Thai Health Insurance

[MikeWill]

The board is already full of posts on that subject... My guess is, expats that are not already covered by their companies, or the insurance policies from abroad, simly give little or no attention to Thai health insurance companies/policies. Some even mentioned a self insurance as a better and more viable option.

By doing a little search around, I found a company Thai Health Insurance at: http://www.thaihealth.co.th/ (in English & Thai), which has a rather reasonable rates.

In addition, I get a proposal (not available online), which offers min. annual premium per person at THB 6,937.00/8,552.00, doesn't matter the age (although, they do have an age limit to join of 65). So, for the family of 3 persons (2 adults + child), this policy will cost THB 20,811.00/25,656.00.

It covers:

1. Hospitalization Benefits (IPD) 60 days cover

1.1 Room & Board (60 days) - 1,500

1.2 ICU (intensive care unit) Max/day - 3,000

Overall maximum limit under 1.1 - 90,000

1.3 Other hospital expenses, surgical fees, etc. - 60,000

2. OPD or Clinical Benefits

2.1 One visit per day (max. 30 visits/year) - 600

2.2 X-Ray Lab Test (OPD) max./year - 6,000

2.3 Emergency Assistance (OPD) for after treatment during 15 days - 6,000

3. Personal Accident 24 hours worldwide cover - 50,000

4. Emergency Medical Assitance S.O.S - Unlimited

4.1 Evacuation

4.2 Peratriation

4.3 Mortal Returns

5. Major Medical

5.1 Max. daily Room & Board - 1,500

5.2 Pays 80% of eligible medical expenses in excess of Basic Plan (Section 1 & 2) with Corridor Deductible per per disability - 5,000

5.3 Max. Limit per disability in addition to Section 1 & 2 - 200,000

P.S. Major Medical (5) is extra, without it the annual cost is only THB 6,937.00/person

Thai Health Insurance provides a member card that allows the policy holder just to sign a medical bill, which will be paid by insurance company. There are also the Main Exclusions list of 17 clauses, the most important of which are, (1) Medical conditions or symptoms existing prior to the commencement of the policy; (7) Dental care/treatment excluding accidents to teeth, eye examination, glasses, hearing aids and cosmetic/plastic surgery except when necessary for repair or alleviation of damage to the insured person caused by accidental bodily injury.

It is my believe, the more people will apply, the cheaper it will be.

Have someone heard/can share personal experiences on that company?

Any comments?

If someone interested to join, let me know.

[taxexile]

whilst not related to the previous post i would suggest

royal sun alliance (thailand).

they offer an expat health care policy , premiums dependant on age , yearly cover in thailand , and 90 day cover out of thailand for trips home, holidays etc.

contact them either on the net (or at the bangkok office for details of the expat policy.)

i checked all the companies before signing up with them.

annual policy sum insured ..............................................................80,000,000b

annual limit on out patient procedures and prescriptions ....................50,000b (1800b deductible per claim)

in patient treatment....................................................................... fully covered

no sub limits

local ambulance.......................................................................

.... fully covered

organ transplant ............................................................................6,00

,000b

repatriation of mortal remains or local burial ....................................fully covered

emergency medical evacuation........................................................fully covered

worldwide medical treatment (excl. usa) for 90 days per year............ fully covered

(1600b deductible)

dental accidental and violent injury to teeth........................................fully covered

alternative medicine (acupuncture,naturapathic,aroma,homeopathy,osteopathy)

.....................................20,000

(1800b deductible)

the policy is called "special ultracare" for expats.

other benefits can be tacked on from a menu of things (routine dental,pregnancy etc.)

it is more expensive than the thai health insurance package mentioned in the previous post , but in my opinion offers a lot more , not the least being access to the best hospitals and cover whilst on visits back to the uk. (i would not want to put myself at the mercy of the uk nhs system)

its a gamble whether to go for health insurance or to pay as you need it and hope you never need it , but having had to fly my father back to the uk from italy when he was taken seriously ill (a medical evacuation with small jet and doctor and nurse), i was eternally grateful to the insurance company for arranging everything and paying for it.

since then i have made sure our medical insurance is kept up to date but hope never to have to use it.

[dutch]

Although I am insured in Holland,I did investigate a lot about the Thailand Healthinsurance.

I did NOT found any insurance company who insured above 65 years!!

I mean that they will stop at reaching that age.

If any company offers a continuing health insurance after 65 years ,please let me know.

