SteeleJoe

Two and half hours, 90 views and no one has an opinion?

Bummer.

Hypothetically speaking, if someone was travelling to Bali tomorrow and had with them an external hard drive with downloaded movies and such (no porn), is there any chance of a problem with Indonesian customs?

I ask for a friend, of course.

My usual disclaimer (it seems the only questions I ever ask on TVF are always kind of stupid): sorry for the foolish question and I truly appreciate anyone who could take a moment to give me a quick reply.

Shame that your response is so defensive in the first place, frankly. And a little telling, too. And, maybe if you didn't fire off defensive anger before someone finished editing their comment, you wouldn't have to be so upset if they edit their comment

You know why your defensive statements are so illogical? It's staring you in the face. The answer is: With all the people you surely know of, after your 'professional research', which ARE involved with child prositution in Pattaya, why on earth would the authorities and these kids waste their time trying to frame an innocent man? There's no real pedophile there, to accuse instead? Is that your logic? Hmmm. Interesting theories you have. Or possibly, just really defensive and paranoid. Take your pick.

1) I have never suggested that an innocent man was framed.

2) The reason why guilty parties avoid consequences are the same reason why someone, guilty to one degree or another or not at all, might be entrapped and or set-up: corruption (ie money to be made by authorities).

3) I've put forth no theories - about the lack of "real pedophiles" or otherwise. What are you on about?

4) I reply to a comment as I see it. I made the assumption that you would stand by your comments, as I do.

5) Get a thesaurus. Or a real argument. "Defensive" never made sense the first time. It's not making any more sense just by repeating it.

Oh right - I just remembered this time when a 13 and 14 year old from Soi Cowboy got my name and address, after my never having been there with them in the first place, and then they and a whole group of corrupt Thais all came to ruin my life for no reason except how evil they all are. How could that have slipped my mind?

On the not two threads I've looked at today, I see you applying this absurdly illogical reasoning: 'if it hasn't happened to me (after 5 years) it has never happened to anyone'. And 'Farangs must be at fault because Thais are never bad to me.'

I have zero opinion about this case but leaving aside the ridiculousness of the hypothetical in your straw man above, I can assure you that I've seen Farangs do all sorts of evil and/or stupid things and bring trouble on themselves and I've also seen all sorts of evil done to relatively innocent (albeit generally naive, at best) Farangs by Thais. Mind you, I've been here about 5 times longer than you but it didn't take me 5 years to have seen that the is both a dark and light side to Thailand.

Oh, and your comment about Pattaya residents is about as clever as your comment (on another thread) about Thais being unlikely perpetrators of violence: not at all.

I'll bet you're first in line to shame others about their visa status though, right? As always, I will never let some old man on the internet tell me what reality is. I can see it for myself. And btw, it's not that 'all Thais are good to me' - it's that most people are. Underage prostitutes don't have a data base of random strangers. And 99.999% of people are NOT plotting to convict people of child molestation at random. I'm sorry it's that a jolt to your world view. Is it on any level 'possible' that there could be a conspiracy to accuse a wonderful, upstanding husband and father of something horrible just for the sake of doing so? Maybe. And a meteor may hit the planet tomorrow.

And yet....your point is that these 2 children, as well as the authorities, all just picked this man completely at radom, in a massive conspiracy to ruin his life as a fine and upstanding husband and father. That's just how 'evil' Thai people can be, huh? Sounds like the most rational conclusion, yes.

And yet ANOTHER version of your post?

None of the above has anything in any way to do with what I've posted - as can be seen by anyone who can read. You should be embarrassed.

Oh right - I just remembered this time when a 13 and 14 year old from Soi Cowboy got my name and address, after my never having been there with them in the first place, and then they and a whole group of corrupt Thais all came to ruin my life for no reason except how evil they all are. How could that have slipped my mind?

On the not two threads I've looked at today, I see you applying this absurdly illogical reasoning: 'if it hasn't happened to me (after 5 years) it has never happened to anyone'. And 'Farangs must be at fault because Thais are never bad to me.'

I have zero opinion about this case but leaving aside the ridiculousness of the hypothetical in your straw man above, I can assure you that I've seen Farangs do all sorts of evil and/or stupid things and bring trouble on themselves and I've also seen all sorts of evil done to relatively innocent (albeit generally naive, at best) Farangs by Thais. Mind you, I've been here about 5 times longer than you but it didn't take me 5 years to have seen that the is both a dark and light side to Thailand.

Oh, and your comment about Pattaya residents is about as clever as your comment (on another thread) about Thais being unlikely perpetrators of violence: not at all.

Excuses, excuses, huh? I'll bet you're first in line to shame others about their visa status though, as a true 'legitimate old timer', right? As always, I will never let some old man on the internet tell me what reality is. I can see it for myself.

