than

She insult the families and the memories of people who committed suicide because she did not keep their promises.

35 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

well then democracy probably does not exist

Some contemporary thinkers, such as Cornelius Castoriadis or Jacques Rancière, consider that representative democracies are only pseudo-democratic, in which the people are effectively dispossessed of effective political power, which in their eyes is held by a small minority of individuals, call the Oligarchy, constituted by politicians (representatives), experts or the economic elite.

There is only one country that is really close to democracy, it is Switzerland.

All important decisions are made to citizens who accept or reject them. Contrary to the referedum which is only advisory (politicians may not accept the decision of the people, the case of France in 2005 on the referendum of the European construction reject by the French but after revised by the European authorities, french politics enforces the treaty).
The result of a vote is binding, since the authorities are obliged to apply the result of the vote regardless of the recommendations they may have made.

3 hours ago, Pridilives said:

I agree with your post 100%

Don't forget all elements....... you always quote only one side of the true

committed by all sides.

"Deliberate attacks on the security forces by the so-called “Black Shirts,” armed elements connected with the UDD, also caused deaths and injuries. UDD leaders made inflammatory speeches to demonstrators, encouraging their supporters to carry out riots, arson attacks, and looting."

Yes I forget  the official line of red terrorrists: 

"Despite clear photographic and other evidence, the UDD leadership and its supporters, including those holding positions in the government and the parliament, continue to assert that the UDD had no armed elements at the time of the 2010 events."

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Not even the UDD and some say they are violent.

Armed element from red shirts side. April 2010

15 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You do know that not all UDD support PT and they oppose the amnesty for Thaksin. You should read more not just opinion of the like minded posters in this forum. 

UDD was not agree with amnesty because this amnesty cover Abishit too 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Red-shirts-not-against-amnesty-for-Thaksin-but-opp-30217692.html

1 minute ago, LannaGuy said:

Disgraceful lies!  people were cowering there to avoid being shot by the army who eventually shot a nurse there too.

Lannaguy, Jatuporn was convict for a speech made in 2009 not for 2010 event.

Recheck your source you are so ridicules with your statements

12 minutes ago, webfact said:

 

Reuters :

The Supreme Court found Jatuporn guilty of calling Abhisit a murderer in a speech during the protests, which ended in bloody confrontation between the military and demonstrators in which more than 90 people were killed, most of them civilians.

Reuters needs to recheck its sources. He's speech was made in 2009 not in 2010. 

Quote

Abhisit had filed a case in June 2009, accusing Jatuporn, a leader of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD)

Source The Nation

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

He's laughing in photos, just wait till he's in the nick for a few days

he will be crying to be let out like last time,he's all mouth.

regards worgeordie

He is just happy to find the manly atmosphere of the showers

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The best thing is to igore him and don't waste any time on replies.

 

He will get fed up when he gets no response from anyone.

 

He has been on my ignore list for a while now and the only time I see a post of his is when someone replies to it.

I had hoped (or naivety) to want to educate him.

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Don't understand what you've written here.

???

You so boring with your trolling

6 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Do I have any evidence for my guess?

No - that's why I called it a guess.

 

Funny how you're so touchy over defamation in this instance and then spend all day, every day defaming Thaksin, PTP and the Red Shirt rank and file.

Double standard?

There is a GREAT difference between make affirmation to drive to defamation like you, and REPORT element from from Thai and International news and organisations like HRW. 

3 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

So you'd be an innocent man in jail regretting your support of the dodgy system that convicts on heresay.

 

If there were two visits where a bribe was discussed - why didn't Krairirk record the second conversation?

My guess, he's lying about the whole affair.

 

Former Thai Rak Thai party member gets 3 years in prison for attempt ...

You make a serious charge against a judge sitting in the Supreme Court.....

Do you have any evidence? Why did not you send them to his lawyers? Or did you just make defamation ?

8 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

You'd be singing a different tune if it were you off to jail for two years because a judge has taken anothers word over yours because their occupation "outranks" yours.

But sorry for you I'm not given into corruption like red lovers.

Quote

The Criminal Court said M.R. Krairirk was a well-respected law lecturer and had engaged no dispute with the bribe giver before.

The court said what M.R. Krairirk had testified in the court about the attempted bribery was factual evidence while the attempts of the police officer was considered an act of selfishness, and affected the image of the court which is the last institution where the people can depend on.

