newermonkey

I think eefoo has come to the most logical conclusion in this story, if there is something logical about it. The fact is that the idea of this roundabout, is not a roundabout, and people coming from Naklua are forced to drive in the opposite direction, if they are going to Beach Road. This same type of road design is everywhere in Thailand, and very dangerous, making a U-turn from the fast lane. Sometime you need to go many km in the wrong directions to get where your going, so people start to learn the "shortcuts". Probably at 4am, this shortcut has been done many times, without an accident. But in this case, a tragic accident, and because a farang was involved, it gets even more coverage. I wonder if the road department ever learns anything from the accidents that happen.

You are correct...

At various times the police block the roundabout half way around with a temporary barrier! when one wants to go from Nakua to Beach Road drivers must change from the right hand lane and cut across to the left and head up to towards Sukhumvit Road then after 100 meters swap to the right hand lane to make a U-Turn to come back to the "thing monument" roundabout so one can continue ahead finally to beach road!!!!

(I guess when tanked up and taking the girls back to the bar after an evening of sex and drugs the Canadian/Lebanese (whatever) man did what every one else does "take the police recommended short cut")

What I am trying to figure out is how are the police are making money from this? is it to ENCOURAGE people from making that lethal short cut (as they themselves do) so they can set up camp on the top of beach road to catch them or catch people as they have an accident violently changing direction from turning right to suddenly turning left, or are they making it illegal to make the U-Turn and catching them on the other side of the road?

Whatever is happening here the police are out to make as many problems as they can to maximize on the licit income.

We all know they have hit the jackpot with this one, don't they now feel any remorse towards the deceased girl or family?

When will they stop there little money making tricks and actually do the real job they are paid to do?

So everyone in Pattaya is an animal that crawled out a sewer? Yes Pattaya is Asia's 24/7/365 holidaying / party destination SO WHAT? Means bars open all day and night and a lot of the patrons drink all through the night or get up early and get drunk. They are on holiday and I did not realise there was a an acceptable time of day to fall off a bar stool?

You have missed the point : 2 people have been left dead here by a "drunk and drugged" up driver.

Thailand has fines for traffic deaths somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 Baht.... So if he has money then that is sorted.For the injured he will have to pay for their ongoing hospital fees - They say it is cheaper to put the car in reverse rather than pay the hospital fees. Most likely he will be given bail then skip the country , with or without his passport.

RIP to those dead and a speedy recovery to the injured.

For those that see this as an opportunity to have a pop at Pattaya people, bogoff back to your Utopian society where there is no crime, everyone is perfect , nobody gets drunk , everyone sits upright on their bar stools , never fall off, all go to bed by 9pm with a cup cocoa.

I guess that you are the type that disliked everybody there so much they had to revisit again and again , probably to see an angelic GF?

Drunk driver causing an accident, how unexpected.

I have been all over the world and a lots of rowdy places. Pattaya was the only place I ever been and saw at 11 AM patrons falling off barstools on a regular basis.

This has to be the Sewer in the world not how it looks like but the people that hang out there.

Its a sort of obstacle in the road and when coming from TukCom going right or to Soi 19 its positioned over to the the left so everyone keeps to the right and just ignores it.

"How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed". I assume you are not familiar with this paticular round about. The Canadian was coming down Naklua road heading toward the round about. When he got to the round about he made a immediate right turn which would take him to the begining of Beach Road and not actually go through the round about. At that point he hit the bhat bus. So it appears he never really entered the round about but tried to take an illegal shortcut around it. It's a big intersection so he could have been going pretty fast at that point.

If you read the original report of this accident you'll find that they said that he avoided the roundabout. That's a pretty clear way to describe what he did.

Yes seems that's what he did and Ive seen police motorcyclists doing exactly that, what hope has this country got in protecting its innocent population if the the police show such contempt towards the law,

i would regard him as lebanese rather than canadian

This document says otherwise and trumps any other document as well as your regard.

Could be, he is a Lebanese Terrorist with a fake Canadian passport?

This roundabout has always been an accident black spot.

