mancub

It's a positive step....now if only they could come up with a system that doesn't require 2 paper copies of every document conceivable ,each and every time you visit them !

_{... Dr James Moss has proposed a different hypothesis to The Phuket News: that Deet has “beta adrenergic agonist activity”. In layman’s terms, this means that Deet by itself, and See Koon Loy by itself, would not kill.}

_{But the two in combination might ...}

_{So then, Deet would still appear to be involved, ?}

I also found the following a bit interesting ...

An official of Thailand’s Central Forensic Institute, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that she did not know where the reports saying Thai scientists had pinpointed Deet as the cause of death had come from.

“Deet was only one element in the deaths,” she said, but she declined to give further information, adding that the gag order was still in place.

Doesn't appear there was a ever a claim by officials to indicate DEET was the sole cause of death as opposed to a contributing factor or that it didn't interact with something else. If I recall the original reports about DEET were from a reporter who looked at the autopsy findings and may not have fully understood what he was reading.

An anonymous Thai official said ,anonymously.!...............Yep, that just about sums it up !!

It doesn't matter how experienced a rider you may be , nor how correctly you adhere to the Highway Code . Normal rules just do NOT apply here .

How many Thai drivers ,motorcycle or any other vehicle actually check their mirrors , use their indicators or drive with any care or consideration for anyone else ?

This Thai guy is just another high-speed reckless chancer ,like so many others ,an accident waiting to happen . It's tragic that it ended like this , but it could just as easily have been another local he hit with 3 chidren on their bike .

This guy would have been well used to the crazy way people use the roads in this country , he was simply going too fast to react to something he didn't anticipate , or gambled and lost on this occasion.

Get a clue.

I've got a clue that it has never happened to me and I'm careful when checking change. I'm sure it happens - perhaps I've been lucky.

I hope you always check your Tesco receipts ...especially if you've purchased any reduced items or special offers ! I routinely have to go from till to customer service desk to get the refund due ! Also , do you always check the fuel pump readings when you fill up ? I know I do ! .

The clean up day is set for Dec 1 and volunteers meet at the tsunami tower in Ao Nang at 2 h p.m.

I don't agree we Thaninthai to put rubbish bins on the islands. It will further encourage tourists to dump their garbage there, instead of carry it off the islands again and you tourist operators should recommend your customers to do so. Whoever carries stuff to the islands, can also carry the trash back again.

Fair comment , but there are vendors selling food/beverages to tourists visiting the islands ...These vendors do not come back to collect or clean up after them , so better for tourists to have somewhere to dispose of their rubbish responsibly ...especially applies to Asian tourists .

Ao Nang's police chief Khun Ban Innupat has called locals and expats and any other volunteers to join him cleaning up Ao Nang and Hat Nopparathara in commemoration of the 7th cycles birthday of His Majesty the King of Thailand. He will get my full support.

I'd like to offer my full support too, but I've seen these "clean-up" drives far too often. Admittedly this is largest one I've seen, but it's identical in nature to all the ones I've seen before.

It's always as a knee-jerk reaction to some international news story(ies) that garner(s) Krabi or the surrounding area with lots of negative attention. The rape of Ms. Koldijk and the attack on Mr. Cole and Ms. Clifton recently, being the cases here. Compounded by Tourism Minister Silapa-archa making very dangerous comments about rape that has almost definitely intensified the spotlight on the region.

This is probably the most pressure and coercion that the BiB and local government have had in a long time and also from local business owners.

The cosmetic changes Mr Huw mentioned have been a long time coming. They shouldn't come to us as some kind of "sorry" gesture. It should happen anyway. The area gets a lot of money. The fact they rarely use it for improvements to the area unless coerced speak volumes. Understaffed? Hire more policemen. That will mean having to pay people.

The second people stop looking at Ao Nang in the international press, they'll be back in the rong pak sitting on their backsides all day and coming out once an easily preventable accident has already happened (instead of really taking measures to enforce helmet wearing and prevent drunk driving.)

Call me a cynic, but just as with the "Motorcycle Helmet 100% No Excuses March 1 2012 Drive" the wind will be knocked out of the sails the second the media spotlight is turned away from the area. It's always the same.

The amount of times I've wanted to physically stop mothers carrying toddlers on bikes with no protective gear. Sure take your own life into your own hands, but don't force that on a child. Two toddlers were killed near to Raan Faa Tai or "Plastic Shop" opposite Baan Ao Nang School, 2 evenings ago. If local law enforcement actually wanted to eradicate these needless deaths they could. That tells me everything I need to know.