In Holland there will be a new law concerning healthinsurance in 2006. This (can) bring the risk of a stop with covering dutch retirees in several foreign countries,that not belong to the countries with a treaty.Thailand is (still) umongst those countries.

I rather like to switch now than waiting for the uncertain.

[Sulaphat]

In my opinion, the Major Medical portion of the Thai Healthcare with a limit of baht 200,000 is totally inadquate to address a major illness or injury. This product is really geared towards locals who will be more interested in trading baht with the insurer for minor out-patient claims and who don't realize that the real need for coverage is in the major medical area, the area that has the potential to really get into your wallet. My suggestion is to give this type of plan a pass. Even though it is inexpensive, it is not a good value for foreigners in my opinion.

The Sun Alliance coverage is probably more appropriate. Especially the limits available in the event of a catastrophic illness or injury. The Sun Alliance policy is actually underwritten by Global Healthcare Ltd. in New Zealand. Claims are reviewed and approved in New Zealand before Sun Alliance pays them. This does not seem to cause much delay in payment and helps ensure that someone competent is taking a look at them. This unit of Sun Alliance Thailand is headed up by an expat (NZ), so you can talk to someone locally and get straight answers if you need to.

I have worked for many years in the Thai insurance industry and have compared a lot of health insurance options, both from insurers in Thailand and from off-shore providers. Sun Alliance was competitive on price and coverage and that is what I bought for me and my family. Local service was a definite plus. No complaints so far.

Other than being a policy holder, I have no commercial or financial interest in or relationship with either Sun Alliance or Global Healthcare, so this is not a self-serving plug.

[phormio]

In my opinion, the Major Medical portion of the Thai Healthcare with a limit of baht 200,000 is totally inadquate to address a major illness or injury.  This product is really geared towards locals who will be more interested in trading baht with the insurer for minor out-patient claims and who don't realize that the real need for coverage is in the major medical area, the area that has the potential to really get into your wallet.  My suggestion is to give this type of plan a pass. Even though it is inexpensive, it is not a good value for foreigners in my opinion.

The Sun Alliance coverage is probably more appropriate.  Especially the limits available in the event of a catastrophic illness or injury

....Sun Alliance was competitive on price and coverage and that is what I bought for me and my family.  Local service was a definite plus.  No complaints so far. 

Other than being a policy holder, I have no commercial or financial interest in or relationship with either Sun Alliance or Global Healthcare, so this is not a self-serving plug.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. Of course the real need for insurance is that if you need a million dollars in treatment for a serious illness you won't go bankrupt,(assuming you survive).

This last bit(I added the bold above) anticipated my next question and is nice to know.

[dutch]

I still not see a positive answer concerning continuity after becoming 65yrs.

Is Sun Alliance guaranteeing the continuity or is it a maybe??????

May be Mr.Sulaphat can check this with his insurance company?

Thanks

[Sulaphat]

Obtaining cover from a Thai domiciled insurer after the age of 60 or sometimes 65 is a problem. If you are insured before you turn 60 or 65, some insurers will allow you to continue coverage for another five years or so. Each company is different. If you are over 60, you are probably best served by looking for something outside of Thailand.

I'll check next week and post again on this.

[MikeWill]

In my opinion, the Major Medical portion of the Thai Healthcare with a limit of baht 200,000 is totally inadquate...

The limit of THB 200,000 is just for the cheapest plan. One can also buy a 1 million plan at THB 20,885.00.

This product is really geared towards locals...

My suggestion is to give it a pass. Even though it is inexpensive, it is not a good value for foreigners in my opinion.

Let me ask you:

1. What's wrong with the product that is "geared towards locals"? In my view, that is a positive aspect. Thais and foreigners are going to the same hospitals and are paing the same prices. BTW, my family is a mix of Thai and foreigner. I just think you're out of hand here, if indeed it is not a "plug"!

2. Can you please explain, which terms of the Thai Health Insurance package did not provide good value for expats?

The Sun Alliance coverage is probably more appropriate...  (does not seem to cause much delay in payment).

Actually, I have contacted and got quotations from The Sun Alliance. It was at least 3 times more expensive in price and have just minor differences in what it offers. There are also several drawbacks: one must pay the bill first and wait to be compensated later, for example.

I have worked for many years in the Thai insurance industry...

Other than being a policy holder, I have no interest in or relationship with either Sun Alliance or Global Healthcare, so this is not a self-serving plug.