Strange how everyone is blaming the Canadian man here, I dint see in the article that he has been convicted (yet), just because he was drunk (although that is meant to be an offense here of course and he will ultimately pay dearly for it) it does not mean he caused the accident though.

This is as far as I know the only real main road roundabout in Pattaya. The Thai drivers are always totally confused when approaching it, with no one knowing who has any right of way.

The law is: "GIVE WAY TO THE TRAFFIC ON YOUR RIGHT WHEN ENTERING THE ROUNDABOUT" if that rule was applied there would be less accidents and perhaps this nasty one could have been avoided.

I would bet money that the taxi "songtaow" was coming from 2nd road and did not give way, or even slow down, the (speeding?) Canadian would have been on taxi,s right side who was probably already making his (perfectly legal) turn to the right to go to Naklua or go streight on down to beach road.

(Of course it would be interesting to know more facts rather than the PDN reporters assumptions)

The city council should install big signs at the approaches to all roundabouts, saying in Thai and English: "GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC ON YOUR RIGHT"

The Pattaya One News quote says he was coming round the roundabout the wrong way "anti clockwise" no amount of "Give Way" will prevent that. You can not turn right to go to beach road you have to go round the roundabout clockwise. Maybe there are others who require a brush up on their driving skills re driving on the left side of the road and roundabouts.

Yes you are right, it seems nothing would have stopped this intoxicated moron, but I have seen many Thais going the "wrong way" around this roundabout and I once spotted a Police man on a motor cycle making the "short cut" at the time I thought of making a citizens arrest but thought better of it!!!

But this roundabout still DOES NEED signage to try and EDUCATE drivers. (and the police)

I don't understand,he couldn't drink and drive in his own country why think it is ok to do it somewhere else. To me that is showing no respect to the law,

And to the people the past away and are injured,

Well... you know farangs seem to be able to always do things better than the Thais (concerning westernized things) and like the Thai people trying to copy the Farangs the farangs also copy the Thais but they do it - more, better, larger, and with more imagination.

All this Canadian was doing was copying what the Thais do all the time - Drinking, Taking Drugs, and driving like an idiot. except he took it all to a much more advanced, higher level with spectacular results!

This roundabout has always been an accident black spot.

Strange how everyone is blaming the Canadian man here, I dint see in the article that he has been convicted (yet), just because he was drunk (although that is meant to be an offense here of course and he will ultimately pay dearly for it) it does not mean he caused the accident though.

This is as far as I know the only real main road roundabout in Pattaya. The Thai drivers are always totally confused when approaching it, with no one knowing who has any right of way.

The law is: "GIVE WAY TO THE TRAFFIC ON YOUR RIGHT WHEN ENTERING THE ROUNDABOUT" if that rule was applied there would be less accidents and perhaps this nasty one could have been avoided.

I would bet money that the taxi "songtaow" was coming from 2nd road and did not give way, or even slow down, the (speeding?) Canadian would have been on taxi,s right side who was probably already making his (perfectly legal) turn to the right to go to Naklua or go streight on down to beach road.

(Of course it would be interesting to know more facts rather than the PDN reporters assumptions)

The city council should install big signs at the approaches to all roundabouts, saying in Thai and English: "GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC ON YOUR RIGHT"

I am a tad confused with this follow up to these quotes.

It would not be hard for a clever person to get away with it?

But the suspected perpetrator was immediately arrested, how clever is that?

I don't think intelligence or the abundance or lack thereof, has any bearing on it. For all we know his wife may be wracked with remorse. Certainly at the minimum, regret.

To say that they are so clever they can get away with it, is like saying the legal system is so much administered by stupid and unintelligent entities, that it would be simple for the educated to skirt justice.

Hmmmmm.

Maybe, maybe not. But i personally think... maybe not so.

If someone does something bad like this during a "stupid" rage then they will most likely get caught by the very clever local police, not so hard with the knife, body and evidence lying in front of everyone to see, but my question was how many farangs have disposed of their viscous bad mouthed, nagging Thai wife's, you know just like in the movies, carefully planned, body melted in hydrofluoric acid and washed down the clong in a remote spot. Friends and family get told she ran off with her Thai boyfriend and even stole money before leaving! Cunning, cleaver, thought out, technically perfect, forensically untraceable, no evidence, only an intelligent (be it bad) person can do.

