XXpate48USA

most heart warming thread. its better than 'a christmas carol' and maybe will save some victims next year. bravo!

Yes, Loz, heartwarming for sure! maybe more like enlightening!! but if this little story helps another FOB naive falang then I suppose it is good. This little lesson all together, I would say cost me close to 800,000baht not to mention the loss of dignity and self image letting this all happen..

I wish most of the storys were on a high note from us falang. It does seem that this is a relatively regular type story of a falangs experience in LOS. I just wish generosity and jai dee were seen for just what it is, and not as stupidity. But on the other hand, it is their learned culture whether it is good or bad is not for me to decide. All I know is my little part and a few from some others. I do realize that many falang/thai marriages are or become happy after settling in for awhile and both try to understand each other and it takes hard work from BOTH.

It's time for me to move along and just try and forget and also rebuild what self respect I lost along this little journey. I don't hold any grudges and understand that is just how it is in the land of Los.

I will point out one thing I am sure about. Thailand as far as living and marrying into a thai/falang marriage and assimilating and have it all work is for only a select few type of people. For the rest of us, a visit or tour would be the best bet as there is quite a difference touring and living in Los.......Merry xmas and thanks for your input, loz.......

jURGEN - Can you speak Thai?

I met my wife in Italy - she was on holiday. However, she spoke fluent English due to a secondary education in England.

My point - she feels very comfortable in Oz or USA as she speaks the language. I feel comfortable in Thailand as I speak Thai fluently. It was torture when I first moved here when I couldn't understand everything that was said around me. How on eath can one integrate into a society if one can't speak the language?

You are lucky! My wife does speak a little and enough for us to communicate and I speak only a few words I have learned Cowpat..<smile> and sawadee krup and khap khun krup and that's the extent of my Thai to date. Yes, I felt very out of place around all her family with them speaking thai and I not being able to talk with them although they tried(a little) She pretty much left me by myself while she ran around doing this or that which I thought was a little rude on her part not staying close to help me communicate. She also slammed be a couple times in thai in front of her brother and one nephew. It was obvious because she was angry at me because I was trying to explain what was needed for building the room I was paying for etc. I wanted to buy the materials but she seemed insistant on letting her 21 year old nepew go with us to pick up 10 paint brushes and a whole galllon of iol paint for 1(One) small door. Also I paid for a 500baht foor knob which seemed to disapear and no one seems to know what happened to it. ..ya right?..hehe...it got taken back and exchanged in my book. Also, I had to buy the masons tools etc. They were taken and gone after the sloppy job that I was told a bid of 8000baht but ended up 16,000baht. This of course was her nephews friend that did the job. No clean up and job done sloppy and paint all over the floor. I had wanted to do the job myself as I had been building houses in my earlier years and knew what I was doing. How does one room need 10 paint brushes???....pleeez..!!.....talk about getting taken to the cleaners...haha....That was one reason I needed to live in CM anf NOT with her family.......I was basically pushed aside as far as my reccomondations untill time to pay for it all.....hows that for "thank you"?.......ughhh........it does feel hard to integrate with the language barrier for sure......very uncomfortable. ...

Jurgen, sorry mate, my take is that she has decided it's over, you are the last to know, and she is happy to let anyone else have the blame.

Take it on the chin and wish her well.

Jurgen, you are right on the money!!!.........that's what I decided was the right thing to do. Although now I have a legal marriage to deal with.....and I know getting a divorce I would have to return to Thailand. I am not sure what my chances of her getting half of my pension in a thai court. We were married legally at the amphur!! can a thai court hold any water in the usa?? as far as suggesting spousal support??.....I have no plans of ever getting married again!!,,,..ughhhh....naive falang....

^ my gut says have a PI check that she wasn't already married when you got hitched and isn't shacked up with a "brother" while you are away. (Sounds like you need a break away anyway)

apreciate the input, Dogleg, surely! I know for sure she was never legally married since her id card says "miss" and I also know she was married with the thai ceromony way and not legal. I know her X has a new gal and they have split for sure. Although there is one "cousin" that seems to call very frequently and seem all too interested in my wife. I have met him and he seems like a likeable guy but his wife ran off with a falang and now he is single etc. He does stop at her house alot and call alot. It seems most of the so called "cousin's" are men. No lady cousin's seem to call. She says he stops to say hello to her parents....hmmm...they are 80 and could be true, but there ya go, now no one knows what the truth is!!!...at least me

All I know is I had forgiven the fact I was told she had no children before we met and I forgave that fact because I understand Thai culture seems to see women that have had a child or been married and "used goods:" so i did forgive that and was no problem. It's just the fact that the lies never end. I know she has begged me to return for many months now and I have just waited to see if there were going to be anymore lying going on . I like to know what is what and what is true and not true before I take the time and expense to go through it again.

This last excuse to get the extra 5k on top of the 10k I already had sent for the so called "insurance plicy on her brother" which I know is just bunk. I reversed the already money transfer and just haven't answered the phone in two days and have basically given up on this marriage. It is not the easiest thing but with my situation it is the best for sure. As I said before, I am very easy going and willing to help anyone and especially my wife since I did love her and I had done many nice things for her and her family but it is never apreciated it seems. I keep hearing "other falang's take better care and build homes etc. One thing I forgot to mention was this sin sod thing has been mentioned from the very get go and I know that should have been my first red flag. She has already gotten one sin sod before on her last marriage.

I don't hold anything again'st her because I can understand how being poor and always having to find a way to get money could have a way of making you very skillful at lying or making up a story to get what is needed. I guess I was not mean't for living in Thailand as I did come with an open mind and open heart and not for the sex trade etc. Just a new life and new experience. I spent all my time with her as she did with me. But the need always for "yellow gold" and new this or that before we were even settled into a comforatable home is just a little silly. And saying I need to pay her 25,000baht per month when I am with her is a little rediculous in my mind. I don't like feeling like I am paying for a wife. I told her we can share eveything with no problem, but she wants the 25k to spend as she wishes and the bills are mine....ughhh..let's see 25,000baht is $760US. I don't even spend that on myself after bills on a normal basis......gold digger? or normal Thai wife?....considering the avwerage wages in Thailand is about 10kbaht...

I do hate to cut her off right before Christmas and let her find her way , but she does have her family and brothers, parents and cousins all around her. Not to mention the one brother that owes me for the loan, she told me she had to borrrow from him the other day......WHAT??.....why did she have to borrow from a guy that owes us/me 13,000baht?? that was supposed to be paid back in 7 days? so I think it is best to do as most would do and cut my losses and move on.....sad story and hard to do but yes, that's the right thing to do now! No one can have a happy marriage when everything is one sided and no trust what so ever.If she can't come to the usa to be with me even for half the time then what's the problem?....of course she says she will, but doing it is another story........................and yes, I do need the break!!!.................thanks again for the input!!:jap:

I figure most Western men support their MIL's whether they realize it or not. I hear all these guys bragging that they don't pay a cent while their in-laws collect bottles for cash, then they turn around and talk about how they spend 25,000 baht a month minimum... and they're 'Cheap Charlie's', too. The math makes no sense.

Hardie is right!!

Here's how it works: you give your wife the agreed upon baht per month and then all of a sudden there is a new (never heard before bill) that is now overdue. This extra money is then distributed to the seeker MIL FIL or brother or sister. My advice is always get the contract for whatever this new overdue bill is rather than just turn over the baht to let you wife pay it. You bet a satang to a dollar that there is no other bill or contract. This is how the MIL gets her part of the pot of cash. (don't you feel good now)..

Yesterday, my story was she needed an extra 25,000baht for the yearly life insurance she has on her 1 brother(she has 5bro's) I asked for the name of the insurance company but in her words it's "Thai life insurance" I asked for the claim number and account number and promptly told her I would just pay it with my credit card directly to the company. But for some reason she says I can't do that because SHE has to be the one paying it. Hmm....there are ways to deal with the deception but this WILL get her in a huff because you are not doing it her way. But, isn't the bill getting paid by doing it my way with a credit card?......(like there really is an insurance policy)..haha....It's just a loving wife doing what is best. Don't all sisters have a life insurance policy on just one brother out of 5?....and of course I was the benificiary. Boy she sure came up with a good one ..yikes.......back to the point.....yes, most falang husbands are giving the MIL and other family members money, but is just extracted from you on a ficticious different story. If you fall for it , which of course would increase her respect for your intelligence,.,,,,,correct???..haahhh...................................................................................................................... .But I can say we have a very trustworthy and close marriage!!!....right?