All I want, is to find a suitable (reliable and not too expensive) company for health insurance.

I'm not saying that Sun Alliance is not good, it's just very expensive.

Still awaiting for quotation from the Global Healthcare.

BTW, Thai Health Insurance continue covering after 65, and it has a huge list of local hospitals, all major at least. Their policies are actually underwritten by the Thai Life Insurance company. Not sure though, if this is assuring enough.

Please share with us your experience in the Thai insurance industry, and let us know if there are problems to get paid by the Thai Health Insurance company, or any other real problems you know.

[taxexile]

Actually, I have contacted and got quotations from The Sun Alliance.  There are also several drawbacks: one must pay the bill first and wait to be compensated later, for example.

only for out patient treatment.

in patient treatment is paid by the company. who deal direct with the hospital once the company have authorised the treatment.

[MikeWill]

Not clear what are you trying to say...

only for out patient treatment.

in patient treatment is paid by the company. who deal direct with the hospital once the company have authorised the treatment.

With the Thai Health Insurance you simply show your member card (no matter in or out patient treatment), no authorization is required. But if you think that this is a disadvantage, so be it, what I can say.

And BTW, they are also provide worldwide coverage, see my initial post above:

3. Personal Accident 24 hours worldwide cover - 50,000

I am trying to find the real drawbacks of Thai Health Insurance company, if any.

[Sulaphat]

There are several insurers in Thailand providing a number of types of medical plans for families. What is best for you is really something you need to determine for yourself, so you should certainly compare the different plans available.

I offer my observations based upon 25+ years experience workng in the insurance industry, 15+ of them in Bangkok and upon my own experience in finding medical coverage for my family when I left the group plan arranged by my former employer.

I assure you that I have absolutely no financial interest in any insurance company in Thailand, or elsewhere for that matter, and would not benefit in any way from any conceivable outcome of your search for medical coverage. I offer my observations solely in an effort to be helpful to the readers of this forum.

I chose a plan with high limits because my main priority is to have catastrophic coverage available in case I, my wife or one of my children should have the misfortune of having a serious illness or accident. Having adequate coverage for these scenarios were my priorites. Yours may be different, so you need to look around for what is right for you

Many local insurers offer medical plans tailored for the Thai, not the expatriate, market. From my experience, there are some differences in what most Thais and most expatriates look for when they choose medical insurance. In my opinion, Thais will find it more important to get reimbursement for out-patient visits because most Thais can relate to these routine expenses. Fewer of them seem to be concerned with being able to meet the financial demands of major medical expenses associated with a catastrophic illness or injury. Perhaps this is a cultural thing, or perhaps at the end of the day a Thai can go to a government hospital and get low-cost care for major health issues.

From my perspective, the problem with medical plans tailored to local preferences is in the area of major medical coverage. Baht 1 million won't go all that far at Samitivej or Bumrungrad hospital in the event of a catastrophic health problem (although it is a lot better than baht 200k) and is a joke if one is visiting a western country and gets ill or hurt.

Personally I find that the cost of out-patient care in Thailand is not that expensive and if saving money on premiums were more of a factor for me than it is, I would probably elect to self-insure out-patient expenses and opt for hospitaliztion only coverage with a fairly significant per-illness deductible.

QBE, Bupa Blue Cross and Aviva also offer a nubmer of medical plans which I would generally consider as being acceptable based upon my priorites. Costs and coverages do differ and you will need to take a look at several in order to get a feel for what is available and how they address your particular needs.

I would be pleased to try to answer any specific questions you may have.

[Goat Roper]

http://www.tiecare.com/Reps.htm

Here is a site to look at for insurance, I know this company from other kinds of personal dealings.

[MikeWill]

I would be pleased to try to answer any specific questions you may have.

First, I'd like to thank you for your time and active participation in discussing this issue. Any advise for a better insurance provider is welcome. Although, I don't think people in this forum need to be lectured in the manner like: "What is best for you is really something you need to determine for yourself...".

You've mentioned several health insurers (QBE, Bupa Blue Cross and Aviva), but not the Thai Health Insurance. Is it because of some particular reason?

There were rather bad comments on Aviva in this forum. As far as I recall, they were related to difficulties in receiving payments for claims. Insurance business, as you probably aware of, isn't exactly characterized by plain blunt righteousness.

In my view, it is an advantage to have a local insurer. Your assessment of average Thai person that apply for the health insurance is wrong. It is mostly for the affluent families, resourceless people rarely do it.