Criminal Court Dec,24 2014

32 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

The courts rulings are all based on heresay from ML Krairirk.

No jury would convict.

No impartial judge would convict.

 

To me this whole affair seems to be farcical.

No interest in justice, plenty of interest in politics.

 

Would you like to be convicted based solely upon the word of another?

 

The testimony of a judge with the title of Mom Luang and additional professor of law at TAMMASSAT University has more weight than a corrupt policeman

15 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

It is innocent until proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent.

Anyway, it would be mighty hard to provide evidence of a conversation that never occurred.

 

Would you be happy to be convicted by nothing more the word of another man?

Well : 

Charnchai has recognize to have this conversation : 

Quote

The court said that Col Charnchai's claim that he was joking.....

This did not convince the court. He still tried to corrupt the judges twice.

Quote

The court said that Col Charnchai's claim that he was joking was not reasonable because he went to see ML Krairirk twice during this time period, despite having never previously visited the judge.

30 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Yes, I meant Pojaman.

Everything else stands as is.

The fact is that Charchai has never said that he owed anyone a favour nor has he admitted to attempting to bribe anyone. 

There is no evidence to prove either accusation.

There is the word of one individual - again unsubstantiated by any evidence that events occurred as he says they did.

The court ruled that Charnchai said he owed a favour and wanted 5% - Charnchai himself denies both accusations.

I would not like to be convicted on such flimsy (non-existent) evidence - would you?

like all culprit he denied charges without give evidence too 

9 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

 

 

That's right - in your link Mr CharnChai doesn't say he owed Yingluck a favour, Mr Krairerk puts those words in Mr Charnchais mouth.

 

Where I link YL to this ?????? Where please, reread all my threads about this subject, I quote : 

Quote

He admit he owed favor from convict Potjaman na Pombejra

  Quote

In December 2014, the Criminal Court convicted and sentenced Charnchai to three years in prison without suspension. He took the case to the Appeal Court, which ruled in February last year that Charnchai also said he owed a favour to a Khunying Or and sought a 5% share of the bribe if it was accepted. "Or" is the nickname of Khunying Potjaman Na Pombejra, now the ex-wife of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai Rak Thai founder. 

So that is your evidence that  you claim that all of this trial is a propaganda !!!!

Charnchai has been convict three times in 2013 during the first trial, 2014 during the appeal and 2017 under the supreme court.

All these trials took place in public. Many journalists and onlookers have been witnesses to the statements of some and the other.

Quote

"Despite being a lone eyewitness, the court said Krairerk is trustworthy as he was appointed to an important legal position."

 

A lone witness who should be trusted solely because he was appointed (presumably by the very judges who were assisting in the coup).

 

I certainly wouldn't like to be convicted by the unsupported lone accusations of another - would you?

And so what !

22 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

A fine mixture of heresay, assumptions, rumour, propaganda and slander - well done.

Evidence is of course conspicuous due to its absence.

 

 

Mr Charnchai admit himself to the court he owed favor to convict Pomjaman. 

I jut report facts from great Thai newspaper group like the Nation. not some pseudo newspaper like red propaganda. 

Now like all redshirts you not like to see the true. If you have a bit of intelligence, you would have a little more lean on the subject

now please give us your "evidence" of your claim !!

3 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Guess is all you can do.

Because you have absolutely no evidence.

Another unsubstantiated speculation post.

Now it seems that Mr Charnchai has link with former TRT and Shin familly

Element in charge from the appeal court : 

Quote

The Appeal Court reconsidered evidence from Krairerk, who also said the defendant told him he owed a debt to Potjaman na Pombejra, ex-wife of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Thai Rak Thai leader. Charnchai also asked for a 5-per-cent share of the bribe when received, the judge said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Police-officers-jail-term-reduced-in-Thai-Rak-Thai-30279734.html

He admit he owed favor from convict Potjaman na Pombejra

Quote

In December 2014, the Criminal Court convicted and sentenced Charnchai to three years in prison without suspension. He took the case to the Appeal Court, which ruled in February last year that Charnchai also said he owed a favour to a Khunying Or and sought a 5% share of the bribe if it was accepted. "Or" is the nickname of Khunying Potjaman Na Pombejra, now the ex-wife of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai Rak Thai founder. 
 

Mr Charnchai is a classmate of Somchai Wongsawat (brother in law of fugitive Thaksin) too.