Like all things in Thailand, it is difficult to figure out what is going on, what is expected, what is considered stupid, etc, because most Thai people that you ask, will lie, for one reason or another. The very first thing that every foreigner should think is " am I getting told a lie?' And in almost every case, the answer is YES, even though that doesn't help you figure out what the truth is. I think it is generally understood that Thai women often get involved with men, any man, but especially farang men, because they expect to benefit financially. I mean, really, Thai people don't like us farang, they don't understand us, but they are trained from a young age, to agree with people who have more power. What a surprise, you meet a young lady, and she says she doesn't like Thai men, she doesn't even like Thai people, she LOVES farang, and we believe it, because in general, we don't like Thai people or Thai men. Thai people talk together, that is their major sport, hobby, education, and they learn things like Western men tend not to "box them". So then they say to us, that they used to have a Thai man, who "boxed them" and never paid for the kids, and drank too much, and we believe it. It might be true, but what we believe, that they will appreciate and love a man who does not "box" them, who actually pays his bills, who has some ethics and morals, well that just isn't the case! They do not usually think well of you/us, they usually think we are stupid.. And this doesn't have to be a love relationship, can be your maid. You pay more then Thai people do, and expect less work, and don't make her work 7 days a week, and don't wake her up at 10pm to empty your car of the shopping bags, and well we think she will appreciate this nice working atmosphere. But holy cow, she doesn't! She starts making excuses to miss 2 days a week of work, starts cutting down her 7 hour work day to 2 hours, starts washing other people's laundry in your machine, with your soap and water, etc.

Okay, well there seems to be maybe 3 groups of farang men here, 1) they will pay anything, get screwed, pay too much, 2) people who pay almost nothing, but brag about how helpful they are, how they have changed a whole family from utter poverty to the middle class, and they only spent $5 and their brain power to set them up selling "water, ice and cold drinks". They continue for maybe a decade to sleep with the lady, who they claim they don't pay, but taught to fish so they can support all the family. And they feel very good and maybe better then most, how smart they are, to get sex for almost free, and to get to help people out of poverty at the same time, and well a divorce would cost them many thousands of times more, you pay either way, etc ...a la Ian Forbes.

And well my third group, which includes everyone else. I have found that among Thai people, most ladies have land from their family, the man then builds the house, which insures some amount of something, because the man can't take the house off the land. But keep in mind, the lady has contributed. So after the man marries and had 2 or 3 or 6 kids, he can leave, but the house is staying put. Many Thai men seem too cheap, they wouldn't leave their lady if it cost them 5 baht, my GOD, that is a lot of money down the drain!! They just go get another lady and ADD to their life, but they don't just leave.

There seems to be NO situations, that Thai people will turn down money, so if their family member gets a farang, they will try to get money. And it seems to me, that very few Thai people will do a lot for their family, or very much. I think they use their family as an excuse to need money, but if you give your Thai person some big amount of money, let's say you decide to give them 50,000 a month, or more, they will not forward most of that to their family, even their own children living in the village. They will continue to send the bare amount someone can live off, like 2000, and pocket the rest, gamble the rest, do something else with it, I suppose the best thing is if they save it. Maybe the best they do, is build a house, but they consider that their house. And legally it is their house. Just check it out, you know there are ladies making big bucks, but how many Yais are there driving a BMW? None. How many international school are there in the village? None.

Well anyway, most of you farang men have decided to turn in your Feminazi women, and get a Thai lady. The Feminazi paid half the bills, sometimes more then half, did probably all the work, like a Thai lady will do, had an education, can keep up with you, etc. Now you want a rice farmer lady, and you have to pay, it is cheaper then one day of maid service in London, so what is the problem?? If you have a child together, you just have to change every single thing you ever thought about raising children, for example. You just have to ignore it when you find your wife steals money from your wallet. I have found it ridiculously less expensive to live in Thailand, once I started locking ALL money, even 100 baht, in a safe, all day and all night, every day of the year. It is not an accident that ALL Thai furniture has locks on every drawer and every cupboard. In fact I would suggest this, locking up your money, as the first defense against the recession, or the low value of your money. You will be SHOCKED how much less food and everything costs, when there isn't someone picking away at your cash!

If you need a reminder of what life is in Thailand, then I suggest people go visit the local guest house, around mid-day, when all the Western guys are treating their hookers to breakfast. You don't find Japanese guys, Chinese guys, Thai guys, paying for sex, then treating them like girlfriends. You do however, see many Western men, who seem to be confused about the transaction, who are nicer then everyone else. Maybe there is a reason for people to think we are stupid? I think we are generally just nice people, but that is not something that is respected here, so why do it????? The Op's question, how much to pay the MIL??? Do you really think Asian people are asking themselves this question? Do you ever hear about your lady's boyfriend from China who is paying 20K a month, the man from Korea who is paying something, the man from anywhere that is Asia? No, because Asians are used to have prostitution in their world, and don't lose their minds over a girl. You do hear however, about the German guy, the Swedish guy, the UK guy, the American guy ...usually all at once, and they are described as being stupid buffalo, and girls brag about how many ways and times they scammed them out of money ...often the man is sitting right next to them, then they also ask if I know any other farangs who might want them. Personally, I would think it would be embarrassing to admit I was with someone for money, but people here seem to think it is embarrassing to be with anyone, if they are not getting money. The most embarrassing thing, of this whole problem, to me, is the girls and their bragging about how bad they treat their boyfriend/ husband, how NICE the man is to them, and yet how they manage to fuc_k them over in every way a person could possibly think of. At first I thought the ladies were admitting their mistakes, as in "he was so wonderful, and I took advantage and lost him" but NO, it was "he was so nice, so thoughtful, so kind, so generous, he BOUGHT ME this, and that, and this and that ...( a never ending list) and he massaged me, and he took care of the baby, and I didn't have to clean, or have a job, or take care of the baby, and he did all the paperwork, and all the everything work, while I just laid in bed for 2 years, all I did was take yaa-baa, and other drugs, and my nice husband did everything ...and well when I kept threatening to kill him, he decided to go back to his country."

Anyway, it seems best if farang people want to pay a salary, because your lady is no longer working, but just taking care of you ...why don't you just decide how much that is worth to you, give that, and leave her family and all that, up to her? I assume that most of you are paying the lady's living expenses, she isn't paying rent, food, electric, and actually I know men who pay every single dime of the girls' life, then give them a salary of 20,000 baht a month, just to save. I know a guy who has been doing this for 10 years while he works for a 5 star hotel in China, she gets a hotel room to live in, all her food for free, laundry, maid, use of the gym, the pool, she is living like a queen and banking 20K a month, plus extra money for birthdays and holidays, etc. She is a short, chubby, dark girl from Nan, who would have no chance of this life otherwise. Then he buys her tickets to go to Nan and visit her family twice a year, while he whores around in BKK ...paying for that again. What a nice life! For all of you who think you could never have this in your home country, I am not sure. Maybe you could, if you were willing to part with as much money as you end up missing in Thailand, for whatever reasons.

Have any of you tried? Go up to a woman in London, and tell her you want to pay for her entire life, and her family, and see what happens. Tell her you just want to spend a few weeks a year with her, while you go work on an oil rig, or in Iraq, or whatever, and that you will pay for her to go to university, pay for a house in the country, buy her a car, etc, I think you will have more success then you might expect. And I doubt those ladies will be stealing cash out of your wallet, and coming up with sick buffalo stories. And they probably won't already have 3 children "living in the village" with Yai while they whore around BKK.

That's a lot of reading...

I think this is a fair summary of your essay:-

==========================================================================================

Most Thais are liars and will cheat you. They are lazy and will try to get away with less work for more money. They think only of money and have no genuine feelings for their western husbands or friends – in fact they dislike us.

Western men are stupid and easily cheated whoremongers who all complain that they were previously married to “feminatzi”. We all pay 000's of baht to our wives or g/f's who lay in bed all day.

Asian men know how to treat a prostitute and never buy them breakfast.

==========================================================================================

Nice rant, but I think we've heard it all before many, many, times (maybe not in such eloquent terms).

Now where's that yawning emoticon ?