And yet....of course, 2 children and the authorities just picked a man at random, and he's a fine an upstanding citizen. And I am to believe that, because you've lived in Thailand for 25 years, and are defensive about the world's biggest sex tourism city. Sounds rational to me - I stand corrected.

You changed your post again so here's another reply...

Your straw man is pointless and rather pathetic. I have clearly stated I have no opinion about this case and I certainly in no way stated or implied anything close to the absurdity you've imagined.

Are you to believe that? Apparently. Is there any cause to? None. Having written on and/or professionally researched the Thai sex industry (for other authors/scholars) quite a bit, I have neither the motivation nor the interest in being "defensive" about it. Your inference that living in Thailand for a long time suggests that one must be in favor of the sex industry - well, not only is that ignorant and insulting but it reflects poorly on you in more ways than one.

Shame you aren't able to actually debate instead of make ridiculous assumptions and ad hominem attacks. But if one posts on this forum, one will always have to read a few like you before finding those who can post something worthwhile.

Oh right - I just remembered this time when a 13 and 14 year old from Soi Cowboy got my name and address, after my never having been there with them in the first place, and then they and a whole group of corrupt Thais all came to ruin my life for no reason except how evil they all are. How could that have slipped my mind?

On the not two threads I've looked at today, I see you applying this absurdly illogical reasoning: 'if it hasn't happened to me (after 5 years) it has never happened to anyone'. And 'Farangs must be at fault because Thais are never bad to me.'

I have zero opinion about this case but leaving aside the ridiculousness of the hypothetical in your straw man above, I can assure you that I've seen Farangs do all sorts of evil and/or stupid things and bring trouble on themselves and I've also seen all sorts of evil done to relatively innocent (albeit generally naive, at best) Farangs by Thais. Mind you, I've been here about 5 times longer than you but it didn't take me 5 years to have seen that the is both a dark and light side to Thailand.

Oh, and your comment about Pattaya residents is about as clever as your comment (on another thread) about Thais being unlikely perpetrators of violence: not at all.

Excuses, excuses, huh? I'll bet you're first in line to shame others about their visa status though, as a true 'legitimate old timer', right? As always, I will never let some old man on the internet tell me what reality is. I can see it for myself.

Excuse? For what?

Why would I care about anyone's visa? In fact, there are posts on this forum where I've criticized others for that very thing you describe. That was a remarkably odd and stupid assumption to make.

What can you see for yourself?

I see you changed your comment but I'm 51. So what?

Oh right - I just remembered this time when a 13 and 14 year old from Soi Cowboy got my name and address, after my never having been there with them in the first place, and then they and a whole group of corrupt Thais all came to ruin my life for no reason except how evil they all are. How could that have slipped my mind?

On the not two threads I've looked at today, I see you applying this absurdly illogical reasoning: 'if it hasn't happened to me (after 5 years) it has never happened to anyone'. And 'Farangs must be at fault because Thais are never bad to me.'

I have zero opinion about this case but leaving aside the ridiculousness of the hypothetical in your straw man above, I can assure you that I've seen Farangs do all sorts of evil and/or stupid things and bring trouble on themselves and I've also seen all sorts of evil done to relatively innocent (albeit generally naive, at best) Farangs by Thais. Mind you, I've been here about 5 times longer than you but it didn't take me 5 years to have seen that the is both a dark and light side to Thailand.

Oh, and your comment about Pattaya residents is about as clever as your comment (on another thread) about Thais being unlikely perpetrators of violence: not at all.

People who don't understand what significance, if any, the suspects being in Udon had, need to know that he lived and worked on Rama II road, in Thon Buri - whe he'd lived since before the murder - until shortly after being initially questioned by the police.

As for the suicide attempts. People under stress may include those with mental/emotional problems or substance abuse histories. Innocent people can attempt suicide when arrested or accused of a wrongdoing.

A case in point was in 1996 an American Navy Admiral accused of wearing combat decorations that he was not entitled to wear. He was so distressed and humiliated that he took his own life. An investigation later revealed that he was entitled to wear the decorations. The reporter that broke the story, without thoroughly checking the facts, bears some degree of responsibility for the results of his poor journalism.

Adm. Jeremy M. Boorda was NOT entitled to wear the "v" on those decorations. It was however, considered by many knowledgable folks as a minor and forgivable oversight and his suicide was seen as an odd reaction - as in virtually any case of suicide, surely there had to be underlying issues.

You perhaps need to "thoroughly check out the facts".

Most grateful to anyone who might be able to help ASAP (Id really rather not be taking someone to the transport office tomorrow): If an initial one year license is expired, how much time has the driver got to go for the 5 year license? Is it still the case that he/she has one full year in which to do it without having to do all the driving and/or written test again?