So, I would like to find out any comments specifically on the Thai Health Insurance practices. That was a reason I've started this topic in a heartfelt way.

Does this sound specific enough? If so, ring the bell.

[Sulaphat]

I am not aware of any significant deficiencies in Thai Health's services.

But I have less experience dealing with them than I do with some other insurers in Thailand. They were less of a presence in the medical insurance market while I was involved in employee benefit medical programs. My guess is that one would not have any major problems with them as long as the product one chose suited one's needs.

Did did not mean to lecture and I certainly did not mean any offence. I guess that I'm accustomed to having to use disclaimers in my work and they just slip out sometimes. Sorry.

Aviva does have a reputation for being difficult on claims and they would not be my first choice for medical insurance.

I agree that the insurance industry has a very poor reputation. In many cases well deserved.

Wish I could be more specific on Thai Health's capabilities. Hope this helps anyway.

[rcjoop]

I still not see a positive answer concerning continuity after becoming 65yrs.

Is Sun Alliance guaranteeing the continuity or is it a maybe??????

May be Mr.Sulaphat can check this with his insurance company?

Thanks

Dutch, you will probably know this already but BUPA-Thailand will cover for life if you join before 60, but perhaps you passed this mark already so it is not applicable to you.

You mentioned that you were insured in Holland, my insurer (VGZ) has informed me that the policy will terminate when I move to Thailand next year. The only Netherlands based company I know of that covers long-time settling abroad is Zilveren Kruis with their “Wereldpolis” , excellent coverage with a high price.

I would be interested if you discovered other possibilities. You can PM me instead of posting if you think it is not of interest for the group. Joop

[taxexile]

I chose a plan with high limits because my main priority is to have catastrophic coverage available in case I, my wife or one of my children should have the misfortune of having a serious illness or accident. Having adequate coverage for these scenarios were my priorites. Yours may be different, so you need to look around for what is right for you

Many local insurers offer medical plans tailored for the Thai, not the expatriate, market. From my experience, there are some differences in what most Thais and most expatriates look for when they choose medical insurance. In my opinion, Thais will find it more important to get reimbursement for out-patient visits because most Thais can relate to these routine expenses. Fewer of them seem to be concerned with being able to meet the financial demands of major medical expenses associated with a catastrophic illness or injury. Perhaps this is a cultural thing, or perhaps at the end of the day a Thai can go to a government hospital and get low-cost care for major health issues.

From my perspective, the problem with medical plans tailored to local preferences is in the area of major medical coverage. Baht 1 million won't go all that far at Samitivej or Bumrungrad hospital in the event of a catastrophic health problem (although it is a lot better than baht 200k) and is a joke if one is visiting a western country and gets ill or hurt.

those are my views on the matter too.

i would feel happier being treated in one of bangkoks international hospitals rather than in one of the government hospitals. from what i have heard and what i know, some doctors are less than dedicated, not too hot in the diagnosis department and out of date knowledgewise.

i reckon my chances of getting the right diagnosis and the right treatment would be increased in a well run hospital with good doctors and good labs.

if i had an ingrowing toenail or a broken arm then i would be happy to let a government hospital sort me out , but if i had some obscure metabolic imbalance or non specific symptoms that required an organised diagnostic approach then i would want something more professional.

thailand has one of the worst survival rates in the world for malignant disease.

i suspect that this is due largely to poor and/or late and haphazard diagnosis.

i worked in the medical field in the uk for 20 years , both in hospitals and running my own clinic and have seen more than enough to convince me that any economy with health expenditure is false economy indeed. you get only what you pay for.

and its far better off being covered by a policy that overinsures you, rather than have to argue with jobsworths over the small print of a claim , especially if you are having to argue whilst on a sickbed , or a loved one is on that sickbed.

with health , its no time to be a cheapskate. get the best you can afford.

[MikeWill]

Very informative posting?! Or would it better to say entertaining!

i would feel happier being treated in one of bangkoks international hospitals rather than in one of the government hospitals.

from what i have heard and what i know, some doctors are less than dedicated, not too hot in the diagnosis department and out of date knowledgewise.

Re: knowledgewise

1. There is no international hospitals in Thailand, you probably want to compare private and government ones, or maybe referring to international standards.

2. As for the doctors, for your information, most (including chief specialists and even department heads) do work/practice in many hospitals/clinics private and government alike. Several days a week in one, several in others.