I think the "rant" is not so much a rant but right to the honest point. This person has lived and learned. His explanation is not from a disgruntled falang but is completely right on the money(no joke) This person has lived among the Thai people and has learned a valuable lesson and I'm sure has been duped many times before he came up with his common sense and honesty. It does have a tendancy to make a person quite bitter and disillusioned after awhile! Getting used to being looked at as stupid when in actuality it just "good heart" and jai dee that is seen as stupid. After awhile, you will be saying the same. It is just the "facts the maam" as Joe Friday would say!....live with it or go back home I suppose are the alternatives....it's just the way it is.....in LOS

This topic has come up so many times on T/V it should probably be a frickin' "pinned topic" . It's right up there with the other illustrious, yet seemingly clueless, posters who ask questions like;

"How much salary should I pay my thai gurlfriend?"

"How much sin-sod should I pay for a previously married thai gurl with three children by three different thai guys?"

"How much salary should I pay my gurlfriend's mother?"

Given that there is very little standardization of spelling thai words with roman script, you can spell it however you happen to hear it or how ever you want to. Actually to even ask how to spell any thai word using roman script is just fraught with peril , and will likely lead to 5 foreigners pronouncing the word 5 different ways once you factor in what ever engrish accent is used when speaking.

As has been pointed out by much more learned posters than myself; the thai script bears out that when it's spelled in thai, it IS indeed the thai character for an 'R', (ร) as opposed to the one for an 'L' (ล): ฝรั่ง.

Someone pointed out on a post in the thai language section, that the use of phonemic transcription (for the thick, that's the representation of thai words/sounds in the Latin or Roman alphabet) was originally designed so THAIS could pronounce thai words written in engrish and NOT so foreigners could. That is why words like the new airport's name; สุวรรณภูมิ is spelled like this in engrish; Suvarnabhumi. It has all the thai syllables/characters represented in the english spelling even though some of them are silent, making for a word that is spelled differently in engrish compared to how it's really pronounced in thai.

It is my experience, that it's NOT the use of the word ฝรั่ง but the context in which it is used, that denotes whether it is meant only as a casual observational phrase when encountering a foreigner (especially in areas where foreigners are 'thin on the ground'), as opposed to a term meant to denigrate or put a foreigner down. It seems in places where foreigners tend to congregate the term carries much more of the second meaning than the first one .

Ask a thai and they will freely admit the thai language has more than enough words to denote a 'foreigner' without the need to resort to the use of what I call "the thai 'F' word".

Some of the more neutral ones are;

คนต่างชาติ (khohn^M dtaang^L chaat^F)

คนต่างด้าว (khohn^M dtaang^L daao^F)

ชาวต่างชาติ (chaao^M dtaang^L chaat^F)

ชาวต่างประเทศ (chaao^M dtaang^L bpra^L thaeht^F)

(Guide to pronunciation provided by thai-language dot com)

FWIW: ALL of the above words are completely understood by every thai in this country (even uneducated ones who live in one buffalo villages in Nakhon Nowhere ) as terms which mean; "person from another country".

Now; without further ado, back to the pissing match, already in progress. ...

Think of it this way........"would you like flied lice with your dinner" or "would you like fried rice with your dinner?"

R's and l's are pronounced differntly depending on what area or province or for that matter what country in asia you live.

It refers to a "foriegnor" but usually is aquainted with a westerner white foriegnor.....Aussy, USA, Uk, you know, the ones who are never REALLY welcome except your wallet and have the ATM sign on thier forehead....that's what a falang is.....I usually call my Thai wife falang if she is out of her country...haha...she's doesn't seem to adjust to that word for herself....hmmm.....we are the ones seen as, in thier own description stupid falang's......it is rather derogotory in my opinion, but you have to figure the source....That word has never bothered me and I think Thai people don't mean to be insulting in thier use of the word. It's just that you are a "outsider=falang

Thailand, here I come, again.

Goodluck, again! ......you are trying your luck again?....enjoy!

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and glad to be part of this forum. Hope to learn a lot and enjoy my stay here.

Shirley

_______________________________

Welcome also! are you in Thailand for a tour or to live, work etc.?? is this your first time here?...

you can learn a lot here with many positive posts and many negative posts. One thing I can

reccomend is to have a very open mind!. Don't try to understand too much. If you are a pragmatic and logical thinker, you may have a few problems adjusting to life in LOS. good luck! and welcome. I am also a fairly new member to this forum and most of my posts are just my experiences with a few advices for others. After all we all are here to learn or listen...good luck to you!!

You have about three important questions that need to be answered here:

The first is whether a 20 year old female and a 42 year male can have a successful relationship and the answer to that question is a resounding yes, in my book.

The more important questions, I think are, can you expect to have a lasting relationship with someone whom you've only met on-line, if notes exchanged via the web are the sole basis for you thinking that you've met a good match then I think that's folly.

The third question is, do you really understand what's involved in a relationship between a western male and someone from a very poor country such as the PI. When you combine all three factors, age, poverty and an internet only relationship I think you're into a potentially high risk scenario.

So really this is not about the age difference it's about the other factors involved hence you perhaps need to refocus on them and not just on the age issue.

Also, always remember that you will lastly on the list of importance and if you use your head and think about it, you are there for support and not love(at first anway) if you are verrrry lucky you could find a nice girl but most of the "online meeting" be careful and don't get too invilved until you ALL of what is going on. This is very hard because of the lanuage barrier and also the whole culture difference. It is very hard for a falang to understand why or what is happening.

But the most important thing is to remember you are married to her whole family AND YOU are not the one in control of any decisions that are between you and your new asian wife. This is something that we falang's just are not used to especially if we have been married before to a western woman. Things are more equal in the west believe it or not. In a Thai relationship with a falang you will find yourself being the follower and going along with whatever story your wife tells you and you WILL do it because you don't want to make a problem as thier culture is just that. You will have to live in that culture for many years before you come to understand how and why things are done or said. Throw all you know and have learned out the wondow. This includes honesty, intefrity, charactor and sense of fairness. Just let them all take full advantage of you until you have had enough. Buy a ticket home and learn from your travels or become one of them. Becoming a Thai will never happen! You will always be an "Outsider"and seen as a goon that will supply what is needed. You will have no rights as to owning anything except posibly a condo. After you have had enough of looking over your shoulder and keeping on your toes 24/7 , you will know then. You are not one of them and never will be. You will be told what sounds good to you and never be fully let in on the family discussions and you will have nothing that is private between you and your wife. This is even about very private things that should be known only to you and your wife. This will be known right down to every detail by the whole family. Nothing is sacred and private. ...let me see, hmm i can go on but I think I made my point.....buy the ticket early for falangland. Save yourself a whole lot of heartache and Money....If someone else comes along with more money YOU are dispensable as the family will decide you can be excused now.....good luck to anyone who can do this without becoming ....hmm don't know a word for it.....Brain dead?....or honor dead, disillusioned with everything....

I agree with you up to a point. I don't agree that the OP should just walk away. There are alternatives. For instance, getting his gf out of Thailand again. It just depends on how much she's committed to the relationship. He's said she prefers to stay in Thailand but I'm not sure if he's indicated that it's a deal breaker.

But, the part I agree with you on is that I'm reading this as the parents pretended to accept the OP but did so with the intent on undermining the relationship later (as in now). I have a friend going through something similar. Family is hiso and very well connected and the family does not like him in any way. To the point he's received threats from the father who is a powerful enough guy to carry them out if he felt he was losing the battle. None of their REAL objections to him have anything with how well he does or doesn't fit into the culture. They just don't want their daughter married to a working-class farang. They have a status to keep up and it would be a loss of face for their daughter not to marry some hiso Thai guy (or maybe a uber-rich farang).

I keep telling him that this is never going to work out but he won't listen. I've watched this go on for several years now knowing that in the end she'll eventually have to make a choice and that choice is going to be to honor her parents. Unless the parents cave in (and there are no signs that they will) eventually she's going to have to dump him and do what her parents want. And the longer it has dragged out the more you see him coming to that realization as well. He spends more time drinking when he's not with her, can't seem to drink without getting scarily drunk (as in, waking up on bus benches), etc.

So I can see why you say walk away but I think OP at least has the chance to get her outside of their direct influence again. They might mellow a bit when it becomes obvious they've lost direct control. They might even learn to accept it eventually. But right now, they know they're holding all the cards and there's no reason to give in as long as they can undermine the relationship on a daily basis.

I suspect that the issue is not that the OP fits in or does not fit in but rather the reality of the family pressure his g/f is under.

