Certified English Translation Of Marriage Cert

[Prakanong2005]

OK after the Amphur Wedding where would I get a certified English copy.

I assume on of the agents clost to the Embassy on Ploenchit could do the translation (or I could ask on of out BKK office staff I suppose).

Is it then the embassy that would then certify this - I do not have a cluye about this.

I am assuming I will need an English translation for Singapore if I take the job there

[GU22]

An English copy of the marriage certificate is certainly a good idea.

Any competent translation agency can do it for you, and they certify that it is a true translation by placing a stamp on it. There is no need to take it to the embassy.

[Prakanong2005]

An English copy of the marriage certificate is certainly a good idea.

Any competent translation agency can do it for you, and they certify that it is a true translation by placing a stamp on it. There is no need to take it to the embassy.

Oh thats great - thanks for the answer.

I was thinking of asking one of the girls in our Bangkok office but the money it would save would be naff all as I would have to get it certified by an agency anyway.

She did offer though and as she grew up mostly outside Thailand her English is pretty much perfect - better than many native English speakers ;-)

[lopburi3]

AFAIK the only accepted seal in Thailand is that of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) for international use; just as you required for your permission to marry paper. The translator should be certified by the MFA and then the paper taken to the MFA for filing and obtain that stamp to make it officially recognized outside of Thailand. I would make several for possible future use.

[GU22]

The stamp placed on our documents by the translation office we used says, in English and Thai:

Name of company

Certified Correct Translation

Signature of translator

Name of translator

They had the documents a couple of days, so I assume could have gone to the MFA, but there is no MFA seal on the translations.

These translations were accepted by the British embassy and on every occasion we have needed them in the UK; applying for N.I. number, driving licence, etc.

[Prakanong2005]

I will probably need it for the Singapore Authorities so I will email and ask them what they require.

The Company is sorting all this out apparently but I want to make sure

[lopburi3]

GU22:

I understand what you are saying and it may well work for others. People are getting away with using notary stamps from this country that has no notary service also. But.

The translation service certification only means that the text has been translated; but that does not make it legal document until you have another seal/stamp from the Office of the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand and a dated registration number on it. I would say you were lucky as do not believe that document you used could be submitted to a court of law outside of Thailand and be considered legal. I would take the extra step/expense rather than risk a problem later.

[the scouser]

I take Lopburi3's point, but the general principle which operates in the UK is that a translation is deemed correct unless the receiving authority has reason to doubt its authenticity, in which case they are free to instruct their own translators.

As an Immigration Officer and visa officer I routinely accepted translations which were endorsed only by the bureaux which had conducted them, and we were under no instruction to do otherwise.

Scouse.

[lopburi3]

Believe that the MFA procedure is really to authenticate the document rather than the translation. If people will accept the document at face value it should not be required. I guess governments are more trusting than I am.

[bina]

lop,

run past again??? the notary bit???

i need to get a translated copy of my divorce papers (from hebrew to english , engl. to thai) notarized; then if /when get married; from thai to english then english to hebrew , notarized.... eng/heb is no prblm as is the notarization as we have tons .... how do i get a notarized copy of something if translated and sent thru email (or snail mail)... is it done??? how do i say notarize???notary???..in thailand or here (israel) possible at embassy/consul?

i have six months before israel becomes an extreme religious non democratic state and stops allowing non jewish partners of mixed marriages in... (courts over ruled the appeal today argh... mostly trying to not allow arab partners but will include everyone to be politically correct) so going for paper work now!!!

[lopburi3]

The US Embassy will notarize documents and with your passport you should be able to use that service if you need. I suspect what you could also do is use the MFA registration as that should make the document legal for something of Thai origin.

There has never been a notary type service in Thailand but recently some law offices have come up with a stamp and seal and are using it. I do not know if it is legal or not; and as the Embassy options are not cheap suspect it would be much discussed if fully legal.

[GU22]

Whilst I know nothing of the requirements of either the US or the Israeli governments, to avoid confusion I would just like to re-emphasise the situation as far as the UK is concerned.

The original document plus a translation certified as a true translation by the person who translated it is all that is needed both for the embassy and any situation in the UK where the document may be required. The translation will not be a legal document, but the original still will be.

Other countries may well, of course, have different rules.

Edited May 15, 2006 by GU22

[lopburi3]

This is the office in charge of legalization in the UK. For Thailand it is the MFA. As I mentioned the UK may accept at face value but if it does "in all cases" I suspect it is an exception in this world of lawyers.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/legalisation

[GU22]

Why do documents need to be Legalised?

If you are going to use British documents overseas, for business or personal reasons, you will probably be asked to have your documents stamped by us before they can be accepted. If you are not sure what documents need to be legalised you should contact the authority who require the documents. Advice can often be found at the relevant embassy in London.

(My emphasis)

This is a service for those who need to have British documents legalised to meet the requirements of other countries.

I repeat,

In all circumstances in the UK where you need to present a Thai document (e.g. marriage certificate) the original document plus a translation certified as a correct translation by the translation office will suffice.

We have done this when applying to:-

British embassy, Bangkok for visas (settlement visas for wife and step-daughter, visit visa for step-son.

Immigration and Nationality Directorate for both ILR and British citizenship.

Dept. of Work and Pensions for a National Insurance number.

Inland Revenue when registering for income tax.

Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency for a drivers licence.

Department of Health when registering with a doctor.

Two different banks when opening accounts.

In fact in any and all situations where we have had to produce our marriage certificate, wife's birth certificate, daughters birth certificate, the sole custody papers for my wife's children, or any other Thai document.

We have never had anyone question the veracity of the translations nor demand that we get them notarised.

I know personally several couples and via an internet forum hundreds of other couples who will tell you exactly the same thing.

As Scouse said

in the UK is that a translation is deemed correct unless the receiving authority has reason to doubt its authenticity, in which case they are free to instruct their own translators.

As for authenticating the original document, well our marriage certificate, and all the birth certificates etc. already have the relevant official Thai government seal on them.

The situation may well be different in other countries, but as far as the UK is concerned there is no need to go to the trouble and expense of going to the MFA to have them put a seal on the translations.

Edited May 15, 2006 by GU22

[sua yai]

That last comment from GU22 has me a little confused.

My wife will be applying for a VV to the UK in a couple of months. I've looked at our marriage certificate and it only has the Amphur stamp on it, not an MFA stamp. Does this mean that we have to take it up to BKK to get the MFA stamp to make it truely a legal document in the eyes of the UK authorities?

[lopburi3]

Believe he is saying you do not have to do it.

I say there is no way the UK authorities would know that paper was authentic without the MFA seal (which they should have a copy of). That is the whole rational of the legalization system - to confirm a locally used seal is real. That he has not been challenged I don't dispute but the procedure is there to provide proof if you ever are questioned and for what little it costs I would advise doing so. And that is also why you should use a translation service whose seal is on record with the MFA.

GU22

I understand the UK site is for documents to be used elsewhere but it is in English and gives a good explanation.

[Dragonman]

Believe that the MFA procedure is really to authenticate the document rather than the translation. If people will accept the document at face value it should not be required. I guess governments are more trusting than I am.

This is correct. The MFA legalizes a document, but does not have the ability to translate. It has always been present in Thai Law that the translator is responsible under Civil, and where fraudulent Criminal, liability. The original document is the legal document, in the USA and UK,( as posted by GU22) and as the scouser posted, translations will only be queried where there is suspected fraud.

Now Singapore is probably a different matter and I would check with the Authorities.

Lawyers have no greater Authority for notarization than a certified Travel Agent in Thailand.

sua yai. If you have not obtained a translation from a certified translator, you need a couple. No need for MFA.

[Dragonman]

That is the whole rational of the legalization system - to confirm a locally used seal is real.

GU22

The legalization system is in respect of the requirements of Thai Law, not overseas Laws!

Who confirms the MFA seal is genuine in the city of forgers extraodinaire?

[chanchao]

> The translator should be certified by the MFA

This bit is incorrect. Anyone can translate a Thai document to English and take it to the Thai Ministry of Consular Affairs (on Chaeng Wattana Rd, next to TOT) to get it legalized.

Foreign embassies may then do their own legalization based on the approval stamps issues by the Thai ministry.

I know because I translate everything myself. Too many stupid mistakes by all the 'law' agencies. I'm sure there's very good, professional law / translation services around too and they may not even be that expensive. For me though, I just do it myself so I know it's done right. (not just the translation, but especially also the spelling of names, even correctly typing ID numbers and stuff.. I've seen so many mistakes I just don't bother, and save money and effort in the process.

I will do a separate post on this and may even put translation templates of certain common & standard documents online. (Such as the house registration document, birth certificate, etc.) You do indeed need to include a box/line 'Certified Correct Translation', name the translator (i.e. yourself and sign it.

Just did it yesterday. Was out of the Thai Ministry within an hour. (Which was just as well as my embassy only opens before noon, the buggers.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Dragonman]

> The translator should be certified by the MFA

This bit is incorrect. Anyone can translate a Thai document to English and take it to the Thai Ministry of Consular Affairs (on Chaeng Wattana Rd, next to TOT) to get it legalized.

Foreign embassies may then do their own legalization based on the approval stamps issues by the Thai ministry.

I know because I translate everything myself. Too many stupid mistakes by all the 'law' agencies. I'm sure there's very good, professional law / translation services around too and they may not even be that expensive. For me though, I just do it myself so I know it's done right. (not just the translation, but especially also the spelling of names, even correctly typing ID numbers and stuff.. I've seen so many mistakes I just don't bother, and save money and effort in the process.

I will do a separate post on this and may even put translation templates of certain common & standard documents online. (Such as the house registration document, birth certificate, etc.) You do indeed need to include a box/line 'Certified Correct Translation', name the translator (i.e. yourself and sign it.

Just did it yesterday. Was out of the Thai Ministry within an hour. (Which was just as well as my embassy only opens before noon, the buggers.

Cheers,

Chanchao

This is fine as long as you have the confidence in your ability. However, I prefer someone else to have the civil or criminal responsibility for errors.