There are many presumptive beams

2 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Guess is all you can do.

Because you have absolutely no evidence.

Another unsubstantiated speculation post.

Oh, poor Boeotian, surely with all these roadside checks he had to amaze a real fortune 

38 minutes ago, robblok said:

I would like to know it too. Plus that i find it strange that they are not looking higher up.. the 30 million has to come from someone.. 

Guess where the money comes from ?

4 hours ago, lamecn said:

What about Google Earth?

Observation satellites are not interfere with aircraft during landing or take off

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/17/drone-came-within-5-metres-of-passenger-jet-at-liverpool-airport

25 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The people should decide; not a coup. And has bad policies, extravagance spending, subsidies and corruption improved? Worse, what recourse has the people or the law provide when there are no avenues for people to voice their opinion and speak out and the amnesty cancel out any lawful ways to bring the injustices to court. Open your eyes. 

Like PTP and is injustice method, open your eyes too Eric. PTP always try to destroyed check of balance by try to pass unconstitutional law to take control of independent agencies and stop probe against them !

NACC probe on YL and her scheme in January 2014 during the caretaker government of Boonsongpaisan (PTP) not under this current government !

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

i hope the court sentences her to a good spanking for her crimes.

 

and i will carry out the sentence.

 

 

Ok, I come to see a Chang for me please

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

It is junta time. They don't snatch power, appoint crony anti corruption agencies, protect themselves with amnesty and use article 44 to seize assets of political enemies for nothing. 

Like other thread, you not understand what happen in Thailand, this is an article give you an analysis of problem in the rice pledging scheme

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/thailand-crisis-in-thai-rice-pledging-scheme/

Only 8% of farmers receive benefit from the scheme (high to moderate-income farmers), poor farmers have not enough plot of land to participate to the scheme (but in the PTP programm all farmers and not for one categories of farmers). 

Quote

 For example, it found that the farmers who would receive the most benefit from the scheme would be high to moderate-income farmers (around 1.185 million households), because they are capable of cultivating considerable amounts of rice for the purpose of selling their product to the government. (Id.) In contrast, low-income farmers possess only the ability to cultivate rice for consumption by their own households. Thus, they would not have enough rice to enter into the rice pledging scheme. (Id.) Furthermore, THAI PBS found that only 8% of farmers would benefit from this scheme. (1 Year: Problems of Rice Pledging Scheme of Yingluck Administration, supra.)

Now she cannot (or not want) to stop corruption and cheating in the scheme, rice from Cambodia and Myanmar were used by thai traders for the scheme.

Quote

 According to a Burmese news outlet, Ye Min Aung, Secretary of the Burmese Rice Merchants Federation, stated that “at the beginning of this year (2013 ), Thai traders started to buy normal rice and broken rice [grains] from Myanmar and transport it across the border. This cross border rice trade is related to the Thai government’s rice scheme. Thai farmers will benefit if they buy cheap Burmese rice and import it into Thailand for this scheme.” (Thai Subsidy Scheme Leads to Burmese Rice Sell-Off, THE IRRAWADDY (July 3, 2013).)

This trial is based on evidences not on your supposed plots. She was negligent in her duty to control and to stop the scheme when she can.

During 2012 to 2014 she receive warms from IMF, scholars and oppositions parties, but she decide to do nothing. In the European countries, this scheme would be scrap immediate for stop loose in states budget.

Quote

• the World Bank (2012): a loss of 1.2 per cent of GDP for the 2012/2013 Program (or based on the Thai GDP at 2013 it equals $11 billion);

• Recently, the Bank’s 2014 East Asia Economic Update quoted an estimate by Thailand’s Ministry of Finance suggesting a loss of 3.8 per cent of GDP (or based on the Thai GDP at 2014 it equals $14.7 billion) (The World Bank 2014).

Quote

This time the attack on a programme that is costing the government billions of dollars a year and adding to worries about the country’s economy is delivered diplomatically, but none the less forcefully, by the International Monetary Fund.

In its annual review of the Thai economy, the IMF said this of an initiative into which the administration of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra has now poured well over $20bn since it was launched in late 2011:

"The staff sees clear merit in replacing the rice pledging scheme with budgetary transfers targeted at low-income agricultural households." (In fact, surveys showed that only High and middle-income farmers were the real The real beneficiaries of this schemes).

Financial Times : Thai rice scheme: IMF ramps up the criticism Nov 12 2013