Just wondering?

Even though I am being whimsical (you either laugh or cry) I feel very sorry for the victims family, very sorry.

Why do we constantly read about Thai wives killing farang husbands?

I do not recall ever reading about farang husbands killing their Thai wives.

Soon we will read about how HE made HER do it and that her Thai lover was not involved!

Pathetic how violent these sawadees really are!!!

Every now and then there will be an article about a farang killing a Thai woman. Usually those cases are not about a married couple but about a boyfriend or customer. But you are correct, I also cannot recall (but I am sure someone else can) a case where the farang husband killed his Thai wife.

TheWalkingMan

Firstly, RIP for the poor guy and condolences to his family and friends. I remember one case where a New Zealand guy killed his Thai wife in New Zealand. That story made the Thai press. There seems to be quite a number of these types of crimes in Thailand, I wonder how many case are treated as accidental, suicide or covered up.

They probably get away with it because as other people have mentioned they are educated and of course much much more clever, wouldn't be that hard for a clever person to "get away with it"

Do what the Chinese are doing and control the rate. Thais run Thailand, they can do whatever they want.

Okay another crime reported here. That's good, but what I am really interested in is the fate of the alleged perp. Are any of these women ever brought to trial? Do they ever do time? I know the outcome is not as glitzy as reporting the actual crime, but I for one would like to know the whole story.

Would it be that hard for Thai Visa to incorporate/program in to the this site a follow-up or update on strories so we can all see the outcome, because its always like this, some stories are very interesting but no followup as things develop. For instance what happened to that monster Brit in Phuket who murdered the American - is the guy in jail, will he be deported back to Thailand, will he get the death sentence, I am sure many people would appreciate this type of followup?

Its like seeing the seed planted but never see the tree later.

Anyone know his screen name here on ThaiVisa?

Not everyone is on Thai Visa!!!

I believe the train project clash before it even started. Too many corruption is waiting already.

You are so right!

Like many proposed "great" projects in the past, they have all been killed off because of the unmanageable ques of greedy people waiting to get their hands in the cookie jar, added to that this project involves China, one of the most corrupt nations on the planet.

This project will never get rolling!

I am not gay so I do not understand what is with the priestsand little boy stuff is this a circular thing do those who are abused abuse?

Maybe ask the Pope.

Next ...

As his Holiness appears to be temporarily offline from TV perhaps JingThing won't mind an atheist filling in temporarily. let's take a peek at what the professional, peer reviewed literature says.

1)Marie et al in the Archives of Sexual Behavior (2001) state: "One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender".

2) Watkins and Bentovim in the Journal of Child Psychiatry (1992) state: ""boys victimized by older men were over four times more likely to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their sexual victimization experiences."

So to answer the question, it would appear to be a case of "Get some, give some." It underscores, were any underscoring required, that homosexual child rape is anything but the anodyne "intergenerational sex" that much homosexual literature/pornography—and even a certain TV personage—proclaims it to be. Rather, child rape seems to help create the homosexual syndrome, though it is not a necessary condition.

A closing thought from a lesbian columnist writing in a homosexual newspaper (Paula Martinac/the Washington Blade March 15, 2002):" "When some gay men venerate adult-youth sex as affirming while simultaneously declaring 'We're not pedophiles,' they send an inconsistent message to society...The lesbian and gay community will never be successful in fighting the pedophile stereotype until we all stop condoning sex with young people."

"2) Watkins and Bentovim in the Journal of Child Psychiatry (1992) state: “"boys victimized by older men were over four times more likely to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had had such an experience. Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their sexual victimization experiences."

Of course, its obvious, first time you try icecream you dont say yuk horible! I wont do that again! do you?

The person who wrote the threat was probably made mentally unstable by the excess of Gamma radiation received during the long haul flight, I understand Thai inter seem to be susceptible to the radiation!

The name may or may not be related to the content. But again, the name itself hopefully isn't enough to convict anybody for anything. If they have more, I am sure it will come out at trial. It is weird nothing specific about underage stuff (yes they have porn, even legal age porn is illegal here) was mentioned in the press article though. Usually, if they have something, they POUR it on.