If the g/f's family are hostile to the relationship, and it seems from what the OP tells us they are, then she would have to be very strong willed and self assured to stand up to the pressures her family are almost certainly putting on her.

Yes mixing as much as you can and absorbing as much of Thai culture is always a good idea, but I know several foreigners living happy married lives in Thailand who make little or no effort to assimilate - and as I've often argued you can't possible start to respect other people and other people's cultures until you respect yourself and your own culture fist.

I'll repeat what I've said before on this subject - Every single time I've heard a Thai person make an accusation of a foreigner's behaviour not being the 'Thai Way' or in some sense contradictory to 'Thai Culture' the root problem has never ever ever been behaviour contradictory to Thai culture or Thai ways.

My advice, cut your losses and move on, you're on a hiding to nothing with the 'best possible outcome' being that you subjugate your own behaviour and needs to what your g/f is telling you is demanded by her interpretation of Thai culture. - In short form, you'll wind up pussy whipped - Don't believe me, look around you.

Call Game Over while you're ahead.

I agree with cutting your losses no matter how hard it may be. I have decided that is best for me. Thai culture is the only one (it seems) that matters. I know we live in thailand but they are married to a decent falang with his own culture to try and ignore as much as he can in order to live omong'st your thai wifes family. My MIL and FIL both are running the show and my decisions are not taken into account even when I am the one paying the bills for the home, food elec etc. I just can't accept it anymore being on the level as the family dog with a "smile" from the family only. My thai wife seems to have a lot more respect for what even her brother wants or needs rather than my needs, which are very small...Privacy , logic, pragmatism with money!....I can't take the being lied to anymore to extract a little more from me while they think I am just a dumb falang willing to give all my finances away in order to better thier lives. I won't let anyone run my life anymore.

If my wife cares and loves me, she will be willing to move to out own home . I have a beautiful comfortable home in USA that is paid for and have everything we need and even travel back to visit often,. Why would I want to live in an uncomfortable home in the country where the most comfortable chair is a hardwood one. I think it is just not worth it anymore. I feel sorry for my wife as she feels the need to help all her brothers even though they are older than her etc.(and working) She is the youngest and the one brother especially keeps at her with asking her for money from me for whatever reason they can come up with......It's just too hard especially not being able to speak thai good yet.....never any privacy and always someone coming or going.....with the father being head cheese. .....it's a tough one, but one that will drive you nuts trying to keep trying to figure out what is going on and what scam is planned for more money.......I'm gone!! and it is just a sad thing that these family members feel the need to squeeze me as much as possible.......just don't know.....

I might ad that bringing my wife to America does not seem to be an option as most scenerio's I read and I have read many and talked with many falang's that have taken thier thai wife back home. It seem the average is they can only stay for 3-4 months before becoming homesick and missing thier family etc. Also you are placing yourself into a very tangly situation as you do have to fill out the affidavit of support which means that if things go bad and does not work out, she can go and get free legal help to take half of your assets and half of everything. Not to mention if she ends up with government help, it is you that will foot the bill/s and lawyer fee and it does seem to happen quite often. I know in the UK many falang's this has happened to and have lost eveything. You better be darn sure your wife is very trustworthy and does loves you SURE. Money is number 1 always remember in Thailand everything is a business deal including marriage. I wish it was different but of course every woman needs security and to feel secure finacially but not by such tactics as coming to your homeland just for a green card. My wife says if she comes to america it is that if she comes she wants to work. I am thinking, it is not to be with me but to gain and work.(that's fine)but I want a wife that would come to America to be with her loved one(husband) should be the reason....am I not right?....I have no problem with my wife working but if this is the only agreement of coming to America, then it does tell you a lot!!

I am the kind of man that would make darn sure my wife was taken care of if something happened to me and she would not have to worry about being broke when I died. I have a decent income and nice home and want both of us to be happy but when money is the number one thing, then I think your marriage is broken even before it started. A husband and wife should be there for each other and take care of each other as it should be. Today my wife told me she needed an extra 5k baht for life insurance. I asked what company is it and who is the person/s insured. She explained she is paying for life insurance for her one brother and she says it is 25k per year and is due now. I asked what company and she said it is Thai and is in Bkk. Her brother is married and why wouldn't it be his wife that would receive or be the benifficiary???? My wife said she is or would get the money if her brother dies. ...Now, why am I paying for her brothers life insurance?.....OR is she paying for a life insurance policy for ME?...ahhh.....I knew this sounds fishy to me and I was never informed of this before etc. I told her well, I can maybe pay it with my credit card and to give me the claim number and company name. Well, I can't seem to get a name or number or any information and she claims that only she can pay it herself.

Now, I know everyone reading this can pretty much get a grip on what is happening here. Since I have not returned to be with her because of the lies and the statement "I die soon" when she is angry, do I feel comfortable going back to be with her and her family?

what a crock or load of manure I am getting. It is pretty clear that I am being duped and conned. I have tried to rationalize any truth in most of these claims(denial) for needing money but I have been sticking my head in the sand even by explaining any of this on this blog. as anyone can see or understand how illogical all of this is. Is there something wrong with me knowing what I am paying for and any details of claim numbers etc. and the contract(supposdly) for a truck loan she borrowed on(she can't drive). I have asked to get a copy of that loan contract too but nothign as of a 10 months........what's your thoughts?......same as mine? why am I hanging in there trying to believe a load of rubbish?.....why don't I just run fast?...........am I not authorized to see any of the legal papers i.e. loan contracts, insurance policys etc. ????....just send the money?...yikes....I know it is all bullS__t and what I don't get is how can someone be that devious as to what it is they need the money for. ...ughhh........any ....are there other falang;s that hear this same type of story's??....

My thoughts are, if I go back to Thailand there is a very good chance I won't be coming back to America. The only way my wife stands to gain is with an insurance policy and an accidental accident of me....We have bought nothing in thailand together and we have no kids together(we are legally married). Would you go back??? or keep sending money to a lady/wife you can not trust?....Has Thailand become so corrupt and needy as to stoop to any level to get money?....my gut says run and run fast......what say you????..

I agree with you up to a point. I don't agree that the OP should just walk away. There are alternatives. For instance, getting his gf out of Thailand again. It just depends on how much she's committed to the relationship. He's said she prefers to stay in Thailand but I'm not sure if he's indicated that it's a deal breaker.

But, the part I agree with you on is that I'm reading this as the parents pretended to accept the OP but did so with the intent on undermining the relationship later (as in now). I have a friend going through something similar. Family is hiso and very well connected and the family does not like him in any way. To the point he's received threats from the father who is a powerful enough guy to carry them out if he felt he was losing the battle. None of their REAL objections to him have anything with how well he does or doesn't fit into the culture. They just don't want their daughter married to a working-class farang. They have a status to keep up and it would be a loss of face for their daughter not to marry some hiso Thai guy (or maybe a uber-rich farang).

I keep telling him that this is never going to work out but he won't listen. I've watched this go on for several years now knowing that in the end she'll eventually have to make a choice and that choice is going to be to honor her parents. Unless the parents cave in (and there are no signs that they will) eventually she's going to have to dump him and do what her parents want. And the longer it has dragged out the more you see him coming to that realization as well. He spends more time drinking when he's not with her, can't seem to drink without getting scarily drunk (as in, waking up on bus benches), etc.

So I can see why you say walk away but I think OP at least has the chance to get her outside of their direct influence again. They might mellow a bit when it becomes obvious they've lost direct control. They might even learn to accept it eventually. But right now, they know they're holding all the cards and there's no reason to give in as long as they can undermine the relationship on a daily basis.

I suspect that the issue is not that the OP fits in or does not fit in but rather the reality of the family pressure his g/f is under.

If the g/f's family are hostile to the relationship, and it seems from what the OP tells us they are, then she would have to be very strong willed and self assured to stand up to the pressures her family are almost certainly putting on her.

Yes mixing as much as you can and absorbing as much of Thai culture is always a good idea, but I know several foreigners living happy married lives in Thailand who make little or no effort to assimilate - and as I've often argued you can't possible start to respect other people and other people's cultures until you respect yourself and your own culture fist.

I'll repeat what I've said before on this subject - Every single time I've heard a Thai person make an accusation of a foreigner's behaviour not being the 'Thai Way' or in some sense contradictory to 'Thai Culture' the root problem has never ever ever been behaviour contradictory to Thai culture or Thai ways.