The fact is they're bone idle and I only ever see them patrolling when they've been told off from above, they need to fill the coffers again, or at Songkran, NYE and other such holidays or there is intense negative international attention that isn't abating, as is the case now. This is not their normal modus operandi and if you posit otherwise, you can't live here.

It's money-motivated. They don't care that Ao Nang is a turning into a tip, they care that their profits are being affected. That much is abundantly clear to me.

I'm being extremely cynical, I know, but it's with very good reason.

If this attitude is permanently maintained, I will retract what I have said at a later date, but I think the majority of you know that it isn't going to be the case.

Yes, I've seen them in the tuk-tuk on the front which they have commandeered from Immigration, moving on people carriers. I haven't seen them doing much else.

Excellent post and I fully agree with everything you've commented on .

I'd imagine that a " renewal " based on marriage would not incur as paperwork on behalf of Immigration , as I'd hope they'd have all relevant details on record , so they should't be so reluctant to help ?

Can anyone confirm this ? I know ,of course, that I will still have to submit all the completed forms .

I'm sorry, but who comes up with these "it may have been" speculations? This has to be the most imaginative one yet.

Regardless, sad way to go if true.

Your remark is ridiculous. The report shows just the opposite, i.e. it's not a "may have been" case, but a quite obvious case of hari-kiri. It's only "imaginative" to those who know nothing about hari-kiri.

Err ....just like it is " a quite obvious case of having been pick-pocketed " ,I suppose then in your book ?

Sorry , but to me it's seems a bizarre report on a bizarre , but sad , incident .

Tip 200 bt ....and your'e not a Cheap Charlie....

- Only tip 100 bt next time......and you'll suddenly find you've become one !

What amazes me most , is that they don't exactly do alot of excercise to burn off what they consume either !

Just goes to show that a regular Thai girl with a regular job can also capture the Farang jackpot ! Good luck to them both ,I say !

Looks like the Krabi police have released pictures of the rapist and victim. Public relations trumps police investigations any time in the Magic Kingdom. While this may work in Thailand, the audience is in europe and the world and they might find this new video freakingly abhorently ugly.

Major faceloss for the Boys in Brown

One cannot condone mob rule and then criticize it if people do what the mob wants.

Where and how did " mob rule " become such a part of this thread for you ?

At the point where (almost) everybody agreed that the guy is guilty and the father's video should be published everywhere "to demand justice". I understand from postings here that the video is now going around in Dutch web-boards as well. I find that really sad.

Maybe I'm the only left here who thinks that "innocent until proven guilty" is an unalienable right - if, and only if, you think that democracy needs rule of law, and fair trials. What I read in this thread resembles Lynch-style "justice" more than anything else. The mob wants to rule.

The "boys in brown", as you call them, have given in to the pressure and released information that they usually wouldn't, in order to calm the mob down. Why do you criticize that? Isn't that what you wanted, more information so that you can judge the defendant before any real judge has the chance?

You blame the Thai cops for following Thai law, and when they give in and follow what you demand, you criticize them again. ("You" being the generic term, not you personally.)

Yes, the defendant may be guilty. "May" is the operative word here. He is innocent until is has been proven that he is guilty. In my book, at least. Apparently not in yours.

I certainly have never declared that he is guilty ..and I believe that only one poster openly did.

Personally , I only wish to see a fair trial , where evidence is not lost or tampered with and no bribe money is offered nor accepted ,and a fair verdict returned ...in a timely manner ! Not too much to ask for in a democratic society .....

Curious, anyone know how much this guys bail was?

I'm curious to know what criteria it would be based on....financial status ,abitity to pay or proportionate to the alleged charges -or a combination of all + a few others . Can the police ask for a high figure to be posted ,or is it solely at the disgression of the courts ? The figure given in the case of the 93yr old Farang alleged paedophile in CM recently was quoted at 400,000 bt .

At my wifes house there is only running water at certain hours of the day when there is water there is not enough pressure for a normal shower. To shower you get a bucket of water from the big clay pot and pour it over your head. I get my wife to boil me some water in a big pot so I don't have to use just the cold water.

For shaving I use shaving gel.

Have done the same myself many a time.Although i would only add the hot water on a night time because cool/cold water can be very refreshing morning time and during the hot parts of the day.