Many thanks in advance for posters kind enough to respond to such a boring question with some urgency...

The boy is getting an X Box for Christmas (obviously a day late): had been set to buy one at a nearby mall but have been told that I should go to "Klong Thom" (not sure about transliteration) because I would likely save a bit and they tended to throw in some extras...

I was rushed at the time and didn't get details and all I know is "Klong Thom" but nothing more specific. I also know virtually nothing about consoles and such.

Any clues as to where exactly I'm going? Any advice or warnings on buying said gear?

As always, I am genuinely grateful for people who can take the time to offer anything constructive and I thank you in advance...

Thais don't call it a "blow job".

Fairy tale.

Wasn't me that used an analogy.

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

I think this deserves the "worst analogy of thread" award.

do you know the one about "my cat has 4 legs"?

Your cat must be a dog!

Read also News sources which cannot mentioned here and cannot Copy and Paste out from here, my posting just got delayed for that reason.

Google please.

He followed him out !

He had that weapon on him, a sharpened "steel rod" a widely used weapon in TH.

Fear of his life? Look the photos of the killer, he is not a Thai mouse, can survive if another body is on him for a bit of time, if that was in that way.

Just read an article in the other paper. It didn't say that the band followed them out - quite the contrary. It didn't say he had the weapon on him. (Both of which may be true, for all I know).

Perhaps you read a different article?

Steele Joe,

offer the Thais to be their lawyer, I believe the brother and put you on my ignore list, I tired of you, sent you a PM with LINK.

The US man was by the way a well known business man.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/31/thailand-american-killed-karaoke/2606371/

"Bobby Ray Carter owned LED Cool Lights, an LED lighting manufacturers with offices in Dallas and China. He was a Dallas native and former executive with UPS, CBS DFW-TV said."

http://www.ledcoollights.com/

I have dealt with more than my fair share of intoxicated people. People from all backgrounds, business people, professionals, labourers you name it. Most very civilised decent people until they get the turps into them and then they change.

The victim may have been a successful business man and a good person. What I am saying is with some people booze creates Jekyll and Hyde

Truth.

I spent a few years running bars but even if I hadn't, I could vouch for the fact that otherwise very nice and sensible people can become the exact opposite under the influence of alcohol.

I have no way of knowing whether that is true of the deceased.

As for the killer; I don't know if he followed him out (the report doesn't say that), if he had a weapon (the report doesn't say that), or if the weapon was used out of fear for his life (as he claims).

Read also News sources which cannot mentioned here and cannot Copy and Paste out from here, my posting just got delayed for that reason.

Google please.

He followed him out !

He had that weapon on him, a sharpened "steel rod" a widely used weapon in TH.

Fear of his life? Look the photos of the killer, he is not a Thai mouse, can survive if another body is on him for a bit of time, if that was in that way.

Just read an article in the other paper. It didn't say that the band followed them out - quite the contrary. It didn't say he had the weapon on him. (Both of which may be true, for all I know).

Perhaps you read a different article?

Steele Joe,

offer the Thais to be their lawyer, I believe the brother and put you on my ignore list, I tired of you, sent you a PM with LINK.

The US man was by the way a well known business man.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/31/thailand-american-killed-karaoke/2606371/

"Bobby Ray Carter owned LED Cool Lights, an LED lighting manufacturers with offices in Dallas and China. He was a Dallas native and former executive with UPS, CBS DFW-TV said."

http://www.ledcoollights.com/

Given that I've already said that I'm inclined to believe they are guilty of at least manslaughter, I'd not be likely to defend them...

And if you are so childish as to be unable to tolerate it when someone points, out in a perfectly civil manner, flaws in your argument then it is no loss to no longer have a discussion with you.

By the way, the fact that the deceased was "a well known business man" is of little or o relevance at this point. It certainly doesn't make the Thais more or less at fault, nor indicate that he was or wasn't at fault in any way.

ALFREDO wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

As for the killer; I don't know if he followed him out (the report doesn't say that), if he had a weapon (the report doesn't say that), or if the weapon was used out of fear for his life (as he claims).

Read also News sources which cannot mentioned here and cannot Copy and Paste out from here, my posting just got delayed for that reason.

Google please.

He followed him out !

He had that weapon on him, a sharpened "steel rod" a widely used weapon in TH.

Fear of his life? Look the photos of the killer, he is not a Thai mouse, can survive if another body is on him for a bit of time, if that was in that way.

Just read an article in the other paper. It didn't say that the band followed them out - quite the contrary. It didn't say he had the weapon on him. (Both of which may be true, for all I know).

Perhaps you read a different article?

EDIT TO ADD: Just read the article - thanks for the link.