I wonder if PDN just spiced up the article and added the "kiddy" part?

totaly agree with you . this site is still running if you connect outside thailand

i just today visit this site and clearly advertise for dekchai little boy

realy choking thai visa moderator advertise this pedo porno internet adress but no more comment..................

I totally agree the site shouldn't be circulated here. However, as it sounds as if you have been to the site, maybe you can comment on exactly what you found there CONTENT WISE. Again, the NAME of the site itself is not a crime.

These kiddie porn operations sadly DO exist, there is no doubt about that. I have been shocked to see their heterosexually oriented products OPENLY DISPLAYED on the DVD stands on Beach Road a number of times, for all the "family" tourists to see. I am talking about the pictures being totally out in the open, not hidden under a desk. Also, the gay kiddie porn stuff is openly pushed in gay areas such as Dongtan Beach. I does bring up the other pervasive issue, how can such things go on for so long without a police/mafia connection? I think the outfit in question is likely a culprit, but again, I hope they have more evidence than a mere NAME of a website and a cop who "believes" something. Not good enough to convict, even in Thailand.

It was not blocked earlier today so perhaps its all over 18 stuff, and there is nothing to see, looks like its only for Thai people to sign up. How do you know whats on the site, did any readers sign up then?

I don't think the name of any web site always describes whats in it. try it : type in "http://youngboy.com" you will puke-up when you see a bunch of elderly porno stars horrible stuff, Nothing to do with boys or young people.

Sadly it is true. Many Thai "boys" pushing 40 and 50 are still sticking with the boy word. Poor dears, there should be a retraining program for such sad cases.

I think there should be an international law drawn up: An adult is when you are over 16 and you cannot call yourself "Boy or Girl" when beyond that age you must call yourself "Man or Woman" (Punishment anyone?)

Although the exceptions would be (acording to the age of concent of those countries) Japan 13, Albania 14, Argentina 13, Spain 13, Korea 13. or the Vatican State where its what ever you can get away with!

Perhaps Thailand should change the law to the age of 30 so not much would need to change.

Some countries have strange laws such as Arab or the big "M" countries, where its all illegal and you will have parts cut off if you get caught, except if: its within the family, the person is pre-pube and the father knows about it.

Funny world of perception aint it?

On the "boys" [and for that matter "Girls"] point it is really very common for the term to be used affectionately or descriptively, in other words not just by those of negotiable virtue. Indeed, it was not that long ago when the French culture minister [Frédéric Mitterrand] was in trouble for using the term in a book about his exploits in Thailand. It does not automatically mean those below the legal age of consent, and should not be taken as such an indicator on its own. This is not a statement about these sites in the specific, but a reference to the generality.

Regards

Edit typo

This is quite true...

If you go to "Boys Town" in pattaya you wont find any "boys" only men over 21yo people tend to call all sex workers boys or girls even though some of them are very very OLD.

Funny thing this age thing, no one wants to get old, no one want to be called old and apparently many "men" seem to like boys! but I don't think that is at all easy even though this is an age old preference going back to the beginning of time.

Sounds like a witch hunt. It's porn, for sure. However, there was no evidence presented about underage stuff, only speculation. I reckon (but don't know of course) that IF they had stronger evidence about the underage aspect of this than they mentioned (using vague language like "believed to be") they would have certainly presented that to the press. It is kind of odd that they publicized the websites though.

No doubt the websites are already blocked,

but this would give some clients time to cover tracks if they can.

Then again they may have the racket sowed up pretty much too.

Sad this whole episode if the child component is proved part of it.

I could care less who has safe sex with whom else,

or if someone wants to see them doing it during or later in video.

But involving children... that is not a line in the sand,

that is a big brick wall, that should fall on anyone doing

such dispicible conduct with children no matter the gender.

No they are not blocked but the latter site has no content, only the Apache info, so it looks like the owner may have deleted the evidence?

Or is PDN making this all up or grossly exaggerating as they have done frequently before?

Help them get driving licences and insurance.

No actually its because the government wants them all registered so it will be harder for them to be sucked into helping rogue political activities. During the Red siege many MC taxi drivers were paid to support the reds.

If they were registered they would be less inclined to do bad deeds as the authorities will hold photos of them on record and it would be easier for the police to identify them if they do wrong.

Many years ago when I was living in Surawong Road I saw "during the General Suchinda coup" - MC taxi riders smashing up traffic lights after curfew the authorities were blaming a mysterious 3rd force.

Of course I think it will lead to a better deal for them as well, because they will legitimately have work and will be able to use that to get hire purchase on new bikes. at the moment most of them have to rely on loan sharks.

The riders will also be able to get insurance that will cover the passenger.

Would that normally be the death sentence if the the 19yo is found guilty ?

Teachers do not whip students over fighting with rival schools. I really do not think that this is the answer.

In some poorer countries, if the children do something wrong, the parents are held accountable. There is some merit to those ideas.

This is also a police and school administration problem. School administrators of "rival" schools need to get together in front of the students of both schools and show them that there is no animosity between the administrators, nor the schools so there should also be no fighting between the students.

elitism, tribalism, patriotism, nationalism, factionalism, politicization, disenfranchisement, testosterone, social & educational values.

=Tragic Results

I would ad to that list: Dumb soap operas, A genuine rejection and disbelieving in Buddhism and its values.

Probably not the same students. BUT, yesterday everyone was whining and crying with shouts of "hang em high" at the teacher that was caning some high school boys. Perhaps if there was more of that caning going on there would be less of this killing going on. This is not the first young child to be killed by high school boys.

I total agree with "ThaiRich" .

The mother was quoted as saying : "My son will not be the last victim to die in similar circumstances. There is no benefit from fighting each other. I want them to stop fighting," Ungsu Khamwong, the boy's mother, said on Thailand's PBS television channel.

I feel so sorry for the boys family, this must be devastating.

The mother said "I want them to stop fighting" but unfortunately its gone way past asking them to stop, This will only encourage the gangs! Also even if they arrest most of the culprits the parents will have the opportunity to pay for their release.

My view is these "gangs" should be made an example of by the police, I think the police should detain all the suspects and some colabouratore and supporters, extract the information and send the guilty ones down for a very long time, This should also be made into a media circus.

Caning should be brought back and applied under supervision of the authorities as it is in Singapore (I am not advocating rouge manic teachers taking the law into their own hands) , you might be horrified but it will save innocent lives.

BTW Gangs in Pattaya are free to do whatever they like and the situation is totally out of control and in part protected by drug dealers, real gangsters and unfortunately the money generated is greedily welcomed by our friends in brown.

Isn't Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya also alleged to be a terrorist?

I think the case in permanently been delayed in court, until the 10 years time limit is up.

Here we go again, K. Rucharee, get your facts right before you type.

- No he hasn't been charged with terrorism

- Just two days ago the police and appropriate authoroties released a progress report in regard to the processing o charges against the PAD members. No it's not permanently delayed.

- Is the time limit 10 years? Are you sure of that? My lawyer doesn't agree with you.

Last week there was movement that hasnt yet come to conclusion on the PAD airport case. Last week or was it the week before there was also movement on another case and an even older one that hasnt come to conclusion yet and that was the attack on Prem's residence back in 2007, which was done by those people who are now red shirts before the airport invasion had ever taken place. I guess if things are going to be done in some order of when they happened rather than by when ready for court or by order of severity that case would come before the airport case and the recent uprising related cases. Court cases take a long time and there are outsatnding ones well beofre the airport invasion that undermine any argeument of permaentlty delyed airport case and poor arsonists suffering form double standards. Hey if we are lucky we may even get movment on the even older shipping Moo case and that would be interesting to say the least. Now if people on bioth sides would stop coming up with their half baked lie filled propagnada pieces we may get somewhere but that is probably too much to ask for.

As for Montengro. It is all about diplomacy and games

I think the reason for judicial delays in this country are caused by corrupt (all or most) officials waiting for a bigger pay off, when the magic figure is reached the case melts away as incriminating evidence is conveniently lost.