Per my knowledge and (more than 20 years of Thai) experience, you may well choose the hospital where the doctor of your choice will treat you. Though, I do acknowledge that some hospitals (private and government) have a more modern/specialized equipment that others lack. Myself was treated in the Chulalongkorn (government), Piyavate - BONE & JOINT Center (private), Bangkok Christian (non–profit private), and some other hospitals, depend on case, including the BNH, where I take my daughter since it has the best children's doctor I know of, and the modern vaccines imported from USA.

As I have already mentioned there are more than 300 hospitals/clinics (including all major) on the list of Thai Health Insurance company.

3. The comments on how good/dedicated Thai doctors are, I'll better leave for someone more enlightened in the subject. Personally, I have no complains, maybe just good fortune.

i reckon my chances of getting the right diagnosis and the right treatment would be increased in a well run hospital with good doctors and good labs.

thailand has one of the worst survival rates in the world for malignant disease.

i suspect that this is due largely to poor and/or late and haphazard diagnosis.

May you share with us, the sources of your statement.

As far as I know, Thailand is rather popular destination among tourists looking for good quality and inexpensive medical treatments.

i worked in the medical field in the uk for 20 years , both in hospitals and running my own clinic and have seen more than enough to convince me...

It wasn't the purpose of this post to convince you of something, just to present some alternatives. Like it or not, it's your business.

[phormio]

...

Re: knowledgewise...

2. As for the doctors, for your information, most (including chief specialists and even department heads) do work/practice in many hospitals/clinics private and government alike. Several days a week in one, several in others.

Per my knowledge and (more than 20 years of Thai) experience, you may well choose the hospital where the doctor of your choice will treat you. Though, I do acknowledge that some hospitals (private and government) have a more modern/specialized equipment that others lack. Myself was treated in the Chulalongkorn (government), Piyavate - BONE & JOINT Center (private), Bangkok Christian (non–profit private), and some other hospitals, depend on case, including the BNH, where I take my daughter since it has the best children's doctor I know of, and the modern vaccines imported from USA.

As I have already mentioned there are more than 300 hospitals/clinics (including all major) on the list of Thai Health Insurance company.

...

May you share with us, the sources of your statement.

As far as I know, Thailand is rather popular destination among tourists looking for good quality and inexpensive medical treatments.

...

It wasn't the purpose of this post to convince you of something, just to present some alternatives. Like it or not, it's your business.

A couple of things in this post surprised me so I'd like to clarify a few things.

I was treated at Bangkok Christian Hospital in 1999 for a hemorhoid( thanks be that these forums are anonymous and secure - I hope ). I went to the waiting room at the hospital , registered, and waited my turn to be called in . I had no selection of doctor, just pulled the guy who happened to be on duty.

Your post seems to indicate that you can make an appointment with a particular doctor at the hospital. My Thai wife(bangkok native) expressed surprise at this, though she hasn't lived there for over 10 years.

Can one pick a 'personal care physician' like is done in the US and make an appointment to see him/her ? Is this common practice?

More importantly can you PM me perhaps, and recommend some good pediatricians/children's doctors - we're moving to Thailand with a 1 year old daughter in a few months.

Thanks.

[MikeWill]

Your post seems to indicate that you can make an appointment with a particular doctor at the hospital... Can one pick a 'personal care physician' like is done in the US and make an appointment to see him/her? Is this common practice?

Sure, that's exactly what I do, when I know the doctor I want to visit. I just call to the hospital/clinic and make an appointment. In some hospitals (BHN for example) one can even make an appointment online.

More importantly can you PM me perhaps, and recommend some good pediatricians/children's doctors - we're moving to Thailand with a 1 year old daughter in a few months.

Thanks.

I will PM you the name of my daughter's doctor at BNH hospital.

[phormio]

Your post seems to indicate that you can make an appointment with a particular doctor at the hospital... Can one pick a 'personal care physician' like is done in the US and make an appointment to see him/her? Is this common practice?

Sure, that's exactly what I do, when I know the doctor I want to visit. I just call to the hospital/clinic and make an appointment. In some hospitals (BHN for example) one can even make an appointment online.

More importantly can you PM me perhaps, and recommend some good pediatricians/children's doctors - we're moving to Thailand with a 1 year old daughter in a few months.

Thanks.

I will PM you the name of my daughter's doctor at BNH hospital.

Thanks Dude, you're a bud!