jspill

Police said the company originally reported she had suffered a heart attack.

From the link in OP

The visa is intended for 2 important groups of visitors;

1. People who are wealthier and have a higher spend rate than the typical visitor to Thailand and,

2. Asian nations not part of the ASEAN visa waiver system (Taiwan, Hong Kong,South Korea and Japan)

This visa is not directed at the foreigners who are of limited financial means or who come to Thailand for extended periods.

How does having $6k in the bank guarantee that person will be a big spender? People could just have 6k USD in the bank when applying and still not spend anything here... like some people on retirement just keep 800k THB in the bank to meet the criteria.

$6k is not exactly wealthy either.

The visa is more likely intended to weed out people working in Thailand (illegal tour guide, teacher etc.) $6k is six months of a TEFL teacher's salary, in the bank already, so that person probably isn't going to seek work here.

All of the people commenting are from western countries and may be oblivious to the travel habits of wealthy Asians. Many wealthy Asians like to pop over to Thailand for a week or weekend on a regular basis. There are some who would like to have second homes and come more often.

Thailand is to Hong Kong what Florida and the Carribean is to Canadians and Americans living in the North American Northeast, or what Spain and the Azores are to the UK and continental Europe.Thailand is Taiwan, South Korea and Japan what Hawaii and Mexico are to western North Americans. The visa structure to date, was a hassle for these people. They want to be able to come and go when they want.

This new Visa is ideal for the wealthy Americans and Canadians who like to travel or who for personal or investment reasons can only stay in Thailand a few weeks or months at a time. It's brilliant.

Those people could already do that perfectly conveniently on visa waivers. They fit the profile of tourists and would never be questioned at borders.

Just turning up and getting 30 days free is a lot more convenient than applying for this new visa and showing bank statements, they'll probably continue to do that.

Anyone else seen or experienced anything like this?

Well if you missed it, it was all over the forum a little over 6 months ago, huge threads with hundreds of posts, it was in the Bangkok Post, Asian Correspondent, other international media, and there's a Facebook group with hundreds of expats created to post reports about it, and at one point the group founder met with the Thonglor police chief. Few links:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781621-surge-of-reported-police-harassment-suggests-campaign-targeting-tourists-expats/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/128988/bangkok-shakedown-tourists-report-increased-harassment-by-police/

http://www.stickboybangkok.com/news/expat-restaurateur-meets-rtp-discuss-stopsearch-harassment/

The facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/fooktheboysinbrown/

You're the one clutching at straws by interpreting the Alien Working act with bias

I'm just reading it as it is, it keeps talking about being an employee of a Thai employer, contributing to an expense fund out of wages, having a set place of work and so on.

Says nothing about entrepeneurs with partially passive income, in foreign currencies, derived from outside Thailand... feels more like I'm just using common sense than clutching at straws.

You're the one clutching at straws by interpreting the Alien Working act with bias and probably ignoring the Immigration act. I've worked here online for years, and for years I thought I was legal, but even though it suits me to follow your rationale I can't because I know the facts direct from the authorities in Thailand which is all that count.

And you have these facts in some written form, or?

I've read the immigration act and the criteria for persona non grata - http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

In fact from that link, people who are persona non grata include:

2. Those who have no appropriate means of earning a living once they have entered the Kingdom.

3. Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training

Those two points seem to imply to me that I'm ok as long as I support myself and don't take jobs from Thais in the process.

You should check Singapore's requirements more carefully !

"Multiple-Entry Tourist Visa: $8,000 per person (6 months of financial statements)"

http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-/-consular/visa-requirements/tourist-visa

: > )

Edit to include link

So they want to see money, like Vientiane has for years? What does that have to do with 'proof of a job' or your hypothesis that people who work for western companies won't be allowed to get this visa and do some work remotely from Thailand while they're here?

There is nothing in the Alien Working Act that exempts online work from requiring a WP.

Those working online that continue to encourage others to do the same should try the following.

1. On your next visa application write the reason for visa as 'Live in Thailand and work online'.
2. Go to your local Department of Labour, inform them that you work online, and ask for a WP.

If successful at obtaining both, or are told a WP isn't needed, please report back.

The only reason online workers get away with it is because they do not disclose their activities, are an insignificant number and are probably way down on the authorities hit list. The time and cost of perusing these people is prohibitive alone.

Forgive me if I put the burden of proof on the people telling me I'm a criminal instead, and don't go out of my way to prove a negative.

You realise online income is usually passive, right? So it's slowly entering people's bank accounts without them doing anything. Income isn't linearly related to hours put in anymore, like in the ancestral realm of chisels, overalls and spades. Does anyone with a residual online income become a criminal when they set foot in Thailand?