Re.shaving am sure Dave is on a wind up there but if not then it's the old bucket of water,gel/foam and a razor.If there isn't a mirror in your bathroom then you could do what I used to do and that was grab one from the nearest motorbike.(maybe you could pack a mirror in your bag to be safe).

Shaggy

David doesn't do wind ups ! Mind you ,268 posts later, at least he will have gleaned sufficient info to enable himself to sh*t and shave .

The non-stick frying pan was the best suggestion in my book !

Looks like the Krabi police have released pictures of the rapist and victim. Public relations trumps police investigations any time in the Magic Kingdom. While this may work in Thailand, the audience is in europe and the world and they might find this new video freakingly abhorently ugly.

Major faceloss for the Boys in Brown

One cannot condone mob rule and then criticize it if people do what the mob wants.

Where and how did " mob rule " become such a part of this thread for you ?

Good video, its sad that youtube now brings more justice in Thailand than the BIB

No it does not bring justice. Justice is when a court reaches a verdict, not when many people listen to only one side.

And many a court in many a land has reached a verdict that was unjust ! How many people have been wrongly incarcerated ..how many have court decisions have been influenced by things other than the facts ?

There is Justice per se , as determined by a court of law ....and there is the personal heart-felt justice being asked for by a father who believes that his daughter was beaten and raped .

You are eager to dismiss parts of the reported story as "hearsay " , yet you seem prepared to readily accept that it was 3 am ,she was very drunk and went with a complete stranger ?

It's hard to keep a an objective view ....personally I doubt this girl ( or many others ) would want to go through all this public drama if she didn't feel it necessary. I may be wrong and it may all turn out to be a publicity stunt ....but I ,personally ,subjective or one-sided if you like ,seriously doubt it .

The the first part of your posting: Do you really believe mob rule is the answer?

To the second part: No, I didn't dismiss anything or classified it as hearsay. I said that we have not heard the other side of the story. Or would you deny that the discussion here is biased?

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding mob rule ???

As for bias ....based on what ? If 99 people air their opinion that the Earth is round ,based on their experience ,and only 3 defend it as flat , based on theirs , that only shows that the vast majority that voiced an interest believe it to be round !!

Unless somehow acting in self defence ,there can be absolutely no excuse . Hope there's a swift trial , the penalty fits the crime and no monies are exchanged to pervert the course of justice !

Good video, its sad that youtube now brings more justice in Thailand than the BIB

No it does not bring justice. Justice is when a court reaches a verdict, not when many people listen to only one side.

And many a court in many a land has reached a verdict that was unjust ! How many people have been wrongly incarcerated ..how many have court decisions have been influenced by things other than the facts ?

There is Justice per se , as determined by a court of law ....and there is the personal heart-felt justice being asked for by a father who believes that his daughter was beaten and raped .

You are eager to dismiss parts of the reported story as "hearsay " , yet you seem prepared to readily accept that it was 3 am ,she was very drunk and went with a complete stranger ?

It's hard to keep a an objective view ....personally I doubt this girl ( or many others ) would want to go through all this public drama if she didn't feel it necessary. I may be wrong and it may all turn out to be a publicity stunt ....but I ,personally ,subjective or one-sided if you like ,seriously doubt it .

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Rule-of-law is a cornerstone of democracy.

I hope you are not suggesting to not wait for the judge's decision and incite violence against somebody who has not been proven guilty.

I don't believe I,m suggesting or inciting anything of the kind....I'm merely expressing an opinion ...freedom of which being another cornerstone of Democracy .

Thanks for your clarification. I was worried for a moment there.

No cause for alarm ...my point being that local crimes are frequently dealt with by the locals ,in the local way ....police ,lawyers and the court just don't figure . Consensus among the Thai people I know being that if a Thai guy's 19yr old battered girlfiend told him that she had been raped , then he wouldn't bother to ask too many questions ....he would feel compelled to address this loss of face , probably with the help of a few friends .

I am in no way condoning such action ...just telling it as it is .

For a foreigner to act in similar fashion here ,one would have to have suicidal tendencies . Foreigners need to go through the correct channels ...paying the police etc etc and being subjected to the circus that it always turns into . Hence the anger ,borne out of frustration with the system !

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

Rule-of-law is a cornerstone of democracy.

I hope you are not suggesting to not wait for the judge's decision and incite violence against somebody who has not been proven guilty.

I don't believe I,m suggesting or inciting anything of the kind....I'm merely expressing an opinion ...freedom of which being another cornerstone of Democracy .

A lot of people could be jealous. I put my kids into a bilingual program at a well know private school that has about 30 schools in Thailand. The teachers there, if they had been there for a few years were all on 50,000 + a month. With work on the side a lot of them were on 60-70 a month. That is probably more than a lot of retirees get. To get the proper retirement visa you have to have 65,000 a month. Many people stat just on a marriage visa or by showing a lump sum in the bank. Teachers in an international school could be on 150+ with full benefits

Sent from my GT-P1000T using Thaivisa Connect App

I seriously don't believe that any negativity, as queried by the OP , is borne out of jealousy . Not too many retirees here would envy some-one having to work that hard or long for the average salary obtainable by the average teacher .

The business of the girl's injuries allegedly being caused by involvment in a motorcycle accident seems to have conveniently been sidelined . Presumably because it was a the best lie that he ( they) could come up with at the time ?

These things seem to get over-looked or subsequently deemed in-admissiable once the case gets to court .

Was just thinking, there's a really neat temple in Krabi Town that sits on top of a rock outcrop, it's a fairly arduous climb up all the steps but it's worth it, be careful around the monkeys in the temple below, they are mischevious and can spot a tourist carrying food a mile away. - Temple is near the Big C as I recall.

It's called wat tham seua, the tiger temple, though there aren't any tigers there.

Got rid of most of the monkeys also.....well worth a visit , even if you don't fancy the full climb , there's a forest walk as part of the complex that has a couple of hundred steps , but is interesting in it's own right . It's all free as well ...about 5kms out the town centre . All the same tours are available from Krabi town as from Ao Nang...I strongly advise against going to the Emerald Pool though ...totally over-rated unless you're lucky enough to have it to yourself ...sadly you'll more likely find 3000 other people there ...and it's not a big pool !

Ao Nang is certainly more expensive , but not so much as to make it a real issue ,on a short holiday . Also a much wider range of accomodation available .

MANCUB: Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

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As a tourist/resident of Ao-Nang for 25yrs I would agree with most of what you write.

The Thai is accused of rape and allowed bail,this is usual in most places around the world,remember the case of the Australian girl in Phuket who falsely accused a Thai of raping here.I myself was in Krabi court earlier this year and witnessed a Thai man who was charged with raping a Thai girl,being granted bail.As for the supposedly confession to the Thai police in Krabi, don't put to much weight on that.What is very interesting is the report from the rescue service and from the doctor who examined the girl,these reports lead me to believe the Thai is guilty as charged,but I don't know for sure,this is up to the court to decide.

As for the actions of the Krabi police,can I say for once they seem to have done a good job,my worry is what may happen in Krabi court.

1/ He is found correctly innocent.

2/ He is found innocent,maybe because of the known corruption in Krabi court.

3/ He is found guilty,sentenced and serves his time.

4/ He is found guilty,appeals and is granted further bail,the appeal then stretches on for a few years,and then when the case fades from the media/public memory, he wins and is quietly released.

Take your pick.

Regarding the Thai official who said/insinuated that the Dutch girl was at fault because she agreed to sharing a meal and drinks with the Thai,maybe he has a young daughter, perhaps he could invite the Dutch father to take his daughter out for a meal and drink,and if the same thing happened,I wonder what his response would be.

Dont forget it took a month for this rapist to be found after he was identified and his sister tried to buy the victim off. Doesnt sound like the actions of an inocent man.

Very valid points ...and indeed easily forgotten given the way the Authorities like to prolong proceedings and issue ever changing ,often conflicting ,sometimes baffling statements which only seem to cloud the issue. Similarities to the tragic story of the Canadian sisters on Phi Phi .

Also prompted me to look up the original report -Krabi forum 24 Sep -Krabi Tour Guide Denies Charges Of Sexually Assaulting A Dutch Tourist ,

which states that the events took place in July ...so nearly 4 months on already !!!

One more question ...

Usually I 'wet shave' with a razor in the shower, but that won't be an option here.

How do you guys do it?

Particularly interested in hearing responses from guys who used do to what I did ... but now do something else for local conditions.

Yeah I shave in their "shower", no problem there. While your tipping buckets of water over yourself, not to hard.

Or suppose theres always buy an electric razor.

If you've got water...........can you not then ,err ,by implication wet shave ? Please don't take this in any other way than tongue-in-cheek....but I'm beginning to wonder how you manage to survive in your home country ! You could always just grow a beard for charity ...it is Movember after all !