My advice, cut your losses and move on, you're on a hiding to nothing with the 'best possible outcome' being that you subjugate your own behaviour and needs to what your g/f is telling you is demanded by her interpretation of Thai culture. - In short form, you'll wind up pussy whipped - Don't believe me, look around you.

Call Game Over while you're ahead.

I agree with cutting your losses no matter how hard it may be. I have decided that is best for me. Thai culture is the only one (it seems) that matters. I know we live in thailand but they are married to a decent falang with his own culture to try and ignore as much as he can in iorder to live onmong'st your thai wifes family. My MIL and FIL both are running the show and my decisions are not taken into account even when I am the one paying the bills for the home, food elec etc. I just can't accept it anymore being on the level as the family dog with a "smile" from the family only. My thai wife seems to have a lot more respect for what even her brother wants or needs rather than my needs, which are very small...Privacy etc....I can't take the being lied to anymore to extract a little more from me while they think I am just a dumb falang willing to give all my finances away in order to better thier lives. I won't let anyone run my life anymore. If my wife cares and loves me, she will be willing to move to out own home . Ihave a beautiul comfortable home in USA that is paid for and have everythign we need and even travel back to visit often,. Wh would I want to live in an uncomfortable home in the country where the most comforatable char is a hardwood one. I think it is just not worth it anymore. I feel sorry for my wife as she feels the need to help all her brothers even though they are older than her etc. She is the youngest and one brother especially keeps at her with asking her for money from me for whatever reason they can come up with......It's just too hard esoecially not being able to speak thai good yet.....never any privacy and always someone coming or going.....with the father being head cheese. .....it's a tough one, but one that will drive you nuts trying to keep tying to figure out what is going on and what scam is planned for more money.......I'm gone and it is just a sad thing that these family memember feel the need to squeeze me as much as possible.......just don't know.....

A man died and because he liked a beer, like a lot of westerners do, and because he wasn't as popular as the other residents (maybe even a case of the others ganging up on him and shutting him out).

I detect from the first few posts that a lot of people seem to be rather happy that this guy is dead.

Shocking response, and to call someone who has lost their life, a moron is quite frankly disgraceful behaiviour, and karma does work, even against those who speak ill of the dead.

So quit it with the insensitive comments levelled towards an unfortunate individual. Whatever the TRUE background to the story, you should NEVER speak ill of the dead.

Remember, this story came from the gutter press, as you can clearly tell by the style of writing.

Love your post and you make me laugh so hard especially about the Gutter press. Well I am sorry about this man who died and my heart goes with his family and friends.

Let me interject a little. Most westerners like beer? Not only that, but Thai's Definitly like their singh and chang and hieneken every bit if not more than westerners., I live in Thailand and the usa and I have had to drink beer much more in Thailand as a friendly get together,, wayyyyy more than I ever do in the US. But hey, we all like to enjoy ourslelves...right? I just hate to see it written or stereotyped as only westerners are drinkers......sorry, but I just had to put my 2 cents in....It's everywhere people drink beer.....cheers!!........I just wish falang's didn't have this type of thing hangin over thier heads as just drinbkers and girl chasers....It;'s not that way of most of us. we're just normal the same as anyone and I suppose there has been way too many of the wrong kind of westerners coming to thailand for the wrong reason's. This is where this comes from....Please understand people are just people and there are all kinds from all country's.....personaly I don't drink as much as my thai wifes familys does but I feel a need to join in when the beers are opened.....no ice please.......thanks....sorryif I took that our of context as I only read this one thread(portion)....

I personally don't like the kind that get drunk and beligerent all the time. I am with you on that one!!!....

She has to go back to Thailand to apply for a Settlement Visa.

There should be no difference in waiting times for a fiancee or spouse visa (they are in essence the same).

RAZZ

Al of my research has let me think the K-1 fiance visa is a little quicker than the spousal K-3 but I imagine it is about close to the same, in my opinion! I think most of my research and inquirys have stated 6-8 months.

When you divorce you split up all the assets (that includes all the debts) acquired during the marriage. What either of you had before the marriage is left out of it.

If you divorce at the amphur under mutual consent, you can enter any agreement you make regarding the division of assets.

That goes also for the house, and even for land. Noise is right, Thai courts do grant rights to the foreign husbands. Even if you sign a document at the land office that the land is your wife's only.

Try to get to an arrangement with your wife, as that would make it possible to divorce at the amphur and use a lawyer to put the agreement on paper.

Hello marioo

you seem to be informed as to a thai divorce. I am trying to figure out what my rights are etc. I was married at a local amphur and is "legal" for sure. Now, my question is....If I decide not to take the chance of returning to thailand for an amicable divorce because I have no intentions of getting married again. I married a little too fast and we only lived together for 6 months in Chiang mai. I have been threatened by her and her conversations seems to always turn to money money money. She has a very quick temper and she keeps wanting more money no matter how much I send her. I left Thailand 6 months ago and now she is angry I haven't returned etc., Our conversations on the phone (every day) most times are short and then when money is mentioned she starts this "i don't give her enough etc) I usually send about 15000baht and she stays with her parents in a small village in central Thailand. I was talked into paying for new air conditioners etc and after being with her for the first two months she said she had a truck payment. This truck is not used by her nor me and is used by her brothers and for thier use. She also had told me she did not have any chldren before the marriage but after the amphur visit and legal marriage I confronted her as to who this 16 year old was., She lied and said it was her brothers etc. I said. it is yours, right? and she finally copped out that it was hers and then I had been asked by her brother for a loan which I did. He asked her to ask me and said 7 days he would pay me back etc. That was 9 months ago. I have never seen a satang nor heard of a re-ppayment plan of any sorts but she says he feels bad and will pay it back in about 5 years.......Ok, I understand I think she was the one who said he would pay it back etc. Who knows what the truth is. I would have rather just given it to him to help hhim rather than a lie to get it.

Anyway, things of course are about money etc. Not a normal as we(dalang) think of marriage. I was told by her at first she would live with me anywhere in Thailand and now her story is she will only stay with her parents house (which will be hers later) and wants to fix that home up before we have our own home and of course needs my income to pay for all the remodeling etc and pay for the electric bills from the air conditioners I paid for to help her parents. I also was asked many times for loans from her brothers. I have a decent income and retired young so I am able to live confortable in Thailand and the USA. It is not a big pension but plenty to pay for both and have a little extra. The home in the usa I had planned on eventually selling it after I knew things were going to be good in Thailand with her, but it does not look as though it will work out that way. It is about money and support rather than a happy equal give and take marriage.

Now, I have been threatened when she has her temper tamtrums and uses some pretty vulgar language etc and has even said " I die soon". Ok, it''s not hard to figure out that I don't want to take the chance of going back to end up thrown off a balcony or some accidental thing that she would end up with my inheritance(USA home, assets) I don't think she would really stoop to that sort of thing but "Money" is humber one with her and she needs to find a way to start taking care of this dauighter that is living with a grandmother(fathers mother). She now wants me to live close to the daughter(that she never had) now that has come to light she has one.

I have bent over backwards to try and do my best to help her family considering I also have a home and bills in the usa to pay along with some expensive meds I take. for a slight heart condition. I am only in my late 50's but I feel better living closer to a good hospital but that does not seem important to her. Only making the home nicer where her parents live. I think you can get the point of how happy this marriage would turn out. She is very spoiled and I think she had this idea "all falang are rich" syndrome. That is why she met me on a IM website and we talked for a long time before I came to meet her.

Everything was a lie and I fell for it . She still can not be honest about anything etc. She is angry with me because I am not back to Bkk yet. I would have been back many months ago if I hadn't stumbled upon the dozens of lies. Even as far as asking her where she is staying she can not tell the truth. My feelings are that you can't have a marriage if you can't trust anything you are told.

So, my question to anybody is: If I just don't rerturn to Thailand, what can she do as far as getting support from me since we never bought anything to together in thailand otherthan yellow fold and gifts for her and her family and all my assets, home and pension are from the usa and I had before we met. I am afraid to return because of the many storys I hear and read about falang's and thai familys "taking care" of the falang husband for the inheritance. I'm sure you can understand my fears on this considering the more than once angry statement "I die soon". Also her use of F__you has been said many times to me. I believe she has had other falang relationships that have not worked out or has worked in another proffession at some point in her life. She is 43 and very pretty and very spoiled. .,...Anyway, obvilously this marriage would end up with me broke and maybe even worse in the long run since we are 16 years apart in age and with money being the central point of her talks and that she wants it all her way rather than comprimise livning a couple hours drive from her familys homes. This town has very few falang and no one there speaks english etc.

