markup was close to zero. Please look up the thread I have no intention of looking these up again. Or do it yourself.

The only reason people tend to believe this is that they compare totally different systems, e.g. the cheapest available PC config with crap processor, crap display, etc, to a Mac. Apple doesn't make any low cost systems - that's the niche this clone maker wants to fill. Which is fair enough, but claims like the above make me think they are just full of BS.

[hotnutts]

Psystar said Monday that the company believes Apple’s terms violate U.S. monopoly laws. “What if Microsoft said you could only install Windows on Dell computers?” said a Psystar employee.

The concept of an “open” PC where users are free to install onto it whatever OS they want is a great idea, and to be honest if users buy an Psystar OpenMac system and install Leopard onto it themselves, I seriously doubt that even Apple would bother chasing up owners to tell them that their install of OS X violates the EULA. What’s far more likely to happen is that Apple takes the same approach as with the iPhone and release updates that would trash these installations.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1685&tag=nl.rSINGLE

[dave_boo]

There's no way in hel_l that Apple has a monopoly. And that's the first problem with that guy stating that Apple is violating the United State's Anti-Trust laws.

While I think that Apple is wrong for making the EULA read that you can not install OSX on non-Apple branded products (mainly because if they didn't have that restriction I'm sure they'd sell many more copies of it--and they could simply say that if you don't have OSX installed on Apple branded hardware we won't support it), they are well with in their rights. Until a law is passed that you actually buy the software, not the liscense to use it, the manufacturer of the software gets to decide what they will allow you to do with their product.

[hotnutts]

Psystar has added a new, upgraded version of the basic Open Computer called "OpenPro." While the OpenPro had been in the works for some time, the company noted that most of the Open Computers that were being ordered included upgraded components, and many were inquiring about quad-core processor upgrades. The $999 OpenPro can be maxed out with 8GB RAM, 2.6GHz Core2Quad processor, 1TB SATA drive, GeForce 8800GT graphics card, a mirror-finish case, and Leopard pre-installed for just a paltry $2,169. A similarly-configured Mac Pro from Apple costs $4,349, so you could stand to save a significant amount. The Mac Pro, however, can be configured for even more performance, including dual quad-core processors, RAID cards, and other options.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/...eck-out-openpro

[jstumbo]

There's no way in hel_l that Apple has a monopoly. And that's the first problem with that guy stating that Apple is violating the United State's Anti-Trust laws.

While I think that Apple is wrong for making the EULA read that you can not install OSX on non-Apple branded products (mainly because if they didn't have that restriction I'm sure they'd sell many more copies of it--and they could simply say that if you don't have OSX installed on Apple branded hardware we won't support it), they are well with in their rights. Until a law is passed that you actually buy the software, not the liscense to use it, the manufacturer of the software gets to decide what they will allow you to do with their product.

I always believe in a fair playing field for everyone. If Microsoft cannot integrate a browser into the operating system, then no other os should be allowed to do that. If Microsoft cannot put a media player in the os, then no other os should be able to do that. All that happens by handicapping the dominant operating system is that you make it so that they cannot add new features and things that customers want, while letting the smaller guys add all those features so that their operating system becomes more compelling.

Apple has always had good integration with the hardware because they owned the hardware also. They could make sure that it worked solidly with a small selection of hardware. Whereas Microsoft had to make it's OS work with a million different combinations of hardware. By preventing people from installing the Apple OS on non Apple hardware, they are both protecting their hardware business and ensuring that they maintain their tight integration with the hardware. Guarenteed if you tried to install the Apple OS on the many different combination of hardware that Windows is installed on, it would probably have more problems.

Edited April 16, 2008 by jstumbo

[dave_boo]

There's no way in hel_l that Apple has a monopoly. And that's the first problem with that guy stating that Apple is violating the United State's Anti-Trust laws.