It does not say the band followed them out. It does not say the killer was already armed.

ALFREDO wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

As for the killer; I don't know if he followed him out (the report doesn't say that), if he had a weapon (the report doesn't say that), or if the weapon was used out of fear for his life (as he claims).

Read also News sources which cannot mentioned here and cannot Copy and Paste out from here, my posting just got delayed for that reason.

Google please.

He followed him out !

He had that weapon on him, a sharpened "steel rod" a widely used weapon in TH.

Fear of his life? Look the photos of the killer, he is not a Thai mouse, can survive if another body is on him for a bit of time, if that was in that way.

Look, I don't know what happened and I'm not interested in pretending I do or that we have enough verifiable information to make a judgement of who deserves how much blame. I have taken NO position on that and I'm not going to argue for or against any such position without that knowledge. I will however opine when I see people using less than logical or reasonable arguments for a position.

EDIT to Add: If I were obligated to make a judgement - which I thankfully am not - based on my decades of experience in Thailand and what has been reported, I'd be inclined to think that the Thais were guilty of manslaughter at the very least. That is a killing in the midst of a fight which they had an active role in and beyond mere self defense.

But I don't know that - and neither do you.

Thailand - Good food, bad police, bad traffic. Great if you are single, difficult if you have children.

...many of us would also object to the 'good food' myth..

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that no one does - to say the food is good (as many do) is not a "myth", it's an expression of an opinion.

transam wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

Salapoo wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

Salapoo wrote:

So unless there is evidence conflicting the side of the Thais he will probably cleared let off for self defense.

Which is roughly the same as it would be elsewhere, right?

The difference being the policing and judicial processes of said 'evidence' and investigations.... Given Thailand... no, not like any place else at all unless you count banana republics.

I refer only to your description and not to Thai law enforcement (for which I have very little regard - to say the least): if there is no evidence that it was anything other than self defense, then they should not be prosecuted and most likely wouldn't typically be in any western country.

So folk have a row and someone decides to use a weapon and it should not be heard in court in your opinion .

So the Brit who killed a marine should not be in court ?

Forgive me, I stated that badly. Rather than "prosecuted" perhaps I should have said "punished". In any case, IF it was a justifiable homicide and can be determined as such, or there is insufficient evidence to show that it isn't, I know that in the states such things don't always go to trial.

In any case, my point was that if there is no evidence of wrongdoing, then of course the Thais should not be punished - just as it would be elsewhere. I certainly never said or implied what you claim is my opinion. Not even close.

As for the killing of the Marine - that is an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

His injured brother, I believe, would not lie to him, if he was not there!

Why do you rule that out?

Besides, one needn't deliberately lie per se rather just tell a version that minimized any fault of your own and exaggerated the fault of others. Virtually everyone does that sometimes (consciously or not).

Because, I would not lie to my brother!

But whatever,

one had a weapon on him and the other one not and the killer used the weapon on an unarmed man!

The killer had not to follow the later dead man out of the Saloon, did not want to loose face?!

Remembers me to that case, from Phuket 2010, which has similarities, a Thai felt overpowered and reached for the knife and used it fatally!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/333944-german-tourist-stabbed-to-death-in-phuket/

The Outcome, as I read it in a News source which should be named here,

"PHUKET'S sea eagles man has been sentenced to 13 years and four months' jail for killing a German expat resident last year in a fit of road rage,"

Hate to disillusion you but just because you would not do something doesn't mean that no one else would.

As for the killer; I don't know if he followed him out (the report doesn't say that), if he had a weapon (the report doesn't say that), or if the weapon was used out of fear for his life (as he claims).

So unless there is evidence conflicting the side of the Thais he will probably cleared let off for self defense.

Which is roughly the same as it would be elsewhere, right?

The difference being the policing and judicial processes of said 'evidence' and investigations.... Given Thailand... no, not like any place else at all unless you count banana republics.

I refer only to your description and not to Thai law enforcement (for which I have very little regard - to say the least): if there is no evidence that it was anything other than self defense, then they should not be prosecuted and most likely wouldn't typically be in any western country.

Their motorbike helmet was more expensive, and is much better than mine. Their motorbike which isn't present is much better and more expensive than mine. Their MP3 is higher tech than mine so is taken out and placed in front of me. etc etc.

Hmmm...inferiority complex, you say? Pot vs Kettle?

So unless there is evidence conflicting the side of the Thais he will probably cleared let off for self defense.

Which is roughly the same as it would be elsewhere, right?

they can entaretain the other prison rats while they spend the next 40 years in the KOOK....they will be using the mouth organ....

An oft repeated but mostly inaccurate perception: Thai prisons are grim in some ways but there isn't a lot of sexual assault.