Now my question is: rather than returning and hiring and attorney for 30-5000baht or taking the chance of trying to get her to go to the anphur to do an amicable divorce. If I just called it quits and never went back to Thailand, can she get any portion of my pension etc. I know she can not get my home or other assets I had before marriage. I just don't want to end up a statistic after the threats she has said. I think the one brother is using her to try and get as much from me as possible while she can. I am about at my wits end trying to decide what to do! Does anyone have any advice for my options without ever having to go back to a final court hearing for a court divorce? Can I just say goodbye and leave it to her to get what she needs done as far as gettting a divorce from me without having to worry about losing half or a portion of my pension?

I basically was tricked and never would have married if I had known the truth about her having a daughter and family to support on top of that and now won't live in a town that is more comfortable for me. I would have married her happily if there has been no lies, even with the daughter. But she just can never tell the truth and is never satified with any amount of money I have sent to help her(every month) out of the goodness of my heart because I understand being poor and broke but it is puting a strain on my finances doing this every month, and knowing that I don't want a wife that can not tell me the truth ever......sooo, if I just stay put in USA and say goodbye. I know I am still legally married and recognized in the usa too and am not worried if I died if she got it. I lost my wife to cancer a few years ago and no other family to leave anything to.

I told her that I liked my privacy etc and wanted to either live in Chiang mai or Bkk and get a condo or nice home there and of course send about 5kbaht each month to help her parents. But this she will not do(she says) I have lost my interest in retiring in Thailand with this experience(I think) I'm not sure but may return one day. I think I just got hooked up a little too fast, but this lady is very good at making you beieve her(at first). She does have some good qualitys at times as long as her money needs are met. This is not my idea of a happy understanding/best friend/love marriage........any input will be apreciated....thanks...

This guy owes this woman half of his finances and he is trying to get out of paying. Guys like this give farang a bad name.

Just curious, why does he owe her half of his pay? isn't this an equal rights era now? How long were they married?

Half his pay?....what the heck.....pleaz....they are getting divorced and a woman is just as equal as a man. Why are you discriminating again't this woman's abilitys?.....to care for herself? as he will do too?...just because she is a female does not make her less than a man?....goodness sakes...........does he get half of her pay too?.....what's with this STILL? in 2010............

can see the 'rescue' (including the 2 slabs of leo in the back of the rescue car) here:

I noticed that oxygen mask sure got his face in a hurry didn't it? That is the first thing that should have been attatched to this man's face as soon as he was out of the room and surely should have been the first after her was put inside the back of the EV.

I don't think leo beer is needed as emergency supplys in the EV's I saw that but surely no Oxygen bottles as with any smoke inhalation situation IS the very first form of Treatment. Not quenching the thirst of the workers that carried out the poor fellow....It looked more like this man needed oxygen first rather than patching up the stab wound....he obviously was suffering from lack of Oxygen and smoke inhalation. Has anyone heard words from this man? did he survive?.....

Go on tell us how you really feel

Well, let's see, I came to Thailand with a complete open mind and lived and experienced many things and places. I came away with a total different view of how things were going to be. Yes, it is a total different culture and one can forgive or at least understand why some of the things happen in Los. It is a poor country and people have become used to a "self survival attitude and I suppose that would be how anyone would get after a life of trying to earn a decent normal living(anyway they can). Thailand has a long way to go before they will understand that life and the culture in general will become a better more enjoyable place when they can understand that "treat others the way you want to be treated" and then it will make a big turn around and things will become more civil and just.

It will take a long time. This is not to say that most Thai people are not good it is to say there is just too much xenophobia and too much greed(it seems to me) This is just "MY" opinion from "my own experinces"and am not trying to put down anyone here. If I grew up fighting for everything to eat or pay for my family's expenses and food I most likely would have the same thinking, I think! It's just a total different way of thinking for us falang.

Sure in our own countrys we have the same type of things going on(even more now days) but not to the extent in LOS. If we find our wife or family has consistantly lied to gain, we would quickly have an opinion as to who we can trust and who we can't and that is understood very fast who is who and what is what. We find ourselves forgiving much more in Thailand that we would in our own countrys. Why? I don't know yet. It doesn't make sense does it? Is it our sense of helping less fortunate? or is it just our loss of understand thai culture? would be forgive the same things at out home country's? I don't think so! Has anyone figured out which system is better or are they both the same just polar different and both good? or both bad?...."just thoughts"

One mistake we falang do in Los it to try and put logic to why or how this happens when we should learn very fast to get the attitude of mai pen rai(don't worry about it) There is too much enphasis on how things look rather than how things really are. FACE? now, that is one that is really hard to quite understand when some thai's will do everything in thier power to lie or cheat you and that is ok as long as they are not put in the spot getting caught and therefore,. "losing face" now, how can one gain face be doing whatever they can even if it is illegal or just flat out lie and gain face? ughhh. It is how it all looks, not how it is!!!! that is what matters most.

We see people who do that as losing face or losing respect if they are caught cheating and lieing. How is it that it is ok to cheat and lie and steal as long as they are not caught and questioned about WHY? Everything in buddhist culture teaches these things are wrong and not to quest for material things but then it seems as though most seem to compete as to what they can show off to the neighbors whether they can afford these things or not. It is more important to "LOOK" as though you have money and success rather than really have it. This yellow gold quest is another thing that has much importance and is more important to have that than worry about the electric bill or maybe save some money for future security etc.

I for one, have a hard time adjusting to the culture that see's lieing as just another form of getting what it is they want. The actual hard part of living in LOS is getting used to the idea of always "being on your toes" as to asking yourself, ok,is this the truth and do they reallty think I am that stupid? ok, I'll just pay it and do it thier way since this is thier way! But after so long and so many times of the prejudices as far as who pays more and who doesn't does have a way of making one feel some bitterness or maybe just frustration. This can and will wear on us after awhile. Then you find yourself lieing to protect you own assetts. Because your assetts are what it is they want. I am not sure yet of anything yet. I have lived and learned in Los for quite some time now. A tour and living in Los are quite different. When you move to LOS, you have to throw everything you know and have learned about being just and ethical out the window and learn a complete new way. To Thai's, this is just life and living. The person with the most or "percieved Most"money will end up paying or being asked for help with many things including ficticious reasons' because you have plenty and it is ok because it is no big deal for you because you are "rich"

My question is, why does it happen so often? When will all falang not be seen as an ATM? When will we be accepted as not being all rich and if they charge you triple prices just because "they think" we are rich and is no big deal? When will Thai people become aware that all falang are not there for sex trade and drinking? When will they quit trying to extort as much as they can from you? When will they understand you are just another human being trying to be a good citizen and have a normal life? When will they understand that maybe we had to save up for our move to Thailand and was not just a whim of the moment and decide to buy a ticket half way around the world at the spir of the minute "because we are rich" When will they realize we have bills to pay back in our own country as well as Thailand? or does that not matter ? I think that does not matter or is not thought about. Yes, to them we have a lot more money but even in Thailand things are not as cheap as most think (especially Bkk) exchange rate is now around 30=1US but it does not work out that way. I would say it is more like 3=1 in BKK anyway. Eating is cheaper but after paying all the overchaerges and visa fee's and helping the "family and cousins and brothers and sisters, what is left? is it worth the price.

My Thai wife can be a sweet as can be one moment and then can be a tigress the next and and explosive temper to boot. You don't dare argue, you won't win even when you are right! Just take it and let her get done with her tantrum and then go on untill the next time. You won't be able to actually understand why she did this or said that but is just best to let her get done with her tantrum and forget it ever happened. In America woman are no where near as violent tempered (in my experience),.and can use a little logic and

can actually have an intelligent conversation with them.

I am not done telling you how I really feel :rolleyes:but feels good to get some of it off my chest...hehe....As I said before, this just "MY" expericnces and is in no way judging Thai people or why or how it is. I have not given up on living in Thailand, just am still in the adjusting mode. I suppose wishing that things were a little more honest and forthright about what is really going on and then it could be the paradise that people call "amazing thailand" ....it is definetly not boring!!!..........