While I think that Apple is wrong for making the EULA read that you can not install OSX on non-Apple branded products (mainly because if they didn't have that restriction I'm sure they'd sell many more copies of it--and they could simply say that if you don't have OSX installed on Apple branded hardware we won't support it), they are well with in their rights. Until a law is passed that you actually buy the software, not the liscense to use it, the manufacturer of the software gets to decide what they will allow you to do with their product.

I always believe in a fair playing field for everyone. If Microsoft cannot integrate a browser into the operating system, then no other os should be allowed to do that. If Microsoft cannot put a media player in the os, then no other os should be able to do that. All that happens by handicapping the dominant operating system is that you make it so that they cannot add new features and things that customers want, while letting the smaller guys add all those features so that their operating system becomes more compelling.

There's a huge difference between a monopoly bundling in those items and locking out competitors and an enviroment where there's no single company locking people into using their products. If Microsoft wasn't some 90% of the share (I think that's what they were at the time), than had they bundled the products you listed it wouldn't have been a problem. Those consumers wishing to use competitor's equivalent products could have simply used the operating systems from those competitors.

Apple has always had good integration with the hardware because they owned the hardware also. They could make sure that it worked solidly with a small selection of hardware. Whereas Microsoft had to make it's OS work with a million different combinations of hardware. By preventing people from installing the Apple OS on non Apple hardware, they are both protecting their hardware business and ensuring that they maintain their tight integration with the hardware. Guarenteed if you tried to install the Apple OS on the many different combination of hardware that Windows is installed on, it would probably have more problems.

Agreed.

As a sidenote....While I applaud Psystar's effort, to try and compare the desktop they're offering versus the workstation that Apple has is not valid. First, they compared a dual processor (and yes, I double checked-you take $500 off of Apple's base price for a single processor, that leaves you with $3949) to a single processor machine. They compared a desktop motherboard to a workstation. We all know that having the added benefits that a workstation board offers is necessary in that line of work. I do know that the Mac Pro has FW800, built in bluetooth, 4 PCI-E slots, an extra 4-6MB cache, a 1600mhz FSB versus the 1066 offered in the Psystar, etc.

Another reason that it is so expensive is its RAM. FB-DIMMS aren't cheap. The custom case adds a bit, I couldn't give a figure how much, but it's there. I guess basically, I just wanted to emphasis that comment in the article about the OpenPro is wrong....you may disagree

[dekka007]

Speaking of cheap Apples. Someone in the classifieds is selling the new Macbook Air at 29,000 THB brand new.....sounds a bit fishy to me as they are 69,000 new!

[dekka007]

With regard to Psystar's cheap mac its beginning to look like a scam:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/04...lone_maker.html

[nikster]

Speaking of cheap Apples. Someone in the classifieds is selling the new Macbook Air at 29,000 THB brand new.....sounds a bit fishy to me as they are 69,000 new!

you know if it sounds too good to be true... it usually is...

I wouldn't even waste my time with the scammers. On craigslist in the US there are always some postings that sell brand new, out of the box laptops for something like 70% the true value. They are always scams that involve sending a check to some foreign country...

[nikster]

There's no way in hel_l that Apple has a monopoly. And that's the first problem with that guy stating that Apple is violating the United State's Anti-Trust laws.

While I think that Apple is wrong for making the EULA read that you can not install OSX on non-Apple branded products (mainly because if they didn't have that restriction I'm sure they'd sell many more copies of it--and they could simply say that if you don't have OSX installed on Apple branded hardware we won't support it), they are well with in their rights. Until a law is passed that you actually buy the software, not the liscense to use it, the manufacturer of the software gets to decide what they will allow you to do with their product.

I always believe in a fair playing field for everyone. If Microsoft cannot integrate a browser into the operating system, then no other os should be allowed to do that. If Microsoft cannot put a media player in the os, then no other os should be able to do that. All that happens by handicapping the dominant operating system is that you make it so that they cannot add new features and things that customers want, while letting the smaller guys add all those features so that their operating system becomes more compelling.

There's a huge difference between a monopoly bundling in those items and locking out competitors and an enviroment where there's no single company locking people into using their products. If Microsoft wasn't some 90% of the share (I think that's what they were at the time), than had they bundled the products you listed it wouldn't have been a problem. Those consumers wishing to use competitor's equivalent products could have simply used the operating systems from those competitors.

Apple has always had good integration with the hardware because they owned the hardware also. They could make sure that it worked solidly with a small selection of hardware. Whereas Microsoft had to make it's OS work with a million different combinations of hardware. By preventing people from installing the Apple OS on non Apple hardware, they are both protecting their hardware business and ensuring that they maintain their tight integration with the hardware. Guarenteed if you tried to install the Apple OS on the many different combination of hardware that Windows is installed on, it would probably have more problems.

Agreed.

As a sidenote....While I applaud Psystar's effort, to try and compare the desktop they're offering versus the workstation that Apple has is not valid. First, they compared a dual processor (and yes, I double checked-you take $500 off of Apple's base price for a single processor, that leaves you with $3949) to a single processor machine. They compared a desktop motherboard to a workstation. We all know that having the added benefits that a workstation board offers is necessary in that line of work. I do know that the Mac Pro has FW800, built in bluetooth, 4 PCI-E slots, an extra 4-6MB cache, a 1600mhz FSB versus the 1066 offered in the Psystar, etc.

Another reason that it is so expensive is its RAM. FB-DIMMS aren't cheap. The custom case adds a bit, I couldn't give a figure how much, but it's there. I guess basically, I just wanted to emphasis that comment in the article about the OpenPro is wrong....you may disagree

That's been a very common thing to do in this forum, by certain members, as well e.g. comparing the MacPro with a totally different and way cheaper system, then saying they are "the same" because they can both run Word and email.

@monopoly and bundling: Exactly, that's the whole reason there are monopoly laws to begin with. When a business becomes a monopoly it perverts the market.

A free market economy is supposed to further competition, which, in turn, is supposed to make better value products succeed, where value is the best price/performance ratio. The ultimate goal is to benefit the people. Unfortunately the free market stops working when a company gets into a monopoly position - as Microsoft has demonstrated amply throughout the years; stifling innovation, preventing the creation of open standards, and generally making its products incompatible with threatening competitors. Microsoft even tried to "own" the internet, silly as that sounds nowadays. But they did have a pretty good chance of succeeding back when they killed off Netscape.

The monopoly laws are not always very effective, but at least they are there.

If Apple owned 90% of the OS market, and everyone had to run OS X to do business, no way they'd get away with bundling it with their hardware. But they don't. And they still make most of their money with hardware, so clearly they are not going to license OS X any time soon. I think it would not make business sense - it would water down the brand, make support more difficult, lead to more bugs and less satisfied users, and cut into Apple's hardware sales - sales of OS licenses can't really make up for that. That's the reason the clones got killed off last time. The best way for Apple to make money and grow their market share is to remain a closed ecosystem.

BTW I still think they'd make way more money if they just sold the iPhone unlocked & everywhere.... way, way more...

[dekka007]

QUOTE (dekka007 @ 2008-04-17 07:49:45)

Speaking of cheap Apples. Someone in the classifieds is selling the new Macbook Air at 29,000 THB brand new.....sounds a bit fishy to me as they are 69,000 new!

you know if it sounds too good to be true... it usually is...

Yeah looks like a scam or attempt to get the other Macbook air seller on there which looks legit to lower his price....nice idea huh.

Edited April 17, 2008 by dekka007

[dekka007]

Yup its a scam:

Ive done some research on this advert that is selling a macbook air for 29,000 THB and it is a scam.

I called the made up bkk number no answer....she then sent me an email saying this when i said i am interested:

"Thanks for your intrest in buying the Macbook air laptop .