[chanchao]

Well, that's the point of legalization. Nobody is going to come knocking on some fly-by-night translation/law shop because of some translation choice. The Thai ministry verifies that the translation is okay, and the embassies just require this certification.

I can see your point though, and feel free to let anyone else sign for the translation.

But as a second in-between-the-lines message: Don't trust translations services and do verify EVERYTHING, including every last ID card digit and name spelling.

[lopburi3]

> The translator should be certified by the MFA

This bit is incorrect. Anyone can translate a Thai document to English and take it to the Thai Ministry of Consular Affairs (on Chaeng Wattana Rd, next to TOT) to get it legalized.

I am taking about a second party application. If you show up with a document translated and signed/stamped by someone not on the MFA list of approved translators that document has to be re translated and stamped by someone who is unless there has been a recent change as I witnessed this happen. If you do yourself they can verify your signature but if it is a second party believe they still have to be an approved service. But it has been about 10 years so perhaps things have changed.

[Dragonman]

Well, that's the point of legalization. Nobody is going to come knocking on some fly-by-night translation/law shop because of some translation choice. The Thai ministry verifies that the translation is okay, and the embassies just require this certification.

I can see your point though, and feel free to let anyone else sign for the translation.

But as a second in-between-the-lines message: Don't trust translations services and do verify EVERYTHING, including every last ID card digit and name spelling.

According to my recent corresondence with MFA they do not verify the translation is OK, and in fact they say they only certify common documents as being legal, not the contents. A recent post stated that they would not certify a Will, although I know a Thai Judge has previously requested a foreign Will needs to be certified. The high ranking official at MFA said "if you need a Will certified you only need go to an official translator!"

[bina]

guess i'll speak to the thai consulate here for translation help/notary cause israel only accepts notarized versions of everything (been there done that from US/to israeli documentation for previous marriage... )but from thai/to hebrew docu...??? i know its been done before but just cant find anyone that i can speak to that has actually done this...

[GU22]

That last comment from GU22 has me a little confused.

My wife will be applying for a VV to the UK in a couple of months. I've looked at our marriage certificate and it only has the Amphur stamp on it, not an MFA stamp. Does this mean that we have to take it up to BKK to get the MFA stamp to make it truely a legal document in the eyes of the UK authorities?

No.

The stamp put on it by the Ampur makes it legal, and it has the Thai govermnment Garuda bird seal printed on it as well. The original certificate will suffice. Strictly speaking it is not even necessary to submit a translation with a visa application, but I always think it's a good idea to do so.

Posted by Lopburi3

I say there is no way the UK authorities would know that paper was authentic without the MFA seal (which they should have a copy of).

They do accept them. I also doubt very much that my local DWP office has a copy of the Thai MFA seal!

How many times, Lopburi3, have you applied to a UK government department for anything? If you ever have, how many times have you had to provide translated documents?

You may know a lot about Thai law and Thai immigration and US law and US immigration, but with respect, how much do you know about UK immigration and UK law?

The experience of myself and many others with UK law and UK immigration has shown that the original document plus a certified translation is always accepted in the UK. On top of that we have the advice of a knowledgeable and experienced man who has actually done the job himself, Scouse. Who said

As an Immigration Officer and visa officer I routinely accepted translations which were endorsed only by the bureaux which had conducted them, and we were under no instruction to do otherwise.

Lopburi3, what you are saying is no doubt true for the US, but it is totally unnecessary for the UK.

Live with it.

Edited May 16, 2006 by GU22

[lopburi3]

I have never said what the UK could or would accept as I accept your report that they will take an original at face value but what I am talking about is a copy. What you receive from the MFA are copies of the original document attached to the translations. These then have the same status as the original and there is no chance for an original document getting lost in the mail using this method.

And I do not claim any special knowledge of laws or lawyers. I have the same feeling most of us have about that carrier choice.

[GU22]

What you receive from the MFA are copies of the original document attached to the translations. These then have the same status as the original and there is no chance for an original document getting lost in the mail using this method.

But why would you need copies of the Thai originals? Unless, as you say, the originals get lost. Fortunately we have not lost any of our Thai documents. My wife tells me that if we were unfortunate enough to do so that we could obtain copies from the Ampur that issued the original one. But she is from a poor family and never finished high school, so perhaps you know better than her.

One thing, though, is clear from this protracted conversation.

Different countries have different rules on what paperwork is required and on what is acceptable. Offering advise based upon the US requirements to someone who has asked about the UK ones only serves to confuse, and vice versa.

[daleyboy]

Sorry bit late on the posting.

We are in the U.K and just applied for our newborns passport. When i put on the application that the mother is Thai, then they ask for a marriage cert. Of course ours is in Thai and never got a certified translation. Now there's me panicking about where i am going to get this copy done, so i ring the school of linguists, who want a stupid amount of money.

Anyway i found a translator in Bristol who was excellent, i emailed a copy of our certificate, and the following day i received the certified copy back, and all for £54 not bad So i guess the moral of the story is get a translation done at the time, instead of waiting till you might need it

BTW anyone who needs a translation done, i can highly recommend the chap i used, anybody wants the details pm me