Seems that my wife (Thai) always answers my questions with a question...

what do you want to do ?

reply what do you want to do?

what do you want to eat?

reply .........

and so on,

can us farangs continue in the same way ?

wow, you are lucky! my wife usually asks.....why don't I buy her more yellow gold, or other falang's build new homes, why don't I.

Or I want a new mobile phone OR I need more money and lastly but not leastly "I need more money" and why am I stinky? Even though she gets close to 30,000baht per month for herself to spend(when I am with her) 20,000 when I am gone. I make all the other bills and support my home in the usa. Yesterday the question was....can I send her money for satelite tv(of course for me when I get back to LOS) . I wish my questions were like yours!!!...hmmmm

Well I should perhaps clarify. The way I understood the doctor the coronary angiography and the catheterization / angioplasty are performed as two different interventions. First the angiography is done and evaluated and then as a second intervention the actual angioplasty is performed.

The price quoted for the angiography was 50,000-55,000 baht, the price for the angioplasty 300,000-350,000.

On my way to BPH to get a second opinion there. Next week I'll go to Bangkok, not sure yet exactly which hospital but perhaps someone will add their recommendations.

PS. I forgot to mention that the doctor at Phyrathai pushed very strongly for me to proceed with the angiography immediately right down to suggesting that I could drop dead from a heart attack any minute. The only thing the diagnosis was based on was a little variation on the EKG under stress, all other tests showed everything ok. I don't like that kind of threats, I've lived with this heart for 48 years so far and it was a pure coincidence that this problem was noticed. I'm convinced another couple of days probably don't make much difference. (of course you can always be hit by a bus, I mean there is always some risk but let's get realistic about it).

Hi Phil

everything I had done was done at the time of the angiogram. If they see a blockage that needs opening up they will first, angioplaty with the balloon and then deflate the balloon and then run the stents on the rail already inserted from the angiogram and place them accordingly and then inflate that balloon to expand the stent. Its all done in one prodedure. If they find anything during angiography they fix it then. No reason to wait and go back in again and do the same invasion.

Mine took around 30 minutes at most and I watched right on the tv with the doc too. It's painless mostly, just a little anxious is all during the thing. Todays tech is a lot better than 30 years ago for sure....sometimes they will recommend a (bypass) if something is harder to get at. But most is stinted....just keep a better diet and take the meds....keep the bp down....good luck ....let me know what your second opinion is......hey, it's time to check it out and know rather than stress about it and let it go and possibly end up with heart muscle damage too,....just my thoughts, ....keep me posted...

A CT scan was mentioned by the doctor at BPH but he said that it was only 90% precise and he really would prefer the angio procedure. I don't know, I didn't really push him on it at the time, maybe I should go and ask about this as a intermediate step. As I understand it even the CT scan is half-invasive as you need to get contract fluids injected for the blockage to be viewable on the scan.

Craig, only the full procedure is 300K, if they go in and see there is no need for further treatment the cost is "only" 25K.

For sure. That's why my doc wanted to do the angio after the CT scan. He says it's OK, but doesn't tell everything. I'm gonig to get a second opinion and go from there...I have a horrible history of heart disease in my family!

I think you are wise to get a second opinion on that considering family history. You sound like me, as I lost my father at 53 from heart disease too. Since I turned 53 I figured it was a matter of time and at 57 I had the symtoms and luckily I scrammed to the hospital before I had an actual bad heart attack and luckily there was no muscle damage, just two 95% blocked, stented and I did find out I had an AAA to (absominal aortic aneuriysm)...ughhh....it was only 3.4 cm so is not bad and they don't worry about fixing that until it grows to 5 or 5.5 and that can fixed with a stent also but is not something I look forward to....yikes....dam_n 50's huh....

The stents used to reinforce the blockage area can cost big bucks, especially the drug-eluting ones. If balloon angioplasty is indeed called for and performed watch out!

I am not sure of the cost of the stents themselves. mine were the taxus drug eluding type and they do take about 18 months to fully grow over. This is the reason that you need to take aspitin and plavix for close to 18 months. The Chemo taxol I think is the drug in the coated stents but they do have a better statistic of not ocluding again like the stainless steel ones. They used the Taxus ones on me and I just a couple of months ago I quit taking the plavix after 2.5years (cut in half for 2 months first)just to make sure both had grown over and were covered(my choice) I also did have the main artery angiplasty which was only 30% blocked(not bad) but the doc did that. What was your concern with the angiplasty?....artery splitting?..or what....?....I didn't have a problem but I did feel the balloon inflate with a slight disconfort....but so far so good....

have just asked the wife about this, she said they both have to be there, go to amphur, sign the papers, in and out in 20 minutes. simples !!!

Thanks! knew it was easy to do that way. As I stated obove the threats I have gotten has made me reluctant to go back since she is the only person other than her brothers that I know there and with the straight out lies to get money I just don't feel comfortable being at her home by myself and her family. The only way she could get anything from me(Now) is with the accidental accident. I do believe some of those threats as to "I DIE SOON" was just a spoiled 43 year old angry, spoiled, thai girl(I HOPE). But what would you do? go back and take that chance?...or just sit tight and stay in the USA.

I had just read a thread about lieing and this is one reason that no one (us falang's) can ever know what the truth of anything is once you hear so many lies and have been out and out cheated to get a loan. There was never any intention of paying that back. It was just what her brother had to tell me to get the cash loan. Now he is driving a newer car and supposedly has quit his job according to her. But, I think I just helped him make part of his down payment etc. Has no intentions of giving me a satang back.

The thread I had just read sure hit home talking about the lies. Soon you will never know what is true and what isn't. I don't believe there is a chance in heck of ever having any trust and of course it's just the money and support. I do feel better knowing that I haven't lost half of my income pension foever.

The stupid part of that whole thing is that I have always been a generous person and have always been for the underdog. I never have a problem giving or loaning anything I have as long as I am not just being scammed. I have come to the conclusion that most of us falang are looked at as being stupid and will give help when asked. They think it is stupidity and don't understand it is "heart" and generousity. ...I have to call it quits, but I do feel sad that she can not be forthright and honest about anything. I suppose it's is why so many marriages fail in a thai/falang relationship. It's a tough call for me, but is best to use my head rather than my heart in this situation. The funny part of it all is I would have given anything I had to help out as long as the responsibilitys of the bills and everything was paid first. That does not seem to fit into Thai thinking, at least with her. If I send 20,000baht it is gone fast and if I send only 5000 to help with food etc. then I am called stinky...hehe...who knows, ya can't win either way and as long as any trust is not there, what is left?.....you by yourself half way around the world with a wife(and her family) that is supposed to be a "best friend" as well as wife and love. ...It's just money......very sad.....

Why do thai people always feel a need to lie even when it is nothing that important? I don't get it!....I am not about to spend the rest of my young(or last of my vital years) wondering if I am being lied to about this or that. ....No one can build on that kind of relationship. Nor will I go live with her parents when I am in my late 50's and used to my own home. Nope, just won't and can't do it. There was never a problem helping her parents or visiting often or even living fairly close(we agreed first). But I think as long as we lived close to her family I would be chewed up and spit out and when I am so worn out, and broke, I would be dumped for a newbie......just my gut feeling and I am sticking with it.

I will say it is a hard thing to do to just tell her goodbye and end it like that but. Is a wife supposed to say "F__you" when she is angry?

or demand I live where she says? Is that a man or is that a man that has lost all self respect that could let himself be pushed around and told whatever to get what she wants?

I know even in America I never was talked to like that and I had always thought that thai ladys had some sort of respect for thier husbands and tried hard to please etc. I have always been a fair and not demanding man and always had a lady that treated me much better than that. I never had to look for a womans attention and never had a problem with a woman being interested in me. Why have I let this little Thai lady be that way to me? hmm-they are good at it!!....making you care about them!

I think I have let too much slide by and not taken a tough enough stand and now she thinks that threats will make me get back in line. ,,hmm.....she sure has the wrong idea about me....It was/is a very learning experience for sure. ...well, pay day is close so the phone calls everyday are getting nicer. hehe.......