You don't seem to understand what residual income is. It is not running a website, maintaing a blog site, writing travel blogs, etc. Residual is getting royalties from book sales, from past roles in movies, perhaps from patent rights, or from one's investment portfolio. Of course throughout history I am sure many writers and authors vacationed in Thailand or other countries and wrote their books, novels, poems, maybe even contributed to articles in journals. Anyway, the more people push the limits of the tourist visas, when they clearly are not tourists, the more the chances of something happening that they don't want to have happen will.

You know ebooks can be sold online on Amazon, and you receive recurring royalties? And these 'ebooks' are often the main product on a travel blog? Plus other websites can promote your blog too for an affiliate commission, and send you recurring royalties.

What internet marketers do fits the general definition below just fine.

It's a synonym of 'passive' and there are dozens of websites about making passive income online, one called 'smartpassiveincome', is the most well-known one. Fine it's used for investments too, words can be flexible.

You guys really are grabbing at anything you can here because you have no concrete evidence for working online actually being illegal.

The Thai embassy in Rome has just announced the new METV. Two of the conditions (based on TV member translations) are:

• 6,000 euros in the bank (approx 240k thb).
• Proof of a job.

And they are dropping the 2 and 3 entry TR's.

IF conditions like that are imposed across the world it will have a big impact.

It's always been the case that in Vientiane you may asked to show 'proof of income'. Money coming in from overseas on a regular basis to prove one is not working in Thailand.

Anyway the word 'income' there and 'job' on the Rome embassy website are most likely just synonymous with 'money in your account'. We also know consultates rarely get the he details right, or

You're clutching at straws with nothing to go on other than 'working is working' in the Alien Labor act. These threads have been going on for years, and digital nomads are still here.

We all know consulates' websites are less than reliable. The Singapore website doesn't mention anything like that:

What's with blog about cats???

Just an example to show how varied money making endeavours online are

There are people that make millions simply recording themselves playing video games and telling jokes (Google Youtube user 'PewDiePie'). I can't see him being arrested and put on trial if he flies to Thailand for a 9 month trip, spending some of those American dollars on Thai goods and churning out a few more videos while on Thai soil.

All that matters is the location of the WORKER not the location of the parent company or where any salary gets paid.

In your opinion.

Here's a Thaivisa member being told 'no problem for you!' when explaining at immigration that he works online. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

Many such reports on these forums, and not one digital nomad arrested, ever, in Thailand or worldwide. Can you imagine the US authorities arresting a Thai tourist for running an adsense blog about cats, in the Thai language?

There is nothing in the Alien Working Act that exempts online work from requiring a WP.

Those working online that continue to encourage others to do the same should try the following.

1. On your next visa application write the reason for visa as 'Live in Thailand and work online'.
2. Go to your local Department of Labour, inform them that you work online, and ask for a WP.

If successful at obtaining both, or are told a WP isn't needed, please report back.

The only reason online workers get away with it is because they do not disclose their activities, are an insignificant number and are probably way down on the authorities hit list. The time and cost of perusing these people is prohibitive alone.

Forgive me if I put the burden of proof on the people telling me I'm a criminal instead, and don't go out of my way to prove a negative.

You realise online income is usually passive, right? So it's slowly entering people's bank accounts without them doing anything. Income isn't linearly related to hours put in anymore, like in the ancestral realm of chisels, overalls and spades. Does anyone with a residual online income become a criminal when they set foot in Thailand?

How incorrect can you be ? YOU are in Thailand and YOU are working, be it remotely or not - that is illegal without the correct visa and work permit.

Tell the online teachers that were arrested and deported from Chaing Mai that there have never been any arrests !

If I'm incorrect can you show me where in the Alien Labor act it references work done online for offshore entities? I'll show you 10 times where it refers to Thai employers and Thai Baht wages.

You mean the teachers that were working in an office for a Thai company, were paid in Baht, and the company had tax issues which is why it drew the attention of the authorities? That's about as far away from the definition of offshore remote work as it gets, so an irrelevant example.

Look forward to a future where you're old and jaded with not much going on in your life, so you spend your mornings making gimmick accounts on Thailand messageboards to get some validation.

I always find it amazing the number of "digital nomads" who are working online, want to live it up somewhere... but don't want to do so legally.

the fact is if you can't afford the 500,000 baht for a elite card, you probably aren't contributing significantly to the economy anyway.

at current exchange rates that is around $250 usd a month - which isn't really that much if you are making a good living and want to settle down somewhere like Thailand.

Again it's not explicitly illegal to have a monetized blog about cats and withdraw some Adsense revenue to a Skrill debit card, and spend that on a pad Thai, while on Thai soil on a tourist visa.

Also don't Thailand elite T&Cs also state 'employment prohibited'? If you think that means also means online work for tourists, the same applies to Thai Elite members. Can't have it both ways.

With Thailand Elite you're paying for not having to do border runs, and airport limos / golf membership perks, not for the explicit right to work online 'legally'.

One reason they don't want people your age living here is presumably you need to work. OP works on internet. Technically illegal to do that in Thailand.

That's just an assumption based on the Alien Labor act defining working as 'working' in a circular reference. Then it goes on to mention having a Thai employer and Thai Baht salary about 17 times. There's nothing explicit or even slighty implied in there about work done on the internet being illegal.

Anyway that's been discussed in many threads - there's no clear answer.

More likely the reason they don't want lots of young people living here cheaply is the social impact, they worry about their culture being diluted by westerners. Older people are less of a threat in that regard.

One Cambodian border post not letting in people on in/out visa waivers, and then going back to normal a week later, is nothing like introducing overstay bans.

Apples and oranges.

The latter would require a change to the immigration act and have human rights issues with families getting separated.

It's more like the LAST thing they'd ever crack down on, much easier for them to tweak Ed visa rules or out/in visa-free travel.

And would come with 60 days notice, not overnight.

Technically at the moment there aren't any ramifications, to surrendering at the airport, and paying the fine. Whether you think that's a good thing or not it besides the point.

As for 'crackdowns', I think you'll find any overstay rule changes would need a 60 day notice period before they go into effect, so people would have plenty of notice to stop future ramifications from happening to them.

Many think of a overstay as an acceptable tool to be used in the visa process with no ramifications and not as a violation of the visa process.

Just like many thought getting an ED visa and not attending any school was acceptable.

Just like many thought quick and easy visa runs would go on forever.

Over stays are recorded on immigration computers, even if they are not documented in your passport.

Immigration is obviously "tightening up".

What would your guess be as to where the next immigration "crackdown" will be?

It is not very difficult to pay attention tho the dates and be responsible.

Is it?

What has this moralizing got to do with the thread? Who was condoning overstay?

This thread is about whether or not certain blacklisting rules are in place or not.

Or should we pretend rules that have been shelved, haven't been, in order to intimidate people like OP asking a simple question?

Just post pics of immigration signs as if they're correct, when people on the forum have left on overstay, and returned, without being blacklisted, many months after the signs were put up?

(With 11 year overstays no less.)

Let's get serious.

Everyone knows the attached sigh is only a notice authorized by the Thai government and posted by the Thai Immigration department.

We all know the real experts and people with authority in these matters are the Thaivisa members.

Isn't that who's advice we should follow?

Thailand makes 'announcements' that don't materialize, on a near-monthly basis, so yes actually I prefer following a messageboard run by a team of westerners. It may look strange to someone new to living here.

It isn't surprising to me that Thailand announced this then never released a statement to say that actually it's not going to happen. As mentioned the guy who proposed it isn't even working at immigration anymore.

Threads about these signs at immigration go back over 8 months, maybe longer, this is the first one that came up in search:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/801613-harsh-overstay-rules-ever-enforced/

If you fly in you get 30 days as an Australian. The 15 days is for land borders (30 days for G7 countries).

You'll be fine, you can do 6 visa-exempt entries in a year before IOs start to ask to see flight bookings, proof of funds etc.

No time limit for going from Ed to visa exempt, that only applies for back to back visa exempts.

Try the Philippines.

You'll most likely be able to extend each 60 day entry to 90, as with a regular tourist visa. Otherwise it'd contradict the immigration act, which says up to 90 day stay for tourism. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

Most embassy websites say 'max 60 days' but neglect to finish the sentence 'after which you can extend 30 days'. The UK and Aus websites say that too.

Also that Finland embassy requirement looks insane. Thanks for posting but surely they won't actually require employment certificates and six months of bank balances, otherwise no one would bother getting that visa, they'd just get a triple entry tourist visa instead and save the hassle. Or fly in visa-free then go to Laos.

Or maybe Finland will require all that red tape, and other countries won't. Embassies can be a law unto their own.

You definitely won't have any problems in the bedroom department, they crave that a lot more than Thais, on average.

Nor with conversation. Definitely go see for yourself on your next visa run. Cebu is a bit nicer than Manila.

I wish there were more Filipinas in Thailand, they're hard to find.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131