I am not a greedy person i am not a trader or a business person i got this laptop as my last 35 years birthday from a very close friend , had i known he wanted to give me a gifts of the Macbook air laptop, i would have told him not to do so because i do not need laptop i already have one before this is the reason why i am selling it , it is brand new , with complete accesories , i am not in a rush to sell it anyway if you really need it let me know ontime so that i can remove the adverts.i do not wants to be bothered so much about it from many buyers.

I am located in Kwai Chung Hospital Rd, NT

Hong Kong.

Get back

Thanks."

she has 2 emails addresses: [email protected] and [email protected]

if you do a search in google for marilynbgood2all it comes up with her adverts all over the world selling everything of high value including the UNRELEASED sony Expedia 1 handheld which is released at the end of the year.

She also states that the item is bangkok but in email she says hong kong...

[nikster]

She also states that the item is bangkok but in email she says hong kong...

Nigeria, for sure...

If you want to have some fun with "her", just respond it's great she's in HK because you just happen to be there on a business trip so you could easily meet...

Edited April 17, 2008 by nikster

[dekka007]

Actually I am in Hong Kong tonight and tomorrow

Follow up email was even better she says its the 1.6ghz 80gb version but if i want a 64gb ssd she can give that free......

[Richard-BKK]

Nothing new, it is known you can install OSX on regular computer hardware if you are willing to tweak a bit. The better hardware (more compatible with Apple original) the easier it gets.

Buying a Asus P5B with Intel E4700 processor and 2GB DDR2 memory, with a good Nvidia VGA card. Fast harddisk and good DVD drive and you into business. By selecting your mainboard you, need to make sure that the network chip on the mainboard is supported. Otherwise no networking in your home build Apple.

We have one home build Mac, the g/f changed one of her Mac's into a Linux machine so guess I'm only 95% illegal (we bought a Mac including operating system and we are using that 'legal' OS only with one installation).

[sjaak327]

Exactly, I use OSX Leopard on my Dell Dimension, and it not only works quick and without kernel panics, it also recognises all the hardware, mostly out of the box, video and sound with special drivers.

Of course some of the updates (not all) might replace the kernel, so sometimes I have to replace the kernel with an updated one, not to much work if you know how.

Also when you have dual core, you can basically use the original kernel and kexts.

I guesss that company selling that openmac will be prosecuted by apple for breaking the EULA, and it might even be harder to do the above, as Apple might take more measures to ensure OSX will only run on real Mac hardware.

[Richard-BKK]

It seems that Tomshardware.com look into the Mac clone....

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/psystar-o...apple,5205.html

[ariesram74]

I'd write marilyn a check ... that would bounce.

Yup its a scam:

Ive done some research on this advert that is selling a macbook air for 29,000 THB and it is a scam.

I called the made up bkk number no answer....she then sent me an email saying this when i said i am interested:

"Thanks for your intrest in buying the Macbook air laptop .

I am not a greedy person i am not a trader or a business person i got this laptop as my last 35 years birthday from a very close friend , had i known he wanted to give me a gifts of the Macbook air laptop, i would have told him not to do so because i do not need laptop i already have one before this is the reason why i am selling it , it is brand new , with complete accesories , i am not in a rush to sell it anyway if you really need it let me know ontime so that i can remove the adverts.i do not wants to be bothered so much about it from many buyers.

I am located in Kwai Chung Hospital Rd, NT

Hong Kong.

Get back

Thanks."

she has 2 emails addresses: [email protected] and [email protected]

if you do a search in google for marilynbgood2all it comes up with her adverts all over the world selling everything of high value including the UNRELEASED sony Expedia 1 handheld which is released at the end of the year.

She also states that the item is bangkok but in email she says hong kong...

[ariesram74]

Write to her and tell her you are in Hong Kong on biz with Interpol...

Actually I am in Hong Kong tonight and tomorrow

Follow up email was even better she says its the 1.6ghz 80gb version but if i want a 64gb ssd she can give that free......