I will say, I feel bad for her but I think she never got taught how to treat a man and she was the youngest child and only girl out of 6 kids so she was spoiled in a lot of ways. I do believe that her parents used her to go work because she is very beautiful and pretty and see her as as "money maker" whether it be by snagging a falang or whatever means they can get the money and don't think about the concequences of what that pressure has done to her life. I just see too much greed from her mother and father and youngest brother(48) .....In thai culture it is brainwashed into the daughters to do what ever it takes to get the money and send it home. I think she wants to run away but just can't ....it's too ingrained into herself and the culture for her to say NO, I am having my own life......she told me her mother said she was afraid i would sell her if she came to tour in my country usa......what?.....does her mother see her as a commodity?.to sell? my god!....I think yes!!...her mother is 80yrs old.

Why is it her that has to get the car pmt for the truck her whole familyn uses?....is that just a lie?...is it all just a lie?....and the two air conditioners I paid for and had installed are not being used. Why? because I am not there to pay the electric bills and I am sure they will be sold in time because the "old man" does not want to pay the electric bills when using them.

.and I am supposed to go figure all of that out myself without any proof of anything....ughh..... I will say that having a thai wife will drive you nuts trying to figure out what is what...ughh,...

I have asked to see the contract of the car loan....but to this day , nothing to show me. ...why haven't she introduced me to her 16 year old daughter after half a year?....let alone tell her daughter anything etc......she said it would be too tramatic for her daughter to learn she is married to me.....WHAT?.....16 years old?.....can't take in the idea her mother has a new life?......

does all this sound like I am seeking counsel?..haha.....sorry.....I just wanted to get some input from other people who have had similar experiences and some "outside advice" of what I have gotten myself into......thanks for everyone that has replied....I do apreciate it!!!.........:jap:

Hey, buddy...sorry to hear about this. I was at Bumrungrad last year and they found a blockage. They wanted to do an angiogram, but at 300,000 baht, I declined. Especially since the doc said it was not 100% necessary, but just wanted to do it as a precaution and to have a look around. Big money, and I would have to pay for it also.

I thought the hospital was fantastic, expensive, but fantastic. So, I've changed my diet, taking some pills, and hoping for the best.

Please let us know how you progress with this. I am sure I will have to have something done at some point.

P.S. I'm 53, climbed Mt. Kili 2 years ago, and did some very long treks in Nepal 4 years ago. I feel great, but my general checkup showed something unusual during my stress test...then went through everything you did also...no fun....best of luck...

Hello, I was just poking around and reading a bit! I see you had been suggested to do an angiogram etc for a possible blockage so I thought I would reply, I am 59 and just 2 years ago I had the angioram and....One morning I woke and got my coffee as usual at home and then I felt a little bad for some reason. just a little tiny pain in my jaw and next and tiny bit in my arm....I checked my bp and it was 200/110.....I got dressed and drove to the hospital and told them I think I am having a heart attack.....sure enough after getting some blood work for enzymes that show heart muscle lack of oxigen they kept me in icu and put a nitro patch on me and waited until morning....The angio show two 95% blocked in 2 in the (LAD,),,,left anterior decending, This LAD is called the "widow maker" I would suggest getting this done. It is not painful and you are awake the whole time. They insertted two taxus smedicated stents into those two and that was more than two years ago. I doubt very much if I would be here now if I had not known some of the slight symptoms. I take 325mg aspirin per day plus one plavix(blood platelet) thinnner to keep blood clots from forming,. IF you do have a blockage of sorts like I did, then even a small blood clot can break off and then it is a full blown heart attack that can damage the heart muscle.,,,my father was 53 in 1975 and had minor angina for years and did not think it was anything but heatburn....it was damaging his heart over the years to the point he would not survive bypass.....but that was 1975....he died at 53...anyway I just wanted to respond to your post and share my experiences,..,...a heart attack can have very slight symptoms as mine did. But The doctor told me I did the right thing by coming in rather than wait and let it subside.....most heart attacks aren't like on TV,,.,,,get the angiogram but make sure you are in a good heart hosptal and then the dangers involved getting that are very slight.....it's worth knowing!!!....this was one of the reasons I chose to start traveling and seeing some of the world. I ended up in Thailand.....hehe......good luck and I apologize for sticking my 2 cents in but I think you would be smart to get it done....I am 59 and still verticle....just eat better and have a few meds......the 50's suck............I still do most of all I did before that happened.

by the way 300,000 is a bit much in Thailand since my angiogram and two day hosptial stay in the USA was only...about US18,000 so I think if you have insurance you would be ok.....even if you had to pay 18,000US to get it fixed it's worth it.....make pmts....whatever

I would also be interested in what hosptal in Thailand is a good heart hosptial. I lived in Chiang mai and usually went to Chiang mai ram and mccormick hosptial but I am not damiliar with bkk hospitals......thanks..

...good luck.to you..............do it!..:jap:

jonclark writes:

"But lets be honest what sort of clientele is Pattaya looking for? The whole towns economy is based on prostitution and whoring"

-Agree entirely. Plus I wish some people would stop trying to pretend Pattaya is a family holiday place. It is for whores and their customers.

Males coming to Pattaya should learn to control their emotions, not fall in love with the sex workers, and they should also learn to treat most relationships with Thais as what they truly are: business transactions.

Cases like this one or idiots who jump off buildings are usually individuals unable to distinquish love from sex, or are people who are blinded by mis-placed "love" who in a lot of instances will sooner or later end up penniless and desperate.

I also think that someone who sets fire to an apartment-if indeed that is what happened- shows total selfishness and endangers the lives of others in the same way as these "jumpers" risk the lives of pedestrians etc.

My first thoughts, after reading the article was most likely the same as many normal logical thinking people.

I doubt very much that this man stabbed himself and then set his apt. on fire! Period. And the so callled "jumpers" Please people use your heads, they are pushee's while the pusher is a Thai national. Most of these so called suicides(homicides) are never investigated to any depth at all as we all know, Falang's are just that, falang's and of course we falang's are only in Thailand to do harm and have sex...right?...rubbish. I believe many falang or "tourists" as I like to call them at discriminated again'st as soon as they step outside the Suwanagetsumboomi airport. We are seen by Thai's as the same type of falang's that has given that reputation to Thailand.!!....the ones that belong in jail most of the time!

In reality most tourists(falang's) that come to Thailand may just be on a vacation to get away from the norm in thier homeland and for some of lifes experiences. Not for sex trade because they can not find it at thier own home country. It is a new experience and that is all. I think most and I would estimate 85% come to Thailand to see and maybe decide a new life because something has happened to thier life at thier own country(death of a loved one, wife child etc) and NEED a change to make a new life(good life) .

It is sad that we come to have to find these types of prejidices and it is like we are guilty before a jury hears anything.

I know I came to find new friends and good people, not to go to nana or pattaya and to this day I have never been to those spots because I knew what to expect. I wanted to meet and experience "real thai culture" I have met many Thai people from all of Thailand but I can say I don't have a true "Thai friend" that I know thinks of me as a good man and I can trust them explicitly!!. I know I am treated good by most but I do see and feel the inner thoughts of the people I am around. it's like...sawadee and a smile but inside they are saying hmmm how much can I get from him.....not all.....not all....remember please this is just my experience and I know many thai people are good heart and genuine, but just harder to find,..FOR ME!!....

This poor falang, who knows why or where he came from or for what reason, but I would bet my last dollar he did not stab himself nor set his home on fire for this lady....UNLESSS....he was and had been on drugs for a time. I think it was just as 99% of us thought the moment we read the article....my thoughts were....They argued while possible and most likely drinking and a fight ensued and with the tempers of some of the Thai ladys I know, she stabbed him and then set it ablaze trying for enough time to go by as to have no witness before reporting it.

Now, no one seems to know if this lady gained monetarily from this or was it just temper or anger or was her sugar daddy leaving....who knows.....I just know that with the Thai police there is never too much concern if it is JUST a falang that "accidentally" got killed or "acidentally " jumped to his suicide......sure happens alot in Los.....why?....does rice have an effect of growing wings?...hmmm

Personally I can think an easier way of suicide beside splatting on the ground or burning to death.......just my thoughts!!!....inluded with a little LOS living.......

This gentleman may have just come to the end of his rope and life finally got to him because I know living In Thailand can stress you out to no end especially when nothing is ever in your favor even if you are right......It's FACE........I say s++w face and get logical....I Bet many laugh at that word logical, ones who have lived and do live in LOS.......in Thailand?? Logical? There is none, flat period, end of story!!!!!.....it's their way or no way!!.....sorry Mr. falang....please pay at the next booth and the one next to the door when you leave(falang price please)....khap khun krup...:jap: